On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:10:00 -0500, Ignoramus22089
wrote:

:I used 1 tbsp per bush, spread around evenly with 1 ft radius.

I put mine in gallon jugs with water ahead of need. Then I spread around
the plants after watering.

On Mon, 26 May 2008 09:41:00 -0500, Ignoramus7406
wrote:

:Has anyone tried composting lawn grass?
:
:Maybe I should save up a pile of it from my lawnmower, and let it rot
:for a year or something?

I put just about anything green in my compost pile, lawn clippings,
leaves, whatever. Wet it occasionally, turn once in a while when I think
of it and summon the energy. If it's not completely decomposed when I
plant I mix with the planting soil anyway. The undecomposed material
will decompose eventually and gradually anyway with the moisture in the
soil and the natural bacteria and release nutrients to the plants.
That's my thinking. Plus it amends my naturally clay soil nicely.

On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:06:33 -0500, TomC wrote:

:2-3" layer around the plants; enough to keep weeds out and moisture in.
:Leave about 2" open around the plant stems so they don't rot and bugs
:won't have a place to hide and eat away at the stems.

I lost one tomato plant this year due to something(s) eating away at the
stem and had to go buy a replacement. Don't recall it happening before.
I hadn't mulched yet, either. I used to put collars around the seedlings
to retard such things, but this plant was well along (10-12" high) when
it happened and I was surprised.

Ignoramus22089 wrote in
:

I was a little turned off by the prices of fertilisers sold for
gardens (at home depot), but I have a bag of 10-10-10 fertilizer for
lawns, the sort that does not have any herbicides (ie, not a weed and
feed type, just feed).

Would you say that this is approproate for garden with tomatoes and
peppers and so on.

You should be able to find some cheap fertilizer that dissolves in water
at Home Depot or Walmart. I got a big box of 15-30-15 at Walmart for less
than $10.

I like to fix the fertilizer with equal parts pulverized lime to take care
of ph issues and prevent blossom end rot.

In article , Deuteros wrote:

Ignoramus22089 wrote in
:

I was a little turned off by the prices of fertilisers sold for
gardens (at home depot), but I have a bag of 10-10-10 fertilizer for
lawns, the sort that does not have any herbicides (ie, not a weed and
feed type, just feed).

Would you say that this is approproate for garden with tomatoes and
peppers and so on.

You should be able to find some cheap fertilizer that dissolves in water
at Home Depot or Walmart. I got a big box of 15-30-15 at Walmart for less
than $10.

I like to fix the fertilizer with equal parts pulverized lime to take care
of ph issues and prevent blossom end rot.

Get some fish emulsion and use it at full strength and throw your
10-10-10 away. If you can't do that, then use it with your fish emulsion
at a quarter strength. Chemical fertilizers kill soil organisms that
will feed your plants. If you grow soil, the soil will grow your plants.
--

Billy
Bush Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Billy wrote:

Get some fish emulsion and use it at full strength and throw your
10-10-10 away. If you can't do that, then use it with your fish emulsion
at a quarter strength. Chemical fertilizers kill soil organisms that
will feed your plants. If you grow soil, the soil will grow your plants.


I agree with your conclusion, mostly, but not how you get there.
Commercial balanced fertilizers are mostly made with urea, ammonium
phosphate, and potassium chloride. None of them are particularly
harmful to soil organisms *if used lightly*. OTOH, if you pour on the
ammonium sulfate to make your lawn look like a golf green, you will ruin
the soil.

When you first start feeding the soil, it will sometimes compete with
your plants for nutrients, especially nitrogen. Feeding the plants will
help. The problem is when you feed the plants while ignoring the soil.

Bob

In article ,
zxcvbob wrote:

Billy wrote:

Get some fish emulsion and use it at full strength and throw your
10-10-10 away. If you can't do that, then use it with your fish emulsion
at a quarter strength. Chemical fertilizers kill soil organisms that
will feed your plants. If you grow soil, the soil will grow your plants.


I agree with your conclusion, mostly, but not how you get there.
Commercial balanced fertilizers are mostly made with urea, ammonium
phosphate, and potassium chloride. None of them are particularly
harmful to soil organisms *if used lightly*. OTOH, if you pour on the
ammonium sulfate to make your lawn look like a golf green, you will ruin
the soil.

When you first start feeding the soil, it will sometimes compete with
your plants for nutrients, especially nitrogen. Feeding the plants will
help. The problem is when you feed the plants while ignoring the soil.

Bob

If used lightly (or strongly), salts of ammonia and nitrates won't
nurture the web of soil organisms whose dying populations feed the
plants through the breakdown of amino acids. I'm sure you will agree
that the soil organisms are better served through mulching, application
of rock phosphate, and application of either "green" or animal manure.
From my reading (I'm sure you will correct me if I get it wrong) of
"Teaming with Microbes", chemical fertilizer salts affect soil organisms
in the same manner as table salt does snails and slugs. In low
concentrations, they don't hurt but they don't help the soil. Fertilizer
salts do help plants (in a limited way with macro-nutrients) but you may
as well be growing hydroponicaly in that case and you will have reduced
the phytonutrients anthocyanins and flavonoids in your harvest.

So, where are the holes in my reasoning?

Hope your garden is doing well)
--

Billy
Bush Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
zxcvbob wrote:

Billy wrote:

Get some fish emulsion and use it at full strength and throw your
10-10-10 away. If you can't do that, then use it with your fish
emulsion
at a quarter strength. Chemical fertilizers kill soil organisms that
will feed your plants. If you grow soil, the soil will grow your
plants.


I agree with your conclusion, mostly, but not how you get there.
Commercial balanced fertilizers are mostly made with urea, ammonium
phosphate, and potassium chloride. None of them are particularly
harmful to soil organisms *if used lightly*. OTOH, if you pour on the
ammonium sulfate to make your lawn look like a golf green, you will ruin
the soil.

When you first start feeding the soil, it will sometimes compete with
your plants for nutrients, especially nitrogen. Feeding the plants will
help. The problem is when you feed the plants while ignoring the soil.

Bob

If used lightly (or strongly), salts of ammonia and nitrates won't
nurture the web of soil organisms whose dying populations feed the
plants through the breakdown of amino acids. I'm sure you will agree
that the soil organisms are better served through mulching, application
of rock phosphate, and application of either "green" or animal manure.
From my reading (I'm sure you will correct me if I get it wrong) of
"Teaming with Microbes", chemical fertilizer salts affect soil organisms
in the same manner as table salt does snails and slugs. In low
concentrations, they don't hurt but they don't help the soil. Fertilizer
salts do help plants (in a limited way with macro-nutrients) but you may
as well be growing hydroponicaly in that case and you will have reduced
the phytonutrients anthocyanins and flavonoids in your harvest.

either treat the soil as a gorwing medium and feed nutrients directly to the
plant or treat the soil as the source of nutrients and feed the soil.

rob

In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
zxcvbob wrote:

Billy wrote:

Get some fish emulsion and use it at full strength and throw your
10-10-10 away. If you can't do that, then use it with your fish
emulsion
at a quarter strength. Chemical fertilizers kill soil organisms that
will feed your plants. If you grow soil, the soil will grow your
plants.


I agree with your conclusion, mostly, but not how you get there.
Commercial balanced fertilizers are mostly made with urea, ammonium
phosphate, and potassium chloride. None of them are particularly
harmful to soil organisms *if used lightly*. OTOH, if you pour on the
ammonium sulfate to make your lawn look like a golf green, you will ruin
the soil.

When you first start feeding the soil, it will sometimes compete with
your plants for nutrients, especially nitrogen. Feeding the plants will
help. The problem is when you feed the plants while ignoring the soil.

Bob

If used lightly (or strongly), salts of ammonia and nitrates won't
nurture the web of soil organisms whose dying populations feed the
plants through the breakdown of amino acids. I'm sure you will agree
that the soil organisms are better served through mulching, application
of rock phosphate, and application of either "green" or animal manure.
From my reading (I'm sure you will correct me if I get it wrong) of
"Teaming with Microbes", chemical fertilizer salts affect soil organisms
in the same manner as table salt does snails and slugs. In low
concentrations, they don't hurt but they don't help the soil. Fertilizer
salts do help plants (in a limited way with macro-nutrients) but you may
as well be growing hydroponicaly in that case and you will have reduced
the phytonutrients anthocyanins and flavonoids in your harvest.

either treat the soil as a gorwing medium and feed nutrients directly to the
plant or treat the soil as the source of nutrients and feed the soil.

rob

But the results won't be equal. The later will be more nutritious and
and the former will attract more insect pests.
--

Billy
Bush Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

On Fri, 30 May 2008 18:18:24 -0700, Dan Musicant )
wrote:

:On Sun, 25 May 2008 23:52:37 -0500, Ignoramus22089
wrote:
:
::I was a little turned off by the prices of fertilisers sold for
::gardens (at home depot), but I have a bag of 10-10-10 fertilizer for
::lawns, the sort that does not have any herbicides (ie, not a weed and
::feed type, just feed).
::
::Would you say that this is approproate for garden with tomatoes and
:eppers and so on.
::
::Thanks
:
:I too was turned off by what I saw at Home Depot and bought nothing. I
:usually use a 5-10-5 or 5-10-10. Last few years I've used 15-30-15
:Miracle Grow, only 1/3rd as much. I'm looking around for alternatives
:now, but finding nothing I like. Used to be I could buy a 20 lb bag of
:5-10-5 for $8 or so in a local hardware store but I haven't been able to
:find anything like that anywhere. It boggles my mind, frankly.

I found an inexpensive source, being a 20 lb bag of 16-16-16 at Ace
Hardware. Brand is Shultz, and it includes micronutrients. They market
it as pretty much all purpose including vegetables (photo of tomato). I
figure it might be a little high on the N, but I think my tomatoes are a
bit N starved at the moment, anyway. I plan to use it very sparingly and
it will probably last me for a few years since I've determined to lean
on homemade compost very heavily. I figure with enough compost, very
little is needed in the way of commercial fertilizer (if any).

Dan

In article ,
wrote:

On Fri, 30 May 2008 18:18:24 -0700, Dan Musicant )
wrote:

:On Sun, 25 May 2008 23:52:37 -0500, Ignoramus22089
wrote:
:
::I was a little turned off by the prices of fertilisers sold for
::gardens (at home depot), but I have a bag of 10-10-10 fertilizer for
::lawns, the sort that does not have any herbicides (ie, not a weed and
::feed type, just feed).
::
::Would you say that this is approproate for garden with tomatoes and
:eppers and so on.
::
::Thanks
:
:I too was turned off by what I saw at Home Depot and bought nothing. I
:usually use a 5-10-5 or 5-10-10. Last few years I've used 15-30-15
:Miracle Grow, only 1/3rd as much. I'm looking around for alternatives
:now, but finding nothing I like. Used to be I could buy a 20 lb bag of
:5-10-5 for $8 or so in a local hardware store but I haven't been able to
:find anything like that anywhere. It boggles my mind, frankly.

I found an inexpensive source, being a 20 lb bag of 16-16-16 at Ace
Hardware. Brand is Shultz, and it includes micronutrients. They market
it as pretty much all purpose including vegetables (photo of tomato). I
figure it might be a little high on the N, but I think my tomatoes are a
bit N starved at the moment, anyway. I plan to use it very sparingly and
it will probably last me for a few years since I've determined to lean
on homemade compost very heavily. I figure with enough compost, very
little is needed in the way of commercial fertilizer (if any).

Dan

You may want to try to intersperse beans or peas among your
other crops or rotate them as a crop on different patches in
your garden. This will give you food and put nitrogen in the soil.
Additionally, you can avoid chemical fertilizers, which cannot help your
soil and risk damaging the micro flora and fauna that promote healthier
plants. Chemical nitrogen quickly accumulates in the leaves of
plants, which in turn attract plant pests to them.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Persephone wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 08:02:06 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 30 May 2008 18:18:24 -0700, Dan Musicant )
wrote:

:On Sun, 25 May 2008 23:52:37 -0500, Ignoramus22089
wrote:
:
::I was a little turned off by the prices of fertilisers sold for
::gardens (at home depot), but I have a bag of 10-10-10 fertilizer for
::lawns, the sort that does not have any herbicides (ie, not a weed and
::feed type, just feed).
::
::Would you say that this is approproate for garden with tomatoes and
:eppers and so on.
::
::Thanks
:
:I too was turned off by what I saw at Home Depot and bought nothing. I
:usually use a 5-10-5 or 5-10-10. Last few years I've used 15-30-15
:Miracle Grow, only 1/3rd as much. I'm looking around for alternatives
:now, but finding nothing I like. Used to be I could buy a 20 lb bag of
:5-10-5 for $8 or so in a local hardware store but I haven't been able to
:find anything like that anywhere. It boggles my mind, frankly.

I found an inexpensive source, being a 20 lb bag of 16-16-16 at Ace
Hardware. Brand is Shultz, and it includes micronutrients. They market
it as pretty much all purpose including vegetables (photo of tomato). I
figure it might be a little high on the N, but I think my tomatoes are a
bit N starved at the moment, anyway. I plan to use it very sparingly and
it will probably last me for a few years since I've determined to lean
on homemade compost very heavily. I figure with enough compost, very
little is needed in the way of commercial fertilizer (if any).

Dan
How many NG members are using worm castings, or liquid worm castings,
for tomatoes and everything else g?

They're supposed to be spectacular in improving the soil (which
according to organic gardeners, helps plants more than chemical
fertilizers). I'm just at the beginning of my program, so wondered
about others' experiences.

TIA


Last year I mulched my peppers with shredded office paper. The worms
loved it; I had to replace it several times. The dirt was almost
nothing but worm castings by the end of the year.

I'm gonna do the same thing this year if it ever stops raining.

Bob