I hilled up several potato plants with not mature
compost , still in very rough form. -- basically leaves and
clippings clomped together.

The plants began to die back, and didn't produce a lot of (red)
potatoes.

Did I do wrong by using that material to hill up?

IOW, is this post hoc, ergo propter hoc?

Or just coincidence.

TIA

--

Persephone

I hilled up several potato plants with not mature
compost , still in very rough form. -- basically leaves and
clippings clomped together.

The plants began to die back, and didn't produce a lot of (red)
potatoes.

Did I do wrong by using that material to hill up?

IOW, is this post hoc, ergo propter hoc?

Or just coincidence.

TIA

--

Persephone
Not sure what you mean by hilled up, but it is normal to mulch potaoes with
straw, leaves, etc, Unlees you cover the entire plant, they thrive on it.
Potatoes are very susceptible to broad leaf weed killers such as 2-4D, If you
used lawn clippings from a treated lawn, it can cause a problem,

On 29 Jun 2003 18:46:33 GMT, (FarmerDill) wrote:


I hilled up several potato plants with not mature
compost , still in very rough form. -- basically leaves and
clippings clomped together.

The plants began to die back, and didn't produce a lot of (red)
potatoes.

Did I do wrong by using that material to hill up?

IOW, is this post hoc, ergo propter hoc?

Or just coincidence.

TIA

--

Persephone
Not sure what you mean by hilled up, but it is normal to mulch potaoes with
straw, leaves, etc, Unlees you cover the entire plant, they thrive on it.

That's basically what I put on. From earlier message:

***I hilled up several potato plants with not mature
compost , still in very rough form. -- basically leaves and
clippings clomped together.***


Potatoes are very susceptible to broad leaf weed killers such as 2-4D, If you
used lawn clippings from a treated lawn, it can cause a problem,

Not on my lawn!!!

So maybe the potato plants were just done anyway. Didn't yield a whole
lot. I've never had great luck with potatoes.

Thanks for your message.

--

Persephone

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:30:40 GMT, wrote:

On 29 Jun 2003 18:46:33 GMT, (FarmerDill) wrote:


I hilled up several potato plants with not mature
compost , still in very rough form. -- basically leaves and
clippings clomped together.

The plants began to die back, and didn't produce a lot of (red)
potatoes.

Did I do wrong by using that material to hill up?

IOW, is this post hoc, ergo propter hoc?

Or just coincidence.

TIA

--

Persephone
Not sure what you mean by hilled up, but it is normal to mulch potaoes with
straw, leaves, etc, Unlees you cover the entire plant, they thrive on it.

That's basically what I put on. From earlier message:

***I hilled up several potato plants with not mature
compost , still in very rough form. -- basically leaves and
clippings clomped together.***


Potatoes are very susceptible to broad leaf weed killers such as 2-4D, If you
used lawn clippings from a treated lawn, it can cause a problem,

I've always wondered about this. I thought the toxins dissipated from the
clippings quite quickly.
I used quite a bit of killer on my lawn this year.
Just moved in and it was more weed than grass.
Are the clippings OK in the compost bin?

ks said:

On 29 Jun 2003 18:46:33 GMT, (FarmerDill) wrote:

Potatoes are very susceptible to broad leaf weed killers such as 2-4D, If you
used lawn clippings from a treated lawn, it can cause a problem,

I've always wondered about this. I thought the toxins dissipated from the
clippings quite quickly.
I used quite a bit of killer on my lawn this year.
Just moved in and it was more weed than grass.
Are the clippings OK in the compost bin?

Depends on what was in the weed killer (in part) as some persist longer in
compost than others. The worst problems are with CLOPYRALID and PICLORAM.
TROCLOPYR can also be a problem.


Start with a pile of compost which has a certain amount of weed killer
in it. When the composting process is done, let's say 3/4 the weed killer was
destroyed. But the volume of compost has shrunk to 1/8 of the original volume.
The compost now has twice as much weed killer (per volume) as the starting
material. (The shrinkage is not exaggerated, either, based on my experience.)

See http://www.state.me.us/dep/rwm/resid...herbicides.htm
(or run a search on herbicides + compost for more information)

To the originator of the thread: I think it is possible that unfinished compost
(still in the actively rotting phase) is not an ideal thing to hill up potatoes with.
The addition of some juicy green stems to fluffed up compost usually relights
the fires, so to speak. My own preference is for chopped up straw.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

I hilled up several potato plants with not mature
compost , still in very rough form. -- basically leaves and
clippings clomped together.

The plants began to die back, and didn't produce a lot of (red)
potatoes.

Did I do wrong by using that material to hill up?



I had a similar problem I haven't lost my plants yet.
What happened to me was this; I used compost from my pile and I noticed the
leaves looked like they were wilting. On closer inspection I found that baby
slugs (tiny little snotty things) that were hiding my pile were now having
lunch out on the potato verandah. I got out the old spray bottle and gave them
an ammonia cool aid desert.

I HATE SLUGS!


Jack

Pat Kiewicz wrote:


But the volume of compost has shrunk to 1/8 of the original
volume. The compost now has twice as much weed killer (per volume) as the
starting material. (The shrinkage is not exaggerated, either, based on my
experience.)

I don't want to start a flamefest, but I don't think I have ever lost
anywhere near that much volume. Probably no more than 1/3 lost, 2/3 kept. I
use, almost exclusively, grass clippings and tree leaves with some kitchen
scraps for good measure. I turn perhaps twice a week (depending on what the
internal temps are), watering each time.

Does anyone have a link to a study on such shrinkage?

Bill
--
I do not post my address to news groups.

Noydb said:

Pat Kiewicz wrote:


But the volume of compost has shrunk to 1/8 of the original
volume. The compost now has twice as much weed killer (per volume) as the
starting material. (The shrinkage is not exaggerated, either, based on my
experience.)

I don't want to start a flamefest, but I don't think I have ever lost
anywhere near that much volume. Probably no more than 1/3 lost, 2/3 kept. I
use, almost exclusively, grass clippings and tree leaves with some kitchen
scraps for good measure. I turn perhaps twice a week (depending on what the
internal temps are), watering each time.

Does anyone have a link to a study on such shrinkage?

Perhaps 1/8 is a bit low. However, my compost regularly shrinks in volume to
less than 1/4 of the original amount. I think that is probably because of the large
amount of shredded leaves that goes into each batch and the fact that the curing
pile is regularly worked by redworms. Many of my batches also contain a large
amount of chopped cornstalks. (Both of these materials really compost down
in volume a LOT.)

Here's a study using various material combinations that shows reductions in
volumes varying by mix, with yeilds as low as 17% (reduction in volume as
much as 83%):

http://www.cast.ilstu.edu/ksmick/Com...mpostbuild.htm

The basic problem with highly persistant herbicides in the composting process
is that the volume reduction of the composting process equals or exceeds the
breakdown percentage of the herbicide. Thus the resulting compost is still
toxic to some plants. Clopyralid is the most problematic herbicide and is
widely used on lawns and hayfields. Picloram and triclopyr can also persist
through the composting process. Clopyralid can persist even in composted
manure.

Potatoes, tomatoes, peas and beans are the veggie garden plants most likely to
show signs of herbicide toxicity at low doses. (Which is why I brought up the
issue in this thread.)

I do not bring in any grass clippings from outside my property and avoid
using commercially made compost in my veggie garden (though I sometimes
run out of homemade compost and use bought compost on my squash beds only).
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

On 30 Jun 2003 22:39:16 GMT, (Jack1000) wrote:


I hilled up several potato plants with not mature
compost , still in very rough form. -- basically leaves and
clippings clomped together.

The plants began to die back, and didn't produce a lot of (red)
potatoes.

Did I do wrong by using that material to hill up?



I had a similar problem I haven't lost my plants yet.
What happened to me was this; I used compost from my pile and I noticed the
leaves looked like they were wilting. On closer inspection I found that baby
slugs (tiny little snotty things) that were hiding my pile were now having
lunch out on the potato verandah. I got out the old spray bottle and gave them
an ammonia cool aid desert.

Uh, oh! Wish I'd been as observant as you.

Maybe that was the problem, maybe not.

In any case, it's moot now, as I have pulled up most of the vines
and harveted the not-huge amount of red potatoes.

Next time, if there is one, I will use something more neutral than
semi-rotted compost.

I HATE SLUGS!

Er...yeah, not Nature's most appealing creation g

--

Persephone

Persephon wrote:
(Jack1000) wrote:

I hilled up several potato plants with not mature
compost , still in very rough form. -- basically leaves and
clippings clomped together.

The plants began to die back, and didn't produce a lot of (red)
potatoes.

On closer inspection I found that baby
slugs (tiny little snotty things) that were hiding my pile were now having

Maybe that was the problem, maybe not.

Taters _like_ undiluted compost.

Other plants that do are tomatoes, chilis (paprika), and pumpkins.

For anything else, undiluted compost is so strong it'll burn the roots
off. So for 99.99 % of plants, you have to dilute: 1 part compost, 1 part
peat, 1 part sand. This I learned the hard way, years and years ago...

But taters, die off because they get put into straight compost? Not in my
experience.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed
Best of RHOD: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/rhod/main.html

Pat Kiewicz wrote:

Noydb said:

Pat Kiewicz wrote:


But the volume of compost has shrunk to 1/8 of the original
volume. The compost now has twice as much weed killer (per volume) as
the starting material. (The shrinkage is not exaggerated, either, based
on my experience.)

I don't want to start a flamefest, but I don't think I have ever lost
anywhere near that much volume. Probably no more than 1/3 lost, 2/3 kept.
I use, almost exclusively, grass clippings and tree leaves with some
kitchen scraps for good measure. I turn perhaps twice a week (depending on
what the internal temps are), watering each time.

Does anyone have a link to a study on such shrinkage?

Perhaps 1/8 is a bit low. However, my compost regularly shrinks in volume
to
less than 1/4 of the original amount. I think that is probably because of
the large amount of shredded leaves that goes into each batch and the fact
that the curing
pile is regularly worked by redworms. Many of my batches also contain a
large
amount of chopped cornstalks. (Both of these materials really compost
down in volume a LOT.)


There it is. I don't use a curing pile. Until recently, I've not had enough
material to wait. I still don't have enough room. You are seeing further
shrinkage in the pile that I experience on the beds (but can not measure).
I try for a very hot compost pile, turned often (I watch for a temp.
plateau and turn when it drops 5 deg.), but applied immediately afterward.
This kills 'enough' of the seeds / diseases while leaving a generous
portion of 'the good stuff' in the mix.

Good link, BTW. Thanks.


I do not bring in any grass clippings from outside my property and avoid
using commercially made compost in my veggie garden (though I sometimes
run out of homemade compost and use bought compost on my squash beds
only).

I do use 'outside' grass clippings from two sources. 1) The alley that runs
behind my house and 2) neighbors whom I KNOW apply no chemicals at all to
their weedbeds, er, um, yards. This spring, venturing further down the
alley, I found the mother-lode of dandelion patches ... where the grass
grows tall, the dandelions do, too! Can you say "salad"?
MMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Bill
--
I do not post my address to news groups.

Henriette Kress wrote:


For anything else, undiluted compost is so strong it'll burn the roots
off. So for 99.99 % of plants, you have to dilute: 1 part compost, 1 part
peat, 1 part sand. This I learned the hard way, years and years ago...

Henriette


Ut, oh ... guess I better go pull up the garlic and onions I planted last
fall in straight, unfinished and unaged, compost.

And the lettuce I interplanted with it this spring.

I laid down a 2" layer of compost, plonked my alliums on top and covered
with another 2" (plus) layer. Then I applied a winter blanket of tree
leaves that got pulled back in the spring.

In fact, I mulch my garden with a 2"+ layer of unfinished compost and the
darned thing is so lush I am expecting the photographers to show up any day
now. :-) The strawberries gave me (from 100 sq ft) 2# - 4# per day during
their season. They were transplanted last year. This is their first
"established" year. Got really nice yields off the mesclun mix and the
spinach.

I have an unusual garden, made to settle over time and keep the planting bed
loose for a long time. I make up the settling / fill any voids with
compost.

YMMV, but it works for me.
Bill
--
I do not post my address to news groups.

Noydb wrote:
Henriette Kress wrote:

For anything else, undiluted compost is so strong it'll burn the roots
off. So for 99.99 % of plants, you have to dilute: 1 part compost, 1 part
peat, 1 part sand. This I learned the hard way, years and years ago...

Uh, oh ... guess I better go pull up the garlic and onions I planted last
fall in straight, unfinished and unaged, compost.

Yes, this does tend to segue into "and this plant, and this, and this".
Just so long as you don't plant basil, dill, parsley, thyme, sage,
echinacea, tarragon, and so on in it... I think even my mints died.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

Henriette Kress wrote:

Noydb wrote:
Henriette Kress wrote:

For anything else, undiluted compost is so strong it'll burn the roots
off. So for 99.99 % of plants, you have to dilute: 1 part compost, 1
part peat, 1 part sand. This I learned the hard way, years and years
ago...

Uh, oh ... guess I better go pull up the garlic and onions I planted last
fall in straight, unfinished and unaged, compost.

Yes, this does tend to segue into "and this plant, and this, and this".
Just so long as you don't plant basil, dill, parsley, thyme, sage,
echinacea, tarragon, and so on in it... I think even my mints died.

Henriette


Usually, finished compost assays out at about 1-1-1. As a fertilizer, it's
pretty lame. It's more impressive for its trace minerals and changes to the
soil structure that allow it to handle water better and for providing food
/ habitat for a number of soil denizens.
--
I do not post my address to news groups.