I grew a few tomatoes without stake or cage this year. Seems like
it's a better method. You get a lot more tomatoes because the stems
root themselves on the ground and multi-stems also increases the
number of fruits.

So is the one stem on a stake method just a waste of time?

On 8 Sep 2003 08:11:50 -0700, (James)
wrote:

I grew a few tomatoes without stake or cage this year. Seems like
it's a better method. You get a lot more tomatoes because the stems
root themselves on the ground and multi-stems also increases the
number of fruits.

So is the one stem on a stake method just a waste of time?

No.

It's appropriate when you want to save space, or if you have
trouble with tomatoes rotting on the ground, or being eaten
by slugs, or contracting various diseases because they've
been lying on the ground.

I haven't used this method myself, I've always used cages.

But we will - hopefully - be building a hoophouse soon and
I'll definitely stake and prune the tomatoes that I grow in
the hoophouse, for space-conserving reasons.

Pat
--
"Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of
supply and demand. It is the privilege of human beings to
live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:21:12 -0400, Pat Meadows
wrote:

On 8 Sep 2003 08:11:50 -0700, (James)
wrote:

I grew a few tomatoes without stake or cage this year. Seems like
it's a better method. You get a lot more tomatoes because the stems
root themselves on the ground and multi-stems also increases the
number of fruits.

So is the one stem on a stake method just a waste of time?

No.

It's appropriate when you want to save space, or if you have
trouble with tomatoes rotting on the ground, or being eaten
by slugs, or contracting various diseases because they've
been lying on the ground.

I haven't used this method myself, I've always used cages.

But we will - hopefully - be building a hoophouse soon and
I'll definitely stake and prune the tomatoes that I grow in
the hoophouse, for space-conserving reasons.

Pat

Please...what's a "Hoophouse"?
Thank You.
Jerry Shirley, Long island, NY

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:26:30 GMT, Jerry Minasi
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:21:12 -0400, Pat Meadows
wrote:

On 8 Sep 2003 08:11:50 -0700, (James)
wrote:

I grew a few tomatoes without stake or cage this year. Seems like
it's a better method. You get a lot more tomatoes because the stems
root themselves on the ground and multi-stems also increases the
number of fruits.

So is the one stem on a stake method just a waste of time?

No.

It's appropriate when you want to save space, or if you have
trouble with tomatoes rotting on the ground, or being eaten
by slugs, or contracting various diseases because they've
been lying on the ground.

I haven't used this method myself, I've always used cages.

But we will - hopefully - be building a hoophouse soon and
I'll definitely stake and prune the tomatoes that I grow in
the hoophouse, for space-conserving reasons.

Pat

Please...what's a "Hoophouse"?
Thank You.
Jerry Shirley, Long island, NY


Please ignore above request...I found the information on Goggle.
Thank You
Jerry

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:26:30 GMT, Jerry Minasi
wrote:



Please...what's a "Hoophouse"?
Thank You.

A (usually unheated) greenhouse made by stretching plastic
over hoops that are usually made of PVC or metal pipe and
bent into a hoop shape.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words:

http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/CEPublicatio...25/eb1825.html

You can also buy them in kit form:

http://www.hoophouse.com/

We're building a do-it-yourself version, similar to this
one:

www.westsidegardener.com/howto/hoophouse.html (I can't
access this website at the moment, but it was still there
the last time I looked - hopefully it still is.)

Another example:

http://www.marketfarming.com/lhphs.asp

We have a fairly short season here (north-central PA in the
Appalachian mountains).

Last frost in spring - May 31 theoretically, mid-June a lot
of the time (frosts in July and August have occurred here,
but rarely).
First frost in fall - first week in October

So the hoophouse can considerably extend my gardening season
on both ends. It will hopefully enable me to harvest the
really hardy plants, such as kale and chard, straight
through the winter.

I also want to grow the heat-lovers (tomatoes, peppers,
eggplants, maybe even melons and sweet potatoes) in a
hoophouse because it gets very cool here at night even in
summer - often down into the 40s - and the heat-loving
plants don't like this at all.

Pat



--
"Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of
supply and demand. It is the privilege of human beings to
live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry

(James) wrote:

I grew a few tomatoes without stake or cage this year. Seems like
it's a better method. You get a lot more tomatoes because the stems
root themselves on the ground and multi-stems also increases the
number of fruits.

So is the one stem on a stake method just a waste of time?

I had both and I really prefer the cage to a stake. tying them
appropriately requires more than a stake..a stake with nails studding
its length would work better. I and my neighbor both found the wieght
of tomatoes to eventually slide down collapsing some on the ground and
other plants. However my caged ones worked beautifully. I pinched out
early in the season on my indeterminate one but eventually I had three
major vines from one plant. Two were staked, the third grew into the
cage of the next tomato plant. The staked ones slid, hung over,
collapsed on other flowers and veggies. THe one in the cage was held
high. Next year I'm buying more cages, it kept my gardening neater
(especially in containers).

Having them slide and collapse didn't hurt my yeilds. My
indeterminate(1/8 lb fruit) has produced 40 tomatoes with 3 dozen on
the vines now(about 8 ready to pick). My determinate(1/4 lb fruit) is
finishing up, 39 so far, another dozen+ on the vine, 4 almost ripe. My
third plant, I grew as determinate(1/3 lb fruit), but it suffered from
wilt. It yeilded only 10 beefsteaks(slightly small), with another 8
greens on the plant.


DiGiTAL ViNYL (no email)
Zone 6b/7, Westchester Co, NY, 1 mile off L.I.Sound
1st Year Gardener

"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
...
(James) wrote:

I grew a few tomatoes without stake or cage this year. Seems like
it's a better method. You get a lot more tomatoes because the stems
root themselves on the ground and multi-stems also increases the
number of fruits.

So is the one stem on a stake method just a waste of time?

I had both and I really prefer the cage to a stake. tying them
appropriately requires more than a stake..a stake with nails studding
its length would work better. I and my neighbor both found the wieght
of tomatoes to eventually slide down collapsing some on the ground and
other plants. However my caged ones worked beautifully. I pinched out
early in the season on my indeterminate one but eventually I had three
major vines from one plant. Two were staked, the third grew into the
cage of the next tomato plant. The staked ones slid, hung over,
collapsed on other flowers and veggies. THe one in the cage was held
high. Next year I'm buying more cages, it kept my gardening neater
(especially in containers).

Having them slide and collapse didn't hurt my yeilds. My
indeterminate(1/8 lb fruit) has produced 40 tomatoes with 3 dozen on
the vines now(about 8 ready to pick). My determinate(1/4 lb fruit) is
finishing up, 39 so far, another dozen+ on the vine, 4 almost ripe. My
third plant, I grew as determinate(1/3 lb fruit), but it suffered from
wilt. It yeilded only 10 beefsteaks(slightly small), with another 8
greens on the plant.

For the past few years I have used only cages, an this year I wanted to try
a staked vs. caged trail but both plants died. For some reason this year
most of my cages fell over and crushed other tomatoes, so it's been a mess.
It's made me really consider doing all staked next year, but I have
reservations since your posting.

Every time I have staked tomatoes, the weight of the tomatoes causes the
plant to slide down the stake and the result has been the same as no stake.

Regards, hawk

On 8 Sep 2003 08:11:50 -0700, James wrote:

I grew a few tomatoes without stake or cage this year. Seems like
it's a better method. You get a lot more tomatoes because the stems
root themselves on the ground and multi-stems also increases the
number of fruits.

So is the one stem on a stake method just a waste of time?



--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

DigitalVinyl said:

I had both and I really prefer the cage to a stake. tying them
appropriately requires more than a stake..a stake with nails studding
its length would work better. I and my neighbor both found the wieght
of tomatoes to eventually slide down collapsing some on the ground and
other plants

I've never had this happen. I use plastic-coated metal stakes (which have
a slightly knobby texture) and stretchy plastic ties (which can be placed snug,
but still have enough give to allow the stems to grow).

Driving large tacks into a wooden stem (the kind used on furniture) might cut
the chance of the plants telescoping down the stake.

By staking, I can grow more varieties of tomatoes in one bed than I could using
cages.
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

(Pat Kiewicz) wrote:

DigitalVinyl said:

I had both and I really prefer the cage to a stake. tying them
appropriately requires more than a stake..a stake with nails studding
its length would work better. I and my neighbor both found the wieght
of tomatoes to eventually slide down collapsing some on the ground and
other plants

I've never had this happen. I use plastic-coated metal stakes (which have
a slightly knobby texture) and stretchy plastic ties (which can be placed snug,
but still have enough give to allow the stems to grow).
Sounds like the same stakes I used (purchased at home depot). The main
stem grew very thick and pretty much supported itself for the first
few feet. It was the top and secondary vines that kept sliding. Maybe
with a different tie. Once they do slide I don't like to touch them
because I can seem the sharp bends in them and don't want to do
further damage.

Driving large tacks into a wooden stem (the kind used on furniture) might cut
the chance of the plants telescoping down the stake.

By staking, I can grow more varieties of tomatoes in one bed than I could using
cages.
I can see that--you manage quantity for variety. I might be curious
about different varieties, but I have limited space so a few is all I
can do. Next year I'm thinking a early cherry in a hanging basket
would be a good addition.

If I had properly pinched out all suckers stakes wouldn't have
mattered since the plant would have grown beyond six feet tall. One
plant had a 6' main stem and two 5' offshoots. I can't help but think
that pinching out further would have reduced my yield.

I grew these two in a 1.5'x 3' corner area, however one vine branched
out and took up an additional square foot. Until it fell a flower bed
was growing at the base of the second stake so the land had a use
besides the tomatoes.

I think two cages in that corner and just let them grow wild would be
easier.
DiGiTAL ViNYL (no email)
Zone 6b/7, Westchester Co, NY, 1 mile off L.I.Sound
1st Year Gardener

"FDR" wrote:

For the past few years I have used only cages, an this year I wanted to try
a staked vs. caged trail but both plants died. For some reason this year
most of my cages fell over and crushed other tomatoes, so it's been a mess.
It's made me really consider doing all staked next year, but I have
reservations since your posting.

You may have better success...lots do use stakes. The only problem I
had like that was with one trough container that tipped over three
times during windy weather. The whole trough+cage fell over. I had
some very tall plants there and it blew over repeatedly. Another cage
on top of a container never blew over. Maybe that plant just had good
aerodynamics.

I didn't experience cages coming out of the ground and blowing over,
not even when stacked 5+' high. These cages have 8" spikes that sink
into the ground. That was enough for them--although we didn't get any
tropical storms or hurricane-like weather here.



DiGiTAL ViNYL (no email)
Zone 6b/7, Westchester Co, NY, 1 mile off L.I.Sound
1st Year Gardener

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:50:15 GMT, DigitalVinyl
wrote:


I can see that--you manage quantity for variety. I might be curious
about different varieties, but I have limited space so a few is all I
can do. Next year I'm thinking a early cherry in a hanging basket
would be a good addition.

Unless you get a miniature tomato (Yellow Canary is an
indeterminate miniature), I think you would need an
absolutely huge hanging basket and very strong support.
Beyond what's practical, really.

Most cherry tomato plants are immense: we've got two in our
garden now that are about six feet high and about six feet
in diameter.

Small tomatoes does not equal small plant.


I think two cages in that corner and just let them grow wild would be
easier.

I've always caged tomatoes because I think it's easier. But
once we get the hoophouse, I'll be more interested in
conserving space - so at least the tomatoes grown in the
hoophouse will be pruned and trellised in some manner.

Pat
--
"Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of
supply and demand. It is the privilege of human beings to
live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry

Pat Meadows wrote:

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:50:15 GMT, DigitalVinyl
wrote:


I can see that--you manage quantity for variety. I might be curious
about different varieties, but I have limited space so a few is all I
can do. Next year I'm thinking a early cherry in a hanging basket
would be a good addition.

Unless you get a miniature tomato (Yellow Canary is an
indeterminate miniature), I think you would need an
absolutely huge hanging basket and very strong support.
Beyond what's practical, really.

Most cherry tomato plants are immense: we've got two in our
garden now that are about six feet high and about six feet
in diameter.

Small tomatoes does not equal small plant.
I've seen lots of talk of hanging cherry tomatoes. And think about it.
If I grow a tomato plant in a 10" round, 6" deep pot, I'm not going to
get a 6' x 6' plant. Sort of self limiting. I can also keep it pruned
some if it seems unruly. I think there may even be varieties
specifically for baskets.

My mom once put regular beefsteak tomato seeds in the corner of her
flower box. They grew about three feet high and ended up with several
cherry-sized tomatoes. The small 8" cube area of dirt stunted them,
but she got tomatoes.

I think two cages in that corner and just let them grow wild would be
easier.

I've always caged tomatoes because I think it's easier. But
once we get the hoophouse, I'll be more interested in
conserving space - so at least the tomatoes grown in the
hoophouse will be pruned and trellised in some manner.

Pat

DiGiTAL ViNYL (no email)
Zone 6b/7, Westchester Co, NY, 1 mile off L.I.Sound
1st Year Gardener

In article , hawk wrote:
Every time I have staked tomatoes, the weight of the tomatoes causes the
plant to slide down the stake and the result has been the same as no stake.

Regards, hawk

On 8 Sep 2003 08:11:50 -0700, James wrote:

I grew a few tomatoes without stake or cage this year. Seems like
it's a better method. You get a lot more tomatoes because the stems
root themselves on the ground and multi-stems also increases the
number of fruits.

So is the one stem on a stake method just a waste of time?

I've _always_ staked, and never had this sliding problem. Maybe it's my
choice of stake -- I rip 2x4's into 2x2's, and there's plenty of roughness.
Just tie around the stake before tying the plants. Only problem is when
plants get 6' tall and up, and loaded with tomatoes, they can really stress
the stake. Sometimes I've had to guy the stakes to relieve the stress.
Using other materials could cause sliding difficulties if they have slick
exteriors.

I've tried cages but (personally) don't like them as much -- they take up
lots more room both in the garden and storing over the winter. Gardening
in the city is always a space-challenge, even when you devote nearly all of
your non-house property to the garden.

-frank
--

In article ,
(Frank Miles) wrote:

In article , hawk wrote:
Every time I have staked tomatoes, the weight of the tomatoes causes the
plant to slide down the stake and the result has been the same as no stake.

Regards, hawk

On 8 Sep 2003 08:11:50 -0700, James wrote:

I grew a few tomatoes without stake or cage this year. Seems like
it's a better method. You get a lot more tomatoes because the stems
root themselves on the ground and multi-stems also increases the
number of fruits.

So is the one stem on a stake method just a waste of time?

I've _always_ staked, and never had this sliding problem. Maybe it's my
choice of stake -- I rip 2x4's into 2x2's, and there's plenty of roughness.
Just tie around the stake before tying the plants. Only problem is when
plants get 6' tall and up, and loaded with tomatoes, they can really stress
the stake. Sometimes I've had to guy the stakes to relieve the stress.
Using other materials could cause sliding difficulties if they have slick
exteriors.


We use the same kind of stakes but clip the tomatoes at the top when
they become a problem. I like cages (the heavy gauge, farm-grade,
stackable ones, not those dippy things that bend) for certain tomato
varieties, especially ones that have a tendency to produce huge
tomatoes. I like some of my tomatoes not so huge lol and caging them
accomplishes that. But we stake three times as many as we cage.


I've tried cages but (personally) don't like them as much -- they take up
lots more room both in the garden and storing over the winter. Gardening
in the city is always a space-challenge, even when you devote nearly all of
your non-house property to the garden.

-frank
--