Hello,

Id like to hear from you about my garden I put in. The neighbors are
apparently baffled by it. I'm not 100 % sure either . I will give you a
brief description and why I did this. And criticism will be greatly
appreciated. This is the first garden I've put in in about 10 years. I
gave up because I bought horse manure and the weeds from it overran my
garden year after year and I couldn't kill them off. Primarily morning
glories that choked my plants and made a jungle . I became motivated by
the No work garden book by Ruth Stout.

The garden is 30 by 16. Its tilled horse manure at least 15 years old. I
put 4 bales of hay on it a month ago. And spread it around . 3 lbs of
10-10-10 fertilizer and made 4 rows of garden fabric 4 feet wide. And laid
them with two inches spaces between them. And I have treated timbers
covering every edge of the fabric. So it wont move or blow away.

I pick up one side of the fabric , spread the hay aside. and put plants in
.. Then cut a hole in the fabric so the plants will fit through the fabric.
.. Wherever I want the plants at. Then I put the fabric back down and the
timbers to hold it.

It is a bit time consuming to do this. To get the plants in and the holes
cut in the right place. But weed control has been a major issue here.
Every year.

The fabric is for weed control. The hay is there to turn to mulch for next
year. And was my original plan for weed control. I didn't know it didn't
work on morning glories until I got Ruth Stouts later books. So I added
the fabric.

I bought two flats of plants

The Rows are east to west.

Row 1 is north.

Row 1 has 36 corn plants about 1 foot apart in three rows. And 3 tomato
plants 3 foot apart centered.

Row 2 has 10 tomato plants about 3 foot apart

On row 3. I cut the fabric lengthwise down the middle and put in 6 eggplants
, 2 foot apart. And four pepper plants about 2 foot apart.

Outside the fabric rows . Far south. In the soil I put in about 40 onion
sets. And I have a 2 foot section about 25 feet long left over.

And the 2 inch spaces between the rows for other plants. I'm not sure
what to put in there but I'm out of plants. I have Beet , broccoli, and
carrot seeds I could put in there. I've got sugar, snow peas and provider
bean seeds too.

The rest of the flats. and the partial sun items lettuce, celery, more
onion sets I put in another small rough soil plot by the house as it gets
partial sun.

I did the fabric technique three years in a row and it works pretty good.
But not with the hay under it. I've not ever used hay before. This is my
main concern. Will the hay do something bad sitting there all year under
the garden fabric. Or am I ok.

Id really like to have a continuous mulch garden and put on 6 inches of hay
every fall. And let it sit and compact through the winter.

And I was going to just cover the plot for the year and kill everything off
and start next year.

But I came up with this idea.

I haven't left much out.

Anything wrong with what I did.

Thanks

Diesel.

None4U wrote:
Hello,

Id like to hear from you about my garden I put in. The neighbors are
apparently baffled by it. I'm not 100 % sure either . I will give
you a brief description and why I did this. And criticism will be
greatly appreciated. This is the first garden I've put in in about
10 years. I gave up because I bought horse manure and the weeds from
it overran my garden year after year and I couldn't kill them off.
Primarily morning glories that choked my plants and made a jungle . I
became motivated by the No work garden book by Ruth Stout.

The garden is 30 by 16.

Since you go on to use inches this is probably in feet. Perhaps you should
recall that the USA is about the only country that still uses such primitive
measures. I thought it was because they have 12 fingers and toes but
apparently polydactyly isn't so common so there is some other reason.


Its tilled horse manure at least 15 years old.

It is a wonder there is anything left after that long. It must be chilly
around there.

I put 4 bales of hay on it a month ago. And spread it around .
3 lbs of 10-10-10 fertilizer and made 4 rows of garden fabric 4 feet
wide. And laid them with two inches spaces between them. And I
have treated timbers covering every edge of the fabric. So it wont
move or blow away.

I take it this fabric is porous?

So where do you walk? In the 2in slot? You should leave a path for you and
your barrow otherwise you will compact the soil.


I pick up one side of the fabric , spread the hay aside. and put
plants in . Then cut a hole in the fabric so the plants will fit
through the fabric. . Wherever I want the plants at. Then I put the
fabric back down and the timbers to hold it.

It is a bit time consuming to do this. To get the plants in and the
holes cut in the right place. But weed control has been a major
issue here. Every year.

The fabric is for weed control. The hay is there to turn to mulch for
next year. And was my original plan for weed control. I didn't know
it didn't work on morning glories until I got Ruth Stouts later
books. So I added the fabric.

I bought two flats of plants

The Rows are east to west.

Not ideal. North-south is better. The sunward sides of the E-W rows will
get much more sun than the pole side. If you run them N-S both sides get
the same, of course in the antipodes we run them S-N.


Row 1 is north.

Row 1 has 36 corn plants about 1 foot apart in three rows. And 3
tomato plants 3 foot apart centered.


Is this sunward or poleward? I am guessing poleward so if the tall stuff is
at that end it is OK.


Row 2 has 10 tomato plants about 3 foot apart

On row 3. I cut the fabric lengthwise down the middle and put in 6
eggplants , 2 foot apart. And four pepper plants about 2 foot apart.

Outside the fabric rows . Far south. In the soil I put in about 40
onion sets. And I have a 2 foot section about 25 feet long left over.

And the 2 inch spaces between the rows for other plants. I'm not
sure what to put in there but I'm out of plants. I have Beet ,
broccoli, and carrot seeds I could put in there. I've got sugar,
snow peas and provider bean seeds too.

The rest of the flats. and the partial sun items lettuce, celery,
more onion sets I put in another small rough soil plot by the house
as it gets partial sun.

I don't know your climate so I am not sure about planting onions, peas and
broccoli with the summer veges. I would grow these through winter but my
summer is very hot and my winter is cool but does not have snow or ice.
Somebody who is more familiar with your region would advise better.


I did the fabric technique three years in a row and it works pretty
good. But not with the hay under it. I've not ever used hay before. This
is my main concern. Will the hay do something bad sitting there
all year under the garden fabric. Or am I ok.


If the fabric allows air and water to penetrate there shouldn't be a
problem.

Id really like to have a continuous mulch garden and put on 6 inches
of hay every fall. And let it sit and compact through the winter.

And I was going to just cover the plot for the year and kill
everything off and start next year.

But I came up with this idea.

I haven't left much out.

Anything wrong with what I did.

Thanks

Diesel.

I don't see anything really bad about what you have done, there are a couple
of areas to improve. It might have been quicker and cheaper to let all the
weeds come up, nuke them and then use mulch for weed supression but since
you have bought the fabric you may as well use it.

I am dying to know what the neighbours said.

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

None4U wrote:
Hello,

Id like to hear from you about my garden I put in. The neighbors are
apparently baffled by it. I'm not 100 % sure either . I will give
you a brief description and why I did this. And criticism will be
greatly appreciated. This is the first garden I've put in in about
10 years. I gave up because I bought horse manure and the weeds from
it overran my garden year after year and I couldn't kill them off.
Primarily morning glories that choked my plants and made a jungle . I
became motivated by the No work garden book by Ruth Stout.

The garden is 30 by 16.

Since you go on to use inches this is probably in feet. Perhaps you should
recall that the USA is about the only country that still uses such primitive
measures. I thought it was because they have 12 fingers and toes but
apparently polydactyly isn't so common so there is some other reason.


Its tilled horse manure at least 15 years old.

It is a wonder there is anything left after that long. It must be chilly
around there.

I put 4 bales of hay on it a month ago. And spread it around .
3 lbs of 10-10-10 fertilizer and made 4 rows of garden fabric 4 feet
wide. And laid them with two inches spaces between them. And I
have treated timbers covering every edge of the fabric. So it wont
move or blow away.

I take it this fabric is porous?

So where do you walk? In the 2in slot? You should leave a path for you and
your barrow otherwise you will compact the soil.


I pick up one side of the fabric , spread the hay aside. and put
plants in . Then cut a hole in the fabric so the plants will fit
through the fabric. . Wherever I want the plants at. Then I put the
fabric back down and the timbers to hold it.

It is a bit time consuming to do this. To get the plants in and the
holes cut in the right place. But weed control has been a major
issue here. Every year.

The fabric is for weed control. The hay is there to turn to mulch for
next year. And was my original plan for weed control. I didn't know
it didn't work on morning glories until I got Ruth Stouts later
books. So I added the fabric.

I bought two flats of plants

The Rows are east to west.

Not ideal. North-south is better. The sunward sides of the E-W rows will
get much more sun than the pole side. If you run them N-S both sides get
the same, of course in the antipodes we run them S-N.


Row 1 is north.

Row 1 has 36 corn plants about 1 foot apart in three rows. And 3
tomato plants 3 foot apart centered.


Is this sunward or poleward? I am guessing poleward so if the tall stuff is
at that end it is OK.


Row 2 has 10 tomato plants about 3 foot apart

On row 3. I cut the fabric lengthwise down the middle and put in 6
eggplants , 2 foot apart. And four pepper plants about 2 foot apart.

Outside the fabric rows . Far south. In the soil I put in about 40
onion sets. And I have a 2 foot section about 25 feet long left over.

And the 2 inch spaces between the rows for other plants. I'm not
sure what to put in there but I'm out of plants. I have Beet ,
broccoli, and carrot seeds I could put in there. I've got sugar,
snow peas and provider bean seeds too.

The rest of the flats. and the partial sun items lettuce, celery,
more onion sets I put in another small rough soil plot by the house
as it gets partial sun.

I don't know your climate so I am not sure about planting onions, peas and
broccoli with the summer veges. I would grow these through winter but my
summer is very hot and my winter is cool but does not have snow or ice.
Somebody who is more familiar with your region would advise better.


I did the fabric technique three years in a row and it works pretty
good. But not with the hay under it. I've not ever used hay before. This
is my main concern. Will the hay do something bad sitting there
all year under the garden fabric. Or am I ok.


If the fabric allows air and water to penetrate there shouldn't be a
problem.

Id really like to have a continuous mulch garden and put on 6 inches
of hay every fall. And let it sit and compact through the winter.

And I was going to just cover the plot for the year and kill
everything off and start next year.

But I came up with this idea.

I haven't left much out.

Anything wrong with what I did.

Thanks

Diesel.

I don't see anything really bad about what you have done, there are a couple
of areas to improve. It might have been quicker and cheaper to let all the
weeds come up, nuke them and then use mulch for weed supression but since
you have bought the fabric you may as well use it.

I am dying to know what the neighbours said.

David

What sticks out to me is the 4 bales of straw which have a carbon to
nitrogen ratio of 50 to 100. Four bales probably weigh about 240 lbs
(109 kg) probably need a pound of 10-X-X to give a C/N ratio of 25, to
keep the microbes from sucking up all the available N in consuming the
straw's C. This disregards any N that may be in the 15 year old horse
manure. You could also use 30 gal. of fish emulsion, or 4 lbs chicken
manure, or 7 lbs of horse manure.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

None4U wrote:
Hello,

Id like to hear from you about my garden I put in. The neighbors are
apparently baffled by it. I'm not 100 % sure either . I will give
you a brief description and why I did this. And criticism will be
greatly appreciated. This is the first garden I've put in in about
10 years. I gave up because I bought horse manure and the weeds from
it overran my garden year after year and I couldn't kill them off.
Primarily morning glories that choked my plants and made a jungle . I
became motivated by the No work garden book by Ruth Stout.

The garden is 30 by 16.

Feet.

Since you go on to use inches this is probably in feet. Perhaps you
should
recall that the USA is about the only country that still uses such
primitive
measures. I thought it was because they have 12 fingers and toes but
apparently polydactyly isn't so common so there is some other reason.

The US government has a vested interest to keep people stupid.



Its tilled horse manure at least 15 years old.

It is a wonder there is anything left after that long. It must be chilly
around there.

I put 4 bales of hay on it a month ago. And spread it around .
3 lbs of 10-10-10 fertilizer and made 4 rows of garden fabric 4 feet
wide. And laid them with two inches spaces between them. And I
have treated timbers covering every edge of the fabric. So it wont
move or blow away.

I take it this fabric is porous?

Yup.

So where do you walk? In the 2in slot? You should leave a path for you
and
your barrow otherwise you will compact the soil.

The fabric is 4 feet wide. Except for the corn the plants are in the
middle. Theres four feet between the rows. You just walk on the fabric



I pick up one side of the fabric , spread the hay aside. and put
plants in . Then cut a hole in the fabric so the plants will fit
through the fabric. . Wherever I want the plants at. Then I put the
fabric back down and the timbers to hold it.

It is a bit time consuming to do this. To get the plants in and the
holes cut in the right place. But weed control has been a major
issue here. Every year.

The fabric is for weed control. The hay is there to turn to mulch for
next year. And was my original plan for weed control. I didn't know
it didn't work on morning glories until I got Ruth Stouts later
books. So I added the fabric.

I bought two flats of plants

The Rows are east to west.

Not ideal. North-south is better. The sunward sides of the E-W rows
will
get much more sun than the pole side. If you run them N-S both sides get
the same, of course in the antipodes we run them S-N.

Oh ,


Row 1 is north.

Row 1 has 36 corn plants about 1 foot apart in three rows. And 3
tomato plants 3 foot apart centered.


Is this sunward or poleward? I am guessing poleward so if the tall stuff
is
at that end it is OK.


Sunward, and the tall stuff is north.


Row 2 has 10 tomato plants about 3 foot apart

On row 3. I cut the fabric lengthwise down the middle and put in 6
eggplants , 2 foot apart. And four pepper plants about 2 foot apart.

Outside the fabric rows . Far south. In the soil I put in about 40
onion sets. And I have a 2 foot section about 25 feet long left over.

And the 2 inch spaces between the rows for other plants. I'm not
sure what to put in there but I'm out of plants. I have Beet ,
broccoli, and carrot seeds I could put in there. I've got sugar,
snow peas and provider bean seeds too.

The rest of the flats. and the partial sun items lettuce, celery,
more onion sets I put in another small rough soil plot by the house
as it gets partial sun.

I don't know your climate so I am not sure about planting onions, peas
and
broccoli with the summer veges.


Ohio, growing season is May to Oct. Snow is in Dec to April. Were
just past frost risk now.

I would grow these through winter but my
summer is very hot and my winter is cool but does not have snow or ice.
Somebody who is more familiar with your region would advise better.

The ground and Everything freezes . Im not familiar with any winter
gardening techniques here. Everyone plows .



I did the fabric technique three years in a row and it works pretty
good. But not with the hay under it. I've not ever used hay before.
This
is my main concern. Will the hay do something bad sitting there
all year under the garden fabric. Or am I ok.


If the fabric allows air and water to penetrate there shouldn't be a
problem.


It does

Id really like to have a continuous mulch garden and put on 6 inches
of hay every fall. And let it sit and compact through the winter.

And I was going to just cover the plot for the year and kill
everything off and start next year.

But I came up with this idea.

I haven't left much out.

Anything wrong with what I did.

Thanks

Diesel.

I don't see anything really bad about what you have done, there are a
couple
of areas to improve. It might have been quicker and cheaper to let all
the
weeds come up, nuke them and then use mulch for weed supression but since
you have bought the fabric you may as well use it.

I am dying to know what the neighbours said.

The neighbors said it looked like crap and wont grow anything through the
hay. With the hay laying around. It looks pretty nice now with the fabric
on it.



David

What sticks out to me is the 4 bales of straw which have a carbon to
nitrogen ratio of 50 to 100. Four bales probably weigh about 240 lbs
(109 kg) probably need a pound of 10-X-X to give a C/N ratio of 25, to
keep the microbes from sucking up all the available N in consuming the
straw's C. This disregards any N that may be in the 15 year old horse
manure. You could also use 30 gal. of fish emulsion, or 4 lbs chicken
manure, or 7 lbs of horse manure.



Before I put the fabric on it. I put 2 lbs of 10-10-10 on it. Now that
you mentioned fish emulsion. I have a gallon of concentrated fish emulsion
with no use. Im going to put that on there to get rid of it. The hay was
240 lbs. The fabric does flow water and air.

Can I keep putting hay on it every fall for mulch. And get good soil after
a couple years.




--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

"None4U" wrote in message
et...
Hello,

Id like to hear from you about my garden I put in. The neighbors are
apparently baffled by it.

Who gives a rat's posterior about the neighbours? It's your garden and you
created it for yourself, not them.

I did the fabric technique three years in a row and it works pretty good.
But not with the hay under it. I've not ever used hay before. This is my
main concern. Will the hay do something bad sitting there all year under
the garden fabric. Or am I ok.

I can't imagine the hay would do anything worse than insulating your soil so
it will not warm up early in Spring and will stay a bit warmer in Autumn.
But then I expect it will just breakdown anyway and do so fairly quickly if
you have healthy soil with a good earthworm population.

Id really like to have a continuous mulch garden and put on 6 inches of
hay every fall. And let it sit and compact through the winter.

And I was going to just cover the plot for the year and kill everything
off and start next year.

But I came up with this idea.

I haven't left much out.

Anything wrong with what I did.

Nope.

"None4U" wrote in message

The neighbors said it looked like crap and wont grow anything through the
hay. With the hay laying around. It looks pretty nice now with the
fabric on it.

Just smile sweetly at them and ignore them.

Can I keep putting hay on it every fall for mulch. And get good soil
after a couple years.

Yes. Read up on feeding earth worms and how to build up the number of
earthworms. What is best for earthworms, is best for your soil.

In article ,
"None4U" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

None4U wrote:
Hello,

Id like to hear from you about my garden I put in. The neighbors are
apparently baffled by it. I'm not 100 % sure either . I will give
you a brief description and why I did this. And criticism will be
greatly appreciated. This is the first garden I've put in in about
10 years. I gave up because I bought horse manure and the weeds from
it overran my garden year after year and I couldn't kill them off.
Primarily morning glories that choked my plants and made a jungle . I
became motivated by the No work garden book by Ruth Stout.

The garden is 30 by 16.

Feet.

Since you go on to use inches this is probably in feet. Perhaps you
should
recall that the USA is about the only country that still uses such
primitive
measures. I thought it was because they have 12 fingers and toes but
apparently polydactyly isn't so common so there is some other reason.

The US government has a vested interest to keep people stupid.



Its tilled horse manure at least 15 years old.

It is a wonder there is anything left after that long. It must be chilly
around there.

I put 4 bales of hay on it a month ago. And spread it around .
3 lbs of 10-10-10 fertilizer and made 4 rows of garden fabric 4 feet
wide. And laid them with two inches spaces between them. And I
have treated timbers covering every edge of the fabric. So it wont
move or blow away.

I take it this fabric is porous?

Yup.

So where do you walk? In the 2in slot? You should leave a path for you
and
your barrow otherwise you will compact the soil.

The fabric is 4 feet wide. Except for the corn the plants are in the
middle. Theres four feet between the rows. You just walk on the fabric



I pick up one side of the fabric , spread the hay aside. and put
plants in . Then cut a hole in the fabric so the plants will fit
through the fabric. . Wherever I want the plants at. Then I put the
fabric back down and the timbers to hold it.

It is a bit time consuming to do this. To get the plants in and the
holes cut in the right place. But weed control has been a major
issue here. Every year.

The fabric is for weed control. The hay is there to turn to mulch for
next year. And was my original plan for weed control. I didn't know
it didn't work on morning glories until I got Ruth Stouts later
books. So I added the fabric.

I bought two flats of plants

The Rows are east to west.

Not ideal. North-south is better. The sunward sides of the E-W rows
will
get much more sun than the pole side. If you run them N-S both sides get
the same, of course in the antipodes we run them S-N.

Oh ,


Row 1 is north.

Row 1 has 36 corn plants about 1 foot apart in three rows. And 3
tomato plants 3 foot apart centered.


Is this sunward or poleward? I am guessing poleward so if the tall stuff
is
at that end it is OK.


Sunward, and the tall stuff is north.


Row 2 has 10 tomato plants about 3 foot apart

On row 3. I cut the fabric lengthwise down the middle and put in 6
eggplants , 2 foot apart. And four pepper plants about 2 foot apart.

Outside the fabric rows . Far south. In the soil I put in about 40
onion sets. And I have a 2 foot section about 25 feet long left over.

And the 2 inch spaces between the rows for other plants. I'm not
sure what to put in there but I'm out of plants. I have Beet ,
broccoli, and carrot seeds I could put in there. I've got sugar,
snow peas and provider bean seeds too.

The rest of the flats. and the partial sun items lettuce, celery,
more onion sets I put in another small rough soil plot by the house
as it gets partial sun.

I don't know your climate so I am not sure about planting onions, peas
and
broccoli with the summer veges.


Ohio, growing season is May to Oct. Snow is in Dec to April. Were
just past frost risk now.

I would grow these through winter but my
summer is very hot and my winter is cool but does not have snow or ice.
Somebody who is more familiar with your region would advise better.

The ground and Everything freezes . Im not familiar with any winter
gardening techniques here. Everyone plows .



I did the fabric technique three years in a row and it works pretty
good. But not with the hay under it. I've not ever used hay before.
This
is my main concern. Will the hay do something bad sitting there
all year under the garden fabric. Or am I ok.


If the fabric allows air and water to penetrate there shouldn't be a
problem.


It does

Id really like to have a continuous mulch garden and put on 6 inches
of hay every fall. And let it sit and compact through the winter.

And I was going to just cover the plot for the year and kill
everything off and start next year.

But I came up with this idea.

I haven't left much out.

Anything wrong with what I did.

Thanks

Diesel.

I don't see anything really bad about what you have done, there are a
couple
of areas to improve. It might have been quicker and cheaper to let all
the
weeds come up, nuke them and then use mulch for weed supression but since
you have bought the fabric you may as well use it.

I am dying to know what the neighbours said.

The neighbors said it looked like crap and wont grow anything through the
hay. With the hay laying around. It looks pretty nice now with the fabric
on it.



David

What sticks out to me is the 4 bales of straw which have a carbon to
nitrogen ratio of 50 to 100. Four bales probably weigh about 240 lbs
(109 kg) probably need a pound of 10-X-X to give a C/N ratio of 25, to
keep the microbes from sucking up all the available N in consuming the
straw's C. This disregards any N that may be in the 15 year old horse
manure. You could also use 30 gal. of fish emulsion, or 4 lbs chicken
manure, or 7 lbs of horse manure.



Before I put the fabric on it. I put 2 lbs of 10-10-10 on it. Now that
you mentioned fish emulsion. I have a gallon of concentrated fish emulsion
with no use. Im going to put that on there to get rid of it. The hay was
240 lbs. The fabric does flow water and air.

Can I keep putting hay on it every fall for mulch. And get good soil after
a couple years.

Yeah, but I don't know why you are using the fabric cover. Normally, you
would put down your amendments (manure, rock phosphate, wood ash, small
chunks of charcoal from fireplaces or BBQs), cover with newspaper or
cardboard to suppress weeds, and cover all with mulch. After a couple of
weeks, poke holes in the layering, down into the dirt and plant. The
mulch and paper will suppress the weeds, and retain the moisture. The
manure, and the bi-monthly feedings with fish emulsion will allow the
microbes to consume the mulch, and the life cycles of the soil microbes
will feed and nourish your plants and make topsoil.

See if you can't get the following books from your library to further
explain what is going on:

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1

Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale Permaculture
(Paperback)
by Toby Hemenway
http://www.amazon.com/Gaias-Garden-S...ulture/dp/1603
580298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271266976&sr=1-1
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

None4U wrote:

So where do you walk? In the 2in slot? You should leave a path
for you and
your barrow otherwise you will compact the soil.

The fabric is 4 feet wide. Except for the corn the plants are in
the middle. Theres four feet between the rows. You just walk on the
fabric

Making paths would be better you will compact the soil under the fabric.
Tomato plants in the middle of a 4ft bed each 3 ft apart is rather generous
spacing. You can fit more in, you could (for example) zig-zag them up the
bed so they are still 3ft apart but every 2ft or so along the bed, once your
soil is getting better you can go closer still. There is no rule that says
you need neat rows.


David

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"None4U" wrote in message

The neighbors said it looked like crap and wont grow anything through the
hay. With the hay laying around. It looks pretty nice now with the
fabric on it.

Just smile sweetly at them and ignore them.

Can I keep putting hay on it every fall for mulch. And get good soil
after a couple years.

Yes. Read up on feeding earth worms and how to build up the number of
earthworms. What is best for earthworms, is best for your soil.

Amen
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

"None4U" wrote

| Id really like to have a continuous mulch garden and put on 6 inches of
hay
| every fall. And let it sit and compact through the winter.
|
| And I was going to just cover the plot for the year and kill everything
off
| and start next year.

Without the weed suppressor fabric you might be screwed cuz hay is generally
full of weed and grass seeds. I'd be using straw instead, then the worst
you'd probably get would be some wheat or whatever made the straw.

My personal trick to get a plot cleared for the following year is to use
discarded carpet from a dumpster behind a carpet store. Every time they
recarpet a home, that's where the old carpet goes. It's old enough usually
that it no longer has chemicals in it. Water gets through, light and weeds
don't. If you can leave it for a full year, there won't be any plants left
alive under it. Covered from early fall to late spring might be enough if
you don't have bermuda grass. You can cover the carpet with wood chips if
it's unsightly.

In spring, just sweep off and roll up the carpet, hoe up the plot, add soil
amendments (I only add to the soil in the rows or mounds where the vegies
will go, not the entire plot), plant and mulch. No need for weed fabric.

In article ,
"Pat" wrote:

"None4U" wrote

| Id really like to have a continuous mulch garden and put on 6 inches of
hay
| every fall. And let it sit and compact through the winter.
|
| And I was going to just cover the plot for the year and kill everything
off
| and start next year.

Without the weed suppressor fabric you might be screwed cuz hay is generally
full of weed and grass seeds. I'd be using straw instead, then the worst
you'd probably get would be some wheat or whatever made the straw.
You can also mulch with grass clippings, and leaves.

My personal trick to get a plot cleared for the following year is to use
discarded carpet from a dumpster behind a carpet store. Every time they
recarpet a home, that's where the old carpet goes. It's old enough usually
that it no longer has chemicals in it. Water gets through, light and weeds
don't. If you can leave it for a full year, there won't be any plants left
alive under it. Covered from early fall to late spring might be enough if
you don't have bermuda grass. You can cover the carpet with wood chips if
it's unsightly.

Carpet doesn't feed soil organisms.


In spring, just sweep off and roll up the carpet, hoe up the plot, add soil
amendments (I only add to the soil in the rows or mounds where the vegies
will go, not the entire plot), plant and mulch. No need for weed fabric.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Pat" wrote:

"None4U" wrote

| Id really like to have a continuous mulch garden and put on 6 inches of
hay
| every fall. And let it sit and compact through the winter.
|
| And I was going to just cover the plot for the year and kill everything
off
| and start next year.

Without the weed suppressor fabric you might be screwed cuz hay is
generally
full of weed and grass seeds. I'd be using straw instead, then the worst
you'd probably get would be some wheat or whatever made the straw.
You can also mulch with grass clippings, and leaves.

My personal trick to get a plot cleared for the following year is to use
discarded carpet from a dumpster behind a carpet store. Every time they
recarpet a home, that's where the old carpet goes. It's old enough
usually
that it no longer has chemicals in it. Water gets through, light and
weeds
don't. If you can leave it for a full year, there won't be any plants
left
alive under it. Covered from early fall to late spring might be enough if
you don't have bermuda grass. You can cover the carpet with wood chips if
it's unsightly.

Carpet doesn't feed soil organisms.


In spring, just sweep off and roll up the carpet, hoe up the plot, add
soil
amendments (I only add to the soil in the rows or mounds where the vegies
will go, not the entire plot), plant and mulch. No need for weed fabric.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html




Diesel wrote.
Thank You everyone. I appreciate the in put. I'm going to leave
everything as is. Its been cold here two days but the plants are looking
much better in the ground. They're at least standing up. The lettuce looks
better too. They were all droopy. and root bound. I'm gonna switch to
straw. I got the hay for free so I took it.

Thanks

Diesel

I would love to reply to your post, but alas...
I can not read, much less reply to any post involving a reply from "billy"
I'm not trying to be caustic, but...talk about someone that has
(apparently..at least to me) no life except on this NG.
I will read any new post, but if there is a reply from "him", I will read no
further. I have rarely seen a group with a poster who is so full of
himself. On one hand it's funny, on the other it's annoying. It makes me
reluctant to check the group...and I hate that. Not trying to rant...I'm
just saying..............


"None4U" wrote in message
et...
Hello,

Id like to hear from you about my garden I put in. The neighbors are
apparently baffled by it. I'm not 100 % sure either . I will give you a
brief description and why I did this. And criticism will be greatly
appreciated. This is the first garden I've put in in about 10 years. I
gave up because I bought horse manure and the weeds from it overran my
garden year after year and I couldn't kill them off. Primarily morning
glories that choked my plants and made a jungle . I became motivated by
the No work garden book by Ruth Stout.

The garden is 30 by 16. Its tilled horse manure at least 15 years old.
I put 4 bales of hay on it a month ago. And spread it around . 3 lbs of
10-10-10 fertilizer and made 4 rows of garden fabric 4 feet wide. And
laid them with two inches spaces between them. And I have treated
timbers covering every edge of the fabric. So it wont move or blow away.

I pick up one side of the fabric , spread the hay aside. and put plants
in . Then cut a hole in the fabric so the plants will fit through the
fabric. . Wherever I want the plants at. Then I put the fabric back down
and the timbers to hold it.

It is a bit time consuming to do this. To get the plants in and the holes
cut in the right place. But weed control has been a major issue here.
Every year.

The fabric is for weed control. The hay is there to turn to mulch for next
year. And was my original plan for weed control. I didn't know it didn't
work on morning glories until I got Ruth Stouts later books. So I added
the fabric.

I bought two flats of plants

The Rows are east to west.

Row 1 is north.

Row 1 has 36 corn plants about 1 foot apart in three rows. And 3 tomato
plants 3 foot apart centered.

Row 2 has 10 tomato plants about 3 foot apart

On row 3. I cut the fabric lengthwise down the middle and put in 6
eggplants , 2 foot apart. And four pepper plants about 2 foot apart.

Outside the fabric rows . Far south. In the soil I put in about 40 onion
sets. And I have a 2 foot section about 25 feet long left over.

And the 2 inch spaces between the rows for other plants. I'm not sure
what to put in there but I'm out of plants. I have Beet , broccoli, and
carrot seeds I could put in there. I've got sugar, snow peas and provider
bean seeds too.

The rest of the flats. and the partial sun items lettuce, celery, more
onion sets I put in another small rough soil plot by the house as it gets
partial sun.

I did the fabric technique three years in a row and it works pretty good.
But not with the hay under it. I've not ever used hay before. This is my
main concern. Will the hay do something bad sitting there all year under
the garden fabric. Or am I ok.

Id really like to have a continuous mulch garden and put on 6 inches of
hay every fall. And let it sit and compact through the winter.

And I was going to just cover the plot for the year and kill everything
off and start next year.

But I came up with this idea.

I haven't left much out.

Anything wrong with what I did.

Thanks

Diesel.

In article ,
"blah, blah, blah..." wrote:

I would love to reply to your post, but alas...
I can not read, much less reply to any post involving a reply from "billy"
I'm not trying to be caustic, but...talk about someone that has
(apparently..at least to me) no life except on this NG.
I will read any new post, but if there is a reply from "him", I will read no
further. I have rarely seen a group with a poster who is so full of
himself. On one hand it's funny, on the other it's annoying. It makes me
reluctant to check the group...and I hate that. Not trying to rant...I'm
just saying..............


Citation puleeze ;O)
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

In article ,
says...
I would love to reply to your post, but alas...
I can not read, much less reply to any post involving a reply from "billy"
I'm not trying to be caustic, but...talk about someone that has
(apparently..at least to me) no life except on this NG.
I will read any new post, but if there is a reply from "him", I will read no
further. I have rarely seen a group with a poster who is so full of
himself. On one hand it's funny, on the other it's annoying. It makes me
reluctant to check the group...and I hate that. Not trying to rant...I'm
just saying..............

If you don't like anyone, _use your killfile_ don't announce, don't
react and don't complain.

Check the group. Killfile judiciously. Kill threads that are too
annoying to you.

Survival on the nets requires an appreciation of the medium's strengths
and weaknesses, your strengths and weaknesses and a judicious use of the
*all* the tools available.

30 years on the nets suggests to me that information, communication,
discourse and argument have to matter more to you than others' projected
personas.

As for the appearance of being on USENET all the time, watch the
timestamps. I deal with a collection of posts at a time. --If I'm on a
roll it can look like I'm online all the time even though I usually deal
with this at random intervals.

Those who are retired, or who have access to the internet at work's MMV.