On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:28:36 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:58:35 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:


On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:58:35 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

Dear Sue,

I know you want to believe that you will be able to go on living much as you
do after TEOTWAWKI, but that just isn't going to happen.

Most of the survival information presented on this group is of SHORT-TERM
relevance only.

These folks just don't realize that if they are dependent on complex tech-
nologies in a world without the industrial infrastructure to maintain them,
they just aren't going to last more than a year or two, outside.

They seem to believe that what's coming will be just another Depression to
be weathered until it passes.

Sorry. There are far more people now, than there were in the 30's, and the
Land is in MUCH worse shape.

There will be no recovery from this Depression.

Mobility will be the key to survival, and if you can't run like hell for
your lives on a moment's notice, then you probably won't make it.

This means that you need to have Bug-Out-Bags handy and have the knowledge
and tools in them to create what you need from native raw materials.

Food -- Clothing -- Footwear -- Shelter -- Heat -- Light -- Water --

An addiction to animal foods will probably do you in faster than anything
else.

It is just too much work and there will be too many people competing for
what animals there are.

There is also no way to adequately camoflauge a Shelter if you hunt or
trap or keep animals. Too many signs.

"Camoflauge". Oh yes. Your FIRST defense.

Unless you are a fool that wants to live like a pig because you have to
put all your energy and time into (maybe) driving off people that want
what you have.

Or running from them...


see http://home.earthlink.net/~littlefoot8/wildwood.html



AC



And above all, don't have anything to do with any of the people that look
upon the gun as their primary survival tool.

No one here does.


If you even let them know where your Shelter is, you will be sorry, because
they will be forced by their own stupidity and ignorance to become brigands
in no time, if they even live that long.

"You"? Since I beleive you are addressing my post I assume you mean
me. I HAVE NO SHELTER NOW NOR WILL I EVER. YOU DO NOT NEED TO
LECTURE ME!!! Yes, I'm shouting because you aren't paying any
attention.


The other group of people here to avoid, and the two often overlap, are
the ones that seem to think that they can live just like the American
Pioneers did in the MOVIES.

No one here does. If you paid attention you would know this. Perhaps
you suffer from ADD along with whatever else is wrong with you.


Sorry. But the North American continent is just not what it was back then.
There are 100X as many people and 1/100th of the unspoiled wilderness.

And most of them have guns but no other survival skills.

This is a stupid assumption on your part. But, it's what most here
have come to expect.


Which leaves competing for the rapidly dwindling populations of large
game animals and piracy their only means of survival.

When they run out of canned goods they are going to be dangerous as ****,

Tch, tch, Such language.
What is this, a race to see who will killfile whom first?
You may win.

or sooner if they don't have any stores.

see http://home.earthlink.net/~littlefoot8/wildwood.html

I looked at it the last time you made an appearance here. Before you
killfiled everyone on MS. Chuckle. I suspect you will eventually get
around to doing this again.
Sue-Bitch realizing that Bob G. was right.




AC

In article . net,
says...

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:58:35 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

Dear Sue,

I know you want to believe that you will be able to go on living much as
you
do after TEOTWAWKI, but that just isn't going to happen.

Dude... Barring a meteor strike on the Earth large enough to
collapse civilization, TEOTWAWKI is NOT going to happen.

Most of the survival information presented on this group is of SHORT-TERM
relevance only.

If you do not live through the short term, you will not need
to worry about long term...

FW

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:28:36 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:


They read my posts, Sue.

Not wanting to be attacked by mean bigots like you, they don't POST on the
topic.

But they READ.

They know that people like you are the same people that got us into this
mess.

So where's our pal David Rain? You scare him away with your craziness?

(I swear I'm going to teach him about killfiles.)

AC

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 06:03:48 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:28:36 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:


They read my posts, Sue.

"They"? Who might "they" be?

Not wanting to be attacked by mean bigots like you, they don't POST on the
topic.

You have failed to post any evidence that I am a mean bigot.
Actually, I'm rather a nice person.


But they READ.

Once again, who are "they"? Your fan club? All those people you
talked about when you were here before who subscribe to your message
board?


They know that people like you are the same people that got us into this
mess.

Once again, who are "they"?


So where's our pal David Rain?

Only you would know.

You scare him away with your craziness?

Whose craziness? LOL I believe you must have suppressed him for the
time being. Perhaps "they" are the little voices in your head.


(I swear I'm going to teach him about killfiles.)

Well, you would certainly be in a position to do so. Chuckle.
Alan/David it's been a hoot once again, but I'm going to take Bob G's
advice and ignore you - not killfile you - just ignore you. I told
you I'm a nice person and it isn't nice to feed the crazy trolls. I'm
starting to feel guilty. I wish Myal were here to take up the slack.
Sue-Bitch

-dir

"Alan Connor" wrote in message

I know you want to believe that you will be able to go on living much as
you
do after TEOTWAWKI, but that just isn't going to happen.
(snip)
Food -- (snip)
An addiction to animal foods will probably do you in faster than anything
else.

It is just too much work and there will be too many people competing for
what animals there are.

You need to get out into rural surroundings more often

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 06:03:48 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:28:36 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:


They read my posts, Sue.

Not wanting to be attacked by mean bigots like you, they don't POST on the
topic.

But they READ.

They know that people like you are the same people that got us into this
mess.

So where's our pal David Rain? You scare him away with your craziness?

(I swear I'm going to teach him about killfiles.)

AC


He is really, REALLY certain that they read his missives because GOD
TOLD HIM SO DIRECTLY.

If not for God's direct intervention - he might have begun to believe
that people REALLY, REALLY DO think he is a pathetic numbnuts with
delusions of adequacy. Because everybody else in the the newsgroups he
frequents seems to agree that that is EXACTLY what he is.

And anybody who tells him that he is a pathetic numbnuts is -
naturally - a 'MEAN BIGOT". Everybody with two brains cells to rub
together is a "MEAN BIGOT" because that makes them at least twice as
intelligent as he is.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:24:49 GMT, Greylock wrote:


I went back through 3000 posts and read your other contributions to this
group under this name.

You have nothing to say that I care to listen to.

The rest deleted unseen and this name killfiled.


AC

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:41:55 +1100, Fran wrote:


"Alan Connor" wrote in message

I know you want to believe that you will be able to go on living much as
you
do after TEOTWAWKI, but that just isn't going to happen.
(snip)
Food -- (snip)
An addiction to animal foods will probably do you in faster than anything
else.

It is just too much work and there will be too many people competing for
what animals there are.


You need to get out into rural surroundings more often



The RATIO of people to large game or domestic animals across the continent
is the important figure here.

Obviously, most of the animals are in rural areas.

And when any one of those areas is flooded with refugees from the cities large
and small, you will see what I am getting at in short order.

It will probably be the last thing you see on Earth.



AC

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:24:49 GMT, Greylock wrote:


I went back through 3000 posts and read your other contributions to this
group under this name.

You have nothing to say that I care to listen to.

The rest deleted unseen and this name killfiled.


AC

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:41:55 +1100, Fran wrote:


"Alan Connor" wrote in message

I know you want to believe that you will be able to go on living much as
you
do after TEOTWAWKI, but that just isn't going to happen.
(snip)
Food -- (snip)
An addiction to animal foods will probably do you in faster than anything
else.

It is just too much work and there will be too many people competing for
what animals there are.


You need to get out into rural surroundings more often



The RATIO of people to large game or domestic animals across the continent
is the important figure here.

Obviously, most of the animals are in rural areas.

And when any one of those areas is flooded with refugees from the cities large
and small, you will see what I am getting at in short order.

It will probably be the last thing you see on Earth.



AC

Alan Connor wrote:


We can digest parched grass SEEDS, though, commonly known as "grain",

Seeds & plants are two different classes of edibles.

and
the roots are not only nutritious and tasty,

Some are nutritious, some are not, some are toxic, and none are "tasty"
other than plants such as beets, carrots, yams, etc. which are developed
for their roots or other underground edible parts; in a goodly number of
these cases the above-ground portion of the plant is toxic,
non-digestible, and often a combination of the two.

but contain essential B vitamins.

(this is where B12 comes from:

So we short-circuit the agricultural world & eat just nitrogen-fixing
bacteria as a source of B-vitamins? Not apt to catch on.

Soil bacteria that are found in Nature around
and on the roots of grass, NOT from cows or deer, except indirectly.)

But it's in a readily digestible form for carnivores & omnivores. And
cooked meat, for at least 100,000 years, TASTES GOOD.


grain=protein

We can also chew the grass stems and leaves obtaining sustenance without
swallowing all that cellulose,

Miniscule quantities at best

and cooking releases even more.

Cooking breaks down the cell structure; digestive processes do also -
for some materials.


(A downed American airmen in the Balkans survived a grueling cross-country
escape from enemy-held territory by chewing on grass...)

Hardly what one would call a subsistence diet. Shipwreck survivors have
made do with boots & belts but no sane person would suggest such a diet
other than in extremis.


I'd be willing to bet that some simple treatment with vinegar or perhaps
a weak lye solution would make the entire plant digestible. Worth looking
into....

Did you ever take chemistry in high school? This suggestion seems far
more like wishful thinking than nutrition.


But then, there are approximately 1800 known wild edible plants in the U.S.,
so why bother with anything but the seeds and roots of grass?

See your doctor. Soon.

It's the seeds the Bears go after...

Bears are omnivores. Although they eat acorns, beechnuts, hazlenuts,
they prefer berries, which are not simple seeds, because they're easy to
gather & a variety come into season one species after another giving the
bears a moderately continuous food supply. But they also eat ants,
beetles, sow bugs & other insects found in stumps & rotting timber. They
will also eat birds, eggs, fish, reptiles, small mammals & their own
young. And bears are great for cleaning up carrion that the
ravens/vultures can be scared away from.

(that's what they use to stoke up for
winter: grass seeds. Which is one of the reasons Cattle grazing on public
lands is so hard on the Bears.)

16# of grain to produce 1# of meat, and that pound of meat will have one
heck of a lot less protein in a form that is much harder for the Human
body to digest.

The human digestive tract is designed to handle both vegetable and meat.
So long as it's presented with a generalized mixture of the two, the
only conflict is in the minds of those who think they know more than
Mother Nature.


Then there's all that work and water that meat requires.

So you go on an all-vegetable diet (without work? if you patent that,
your fortune's made no matter what you eat) and if you don't drink water
your experiment will end rather quickly. Humans are not kangaroo rats
that can get all their liquid requirements from their food items.

About the only thing in your post I can agree with is that the world
contains food. Your notions about what can/should be eaten need serious
& deep examination.

Pete H

--
When eating an elephant
take one bite at a time.
C. Abrams

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:51:37 -0500, Peter H wrote:


Alan Connor wrote:


We can digest parched grass SEEDS, though, commonly known as "grain",

Seeds & plants are two different classes of edibles.

and
the roots are not only nutritious and tasty,

Some are nutritious, some are not, some are toxic, and none are "tasty"
other than plants such as beets, carrots, yams, etc. which are developed
for their roots or other underground edible parts; in a goodly number of
these cases the above-ground portion of the plant is toxic,
non-digestible, and often a combination of the two.


None of the grasses in our locale are like that.

None that we've tried, anyway, and grasses commonly grow in rather large
and obvious patches.

So we need to deal with this before proceeding.

EXACTLY which wild grasses found commonly in North America have poisonous
roots and above-ground parts.

We ARE talking about GRASSES here, and not the other 1800+ species of
wild edible plants found in the U.S. Survival situations.

As for "tasty", that is a purely subjective affair, and no one but a fool
would claim to speak for all of humanity on such matters. The method of
preparation is often the determining factor, obviously.

The rest deleted unseen.

Time to backup your claims above with some real data.


AC

Alan Connor wrote:

None of the grasses in our locale are like that.




I overspoke to the extent of broadening 'grasses' to vegetation in
general. In northern Maine, very little of the vegetation is true
grasses. Much of what ordinary folk would call grass is sedge instead.
Some of their fruiting bodies (seeds) do funny/harmful things to human
innnards. Along with offering a very dull manner of starvation by
malnutrition.

Pete H

--
When eating an elephant
take one bite at a time.
C. Abrams

Fine by me, but your record indicates you're or either lying or
incompetent, because your "killfile" doesn't seem to be very
effective.


On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:28:36 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:24:49 GMT, Greylock wrote:


I went back through 3000 posts and read your other contributions to this
group under this name.

You have nothing to say that I care to listen to.

The rest deleted unseen and this name killfiled.


AC

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:40:13 -0500, Peter H wrote:


Alan Connor wrote:

None of the grasses in our locale are like that.




I overspoke to the extent of broadening 'grasses' to vegetation in
general. In northern Maine, very little of the vegetation is true
grasses. Much of what ordinary folk would call grass is sedge instead.
Some of their fruiting bodies (seeds) do funny/harmful things to human
innnards. Along with offering a very dull manner of starvation by
malnutrition.

Pete H


Okay. But the roots of SOME sedges are listed in various books on wild
edible plants of North America as edible and "nutty in flavor".

I don't keep up with these plants, there being few marshes in the area,
but DO remembering reading that in more than one book.

The seeds could very well be poisonous, but sedges have no joints in the
stem and are thus very easy to distinguish from grasses.

As for your last statement about "malnutrition", it just doesn't make any
sense to me at all.

I have never even HEARD of a person practicing an herbivorous diet-style
that limited themselves to only one plant.

Who would do that when there are THOUSANDS available, which is considerably
more than the selection to be found in the average market.

You sound like an animal-product addict that is trying to convince yourself
and others that people can't be healthy and have tasty food if they eat only
plants, which is just nonsense.

I REALLY recommend checking out madcowboy.com and the various studies and
links found there.

Particularly the China Project of Dr. T. Colin Campbell


AC

--
When eating an elephant
take one bite at a time.
C. Abrams



--
Don't eat elephants. They are an endangered species.