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#16
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75 or 90 for planted?
Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting would
I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it. You do anything -- metal halide, flourescent, PCF. 3 wpg is a lot of light for a tank this size -- more than it would be for a smaller tank. Many people find 2 wpg is more than enough for a tank over 100 gallons. Make sure your CO2 system is up and running before you turn all that light on! PCFs from AH Supply would work well and be pretty easy, but if it were my tank, I think I'd go with regular flourescent lights. It would be cheaper, and you'd have more flexibility that way. If you wanted to start out with less light until you get more experience, you could, just by leaving a few tubes out. If you need to reduce the lighting for some reason (going to be away from the tank on vacation, say), you could. You could create sunrise and sunset effects, by putting different tubes on different timers. You could replace a few tubes with "moonlight" bulbs, and be able to watch your tank at night. Etc. Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#17
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75 or 90 for planted?
I have seven 55 watt CF lamps over my 135 gallon, which is just a bit
taller than the standard 125 gallon size, but which shares the same footprint. I have two all-glass fixtures that are 36 inches long, and another three AH supply style kit lamps that are each 24 inches in length. The All-glass fixtures, which I like a lot by the way, have two lamps per fixture. I was able to get by with 220 watts -- the two All-glass fixtures alone-- for the first year. I found that I needed more light as the tank grew, as they say, shade happens! I think I have about the right amount of light currently. I assume four 96 watt lamps would do well for you in your tank. You may wish to use only two or three of them initially, two lamps down the center of the tank or two lamps towards the rear and 1 lamp as a second row in front centered with respect to the rear two lamps. As plants grow in, you could then put in all four. If you put one lamp in the front, centered on the tank, you may want to put square dowels down on either side of it to elevate the lamp cabinet slightly off the glass (that I assume you will have), since it may teeter otherwise. The other lamps will probably match up with the standard plastic supports supplied on most tanks. Eventually, my guess is you will want all four 96 watt lamps-- though you may be able to get by with less. I did for a year. Congratulations on your new purchase. (I wish I had time for another couple of large tanks!) -Bruce Geist Dustin wrote in message ... Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting would I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it. That is alot of watts, but should I go with ahsupply's compact florescent, or just the regular 4 or 6 ft shop type florescent? Im excited haha Thanks Everyone for your input "LeighMo" wrote in message ... I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs, Congratulations! A 125 is a nice size for plants, IMO. Six feet long, 18" wide, just under 2 feet deep. With this size, you can use just about any lighting you want. Though, price-wise, flourescent tubes might make the most sense. Are you getting a compressed CO2 system for the tank, too? If not, it's probably best to keep your lighting levels down at around 2 wpg. 125 gallon is sort of large for DIY! Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#18
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75 or 90 for planted?
Bruce,
Thank You for the advice, do you have any pictures of your tank? or a website? I think ill take your advice and go with 4 - 96w setups from ahsupply, 2 - 5000k 2 - 6500k and use only two to begin with. Why is it so important to have the co2 in with the higher watts? Is there any website that talks about this? or did i miss this info at the krib? "Bruce Geist" wrote in message ... I have seven 55 watt CF lamps over my 135 gallon, which is just a bit taller than the standard 125 gallon size, but which shares the same footprint. I have two all-glass fixtures that are 36 inches long, and another three AH supply style kit lamps that are each 24 inches in length. The All-glass fixtures, which I like a lot by the way, have two lamps per fixture. I was able to get by with 220 watts -- the two All-glass fixtures alone-- for the first year. I found that I needed more light as the tank grew, as they say, shade happens! I think I have about the right amount of light currently. I assume four 96 watt lamps would do well for you in your tank. You may wish to use only two or three of them initially, two lamps down the center of the tank or two lamps towards the rear and 1 lamp as a second row in front centered with respect to the rear two lamps. As plants grow in, you could then put in all four. If you put one lamp in the front, centered on the tank, you may want to put square dowels down on either side of it to elevate the lamp cabinet slightly off the glass (that I assume you will have), since it may teeter otherwise. The other lamps will probably match up with the standard plastic supports supplied on most tanks. Eventually, my guess is you will want all four 96 watt lamps-- though you may be able to get by with less. I did for a year. Congratulations on your new purchase. (I wish I had time for another couple of large tanks!) -Bruce Geist Dustin wrote in message ... Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting would I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it. That is alot of watts, but should I go with ahsupply's compact florescent, or just the regular 4 or 6 ft shop type florescent? Im excited haha Thanks Everyone for your input "LeighMo" wrote in message ... I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs, Congratulations! A 125 is a nice size for plants, IMO. Six feet long, 18" wide, just under 2 feet deep. With this size, you can use just about any lighting you want. Though, price-wise, flourescent tubes might make the most sense. Are you getting a compressed CO2 system for the tank, too? If not, it's probably best to keep your lighting levels down at around 2 wpg. 125 gallon is sort of large for DIY! Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#19
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75 or 90 for planted?
Why is it so important to have the co2 in with the higher watts?
You need to have a balance: light, fertilizer, CO2. Increase one, and you must increase the others, too, or plants won't grow well and algae will take over (because of the extra light & nutrients the plants aren't using). In addition, a high-light tank without CO2 injection can suffer large daily swings in pH, as the plants strip the CO2 they need out of the water during the day, then release CO2 back into the water at night. Here are a couple of links at the Krib: http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/balance-randall.html http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/decalcification.html Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#20
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75 or 90 for planted?
Dustin,
I put a couple of pictures of my tank on the following page. http://hometown.aol.com/brucekgeist/...e/profile.html Thanks for your interest. -Bruce Geist PS: I agree with Leigh's post on getting all the plant nutrients in balance from the start. Otherwise, you will grow a lot of algae. If you have not already, take a look at Chuck Gadd's web site-- its a really great resource. I followed his advise for starting a new tank a couple of years back now. Here is a link to his site-- its really terrific. You will find a nice article on starting a new aquarium there, along with the rational Leigh presented for getting things in balance right away. Here is Chuck's site: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/ -Bruce Dustin wrote in message ... Bruce, Thank You for the advice, do you have any pictures of your tank? or a website? I think ill take your advice and go with 4 - 96w setups from ahsupply, 2 - 5000k 2 - 6500k and use only two to begin with. Why is it so important to have the co2 in with the higher watts? Is there any website that talks about this? or did i miss this info at the krib? "Bruce Geist" wrote in message ... I have seven 55 watt CF lamps over my 135 gallon, which is just a bit taller than the standard 125 gallon size, but which shares the same footprint. I have two all-glass fixtures that are 36 inches long, and another three AH supply style kit lamps that are each 24 inches in length. The All-glass fixtures, which I like a lot by the way, have two lamps per fixture. I was able to get by with 220 watts -- the two All-glass fixtures alone-- for the first year. I found that I needed more light as the tank grew, as they say, shade happens! I think I have about the right amount of light currently. I assume four 96 watt lamps would do well for you in your tank. You may wish to use only two or three of them initially, two lamps down the center of the tank or two lamps towards the rear and 1 lamp as a second row in front centered with respect to the rear two lamps. As plants grow in, you could then put in all four. If you put one lamp in the front, centered on the tank, you may want to put square dowels down on either side of it to elevate the lamp cabinet slightly off the glass (that I assume you will have), since it may teeter otherwise. The other lamps will probably match up with the standard plastic supports supplied on most tanks. Eventually, my guess is you will want all four 96 watt lamps-- though you may be able to get by with less. I did for a year. Congratulations on your new purchase. (I wish I had time for another couple of large tanks!) -Bruce Geist Dustin wrote in message ... Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting would I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it. That is alot of watts, but should I go with ahsupply's compact florescent, or just the regular 4 or 6 ft shop type florescent? Im excited haha Thanks Everyone for your input "LeighMo" wrote in message ... I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs, Congratulations! A 125 is a nice size for plants, IMO. Six feet long, 18" wide, just under 2 feet deep. With this size, you can use just about any lighting you want. Though, price-wise, flourescent tubes might make the most sense. Are you getting a compressed CO2 system for the tank, too? If not, it's probably best to keep your lighting levels down at around 2 wpg. 125 gallon is sort of large for DIY! Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#21
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75 or 90 for planted?
Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants:67511
Thanks Leigh! I ordered a Co2 System from David Gomberg today I appreciate all the words of wisdom! Happy New Year! "LeighMo" wrote in message ... Why is it so important to have the co2 in with the higher watts? You need to have a balance: light, fertilizer, CO2. Increase one, and you must increase the others, too, or plants won't grow well and algae will take over (because of the extra light & nutrients the plants aren't using). In addition, a high-light tank without CO2 injection can suffer large daily swings in pH, as the plants strip the CO2 they need out of the water during the day, then release CO2 back into the water at night. Here are a couple of links at the Krib: http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/balance-randall.html http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/decalcification.html Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#22
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75 or 90 for planted?
On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:41:30 -0800, "Dustin"
wrote: Thanks Leigh! I ordered a Co2 System from David Gomberg today I appreciate all the words of wisdom! Happy New Year! Hmm..... which system did you buy? I hope it was not the high pressure system. Go here to see why http://www.aquabotanic.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2272 And IMHO his prices are way too high for what you get. You could head on over to www.kegworks.com and get a good regulator for $51, you can build your own reactor and bubble counter, and you can get a good needle valve for under $20. And you would be set except for the tank. |
#23
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75 or 90 for planted?
THanks for the input Cannibul, that I did buy that system. Wish I hadnt
know, maybe I can get a refund.... I dont like the idea of loosing all the fish...... was it because he didnt have a needle valve, or because the product is junk? Thanks, Dustin "Cannibul" wrote in message ... On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:41:30 -0800, "Dustin" wrote: Thanks Leigh! I ordered a Co2 System from David Gomberg today I appreciate all the words of wisdom! Happy New Year! Hmm..... which system did you buy? I hope it was not the high pressure system. Go here to see why http://www.aquabotanic.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2272 And IMHO his prices are way too high for what you get. You could head on over to www.kegworks.com and get a good regulator for $51, you can build your own reactor and bubble counter, and you can get a good needle valve for under $20. And you would be set except for the tank. |
#24
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75 or 90 for planted?
THanks for the input Cannibul, that I did buy that system. Wish I hadnt
know, maybe I can get a refund.... I dont like the idea of loosing all the fish...... was it because he didnt have a needle valve, or because the product is junk? Did you get the needle valve? Adding a needle valve makes it a "low-pressure" system. I think that's what most of us who use compress CO2 use. You always have to watch out for "CO2 dump" when the tank gets empty. When you see the pressure gauge starting to drop, it's time for a refill. Don't try to save a penny or two by getting every last molecule of CO2 out of the cylinder. If you don't have time, turn off the CO2 at the tank valve. Better no CO2 for a little while than a CO2 dump. As for the price...yes, if money is an issue, you can rustle up your own system for cheaper. But a lot of people find compressed gas very intimidating. They don't know what to get, or how to hook it up. It's worth it, for many people, to pay a little extra to get a complete system, along with directions for putting it together and "tech support" if you have problems. Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
#25
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75 or 90 for planted?
LeighMo wrote:
As for the price...yes, if money is an issue, you can rustle up your own system for cheaper. But a lot of people find compressed gas very intimidating. They don't know what to get, or how to hook it up. It's worth it, for many people, to pay a little extra to get a complete system, along with directions for putting it together and "tech support" if you have problems. I purchased one of these systems in July (inc. needle valve), and have been more than pleased with it on my 29 gallon tank. I was willing to spend a few extra bucks for someone else to figure out all of the various fitting sizes etc. and save a day of driving from welding shop to welding shop. YMMV. |
#26
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75 or 90 for planted?
How much should I expect to spend on "real" CO2 equipment for my 180 gallon?
I've been using DIY on my smaller tanks and just using the big one as a nursery because I couldn't bear the though of a) figuring out how to hook up and maintain seven or eight soda bottles, or b) spending real money. kush "You can't have everything - where would you put it?" Andrew Roberts wrote in message .. . LeighMo wrote: As for the price...yes, if money is an issue, you can rustle up your own system for cheaper. But a lot of people find compressed gas very intimidating. They don't know what to get, or how to hook it up. It's worth it, for many people, to pay a little extra to get a complete system, along with directions for putting it together and "tech support" if you have problems. I purchased one of these systems in July (inc. needle valve), and have been more than pleased with it on my 29 gallon tank. I was willing to spend a few extra bucks for someone else to figure out all of the various fitting sizes etc. and save a day of driving from welding shop to welding shop. YMMV. |
#27
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75 or 90 for planted?
On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:06:08 GMT, "kush"
wrote: How much should I expect to spend on "real" CO2 equipment for my 180 gallon? I've been using DIY on my smaller tanks and just using the big one as a nursery because I couldn't bear the though of a) figuring out how to hook up and maintain seven or eight soda bottles, or b) spending real money. $100 if you are really good at shopping around and looking for bargins. $150 if not. A decent CO2 regulator can be found at almost ANY time on ebay for $30-40. Here's one (I don't know the seller, just giving an example) on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=3102858 289 This is the EXACT same regulator I'm using, and the one Dave Gomberg sells (or at least sold me) for $75 or so... A CO2 tank should cost you no more than $50.00 or so from your local gas supplier or welding supply store. A needle valve can be purchased new for $20.00. I got mine from Marine Monsters, but I've heard they are having some trouble. If this is still the case, I know I've seen several other places selling needle valves for about the same price. I know Robert over at Aquabotanic sells one for $18.00 A reactor can be made cheap using a small powerhead and a gravel vac tube. Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
#28
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75 or 90 for planted?
On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 02:58:26 -0800, "Dustin"
wrote: THanks for the input Cannibul, that I did buy that system. Wish I hadnt know, maybe I can get a refund.... I dont like the idea of loosing all the fish...... was it because he didnt have a needle valve, or because the product is junk? The product is perfectly fine. The problem is that the system doesn't use a needle valve. But even without a needle valve, the system is SAFE, and works fine. The issue is what is known as an "end of tank dump". Co2 regulators are intended to operate with a tank pressure of 800-2000 psi (CO2 pressure will never get that high, it's usually around 800-1000psi). On the regulator, the high pressure gauge is marked in red from 0-600psi. This is because, when the CO2 runs out, the tank pressure drops down. The regulator is unable to properly regulate when the tank pressure is very low. In theory, anything below 600psi is a problem. In practice, I've run my regulator (from Dave Gomberg) down to 300-400psi with no "dump". But in any case, once the pressure drops below the regulators minimum, the regulator looses the ability to regulate the output properly, and the output pressure will rise. Since with the "high pressure system" the pressure directly controls the bubble rate, this rising output pressure results in a CO2 overdose. At the extreme end, the regulator can completely loose control when the tank pressure drops very far. At that point, it would vent all the remaining CO2 in a sudden burst. For all of these cases, simply adding a needle valve will provide a safety net. But, if you keep an eye on the tank pressure, it's easy to notice BEFORE the tank pressure drops very far. Unlike watching your car's gas gauge, the CO2 pressure will remain constant (around 800-1000psi depending on the temp) until the tank is 99% empty. When the CO2 tank is filled, the CO2 is under pressure, and is in a liquid form. As long as ANY liquid CO2 remains in the tank, the pressure stays at that 800-1000psi. Once all the liquid is gone, the pressure will start to drop. On my tank, with a fairly high CO2 flow rate, I would get about a week from the time the pressure first started to drop, till it reached the 600psi mark. So even without a needle-valve, if you glance at the CO2 pressure once every few days, you will see it in time to prevent a problem. On my system, with a needle-valve, I intentionally let the pressure drop all the way down. I run the regulator pressure at about 6psi normally, and then control the bubble rate with the needle-valve. I usually have a bubble rate around 2-3 bubble per second. As the tank pressure dropped below 300psi, the output pressure rose up slowly to about 15-20psi. I never saw a true "end of tank dump" with a big spike in output pressure. And the bubble rate (because of the needle valve) didn't increase much, less than 1 extra bubble per second. Possibly a bigger issue with the Dave Gomberg high pressure system, if it's the same as when I bought mine several years ago, is that the tiny little Eheim diffusor isn't very effective in large tanks. In my 75g, I was unable to get acceptable CO2 levels using it. I ditched the eheim diffusor, added a needle-valve, and built my DIY reactor, and I've been very happy ever since. Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
#29
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75 or 90 for planted?
Thanks. Can you come over to my house and put it all together? I'll go out
to a movie or something because I don't like swearing - at least, not listening to other people do it. Chuck Gadd wrote in message ... On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:06:08 GMT, "kush" wrote: How much should I expect to spend on "real" CO2 equipment for my 180 gallon? I've been using DIY on my smaller tanks and just using the big one as a nursery because I couldn't bear the though of a) figuring out how to hook up and maintain seven or eight soda bottles, or b) spending real money. $100 if you are really good at shopping around and looking for bargins. $150 if not. A decent CO2 regulator can be found at almost ANY time on ebay for $30-40. Here's one (I don't know the seller, just giving an example) on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=3102858 289 This is the EXACT same regulator I'm using, and the one Dave Gomberg sells (or at least sold me) for $75 or so... A CO2 tank should cost you no more than $50.00 or so from your local gas supplier or welding supply store. A needle valve can be purchased new for $20.00. I got mine from Marine Monsters, but I've heard they are having some trouble. If this is still the case, I know I've seen several other places selling needle valves for about the same price. I know Robert over at Aquabotanic sells one for $18.00 A reactor can be made cheap using a small powerhead and a gravel vac tube. Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
#30
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75 or 90 for planted?
On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 20:17:31 GMT, "kush"
wrote: Thanks. Can you come over to my house and put it all together? I'll go out If you lived close enough, I would! to a movie or something because I don't like swearing - at least, not listening to other people do it. The only part that really involved any swearing for me was finding tiny little adapters to fit my needle valve to the regulator. Many of the needle-valves I've seen lately just have hose-barb fittings on both ends, and most reactors come with hose-barb fittings, so it's pretty easy. Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
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