BTW I do have a nice Beech tree bonsai that is about four years old and it is
coming along really well. Nice above the soil roots and great trunk. but it as
you said I kept it outside in the weather. I am sorry for the personal attack
but experts need to be kind, helpful, and understanding if any of our hobbies
are to survive. After 40 years of keeping fish, plants, and now trees I find my
hobbies to be a never ending source of challenge, satisfaction, socialization,
learning, and those great big smiles that last for hours at a time. if that
were to stop then why bother?

Moon

Moon

That said, I'm sorry you lost your greenhouse, but I don't
believe that any amount of wishing will allow bald cypress to
thrive indoors. They may live for a while, but will decline
and
eventually die. Even trees that survive indoors (Serissa,
ficus,
etc.) do not really like it. Indoors is not the native
habitat
of any tree or shrub. Some can survive, most cannot. Some
die
almost immediately, others decline over a period of years.
The
result is the same.

A physiological fact of life (or death).

So what you are saying is that even though my tupelos and
mangroves and even my
umbrella plams (not trees) nearly need to be trimmed with a
chain saw they grow
so fast there is no way i can get my Bald cypress to grow
inside?

I think that "survive" was the key term, but . . . Yes.

Mangroves and whatever that umbrella palm is are "tropical"
trees. Bald cypress are NOT tropical, or even semi-tropical.

But . . . neither are tupelo. How long have you had the tupelos
growing inside? (I can't imagine that tupelo leaves reduce
enough to be attractive???). My swamp here at the farm is filled
with several species of Nyssa, and I have never even thought of
them as bonsai.

(And it would be a heckuva lot easier to carry on a conversation
if you didn't have that doctored e-mail addy.)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase
'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman

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Good Day to All,
Jim,

I have been watching the min/max temperature for
my area since February or so.It's averaging 90 deg.F
[ 32 deg.C ] by day and a little less than 75 deg.F
[25 deg.C or so] with spikes at over 90 for an hour
during the driest months.
[It will get colder around October.]

The dawn has shifted from 6.15 a.m to 5.45 a.m or
so and same for the evening.
Hottest part of the day was 12.00 noon,now 2.00p.m

There is normally a breeze with lulls now and then.
Dew fall is heavy some days and non-existent on others.
Humidity fell to 40/45 after 10.00 a.m slowly back up to
80 % in the late evening.As the rain is falling it's just before
90 % as there is a breeze.

If I were attempting to grow indoors,I would begin with
and average of the above,but I think the full sun would
have to be exchanged for bright heatless illumination
from all angles.Top,bottom and middle of the tree's
canopy,with a mirror for a stand[or base.]
A great science experiment.I am glad I don't have to do
this.

Sadly,I must also tell you that the swamp cypress loves
the tropics as well.Usually self induced dormancy and
aggressive in new growth.

It's pouring cats and dogs,been so for the week,but I
braved the elements,because your worth it and my tree
is still very green and healthy.It is about 23 years or so
old,out of Lafayette,Louisiana.
Khaimraj
[West Indies/Caribbean
The soggy lands]


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lewis
To:
Date: 12 July 2003 14:27
Subject: [IBC] Artificial lighting


snip
I think that "survive" was the key term, but . . . Yes.

Mangroves and whatever that umbrella palm is are "tropical"
trees. Bald cypress are NOT tropical, or even semi-tropical.

snip
Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase
'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman

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++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Sadly,I must also tell you that the swamp cypress loves
the tropics as well.Usually self induced dormancy and
aggressive in new growth.


Why sadly, Khaimraj ?

They _should_ like it down there . . . though, except for the
Montezuma cypress (which more and more taxonomists feel is NOT a
separate species, but a subspecies of T. distichum) it doesn't
naturally grow down there. Still it gets fresh air and REAL sun,
so it should do fine.

Indoors, it gets neither -- no matter how many artificial
substitutes one might try to give it.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase
'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman

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++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Montezuma cypress (which more and more taxonomists feel is NOT a
separate species, but a subspecies of T. distichum) it doesn't
naturally grow down there. Still it gets fresh air and REAL sun,
so it should do fine.

Indoors, it gets neither -- no matter how many artificial
substitutes one might try to give it.

I don't understand the desire some of this group seems to have to think that
plants only do well out doors. so many plants are grown indoors with artificial
everything and they grow so much better than indoors in almost scary. why the
predudice for out door growing?

Moon

(And it would be a heckuva lot easier to carry on a conversation
if you didn't have that doctored e-mail addy.)


What do you mean?

At 02:08 AM 7/13/03 +0000, Moontanman wrote:

I don't understand the desire some of this group seems to have to think that
plants only do well out doors. so many plants are grown indoors with
artificial
everything and they grow so much better than indoors in almost scary. why the
predudice for out door growing?

Moon


Tradition. We borrowed this sport from the Japanese and made it into
something else. It would be as if the Japanese tried to play baseball in
Samurai gear. The rules would have to change to accommodate the choice of
uniform. So if we take an outside tree and bring it indoors, it is not
quite bonsai because it breaks tradition. It might look like a bonsai and
you may love it. You may not be able to enjoy dwarfed trees any other way.

As I said before, do what brings you joy. Do not look for others to
approve your joy for surely you will lose it.

Kitsune Miko

Seascape
In a saucer
Feast for the eyes

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I don't understand the desire some of this group seems to have
to think that
plants only do well out doors. so many plants are grown indoors
with artificial
everything and they grow so much better than indoors in almost
scary. why the
predudice for out door growing?


It isn't prejudice. (Well, for me it is -- Except for temporary
display, I HATE trees in the house with me!
;-) But for most here it's not prejudice . . . it is the simple
fact that some species of trees will NOT grow indoors.

But as Kitsune says, if you wanna do it -- then do it! (But
common courtesy at least suggests that you might listen to folks
who have been growing trees -- in and out doors for a LONG time .
.. .nearly 30 years in my case. So . . . do it and don't worry
about whether we want to follow suit. Or not.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - "People,
when Columbus discovered this country, it was plum full of nuts
and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just
about all gone." -- Uncle Dave Macon, old-time musician

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************************************************** ******************************
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Moon: I, for one, am curious to see what you are talking about. Would you mind
taking a few photos of your "vivarium" plantings and post them on the IBC Virtual
Gallery? You can find it and directions on how to post at:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ag...bonsaiclub&bn=
Alan Walker, Lake Charles, LA, USA
http://LCBSBonsai.org http://bonsai-bci.com
================================
That said, I'm sorry you lost your greenhouse, but I don't
believe that any amount of wishing will allow bald cypress to
thrive indoors. They may live for a while, but will decline and
eventually die. Even trees that survive indoors (Serissa, ficus,
etc.) do not really like it. Indoors is not the native habitat
of any tree or shrub. Some can survive, most cannot. Some die
almost immediately, others decline over a period of years. The
result is the same. A physiological fact of life (or death).
==============
Moontanman wrote:
So what you are saying is that even though my tupelos and mangroves and even my
umbrella palms (not trees) nearly need to be trimmed with a chain saw they grow so
fast there is no way i can get my Bald cypress to grow inside? the mangrove trees
act like they would like to wrap around the metal halide bulb as do the umbrella
palms.
I do indeed provide a mostly enclosed environment for my vivariums (you really can't
call them aquariums) to promote moisture and so far only cattails and bald cypress
are really giving me a hard time.
I wish everyone could have seen my 125 gallon aquarium with 1 water tupelo, 3 bald
cypress, 1 mangrove, a patch of dwarf cattails, dwarf umbrella palms and many moses
ferns and bromeliads growing as epiphytes. Not to mention submerged plants water
lilies and a lotus. with a huge school of cardinal tetras, glass catfish, striped
African glass catfish, double trunked elephantnose fish, upside down catfish, blue
spotted sunfish, black banded sunfish, freshwater flounders, shrimp, dwarf crayfish,
clams and snails. even the local public aquarium people were impressed.
maybe i'll just cut a hole in the wall and mount the aquarium outside inside it's
own greenhouse... I could make the aquarium bigger and the display even better! The
water trees take up so much nutrients the fish absolutely glow with their natural
colors. Of course i may have to get a new wife.... surely there are women who like
fish and trees as much as i do! Just kidding but i do intend to solve this problem.
I'm just too old to stop now!
Moon

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I am sorry but i don't have a scanner or many photos for that matter. Photos
have just never been my thing. I do have a few of various experiments along
thos lines and i do plan to get a scanner at some point. so many people want
pics of my old greenhouse and the 3000 gallon aquarium i built about 20 years
ago I really feel compelled to get a scanner and dig out what pictures i do
have. At the time i never figured on the internet or any one wanting to see my
"oddness" but my neighbors. At one time they called me "marine land of van
buren st" I should have charged all the kids i had to give tours to. maybe i
could have rebult some of it. I will see what i can do.

Moon

I am sorry but i don't have a scanner or many photos for that
matter. Photos
have just never been my thing. I do have a few of various
experiments along
thos lines and i do plan to get a scanner at some point. so
many people want
pics of my old greenhouse and the 3000 gallon aquarium i built
about 20 years
ago I really feel compelled to get a scanner and dig out what
pictures i do
have. At the time i never figured on the internet or any one
wanting to see my
"oddness" but my neighbors. At one time they called me "marine
land of van
buren st" I should have charged all the kids i had to give
tours to. maybe i
could have rebult some of it. I will see what i can do.


You can get an inexpensive digital camera for the cost of a
scanner and find many more uses for it (IMHO).

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - "People,
when Columbus discovered this country, it was plum full of nuts
and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just
about all gone." -- Uncle Dave Macon, old-time musician

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

You can get an inexpensive digital camera for the cost of a
scanner and find many more uses for it (IMHO).


Not for me, I'm disabled from an industrial accedent and money for cameras in't
in the budget. Maybe someday.

Moon
remove nospam from e-mail to send to me, I grow trees in aquariums like bonsai.
I breed dwarf crayfish, great for planted community tanks. If you can get me a
shovelnose sturgeon fingerling (Scaphirhynchus platorynchus) no wild caught
please, contact me

Not for me, I'm disabled from an industrial accedent and money for cameras
in't
in the budget. Maybe someday.


Not much to take pictures oif now, all trees are in pots in ponds in my back
yard.

Moon

Just trying to help. Your post prompted more questions than
information. Sorry if I offended you. I guess the gist of what I was
trying to say was that by the time you figure out what it's going to
take to get the bald cypress to grow successfully indoors, you'll have
upset what's working for the rest of your trees. (maybe a Dupla
substrate heater?)

You have a nice day.

Bill Butler