"Radio Free America" wrote in message
. 142...
"Doug Kanter" wrote :


"Radio Free America" wrote in message
. 142...
Helleborus looks like a cool perennial for here in the Denver
area. They say it blooms in late winter. How neat.

It's also supposed to be good for shade and part shade. The
area where I'd like to plant some, is on an embankment that's
mostly shaded by some trees in summer but of course they have
no leaves in winter, but I guess that would be ok for this
plant?

They also say it's evergreen. Really? Here in Denver or in
southern climates?

But I see the seed sellers on Ebay are only selling a few
seeds at a time and they're pricey. Why is that? It isn't one
of those plants that's very hard to get seeds started for, is
it?

Do the seeds take like 6 months to germinate or anything?

I like more of a sure thing, where I can just plant seeds and
they go for it.


How about just buying a ready-grown plant from a reliable
LOCAL nursery? It's not an uncommon plant.




I checked with one. They don't have seedling size, only gallons,
and they want $13 each!




well considering that the local Lowes here wanted $7.97 + 9.75% sales tax,
that's not too bad. Stanley's nursery in Knoxville wants $8.97 and NO tax
because they raise their own plants and don't have to charge sales tax.
But shipping you one would cost you more. Spend the $13 and invest in
about two or three of them of different colors, plant them in amended
humusy soil in a semi shady spot (eastern is awesome with a kiss of north)
and mulch with leaves. water until established, and when it blooms, don't
pinch those flowers, the pollinators will come around when you're not
looking and do what they did for me last year. I have TENS and TENS of all
three of my older plants.
the older leaves will start looking raggedy, but resist the urge to prune or
tidy them, and come late winter, the new leaves will rise from the old ones
in the center, and eventually a bloom spike and viola! you're in business.
madgardener

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Radio Free America" wrote in message
. 142...
"Doug Kanter" wrote :


"Radio Free America" wrote in message
. 142...
Helleborus looks like a cool perennial for here in the Denver
area. They say it blooms in late winter. How neat.

It's also supposed to be good for shade and part shade. The
area where I'd like to plant some, is on an embankment that's
mostly shaded by some trees in summer but of course they have
no leaves in winter, but I guess that would be ok for this
plant?

They also say it's evergreen. Really? Here in Denver or in
southern climates?

But I see the seed sellers on Ebay are only selling a few
seeds at a time and they're pricey. Why is that? It isn't one
of those plants that's very hard to get seeds started for, is
it?

Do the seeds take like 6 months to germinate or anything?

I like more of a sure thing, where I can just plant seeds and
they go for it.


How about just buying a ready-grown plant from a reliable
LOCAL nursery? It's not an uncommon plant.




I checked with one. They don't have seedling size, only gallons,
and they want $13 each!


Here ya go - knock yourself out!
http://wholesale.thompson-morgan.com...product/4237/1

yeah, they bloom from seed in about four
years..........................................boo ger!
maddie

snip and prune and whack
Bill

Voles? Do they climb? The witch hazels I saw were almost 7 feet high.

About the roots asshole.

Bill

Asshole? Hmm. Seems like everyone's drunk tonight. Is this the way you
spoke to your family when they asked you things like "We just made
popcorn. Want some?" Is this why they all left?

nahhhh he was just assuming again. I'm not drunk, I'm high on
Spring........and voles live in fear around Fairy Holler. I have felines
that adore capturing them, interrogating them to bloody proportions and then
leaving their battered bodies for me to toss into asshole's yard across the
shared driveway. felines don't eat voles, poisonious, but loads of fun
nevertheless for kitties to learn how to hunt proper. no voles, no chewed
roots and the like.........(they also eat worms and such, and I kinda like
my worms, they can have all the grubs they can manage to snatch on the run
from my cats)
maddie

"Radio Free America" wrote in message
42...

Here ya go - knock yourself out!
http://wholesale.thompson-morgan.com...product/4237/1

What's wrong with this picture?

I can buy Hollyhock seeds for about $3 per 500, and they want
$56 for 100 of those? And they can take 6 months to
germinate?



- Does 56 cents per plant sound better than $13.00 each at a
nursery?

Sure, if they all germinate, and within a few weeks, not 6 months
or a year later.

If they're saying 6 months, then that may answer the other question below,
about stratification. More research is in order for you. "Seed Starter's
Handbook", by Nancy Bubel (sp?). Check your library. I know it sounds
bizarre that seeds can take that long to sprout, when you consider that
marigolds pop out in about 48 hours. But, the plants have their own reasons
for doing things. Sort of like cats.


One odd thing is that they say the plant likes shade, but in
winter? There are no leaves on the trees to shade it then. How is
that handled?

Perhaps their natural habitat is in deep woods, where shade can exist behind
embankments, or around tall evergreens. At home, you can give them some
winter protection by banking leaves against them, observing the patterns of
light on your property and planting accordingly, or using other plants to
provide the necessary conditions.


- Yes. They can take 6 months. They might also require
stratification:
http://www.emmitsburg.net/gardens/ar...2002/stratific
ation_of_seeds.htm

Hmm. Does that need to be done with these seeds, for success?

See above, and take a close look at this site. I suspect it might have some
information about hellebores, but I'm not su
http://www.hellebores.org/growing/propagating.html

In article , "madgardener"
wrote:

then I guess you'll have to order them from Bluestone Perennials, or
Heronswood Nurseries or White Flower Farm or hunt around and find a mail
order company that has them. I have seedlings I could send a few of them
before it gets too hot............anyone on the western area know of a
source for Hellebore?
madgardener
"Radio Free America" wrote in message
.142...
"madgardener" wrote :

don't bother with seeds honey, go to Southwest Gardens on 4114
Harlan Street, in Wheat Ridge and ask for Cary West (phone
number 423-5606) no he doesn't have Hellebore, but he has
other incredible things that will grow there. (there's another
garden center close by, but I can't remember the
name.....sorry, it's been seven years since I perused the
nurseries, but at least Southwest Gardens is still in
business!!) if you go there, tell Cary that "the madgardener
in Eastern Tennessee who called you sent me" and he'll have a
good laugh and you'll find some awesome plants..............
let me know how you do!
maddie

But...I want helleborus!




Here is a plant place

Cricklewood Nursery, 11907
Nevers Road, Snohomish
Washington. 98290


Seeds below and btw this post is driving my my spell checker crazy )

According to the Book Hellebores ISBD 0-88192-266-8 which costs US 29.95
wow. But the pics alone give a glimpse of what can be. I think of these
plants as almost being small scrubs.

Anyway it says Hellebore seed can be imported into the U.S. from Europe.

So we start with a U.S. Source.

Life-Form Replicators
PO Box 857
Fowlerville, Michigan 48836

Phedar Nursery
Bunkers Hill
Romiley, Stockport, SK6 3DS

Jim & Jenny Archibald
Bryn Collen
Ffostrasol, Llandysul
Dyfed SA44 5SB

Last two source are from the United Kingdom.


Bill

--
S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

"William Wagner" wrote in message
...
In article , "madgardener"
wrote:

then I guess you'll have to order them from Bluestone Perennials, or
Heronswood Nurseries or White Flower Farm or hunt around and find a mail
order company that has them. I have seedlings I could send a few of them
before it gets too hot............anyone on the western area know of a
source for Hellebore?
madgardener
"Radio Free America" wrote in message
.142...
"madgardener" wrote :

don't bother with seeds honey, go to Southwest Gardens on 4114
Harlan Street, in Wheat Ridge and ask for Cary West (phone
number 423-5606) no he doesn't have Hellebore, but he has
other incredible things that will grow there. (there's another
garden center close by, but I can't remember the
name.....sorry, it's been seven years since I perused the
nurseries, but at least Southwest Gardens is still in
business!!) if you go there, tell Cary that "the madgardener
in Eastern Tennessee who called you sent me" and he'll have a
good laugh and you'll find some awesome plants..............
let me know how you do!
maddie

But...I want helleborus!




Here is a plant place

Cricklewood Nursery, 11907
Nevers Road, Snohomish
Washington. 98290


Seeds below and btw this post is driving my my spell checker crazy )

According to the Book Hellebores ISBD 0-88192-266-8 which costs US 29.95
wow. But the pics alone give a glimpse of what can be. I think of these
plants as almost being small scrubs.

Anyway it says Hellebore seed can be imported into the U.S. from Europe.

So we start with a U.S. Source.

Life-Form Replicators
PO Box 857
Fowlerville, Michigan 48836

Phedar Nursery
Bunkers Hill
Romiley, Stockport, SK6 3DS

Jim & Jenny Archibald
Bryn Collen
Ffostrasol, Llandysul
Dyfed SA44 5SB

Last two source are from the United Kingdom.


Bill

--
S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

he doesn't HAVE to grow them from seed. I'm willing to prick out a few
seedlings from my three different varieties and send them to him if he
absolutely doesn't want to get up off of the $13 for a gallon pot (that's a
good price, by the way) but I've not heard back yet.
madgardener who knows how to spell Hellebore..........LOL

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:04:47 -0400
"madgardener" wrote:

snip and prune and whack
Bill

Voles? Do they climb? The witch hazels I saw were almost 7 feet high.

About the roots asshole.

Bill

Asshole? Hmm. Seems like everyone's drunk tonight. Is this the way you
spoke to your family when they asked you things like "We just made
popcorn. Want some?" Is this why they all left?

nahhhh he was just assuming again. I'm not drunk, I'm high on
Spring........and voles live in fear around Fairy Holler. I have felines
that adore capturing them, interrogating them to bloody proportions and then
leaving their battered bodies for me to toss into asshole's yard across the
shared driveway. felines don't eat voles, poisonious, but loads of fun
nevertheless for kitties to learn how to hunt proper. no voles, no chewed
roots and the like.........(they also eat worms and such, and I kinda like
my worms, they can have all the grubs they can manage to snatch on the run
from my cats)

Speak for your own felines! My daughter's cat catches 2-3 voles/mice
per day, and eats them all. Of course she throws them all back up
again too... bleh.

I have a couple of young witch hazels in full vole colonies, they
seem OK so far. Hadn't heard about voles causing a problem
for the roots.

As for the Hellebore subject, they are notoriously difficult to
grow from seed, though perhaps not as bad as something like
Paperbark maples that need 2 year stratification and have a
1% success rate. Personally, I'd buy established plants.

Don't know about growing them in colder zones though. I'm in
what passes for 8, and mine took a real beating this winter.
They're only just blooming now, usually we have them in january
if not earlier.

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

How about just buying a ready-grown plant from a reliable
LOCAL nursery? It's not an uncommon plant.




I checked with one. They don't have seedling size, only gallons,
and they want $13 each!


You might want to wait until the end of the season and see if you can get
any on sale. I picked up four last August and paid $10 for the lot. They
have beautiful flowers on them right now. I saw an ad in a local nursery's
flyer last week advertsing Hellebores 1 for $30 or 2 for $50. Insane
pricing!

Good luck finding some. They are worth it if you can get them at a
reasonable price!!

Jacqui

"axeman" wrote in message
...


How about just buying a ready-grown plant from a reliable
LOCAL nursery? It's not an uncommon plant.




I checked with one. They don't have seedling size, only gallons,
and they want $13 each!


You might want to wait until the end of the season and see if you can get
any on sale. I picked up four last August and paid $10 for the lot. They
have beautiful flowers on them right now. I saw an ad in a local
nursery's flyer last week advertsing Hellebores 1 for $30 or 2 for $50.
Insane pricing!

Good luck finding some. They are worth it if you can get them at a
reasonable price!!

Jacqui



Too bad Home Depot doesn't sell plants like that. You could walk in right
now, ask for the manager, and say "Look...you're gonna start killing all
your nursery stock in about a month, and then try to sell it all really
cheap. Why not just sell me some of those plants now, at the damaged goods
price?" :-)

"axeman" wrote in message
...

Good luck finding some. They are worth it if you can get them at a
reasonable price!!


Here in Australia, I sometimes see them at second hand type shops. People
often end up with so many of them, they give them to these places to get rid
of them.

Jen

As for the Hellebore subject, they are notoriously difficult to
grow from seed

But once you have one or two plants, you're set, at least with some
hellebores. Last year after the seeds on my Helleborus foetidus ripened, I
laid the flower stalk on the ground and brushed a few leaves after it. Two
of them, actually. Now I have two sets of about 30 - 40 seedlings.

Don't know about growing them in colder zones though. I'm in
what passes for 8, and mine took a real beating this winter.
They're only just blooming now, usually we have them in january
if not earlier.

Here in 6b they've been in bloom since February. OK, so the year before the
H. foetidus bloomed in November! Anyway, most hellebores are hardy to zones
4 or 5.

Rachel, Janet:

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:38:16 GMT
"Rachel" wrote:

As for the Hellebore subject, they are notoriously difficult to
grow from seed

But once you have one or two plants, you're set, at least with some
hellebores. Last year after the seeds on my Helleborus foetidus ripened, I
laid the flower stalk on the ground and brushed a few leaves after it. Two
of them, actually. Now I have two sets of about 30 - 40 seedlings.


Interesting, I've never seen mine poke up seedlings. I've got 4 nice
clumps, established before we bought the house.

I remember someone used to post a nice site to URG, I think,
with lots of great pics. Tried googling but didn't turn it up.
He/she is/was a big collector of the things and spoke of
the difficulties of seed exchange IIRC.

Don't know about growing them in colder zones though. I'm in
what passes for 8, and mine took a real beating this winter.
They're only just blooming now, usually we have them in january
if not earlier.

Here in 6b they've been in bloom since February. OK, so the year before the
H. foetidus bloomed in November! Anyway, most hellebores are hardy to zones
4 or 5.

Thanks for the info. I avoid those zones, in winter anyway!

Janet wrote:

One of our cats, working at a slightly faster rate, has caught and
eaten (roughly) fifteen thousand voles in her lifetime. She surgically
excises the liver and some other small vole organ (without breaking or
damaging them) and leaves them on the floor. She's never sick. I
suspect those might be the bits that less skillful cats can't eat or
digest.


Our Lucy is less scientific, which is to say she loses her mind
when confronted by raw flesh, or the chance at it, and once the
prey stops moving she ingests.

Very useful in the garden, she more than makes up for the
damage she does in "crazy mode." (Or at least has so
far, hehe.) My main complaint is the size of her range:
she seems to hunt over several hectares, but invariably
throws up the remains near the front step.

[]
I have a couple of young witch hazels in full vole colonies, they
seem OK so far. Hadn't heard about voles causing a problem
for the roots.

I have found voles are a pain at girdling bark on witchhazels,
hazels, and many young trees. I always used guards until the bark was
tough enough not to interest them. Keep grasss away from the stems,
otherwise in snowy weather they use the grass as a teepee with food laid
on.

Not much snow here, or not for long. Anyway I weed and mulch the
base of all young shrubs and trees, and I do use a bit of plastic
grilling at the base. So hopefully I'll be OK. Thanks for the advice.

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

In article ,
"Rachel" wrote:

As for the Hellebore subject, they are notoriously difficult to
grow from seed

But once you have one or two plants, you're set, at least with some
hellebores. Last year after the seeds on my Helleborus foetidus ripened, I
laid the flower stalk on the ground and brushed a few leaves after it. Two
of them, actually. Now I have two sets of about 30 - 40 seedlings.

Don't know about growing them in colder zones though. I'm in
what passes for 8, and mine took a real beating this winter.
They're only just blooming now, usually we have them in january
if not earlier.

Here in 6b they've been in bloom since February. OK, so the year before the
H. foetidus bloomed in November! Anyway, most hellebores are hardy to zones
4 or 5.

I do nothing and they self seed sometimes. Can you speak about laying
flower stalks down ? I'd like to help the process as so far it is
mystery. Still looking about and identifying plants is fun.

We spend a lot of our time searching here for Japanese Maple gifts.
Hellebore's now on our list too.

Thanks!

Bill

--
S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

"William Wagner" wrote in message
...

I do nothing and they self seed sometimes. Can you speak about laying
flower stalks down ? I'd like to help the process as so far it is
mystery. Still looking about and identifying plants is fun.

I really have no experience and followed no principles from books or
elsewhere, only I knew that the seeds don't travel well and had heard that
the plants do reseed right where they are. I don't want a zillion hellebores
next to the one where I have it by the front steps, so I tried two places -
one there and one elsewhere. I waited till the seed pods sticking out of the
middle of the blossoms had turned black and really looked ripe (it was late
May, even into June, maybe), and the flowers themselves were looking raggedy
and finished. I cut the flower stalks at the base with scissors. One of them
I laid on the ground a foot away from the mother plant, and brushed some
pine needle mulch up around it. The other one, I took to a different,
desirable location at the edge of the woods (oak forest), pushed the
previous year's leaves aside and put the flower stalk on the bare ground,
then pushed the leaves back up around it. That's all. About three weeks ago
the seedlings came up, tons of them. It really looks as if maybe 80% of the
seeds on the stalks germinated. They'll have to be thinned, and some of them
transplanted, but a few I'll leave in place, because I hear they don't like
transplanting, either. I have just about limitless numbers of places for
them to go, on an acre and a half of woodland, with a clearing for the
house, and paths. ... Just now everything is beautiful with native Cutleaf
Toothwort and Claytonia Virginica (Spring Beauty), plus some Virginia
Bluebells and Bloodroot that I got started a couple of years ago and they're
spreading - and that's even though my efforts to eradicate the invasive
Garlic Mustard and Japanese Honeysuckle from the forest floor are slow and
laborious.

Are the seeds good sized or tiny?

Sorry, I'm really not sure. The black things sticking out of the blossom are
pretty large, about half an inch long (on H. foetidus), and four of them.
But I think they're pods. And don't mess with them unless you know what
you're doing, because I believe they can irritate the skin badly if you
start cutting them open.