OK, It's a moderately nice January day and I finished pruning the apple
trees. Looks like it's going to be a great year for apples but I need to
know the what, when, where, and how much of spraying apples trees to fend
off both predator and disease!

Any advice, references, etc???

Ron H.
West Central Wisconsin

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 14:40:12 -0600, "Ron H" wrote:

OK, It's a moderately nice January day and I finished pruning the apple
trees. Looks like it's going to be a great year for apples but I need to
know the what, when, where, and how much of spraying apples trees to fend
off both predator and disease!

Any advice, references, etc???

Ron H.
West Central Wisconsin


Piggy-backing on Ron's question, I've always heard that apples are THE
most sprayed of all crops, and that one should avoid the seeds and
peel at the very least. And preferably eat organic apples.

Is this true about the spraying? Does it apply only to large
commercial orchards (maybe Ron's IS a l.c.o.).

Looking forward to the wisdom of Those Who Know.

Persephone


--

A king can stand people fighting but
he can't last long if people start
thinking.

Will Rogers

Persephone wrote in message ...
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 14:40:12 -0600, "Ron H" wrote:

OK, It's a moderately nice January day and I finished pruning the apple
trees. Looks like it's going to be a great year for apples but I need to
know the what, when, where, and how much of spraying apples trees to fend
off both predator and disease!

Any advice, references, etc???

Ron H.
West Central Wisconsin


Piggy-backing on Ron's question, I've always heard that apples are THE
most sprayed of all crops, and that one should avoid the seeds and
peel at the very least. And preferably eat organic apples.

Is this true about the spraying? Does it apply only to large
commercial orchards (maybe Ron's IS a l.c.o.).

Looking forward to the wisdom of Those Who Know.

Report Card: Pesticides in Produce
http://www.foodnews.org/reportcard.php
"...peaches leading the list, then strawberries, apples and nectarines."

Pesticides in Apples
http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR20N01&
Pesticides were found on 91 percent of the apples tested.
There were 36 pesticides found on apples:


12 Most Contaminated
Buy These Organic

.. Apples
.. Bell Peppers
.. Celery
.. Cherries
.. Imported Grapes
.. Nectarines
.. Peaches
.. Pears
.. Potatoes
.. Red Raspberries
.. Spinach
.. Strawberries

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

Persephone wrote in message ...
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 14:40:12 -0600, "Ron H" wrote:

OK, It's a moderately nice January day and I finished pruning the apple
trees. Looks like it's going to be a great year for apples but I need to
know the what, when, where, and how much of spraying apples trees to
fend
off both predator and disease!

Any advice, references, etc???

Ron H.
West Central Wisconsin


Piggy-backing on Ron's question, I've always heard that apples are THE
most sprayed of all crops, and that one should avoid the seeds and
peel at the very least. And preferably eat organic apples.

Is this true about the spraying? Does it apply only to large
commercial orchards (maybe Ron's IS a l.c.o.).

Looking forward to the wisdom of Those Who Know.

Report Card: Pesticides in Produce
http://www.foodnews.org/reportcard.php
"...peaches leading the list, then strawberries, apples and nectarines."

Pesticides in Apples
http://www.foodnews.org/highpest.php?prod=PFR20N01&
Pesticides were found on 91 percent of the apples tested.
There were 36 pesticides found on apples:


12 Most Contaminated
Buy These Organic

. Apples
. Bell Peppers
. Celery
. Cherries
. Imported Grapes
. Nectarines
. Peaches
. Pears
. Potatoes
. Red Raspberries
. Spinach
. Strawberries



Or, grow some of them yourself, if possible. In my garden (upstate NY), I've
never had any reason to spray peppers, potatoes, raspberries, spinach or
strawberries. They all turn out flawless. Climate is a factor, as is the
time of year the crops are grown, relative to the life cycle of certain
pests.

You have to spray them prior to bloom, during bloom, and each week after
bloom for a couple of months. If I understand that right, that is just for
the worm that goes to the core. Then you have apple maggots that come later
and probably something else.

You can also put traps in your trees to get a lot of them. Some have a
sweet liquid to draw the bugs in and then they drown. Another is covered
with sticky stuff and when the bugs get on it, then they cant get off.

Gardens Alive has a good line of stuff for sale. I have bought from them
but cant vouch for everything they have.

I get apples and pears from trees that have not been sprayed and cut out the
worms.

Dwayne

"Ron H" wrote in message
...
OK, It's a moderately nice January day and I finished pruning the apple
trees. Looks like it's going to be a great year for apples but I need to
know the what, when, where, and how much of spraying apples trees to fend
off both predator and disease!

Any advice, references, etc???

Ron H.
West Central Wisconsin

Hi Ron,
It would be a bit helpful to know where you are located, but not critical
to this
issue. The first line of defense would be a spraying of dormant oil. This
will smother
the eggs of the insects before they emerge. Pick a dry spell and reasonably
warm
days above freezing, to apply. Add a 'sticker' for retention. Too early and
you may
lose some effect from the washing away of the oil, and too late might miss
the
emergence of the insects from their eggs.
I would follow up with spraying with fungicide in the Spring. You can
add a pesticide to this after the petals fall from the blossoms, to avoid
killing any friendly
pollinator insects like bees. After this, follow up with periodic spraying
every few
weeks, to harvest. I would recommend a general orchard spray for this later
spraying.
If you find you have some really nasty bugs or fungus problems, you may have
to change the sprays to something stronger and more specific. This sounds
kind of nebulous, but you need to figure out what kinds of bugs and fungus
are attacking your trees. You can check with your local Extension Services
for assistance, if normal measures don't work.
Be sure and wear a breather mask, cover all exposed skin, goggles over the
eyes, and wash up good afterwards, when using the chemicals.

Sherwin D.

Ron H wrote:

OK, It's a moderately nice January day and I finished pruning the apple
trees. Looks like it's going to be a great year for apples but I need to
know the what, when, where, and how much of spraying apples trees to fend
off both predator and disease!

Any advice, references, etc???

Ron H.
West Central Wisconsin

Just noticed you are in Central Wisconsin. You can start the dormant oil on
some nice
day in March or April. Hopefully, the temperatures will have moderated, by
then.

Sherwin D.

Hi Persephone,

Apple growers seem to be divided into two camps, organic and the rest of
us. I am
not a strict organic guy. I have seen the results of other hobbyist apple
growers, who try to be organic, and I find the results disappointing. They
are content with losing a portion of their crop, whereas, I want to preserve
as much as I can. I use a combination of spraying and organic methods (sticky
balls, traps, etc.). In my area,
these organic methods are not enough to fully protect the fruit. I don't feel
my health
is endangered by spraying, when using certain precautions. One is to stop
spraying a few weeks before harvest to give the sun time to burn off the
chemicals and the wind
and rain to do a similar job. As a secondary precaution, I wash all my fruit
with a mild
soap solution. Do I remove the chemicals 100 per cent? Probably not, but the
residue
is very small. The chemicals do not penetrate the skin, so if it still of
concern, you can peel the skin off before eating.

I never buy store apples, but for them, I would certainly take the second and
third steps. I don't trust the 'organic' label on apples. I suspect some of
them may be sprayed occasionally with chemicals, if a farmer is in danger of
losing his crop.

The seeds are not susceptable to spray contamination, and besides, who eats
them
anyways?

Sherwin D.

Persephone wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 14:40:12 -0600, "Ron H" wrote:

OK, It's a moderately nice January day and I finished pruning the apple
trees. Looks like it's going to be a great year for apples but I need to
know the what, when, where, and how much of spraying apples trees to fend
off both predator and disease!

Any advice, references, etc???

Ron H.
West Central Wisconsin


Piggy-backing on Ron's question, I've always heard that apples are THE
most sprayed of all crops, and that one should avoid the seeds and
peel at the very least. And preferably eat organic apples.

Is this true about the spraying? Does it apply only to large
commercial orchards (maybe Ron's IS a l.c.o.).

Looking forward to the wisdom of Those Who Know.

Persephone

--

A king can stand people fighting but
he can't last long if people start
thinking.

Will Rogers

Dwayne wrote:

You have to spray them prior to bloom, during bloom, and each week after
bloom for a couple of months.

Each week may be a bit of overkill. You can stretch it out to two or three
weeks,
but it depends on how badly the trees are being attacked. For certain
pests, there
is a critical time to kill them, and that would be the period to hit them
hard. For just
general maintenance and protection, you can let it slide, a bit. Don't wait
too long
though, as you may miss the entry of something nasty that you weren't
expecting
and miss the window to stop it.

If I understand that right, that is just for
the worm that goes to the core. Then you have apple maggots that come later
and probably something else.

You can also put traps in your trees to get a lot of them. Some have a
sweet liquid to draw the bugs in and then they drown. Another is covered
with sticky stuff and when the bugs get on it, then they cant get off.

Gardens Alive has a good line of stuff for sale. I have bought from them
but cant vouch for everything they have.

I have given up on the pheramone traps from Garden's Alive because the lures
are too expensive, and I don't find them any more effective than sticky
balls.



I get apples and pears from trees that have not been sprayed and cut out the
worms.

That works fine if you are the only consumer, but you don't want to give away

any damaged apples to your friends and neighbors. Reminds me of the old
saying
that what is worse than finding a worm in an apple? Answer: not finding it.

Sherwin D.



Dwayne

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...

Reminds me of the old
saying
that what is worse than finding a worm in an apple? Answer: not finding
it.


The one I heard goes:

What is worse than finding a worm in an apple when you bite into it?

Answer: Half a worm.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...

Hi Persephone,

Apple growers seem to be divided into two camps, organic and the rest
of
us. I am
not a strict organic guy. I have seen the results of other hobbyist
apple
growers, who try to be organic, and I find the results disappointing.
They
are content with losing a portion of their crop, whereas, I want to
preserve
as much as I can. I use a combination of spraying and organic methods
(sticky
balls, traps, etc.). In my area,
these organic methods are not enough to fully protect the fruit. I don't
feel
my health
is endangered by spraying, when using certain precautions.
One is to stop
spraying a few weeks before harvest to give the sun time to burn off the
chemicals and the wind
and rain to do a similar job. As a secondary precaution, I wash all my
fruit
with a mild
soap solution. Do I remove the chemicals 100 per cent? Probably not, but
the
residue
is very small. The chemicals do not penetrate the skin, so if it still of
concern, you can peel the skin off before eating.

I don't know what you spray with, but as the web sites indicate, some
products are systemic, so you can wash your apples all day long and you
won't get rid of those chemicals. And, sun, wind & rain won't do a thing,
either.

I don't grow fruit trees, but I seem to recall reading about the idea of
using a material similar to floating row cover to completely wrap dwarf
trees. Obviously, this won't address fungus problems, but it should
certainly help with some of the bugs. Have you explored this idea?

Right Lawrence. Yours is probably the correct one, but my memory failed me.

Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...

Reminds me of the old
saying
that what is worse than finding a worm in an apple? Answer: not finding
it.


The one I heard goes:

What is worse than finding a worm in an apple when you bite into it?

Answer: Half a worm.

Doug Kanter wrote:

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...

Hi Persephone,

Apple growers seem to be divided into two camps, organic and the rest
of
us. I am
not a strict organic guy. I have seen the results of other hobbyist
apple
growers, who try to be organic, and I find the results disappointing.
They
are content with losing a portion of their crop, whereas, I want to
preserve
as much as I can. I use a combination of spraying and organic methods
(sticky
balls, traps, etc.). In my area,
these organic methods are not enough to fully protect the fruit. I don't
feel
my health
is endangered by spraying, when using certain precautions.
One is to stop
spraying a few weeks before harvest to give the sun time to burn off the
chemicals and the wind
and rain to do a similar job. As a secondary precaution, I wash all my
fruit
with a mild
soap solution. Do I remove the chemicals 100 per cent? Probably not, but
the
residue
is very small. The chemicals do not penetrate the skin, so if it still of
concern, you can peel the skin off before eating.

I don't know what you spray with, but as the web sites indicate, some
products are systemic, so you can wash your apples all day long and you
won't get rid of those chemicals. And, sun, wind & rain won't do a thing,
either.

You are definitely wrong about the sun, wind, & rain. It's a question of
quantity,
and I specifically said that the residue remaining would not be
significant. We
ingest much more junk into our bodies by just breathing our poluted air. If
you
wanted to be safe, you would become another 'bubble boy', who was locked
into a completely controlled environment because of his poor immune system.
If you define organic to something that grows naturally, you may want to
think
about Wolfsbane, Death Angel Mushrooms, Marijuana, Hemlock, Foxglove,
Mandrake, Poison Sumac, etc. I am not suggesting these are used on apples,
but I am just using that as an illustration for comparison.



I don't grow fruit trees, but I seem to recall reading about the idea of
using a material similar to floating row cover to completely wrap dwarf
trees.

It's called 'Surround'. It is a disgusting powder that covers your fruit. I
have tried
it and it doesn't do the job. It's a pain to apply, and an even greater pain
to clean off
after harvest. Surround is primarily made of Kaolin, a clay substance. I
checked on
the potential problems of ingesting clay on a medical website and they claim
the
following: "Clay or dirt eating has been associated with lead poisoning in
infants, children,
and pregnant women, with potential risks such as low red blood cell count and
brain damage.
Clay or dirt eating has been associated with lead poisoning in infants,
children, and pregnant
women, with potential risks such as low red blood cell count and brain
damage." Seems
like this organic spray has potential detrimental effects, as well.

Unfortunately, the organic sprays have a long way to go to approach
the effectiveness of chemical sprays. I am experimenting with covering the
apples
with zip lock bags and mesh nets. It seems to be working nicely, but it is
an extremely
labor intensive approach, and only practical in protecting a small percentage
of my
apples.



Obviously, this won't address fungus problems, but it should
certainly help with some of the bugs. Have you explored this idea?

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...


I don't know what you spray with, but as the web sites indicate, some
products are systemic, so you can wash your apples all day long and you
won't get rid of those chemicals. And, sun, wind & rain won't do a thing,
either.

You are definitely wrong about the sun, wind, & rain. It's a question
of
quantity,
and I specifically said that the residue remaining would not be
significant. We
ingest much more junk into our bodies by just breathing our poluted
air. If
you
wanted to be safe, you would become another 'bubble boy', who was
locked
into a completely controlled environment because of his poor immune
system.
If you define organic to something that grows naturally, you may want
to
think
about Wolfsbane, Death Angel Mushrooms, Marijuana, Hemlock, Foxglove,
Mandrake, Poison Sumac, etc. I am not suggesting these are used on
apples,
but I am just using that as an illustration for comparison.

I'm definitely wrong about sun, wind and rain?? Before we continue, let's
agree on some definitions. Do you know what "systemic" means? Do not post
links to dictionaries or any other source. Tell me in your own words what a
systemic pesticide is.



I don't grow fruit trees, but I seem to recall reading about the idea of
using a material similar to floating row cover to completely wrap dwarf
trees.

It's called 'Surround'. It is a disgusting powder that covers your
fruit.

No, I'm not talking around something you spray or dust onto the fruit. I'm
talking about a gossamer-like fabric which allows light & rain to penetrate,
but stops the majority of insects from contacting the plant. In catalogs and
garden stores, you'll see it labeled as "floating row cover" because it's so
lightweight that it appears to float. I can't recall where, but in the past,
I've seen it sold in larger sizes for covering dwarf fruit trees. You'd
obviously need to wait until enough pollination had taken place, and then
cover the tree. Do some research. You might discover something interesting.

Doug Kanter wrote:

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...


I don't know what you spray with, but as the web sites indicate, some
products are systemic, so you can wash your apples all day long and you
won't get rid of those chemicals. And, sun, wind & rain won't do a thing,
either.

You are definitely wrong about the sun, wind, & rain. It's a question
of
quantity,
and I specifically said that the residue remaining would not be
significant. We
ingest much more junk into our bodies by just breathing our poluted
air. If
you
wanted to be safe, you would become another 'bubble boy', who was
locked
into a completely controlled environment because of his poor immune
system.
If you define organic to something that grows naturally, you may want
to
think
about Wolfsbane, Death Angel Mushrooms, Marijuana, Hemlock, Foxglove,
Mandrake, Poison Sumac, etc. I am not suggesting these are used on
apples,
but I am just using that as an illustration for comparison.

I'm definitely wrong about sun, wind and rain?? Before we continue, let's
agree on some definitions. Do you know what "systemic" means? Do not post
links to dictionaries or any other source. Tell me in your own words what a
systemic pesticide is.

Since you were the first one to use the term, why don't you tell me what
you meant it to be?



I don't grow fruit trees, but I seem to recall reading about the idea of
using a material similar to floating row cover to completely wrap dwarf
trees.

It's called 'Surround'. It is a disgusting powder that covers your
fruit.

No, I'm not talking around something you spray or dust onto the fruit. I'm
talking about a gossamer-like fabric which allows light & rain to penetrate,
but stops the majority of insects from contacting the plant. In catalogs and
garden stores, you'll see it labeled as "floating row cover" because it's so
lightweight that it appears to float. I can't recall where, but in the past,
I've seen it sold in larger sizes for covering dwarf fruit trees.

I have heard of this material for ground covers on plants like strawberries,
but I do not see it as a practical use atop a fruit tree. The branches of
the
tree would poke holes in it allowing the critters to come in.

You'd
obviously need to wait until enough pollination had taken place, and then
cover the tree. Do some research. You might discover something interesting.