Pines take much too long to air layer in the zone where you are and will not
be ready to sever when the Summer season is over or even this year. The
higher your altitude in Colorado, the shorter the growing season and the less
time you have to let an air layer fill the plastic or pot with roots. The good
news, however, is that this has been an exceptionally wet spring/early
summer here in Colorado, relatively speaking (we are semi-arid, after all). The
extra moisture in the soil bodes well for any specimens you can collect, as
long as you get enough roots. Try to collect small trees before the
buds/candles have fully elongated, though, as this is a good sign of when they have
begun growth. After the buds/candles are fully open, you will be cutting off
many of the newly grown roots when you dig it up.

If you don't think you can keep it alive or get it out of the ground or
rocks with most of it's roots, please don't bother trying to collect it. Don't
be responsible for killing an old tree just to "give it a try."

Best Regards,
Dan Avrin
"...really love your peaches, want to shake your tree."


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I believe it was Miss Piggy that said, Never eat
anything bigger than your head.

Collecting from the wild has similar connotations.
Can you take care of what you collect? Will it grow
well in your area? It is a little less traumatic than
collecting say a baby skunk, but you (in my book)
still have a responsibility to any living thing in
your care. I have been to Colorado. I looked, I
enjoyed, I left things were they were.

Kits

****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

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Kitsune Miko wrote:
I believe it was Miss Piggy that said, Never eat
anything bigger than your head.

Collecting from the wild has similar connotations.
Can you take care of what you collect? Will it grow
well in your area? It is a little less traumatic than
collecting say a baby skunk, but you (in my book)
still have a responsibility to any living thing in
your care. I have been to Colorado. I looked, I
enjoyed, I left things were they were.



And Dan said:

If you don't think you can keep it alive or get it out of
the ground or rocks with most of it's roots, please don't
bother trying to collect it. Don't be responsible for
killing an old tree just to "give it a try."

To which I add, and be certain you have permission to
collect from the owner of the land on which the tree is
growing, whether that owner be an individual, a business, a
local government, state government, or the federal government.

An aside: We'll probably never know what he decides.

Jim Lewis - - This economy is a wholly
owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord Nelson

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Or, just don't get caught! And if you do, pay the fine )

Jo


Von: Jim Lewis
Datum: 2005/06/06 Mo AM 01:37:34 CEST

To which I add, and be certain you have permission to
collect from the owner of the land on which the tree is
growing, whether that owner be an individual, a business, a
local government, state government, or the federal government.

An aside: We'll probably never know what he decides.

Jim Lewis - - This economy is a wholly
owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord Nelson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************

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wrote:
Or, just don't get caught! And if you do, pay the fine )

Jo


Are you REALLY encouraging someone to take a criminal
action? Is that what you teach your team?

Nice guy!

Just FYI, but if I were still managing the list, you'd now
be off it.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - IBC
list manager emeritus

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well, it's our land. We've got a few acres up here, and one of the fire
codes of the area is that there has to be a fifty-foot firebreak around
houses llike ours. Since the last owners were remiss in thier duties,
we have to have the treecutters in next week. I was planning on getting
some of the smaller sprouts (transport is an issue) not collecting some
of the more remarkable specimens i've noted on walks. I'm not usually
one to ignore good advice, but....they're going to be cut up anyways,
it's our land, and you can never know anything until you try.

I am just being realistic Jim! IMO it is the same as getting a parking ticket! Sometimes you take a chance and if you get caught you pay a fine. If it is private property then it is easy, you go to the owner and ask but when it comes to government owned property (not a protected area or plant) then going through the bureaucratic BS is more often than not, not worth the trouble! I bet there are loads on this list that have gone for a walk and saw a beauty and instead of going through all the channels have taken it home…. Just IMHO. Kick me off the list if you must but freedom of speech is supposed to be a right to all, or am I being too radical?

BTW, I guess in America you have such a “police state” that the fear of the authorities are deeply embedded in your sub-conscious.

PS: Coaching my or any other rugby team, you test the referee by bending/breaking the laws of the game and if the referee penalizes you for being off-side then you stop going off-side, same with many other laws the referee is supposed to look at and after a few minutes the team can then play to the referee and thus get an edge in the match! I am also a qualified referee and know that teams do this, that is why I am very strict at the start and after a few penalties they start playing to the laws.

Jo

Von: Jim Lewis

wrote:
Or, just don't get caught! And if you do, pay the fine )

Jo


Are you REALLY encouraging someone to take a criminal
action? Is that what you teach your team?

Nice guy!

Just FYI, but if I were still managing the list, you'd now
be off it.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - IBC
list manager emeritus


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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Yes, there are those rule breakers who start by
pulling the wings off a fly and escalate to wife
beating, but it's ok as long as they don't get caught.
One does not have to live in a police state to see
there are rights and wrongs. If you work with nature,
you should respect nature.

BLue Hippo indicatd he owned the land and that the
plants in question were to be gonners anyway. I think
he asked a responsible question in the beginning, what
could he collect that had a chance of living. He did
not ask to break the rules.

Would you then also break the rules and place an
infant out in the hot sun just becasue you could get
away with it, because it was yours? Where do you draw
the line at rule breaking? Only if you get caught?

Kits
--- Jo Trojer wrote:
I am just being realistic Jim! IMO it is the same
as getting a parking ticket! Sometimes you take a
chance and if you get caught you pay a fine. If it
is private property then it is easy, you go to the
owner and ask but when it comes to government owned
property (not a protected area or plant) then going
through the bureaucratic BS is more often than not,
not worth the trouble! I bet there are loads on this
list that have gone for a walk and saw a beauty and
instead of going through all the channels have taken
it home…. Just IMHO. Kick me off the list if you
must but freedom of speech is supposed to be a right
to all, or am I being too radical?

BTW, I guess in America you have such a “police
state” that the fear of the authorities are deeply
embedded in your sub-conscious.

PS: Coaching my or any other rugby team, you test
the referee by bending/breaking the laws of the game
and if the referee penalizes you for being off-side
then you stop going off-side, same with many other
laws the referee is supposed to look at and after a
few minutes the team can then play to the referee
and thus get an edge in the match! I am also a
qualified referee and know that teams do this, that
is why I am very strict at the start and after a few
penalties they start playing to the laws.

Jo

Von: Jim Lewis

wrote:
Or, just don't get caught! And if you do, pay
the fine )

Jo


Are you REALLY encouraging someone to take a
criminal
action? Is that what you teach your team?

Nice guy!

Just FYI, but if I were still managing the list,
you'd now
be off it.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL
- IBC
list manager emeritus



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++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin
Bailey++++

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http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++


****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

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************************************************** ******************************
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if it's government land it doesn't make it ok to take trees. There is a
Bonsai Artist I won't see simply because he feels its ok to take protect Junipers
from
public land. I feel ,fines are not stiff enough penalties , for damaging or
taking plants or animals
SteveW
Long Island NY

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That's the attitude!! If it's going to the shredder anyway, why not a
detour through a pot on your bench. Here's hoping it's a LOOOOONG
detour.

Have fun - jay

Jay Beckenbach - Melrose, FL - Zone 8b/9a -

-----Original Message-----
From: BlueHippo ]

well, it's our land. We've got a few acres up here, and one of the fire
codes of the area is that there has to be a fifty-foot firebreak around
houses llike ours. Since the last owners were remiss in thier duties,
we have to have the treecutters in next week. I was planning on getting
some of the smaller sprouts (transport is an issue) not collecting some
of the more remarkable specimens i've noted on walks. I'm not usually
one to ignore good advice, but....they're going to be cut up anyways,
it's our land, and you can never know anything until you try.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++