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#1
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Black Brush and green algae problems.
I recently redid my substrate last may and replaced it with the Black
Oceanic substrate. It looks great and haven't had many problems. I tried to remove any Malaysian trumpet snail eggs from the plants. Now the snails are back, quite a few. Usually 2 every inch of substrate. I have noticed within the last month, black brush growing again and a green film on top of the water. I do biweekly water changes now, aprox 30%. I did notice that the nitrates are about 12.5, I added some nitrate remover today as well as added co2 again at 2 bubbles per sec. Nitrites are ok, ph, 6.8, no phosphates, no ammonia, GH 7 KH are about 3. Is it possible that the amount of trumpet snails could be effecting the nitrates? The fish are fine, japonica are well, and everyone is happy, except me since the algae is becoming a real problem. Any suggestions on how to remove them without chemicals? Thanks. -- Later. D.E. Have a better one. To reply, simply remove:forgetthespam. |
#2
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Black Brush and green algae problems.
The best way to avoid algae is to make sure your plants have everything they
need to grow, then they will simple outcompete the algae for nutrients. This isn't an easy thing to do since if your missing just one nutrient then the plants will slow down and the algae increase. Generally... Phospate - 0.1ppm Nitrate - 5ppm CO2 - 20-35ppm GH - 3 ( calcium/potassium/magnesium ) You say you have no phospate - this will limit plant growth and you will probably see green algae on the glass and leaves. If you have algae on the water surface it's a sure sign of overfeeding. pH of 6.8 and KH of 3 means approx 14ppm of CO2 - the plants will grow better if the CO2 is above 20ppm (just change your KH to 4) Don't use any pH buffers! -- Best regards Mark ".D.E." wrote in message news:xEg0f.65516$1i.62336@pd7tw2no... I recently redid my substrate last may and replaced it with the Black Oceanic substrate. It looks great and haven't had many problems. I tried to remove any Malaysian trumpet snail eggs from the plants. Now the snails are back, quite a few. Usually 2 every inch of substrate. I have noticed within the last month, black brush growing again and a green film on top of the water. I do biweekly water changes now, aprox 30%. I did notice that the nitrates are about 12.5, I added some nitrate remover today as well as added co2 again at 2 bubbles per sec. Nitrites are ok, ph, 6.8, no phosphates, no ammonia, GH 7 KH are about 3. Is it possible that the amount of trumpet snails could be effecting the nitrates? The fish are fine, japonica are well, and everyone is happy, except me since the algae is becoming a real problem. Any suggestions on how to remove them without chemicals? Thanks. -- Later. D.E. Have a better one. To reply, simply remove:forgetthespam. |
#3
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
"Mark Baldwin" wrote in message ... The best way to avoid algae is to make sure your plants have everything they need to grow, then they will simple outcompete the algae for nutrients. I'm using Excel and Flourish micronutrients plus extra Potash and still have an algae problem. :-( The black sooty algae has been replaced by a black wiry, very ugly algae now. Neither the goldfish, the otos nor the 2 plecos will eat it. This isn't an easy thing to do since if your missing just one nutrient then the plants will slow down and the algae increase. How can anyone possibly know without extensive expensive testing what that nutrient can be? Generally... Phospate - 0.1ppm No test for that one. Nitrate - 5ppm Mine stays around 15 to 20ppm, as it comes from the tap. CO2 - 20-35ppm No test kit for this one either. GH - 3 ( calcium/potassium/magnesium ) Over 300 and alkaline - 7.5 and above. You say you have no phospate - this will limit plant growth and you will probably see green algae on the glass and leaves. We get the red-black sooty or wiry algae. If you have algae on the water surface it's a sure sign of overfeeding. pH of 6.8 and KH of 3 means approx 14ppm of CO2 - the plants will grow better if the CO2 is above 20ppm (just change your KH to 4) Don't use any pH buffers! -- Best regards Mark -- Koi-Lo.... My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 Troll Information: ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
#4
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
If you don't want algae then you need to monitor your tank parameters,
especially phospate and nitrate. Read about the redfield ratio... http://www.xs4all.nl/~buddendo/aquar...dfield_eng.htm You can estimate CO2 based on pH and KH... http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html If you tap water has lots of nitrate then either use RO water or use a nitrate sponge such as NitraZorb http://www.aquariumpharm.com/en_gb/p...ame=Filtration This stuff will soak up pretty much all your nitrate which won't do your plants any good but you can use it 24hours before a water change to reduce nitrate to zero, then when you add your new water you will add nitrate but it will be diluted into the existing tank water. -- Best regards Mark "Koi-Lo" None wrote in message ... *Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups. "Mark Baldwin" wrote in message ... The best way to avoid algae is to make sure your plants have everything they need to grow, then they will simple outcompete the algae for nutrients. I'm using Excel and Flourish micronutrients plus extra Potash and still have an algae problem. :-( The black sooty algae has been replaced by a black wiry, very ugly algae now. Neither the goldfish, the otos nor the 2 plecos will eat it. This isn't an easy thing to do since if your missing just one nutrient then the plants will slow down and the algae increase. How can anyone possibly know without extensive expensive testing what that nutrient can be? Generally... Phospate - 0.1ppm No test for that one. Nitrate - 5ppm Mine stays around 15 to 20ppm, as it comes from the tap. CO2 - 20-35ppm No test kit for this one either. GH - 3 ( calcium/potassium/magnesium ) Over 300 and alkaline - 7.5 and above. You say you have no phospate - this will limit plant growth and you will probably see green algae on the glass and leaves. We get the red-black sooty or wiry algae. If you have algae on the water surface it's a sure sign of overfeeding. pH of 6.8 and KH of 3 means approx 14ppm of CO2 - the plants will grow better if the CO2 is above 20ppm (just change your KH to 4) Don't use any pH buffers! -- Best regards Mark -- Koi-Lo.... My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 Troll Information: ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
#5
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
"Mark Baldwin" wrote in message ... If you don't want algae then you need to monitor your tank parameters, especially phospate and nitrate. Read about the redfield ratio... http://www.xs4all.nl/~buddendo/aquar...dfield_eng.htm You can estimate CO2 based on pH and KH... http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html If you tap water has lots of nitrate then either use RO water or use a nitrate sponge such as NitraZorb http://www.aquariumpharm.com/en_gb/p...ame=Filtration This stuff will soak up pretty much all your nitrate which won't do your plants any good but you can use it 24hours before a water change to reduce nitrate to zero, then when you add your new water you will add nitrate but it will be diluted into the existing tank water. ================= Thanks for the info. I was hoping I wouldn't need to spend a small fortune for test kits, fertilizers and other paraphernalia just to grow some nice plants in these display tanks.......... -- Koi-Lo.... Aquariums since 1952. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
#6
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:04:53 -0500, "Koi-Lo" None wrote:
Thanks for the info. I was hoping I wouldn't need to spend a small fortune for test kits, fertilizers and other paraphernalia just to grow some nice plants in these display tanks.......... Have you tried Barley Straw? It's supposed to be a cheap, safe algaecide. Cleaner fish & snails will only eat the shorter forms of black brush algae. The longer forms react to CO2 and should detach after 2-3 months. If you aren't doing CO2 injection I'd reduce surface agitation as much as possible and shorten the duration of light. Rather than waiting for it to fall off and vacuum it up, I'd just get rid of as much infested plant matter as possible. There are extreme ways of killing & removing algae with chemical soaks. But the infested plants are probably so sick it probably isn't going to work. Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for certain plants? From what I'm seeing a small fortune is almost inevitable as one goes up the learning curve. I'm finding it MUCH more expensive than fishkeeping. IMHO Aquatic gardening on a tight budget is like fish keeping with a small tank. More precision is required, it's harder to move forward, and mistakes have bigger consequences. Of course I'm trying to learn on the cheap as well I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe others have reading recommendations that have helped them they can endorse? |
#7
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
"Jolly Fisherman" wrote in message ... On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:04:53 -0500, "Koi-Lo" None wrote: Thanks for the info. I was hoping I wouldn't need to spend a small fortune for test kits, fertilizers and other paraphernalia just to grow some nice plants in these display tanks.......... Have you tried Barley Straw? It's supposed to be a cheap, safe algaecide. No, I haven't tried it. They don't sell it locally and it's out of sight online when they add S&H charges. I can't afford to try everything out there. I spent quite a bit on all the Sechem Flourish products and the effect wasn't long lasting. After the initial "boost," things went back to where they were. The plecos and otos are helping but the "black" stuff is still there. Cleaner fish & snails will only eat the shorter forms of black brush algae. The longer forms react to CO2 and should detach after 2-3 months. The sooty algae stopped growing but by no means did it fall off or turn white as I expected it to do. The plecs and otos removed most if it. Then it was replaced by this black wiry looking stuff. Meanwhile the plants are looking pooped again. The Amazon swords have stopped growing and the leaves are getting narrower and smaller. Only the vals are really thriving. I do add extra potassium but it makes no difference. If you aren't doing CO2 injection I'd reduce surface agitation as much as possible and shorten the duration of light. Rather than waiting for it to fall off and vacuum it up, I'd just get rid of as much infested plant matter as possible. There are extreme ways of killing & removing algae with chemical soaks. But the infested plants are probably so sick it probably isn't going to work. I use Flourish Excel. Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for certain plants? I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and re-do them. This is the busiest time of the year here. From what I'm seeing a small fortune is almost inevitable as one goes up the learning curve. I'm finding it MUCH more expensive than fishkeeping. IMHO Aquatic gardening on a tight budget is like fish keeping with a small tank. More precision is required, it's harder to move forward, and mistakes have bigger consequences. Of course I'm trying to learn on the cheap as well I know what you mean. :-)) I may just give up and keep those that thrive without all the expensive supplements - the vals, hornwart, anubia, elodia, Java moss and a few slow-growing old crypts I've had for many years. I suppose I just wanted to see some NEW or different plants in the tanks. I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe others have reading recommendations that have helped them they can endorse? -- KL.... Frugal ponding since 1995. Aquariums since 1952. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 *Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups. ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
#8
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:23:02 -0500, Köi-Lö ¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô wrote:
*Note: There are five "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups. "Jolly Fisherman" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:04:53 -0500, "Koi-Lo" None wrote: Thanks for the info. I was hoping I wouldn't need to spend a small fortune for test kits, fertilizers and other paraphernalia just to grow some nice plants in these display tanks.......... I am a cheap son of a bitch when it comes to buying stuff. If I can;t shop lift it or get Randy to rip it off, I do without. Have you tried Barley Straw? It's supposed to be a cheap, safe algaecide. No, randy keeps easting it as he is a mushroom and mushrooms like straw bedding. No, I haven't tried it. They don't sell it locally and it's out of sight online when they add S&H charges. Like I said I am a ****ing cheap son of a bitch. I can't afford to try everything out there. No time to ploay with junk I have usenet groups to destroy I spent quite a bit on all the Sechem Flourish products and the effect wasn't long lasting. Guess I should not have water it down. after all like I said I am a cheap SOB. After the initial "boost," things went back to where they were. The plecos and otos are helping but the "black" stuff is still there. Only thing else in this area thats black is my well,mmmmmm I just as soon not divulge that ****up. Cleaner fish & snails will only eat the shorter forms of black brush algae. The longer forms react to CO2 and should detach after 2-3 months. I do not have 2 or 3 months to fool around. I may try pool chlorinator tomorrow The sooty algae stopped growing but by no means did it fall off or turn white as I expected it to do. I guess I shoud not have given the fish marajuana to eat inpoace of veggies, huh? The plecs and otos removed most if it. Then it was replaced by this black wiry looking stuff. Meanwhile the plants are looking pooped again. The Amazon swords have stopped growing and the leaves are getting narrower and smaller. Only the vals are really thriving. I do add extra potassium but it makes no difference. I think I may pull those ploants and feed em to RAndy tonight for a salad. He is stupid and will not know it from Kale If you aren't doing CO2 injection I'd reduce surface Only think I inject is heroin, can;t you tell........ agitation as much as possible and shorten the duration of light. Only agitatin I do is nthe usenet groups Rather than waiting for it to fall off and vacuum it up, I'd just get rid of as much infested plant matter as possible. There are extreme ways of killing & removing algae with chemical soaks. But the infested plants are probably so sick it probably isn't going to work. Like I said, I'll pull it all and feed it to Randy I use Flourish Excel. I use Trojans myself unless of course I give oral then I just swallow... Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for certain plants? Guess we need to stop using the tanks for a toilet then..... I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and re-do them. This is the busiest time of the year here. I have too much to do with keeping the usenet in turmoil than fool with these stupid plants. From what I'm seeing a small fortune is almost inevitable as one goes up the learning curve. I'm finding it MUCH more expensive than fishkeeping. Because I am such a dumbass IMHO Aquatic gardening on a tight budget is like fish keeping with a small tank. More precision is required, it's harder to move forward, and mistakes have bigger consequences. Of course I'm trying to learn on the cheap as well I am just to stupid to comprehend all this crap I know what you mean. :-)) I may just give up and keep those that thrive without all the expensive supplements - the vals, hornwart, anubia, elodia, Java moss and a few slow-growing old crypts I've had for many years. I suppose I just wanted to see some NEW or different plants in the tanks. I need to quite the crypts and jion the bloods like Randy said we should I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe others have reading recommendations that have helped them they can endorse? I just have to find someone to read it to me now as I am one illiterate asshole. Look that word up in a dictionary and yu can see my picture next to it, and if yuuy want to see what Randy looks like look up the word Moron. or mushroom. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#9
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:23:02 -0500, Köi-Lö ¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô wrote:
snip Have you tried Barley Straw? It's supposed to be a cheap, safe algaecide. No, I haven't tried it. They don't sell it locally and it's out of sight online when they add S&H charges. I can't afford to try everything out there. I spent quite a bit on all the Sechem Flourish products and the effect wasn't long lasting. After the initial "boost," things went back to where they were. The plecos and otos are helping but the "black" stuff is still there. I've only seen the extract in 1 or 2 aquarium specialty shops locally (different state of course) and it's out of sight. True the shipping and handling of either a bale or the extract makes it absurd unless you are already ordering other things at the time. Cleaner fish & snails will only eat the shorter forms of black brush algae. The longer forms react to CO2 and should detach after 2-3 months. The sooty algae stopped growing but by no means did it fall off or turn white as I expected it to do. The plecs and otos removed most if it. Then it was replaced by this black wiry looking stuff. Meanwhile the plants are looking pooped again. The Amazon swords have stopped growing and the leaves are getting narrower and smaller. Only the vals are really thriving. I do add extra potassium but it makes no difference. It might take some more time to fall off, then again conditions might still be such that it is still surviving well and choking the plants (more likely). wish I was more of an expert here. I'm telling you mostly what I've read in books. I've had a similar infestation. It stopped by adjusting light and increasing nutrients. But the old algae has not yet fallen off. Since there's a lot of new, good growth, and I've been wanting to revamp the aquascape anyway, I'm just going to rip out and replant. If you aren't doing CO2 injection I'd reduce surface agitation as much as possible and shorten the duration of light. Rather than waiting for it to fall off and vacuum it up, I'd just get rid of as much infested plant matter as possible. There are extreme ways of killing & removing algae with chemical soaks. But the infested plants are probably so sick it probably isn't going to work. I use Flourish Excel. I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization. At least I've been reading conflicting things. Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for certain plants? I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and re-do them. This is the busiest time of the year here. Isn't Murphy's law a bitch? From what I'm seeing a small fortune is almost inevitable as one goes up the learning curve. I'm finding it MUCH more expensive than fishkeeping. IMHO Aquatic gardening on a tight budget is like fish keeping with a small tank. More precision is required, it's harder to move forward, and mistakes have bigger consequences. Of course I'm trying to learn on the cheap as well I know what you mean. :-)) I may just give up and keep those that thrive without all the expensive supplements - the vals, hornwart, anubia, elodia, Java moss and a few slow-growing old crypts I've had for many years. I suppose I just wanted to see some NEW or different plants in the tanks. sounds like you had a good system. Maybe if you haven't given up on experimenting, a tank with mostly tried and true successful plants adding just a few new experimental plants might work better? Even if the experiments are having a rough time there are enough healthy plants to out compete algae. It may give you more leeway to either adjust conditions or decide it's not going to work/worth the effort. I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe others have reading recommendations that have helped them they can endorse? |
#10
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
Jolly wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:23:02 -0500, Köi-Lö ¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô wrote: snip Have you tried Barley Straw? It's supposed to be a cheap, safe algaecide. No, I haven't tried it. They don't sell it locally and it's out of sight online when they add S&H charges. I can't afford to try everything out there. I spent quite a bit on all the Sechem Flourish products and the effect wasn't long lasting. After the initial "boost," things went back to where they were. The plecos and otos are helping but the "black" stuff is still there. I've only seen the extract in 1 or 2 aquarium specialty shops locally (different state of course) and it's out of sight. True the shipping and handling of either a bale or the extract makes it absurd unless you are already ordering other things at the time. Well, I don't know about all of that. I'm pretty much a stupid **** who doesn't know a whole lot. Cleaner fish & snails will only eat the shorter forms of black brush algae. The longer forms react to CO2 and should detach after 2-3 months. The sooty algae stopped growing but by no means did it fall off or turn white as I expected it to do. The plecs and otos removed most if it. Then it was replaced by this black wiry looking stuff. Meanwhile the plants are looking pooped again. The Amazon swords have stopped growing and the leaves are getting narrower and smaller. Only the vals are really thriving. I do add extra potassium but it makes no difference. It might take some more time to fall off, then again conditions might still be such that it is still surviving well and choking the plants (more likely). Choking? Are you threatening me? I have big dogs, you know. wish I was more of an expert here. I'm telling you mostly what I've read in books. I've had a similar infestation. It stopped by adjusting light and increasing nutrients. But the old algae has not yet fallen off. Since there's a lot of new, good growth, and I've been wanting to revamp the aquascape anyway, I'm just going to rip out and replant. Rip out! I have notified Sgt. Pace. STALKER! If you aren't doing CO2 injection I'd reduce surface agitation as much as possible and shorten the duration of light. Rather than waiting for it to fall off and vacuum it up, I'd just get rid of as much infested plant matter as possible. There are extreme ways of killing & removing algae with chemical soaks. But the infested plants are probably so sick it probably isn't going to work. I use Flourish Excel. I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization. At least I've been reading conflicting things. Are you a completely stupid ****er, or what? Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for certain plants? I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and re-do them. This is the busiest time of the year here. Isn't Murphy's law a bitch? YOU ARE A BITCH! I don't appreciate your goddamned profanity, cocksucker. From what I'm seeing a small fortune is almost inevitable as one goes up the learning curve. I'm finding it MUCH more expensive than fishkeeping. IMHO Aquatic gardening on a tight budget is like fish keeping with a small tank. More precision is required, it's harder to move forward, and mistakes have bigger consequences. Of course I'm trying to learn on the cheap as well I know what you mean. :-)) I may just give up and keep those that thrive without all the expensive supplements - the vals, hornwart, anubia, elodia, Java moss and a few slow-growing old crypts I've had for many years. I suppose I just wanted to see some NEW or different plants in the tanks. sounds like you had a good system. Maybe if you haven't given up on experimenting, a tank with mostly tried and true successful plants adding just a few new experimental plants might work better? Even if the experiments are having a rough time there are enough healthy plants to out compete algae. It may give you more leeway to either adjust conditions or decide it's not going to work/worth the effort. You aren't worth the effort, so just **** off, asshole. I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe others have reading recommendations that have helped them they can endorse? -- Koi-Lo.... Frugal ponding since 1995. Aquariums since 1952. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 I do not post from Earthlink.net All rude and/or obscene messages posted in my name are by my impersonator. ~~~~ ((((* ~~~ {{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*} |
#11
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
~~~ "Jolly Fisherman" wrote in message ... On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:23:02 -0500, Köi-Lö ¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô wrote: No, I haven't tried it. They don't sell it locally and it's out of sight online when they add S&H charges. I can't afford to try everything out there. I spent quite a bit on all the Sechem Flourish products and the effect wasn't long lasting. After the initial "boost," things went back to where they were. The plecos and otos are helping but the "black" stuff is still there. I've only seen the extract in 1 or 2 aquarium specialty shops locally (different state of course) and it's out of sight. True the shipping and handling of either a bale or the extract makes it absurd unless you are already ordering other things at the time. It's just not worth the expense. I tried what was suggested here and that was enough expense for plants. :-) The plants that were doing well before all these supplements are still doing well, in fact have improved somewhat but all the new plants either failed or are failing despite the Seachem additives (micro-nutrients, Excel, iron etc) and extra light fixtures on the tanks. The sooty algae stopped growing but by no means did it fall off or turn white as I expected it to do. The plecs and otos removed most if it. Then it was replaced by this black wiry looking stuff. Meanwhile the plants are looking pooped again. The Amazon swords have stopped growing and the leaves are getting narrower and smaller. Only the vals are really thriving. I do add extra potassium but it makes no difference. It might take some more time to fall off, then again conditions might still be such that it is still surviving well and choking the plants (more likely). Well there is no way I can physically handle more vacuuming and partial water changes. I've improved the lighting and all the supplements plus bought the plecos and otos. I feel there isn't anything more I can do at this time. I took down a 10g tank this week and hope to eliminate another within a month. I also have two ponds out front and large 150g to 680g tanks (above ground pools) of fish out back. I'm starting to feel overwhelmed.... it's getting past being a hobby if you know what I mean. :-) If I don't cut back somewhere I'll be needing to hire a day laborer soon. I use Flourish Excel. I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization. At least I've been reading conflicting things. It's probably not but did perk up the plants, especially those that were doing ok to start with. Or maybe it was the micronutrients that made them a darker green. The frustrating thing is I ordered more of these products but then the effects wore off. I added extra potassium but that had no effect either. My sags are about dead and the Amazon swords look pretty shabby. Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for certain plants? I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and re-do them. This is the busiest time of the year here. Isn't Murphy's law a bitch? YES!!!! :-D LOL! I know what you mean. :-)) I may just give up and keep those that thrive without all the expensive supplements - the vals, hornwart, anubia, elodia, Java moss and a few slow-growing old crypts I've had for many years. I suppose I just wanted to see some NEW or different plants in the tanks. sounds like you had a good system. Maybe if you haven't given up on experimenting, a tank with mostly tried and true successful plants adding just a few new experimental plants might work better? That's kind of what I did. I added some "new" plants to cycled tanks that were set up about 3 months. That was last winter. The plants in these new setups (actually the tanks had been in an outbuilding for a few years) had plants from a few established 10gs to get them started off. Then I bough some new and different plants to experiment with for a change-of-scenery. Shortly afterward the black sooty algae reared it's ugly head and from there it's history. Expensive supplements, Excel, serious gravel vacuuming, water changes and more water changes, more lighting..... Oddly the water wisteria is thriving in a 10g and has wasted away in the 55s. A small ASword is doing ok in a 10g but the ones in the 55s will be gone soon I'm sure. Even if the experiments are having a rough time there are enough healthy plants to out compete algae. It may give you more leeway to either adjust conditions or decide it's not going to work/worth the effort. Some that are failing are not covered in algae. Since I stopped feeding the plecs the algae tabs they did remove some of the wiry algae and this evening I noticed the plants are "cleaner" if that's the word that fits. After all is said and done I think I'll stick with the "tried and true" as you call them. :-) -- KL.... Aquariums since 1952. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 *Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups. ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
#12
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
Jolly Fisherman wrote in
: I've only seen the extract in 1 or 2 aquarium specialty shops locally (different state of course) and it's out of sight. True the shipping We sell Barley & Peat Extract and it is right up front near the cash on display--it is pond season after all. It might take some more time to fall off, then again conditions might still be such that it is still surviving well and choking the plants (more likely). The alga doesn't actually "react to CO2," it just gives your plants the edge in competing for the available nutrients. I use Flourish Excel. I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization. At least I've been reading conflicting things. Seachem's Flourish Excel is not carbon dioxide; it is an organic carbon compound (primarily polycycloglutaracetal) which serves the same function for plants. It skips an intermediate step filled by CO2 in the process of photosynthesis to provide plants what they need to produce long chain carbon compounds. When you use Excel, plants don't need to use CO2 to photosynthesize. I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe others have reading recommendations that have helped them they can endorse? This is a good book--I sold a copy to a customer today, but if it is the one I am thinking of it mainly tackles problems with marine algae. While the conditions for avoiding algae in both situations are very similar, there are some options available to you in fresh that are not in salt and vice versa. |
#13
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
wrote:
Jolly Fisherman wrote in : I've only seen the extract in 1 or 2 aquarium specialty shops locally (different state of course) and it's out of sight. True the shipping We sell Barley & Peat Extract and it is right up front near the cash on display--it is pond season after all. ****ing liar. You're on welfare just like me. It might take some more time to fall off, then again conditions might still be such that it is still surviving well and choking the plants (more likely). The alga doesn't actually "react to CO2," it just gives your plants the edge in competing for the available nutrients. How ****ing stupid are you anyway? Idiot. SNIP boring redundant post -- Koi-Lo.... Frugal ponding since 1995. Aquariums since 1952. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 I do not post from Earthlink.net All rude and/or obscene messages posted in my name are by my impersonator. ~~~~ ((((* ~~~ {{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*} |
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:48:04 -0500, dc wrote:
Jolly Fisherman wrote in : I've only seen the extract in 1 or 2 aquarium specialty shops locally (different state of course) and it's out of sight. True the shipping We sell Barley & Peat Extract and it is right up front near the cash on display--it is pond season after all. Where is your shop? It might take some more time to fall off, then again conditions might still be such that it is still surviving well and choking the plants (more likely). The alga doesn't actually "react to CO2," it just gives your plants the edge in competing for the available nutrients. What you're saying makes sense as that's how it generally works. Actually I was almost directly quoting the Baensch Aquarium Atlas vol 2 under "Black Brush Algae." They stressed the importance of CO2 for control of Black Brush Algae but not other types. So it seemed to me like there was more to CO2 than just helping the plants to grow & out compete the algae. But I may be putting too much weight on poor wording in the book. I use Flourish Excel. I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization. At least I've been reading conflicting things. Seachem's Flourish Excel is not carbon dioxide; it is an organic carbon compound (primarily polycycloglutaracetal) which serves the same function for plants. It skips an intermediate step filled by CO2 in the process of photosynthesis to provide plants what they need to produce long chain carbon compounds. When you use Excel, plants don't need to use CO2 to photosynthesize. Yes they are supposed to achieve the same thing but AFAIk they are not really exact functional equivalents. AFAIK Polycycloglutaracetal is a proprietary compound that is claimed to be similar but not identical to natural Photosynthetic intermediates. I don't think it's well known what exactly Polycycloglutaracetal is or even if it actually is, in fact, directly taken up by the plants or if there is a more indirect fertilization process at work. Even by Seachem's admission "CO2 by itself will give you quantitatively more growth than Excel by itself." I just ordered "Algae: A problem Solver Guide" - Sprung. Maybe others have reading recommendations that have helped them they can endorse? This is a good book--I sold a copy to a customer today, but if it is the one I am thinking of it mainly tackles problems with marine algae. While the conditions for avoiding algae in both situations are very similar, there are some options available to you in fresh that are not in salt and vice versa. Just got it in yesterday. I'm disappointed that it indeed mostly deals with marine issues. An OK read anyway. |
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Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:08:06 -0500, Köi-Lö ¤1¤ôx@ôÜ1Ô.ôôô wrote:
snip but all the new plants either failed or are failing despite the Seachem additives (micro-nutrients, Excel, iron etc) and extra light fixtures on the tanks. Perhaps its too much light? snip Well there is no way I can physically handle more vacuuming and partial water changes. I'm not suggesting that. I've improved the lighting and all the supplements plus bought the plecos and otos. I feel there isn't anything more I can do at this time. It still seems the plants aren't getting exactly what they need- missing nutrients (despite best efforts), too much light, etc. Are the plants showing particular deficiencies or calcification? snip I use Flourish Excel. I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization. At least I've been reading conflicting things. It's probably not but did perk up the plants, especially those that were doing ok to start with. Or maybe it was the micronutrients that made them a darker green. The frustrating thing is I ordered more of these products but then the effects wore off. I added extra potassium but that had no effect either. My sags are about dead and the Amazon swords look pretty shabby. I believe the main ingredient of Excel is Polycycloglutaracetal an isomeric form of glutaraldehyde, a very powerful disinfectant. Seachem claims it is less reactive and more easily utilized by plants as a carbon source. However one wonders if it has some algaecidal properties. It is dangerous to aquatic life if overdosed. Frankly I'm not excited about even handling water that has been treated with Excel. The iron in flourish is bound to gluconate, a carbohydrate. Seachem claims this is an additional carbon source. It would seem it is also accessible to bacteria and converted to sugars & CO2. Basically these types of nutrients are beneficial to plants, but it's easy to miss key nutrients or for them no not be as effective or exactly as advertised IMHO. Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for certain plants? I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and re-do them. This is the busiest time of the year here. Take a look at: http://www.plantguild.com/html/spot_fertilization.html http://www.plantguild.com/html/subst...etrofiter.html snip That's kind of what I did. I added some "new" plants to cycled tanks that were set up about 3 months. That was last winter. The plants in these new setups (actually the tanks had been in an outbuilding for a few years) had plants from a few established 10gs to get them started off. Then I bough some new and different plants to experiment with for a change-of-scenery. Shortly afterward the black sooty algae reared it's ugly head and from there it's history. These were already cycled tanks (without plants). Perhaps biobugs are out competing the plants as well. Expensive supplements, Excel, serious gravel vacuuming, water changes and more water changes, more lighting..... Oddly the water wisteria is thriving in a 10g and has wasted away in the 55s. A small ASword is doing ok in a 10g but the ones in the 55s will be gone soon I'm sure. It might be damaged by such strong light with no real CO2. Even if the experiments are having a rough time there are enough healthy plants to out compete algae. It may give you more leeway to either adjust conditions or decide it's not going to work/worth the effort. Some that are failing are not covered in algae. Since I stopped feeding the plecs the algae tabs they did remove some of the wiry algae and this evening I noticed the plants are "cleaner" if that's the word that fits. After all is said and done I think I'll stick with the "tried and true" as you call them. :-) _how_ they are failing might give you useful information- if you still care. |
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