On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:46:59 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

Jangchub wrote in
:


If you don't remember where you heard something why would you pass it
on as fact?

Actually, I said it tongue in cheek. *sigh* The printed word is SUCH a
limiting medium.

May all your authoritive advice always be right on the money and may you
never, ever, EVER make a mistake. Carry on!

I always make mistakes all day long all the time every day. However,
Tagetes and pyrethrum have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

Jangchub wrote in
:

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:46:59 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

Jangchub wrote in
m:


If you don't remember where you heard something why would you pass
it on as fact?

Actually, I said it tongue in cheek. *sigh* The printed word is
SUCH a limiting medium.

May all your authoritive advice always be right on the money and may
you never, ever, EVER make a mistake. Carry on!

I always make mistakes all day long all the time every day. However,
Tagetes and pyrethrum have absolutely nothing to do with one another.


Isn't arrogance fun?

Jangchub wrote:

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 09:08:03 -0400, "Paul E.
Lehmann" wrote:

Jangchub wrote:

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:12:46 -0400, "Paul E.
Lehmann" wrote:

I have a backyard vineyard of about 100 vines.
Does anyone know of any plants that are
natural insect repellants that I could plant
between the
vines. I do not need a product I can eat but
something that is pretty would be an added
bonus.

What insect are you trying to repel?

Foliar spraying with liquid seaweed or also
sold under sea kelp has been shown to repel
spider mites.

I'd have to know more to give accurate
information.

I am particularly interested in getting rid of
Japanese beatles.

The best thing is to eliminmate the grubs in the
soil before they
become beetles. The long term solution is to
use a product called
Milky Spore. It's an organic pathogen which is
host specific. OR, the use of beneficial
nematodes is also a much faster way to get rid
of grubs in the soil. I don't know of anything
which would repel Japanese beetles, but I can
tell you that if you use foliar sprays of liquid
seaweed weekly, the plants will be much
healthier and will
repel the insects themselves. In general,
insects are drawn to unhealthy plants before
they are drawn to healthy plants.

I have heard about the milky spore product but I
also heard that you need neighbors who will
cooperate and use it also because the beatles do
fly and they will just migrate in from nearby.
Also the beatles I have eat very healthy plants -
roses and young grape shoots - in addition to
other things.

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 21:48:32 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:


Isn't arrogance fun?

I don't find anything fun about arrogance. However, the information
was wrong and it can be proven wrong with a simple search about the
species Tagetes and Chrysanthumum. They are not the same. If that is
arrogant of me to point this out, I'd have to say the arrogance is a
reflection of you.

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 17:55:28 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:

I have heard about the milky spore product but I
also heard that you need neighbors who will
cooperate and use it also because the beatles do
fly and they will just migrate in from nearby.
Also the beatles I have eat very healthy plants -
roses and young grape shoots - in addition to
other things.

It may be beneficial for you to invest in some Remay fabric to shelter
your grape plants till the June bugs are gone. Also, spraying with
pepper spray may be useful. Take two or three habernero peppers in a
blender with about two cups of water and an entire bulb of garlic.
Blend it, strain out the solids. Take the remaining concentrate and
put it into and empty gallon jug and fill with water. Use one cup per
gallon of spray, but make perfectly sure you strain out all solids or
your sprayer nozzle will clog. I use cheesecloth, or I should say I
used to use it. Now I am tolerant of insects or animals chewing on
things. I don't have a vinyard so I do understand why you'd like your
grapes to remain well.

Jangchub wrote in
:

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 21:48:32 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:


Isn't arrogance fun?

I don't find anything fun about arrogance. However, the information
was wrong and it can be proven wrong with a simple search about the
species Tagetes and Chrysanthumum. They are not the same. If that is
arrogant of me to point this out, I'd have to say the arrogance is a
reflection of you.


Ah, is pride fun, too?

Jangchub wrote:

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 17:55:28 -0400, "Paul E.
Lehmann" wrote:

I have heard about the milky spore product but I
also heard that you need neighbors who will
cooperate and use it also because the beatles do
fly and they will just migrate in from nearby.
Also the beatles I have eat very healthy plants
- roses and young grape shoots - in addition to
other things.

It may be beneficial for you to invest in some
Remay fabric to shelter
your grape plants till the June bugs are gone.
Also, spraying with
pepper spray may be useful. Take two or three
habernero peppers in a blender with about two
cups of water and an entire bulb of garlic.
Blend it, strain out the solids. Take the
remaining concentrate and
put it into and empty gallon jug and fill with
water. Use one cup per gallon of spray, but
make perfectly sure you strain out all solids or
your sprayer nozzle will clog. I use
cheesecloth, or I should say I
used to use it. Now I am tolerant of insects or
animals chewing on
things. I don't have a vinyard so I do
understand why you'd like your grapes to remain
well.

This sounds like a good thing to try if one had
just a few vines but I have over 100 vines.
Getting rid of the Japanese beatles is important
since they eat the tips of shoots and very young
leaves. It just so happens that these are the
leaves that are producing most of the
photosynthesis at the time of year when the
beatles are active.

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 00:21:19 +0100, Janet Baraclough
wrote:


The active chemical occurs in several members of the compositae
family, including, chrysanthemum and marigold. See

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/54...scription.html

which is much too long to reproduce here, but here's a snippet

"Industrially, pyrethrum extracts are obtained by extraction of dried
pyrethrum flowers with hexane followed by dewaxing and decolorization to
yield a mixture containing approximately 20% pyrethrins and 80% inert
plant materials or solvents. This technical extract is registered with
the Environmental Protection Agency and is a standard item of commerce
used for formulating numerous end products. Flower production is
centered in Kenya and surrounding countries, with some production being
attempted in Tasmania and New Guinea. While pyrethrum flowers are not
grown commercially in the United States, some of the Compositae
(daisies, marigolds, etc.) in U.S. gardens probably produce these
compounds. There has been an effort to cultivate C. cinerariaefolium in
Oregon and Arizona but this is not yet a viable commercial source. "

Janet.

All this says is that no form of Tagetes has been formulated as a
viable source, so you, me, nobody anywhere has ever used any form of
Tagetes to kill insects. Pyrethrum FLOWERS is where the compound is
found, not the leaves. Your post proves it.

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 00:33:42 +0100, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from Jangchub contains these words:

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 21:48:32 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:


Isn't arrogance fun?

I don't find anything fun about arrogance. However, the information
was wrong and it can be proven wrong with a simple search about the
species Tagetes and Chrysanthumum. They are not the same.

Nobody said they were the same. I said, they are in the same plant
family (compositae). A simple search will show you that/


Marigolds contain the same insecticidal compounds as chrysanthemum

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/54...scription.html

Janet

Janet, you said the pesticide was in the leaves and something to the
effect of smellier the better or some such thing.

On Mar 31, 4:46 pm, Jangchub wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 19:22:57 +0100, Janet Baraclough

wrote:
Marigolds are a member of the family which are the natural source of
pyrethrum, which was marketed as an effective insecticide. The pungent
smell-quotient in marigold leaves, is the pyrethrum, so ones with the
smelliest leaves, have the most insecticide.

In the UK, gardeners who grow tomatoes and basil in glasshouses,
often grow marigolds in there too, as a sacrifice plant to kill
whitefly.

Janet.

Wrong. C. coccineum is NO relation to Tagetes. You are also wrong
about it being the "leaves, is the pyrethrum." Pyrethrum come from a
Chrysanthamum coccineum plant and it is the crushed flowers where the
poison is, not the foliage.

Yes, and marigolds are used as companion plants with tomatoes, and
they do not contain pyrethrum.
The main point is that they deter certain insects that like tomatoe
plants.
Marigolds are not an insecticide. They are a deterrent.

dancing in my mind,
gloria in hemlock hollow
(only the iguanas know for sure)

On 31 Mar 2007 19:26:43 -0700, "gldancer"
wrote:


Yes, and marigolds are used as companion plants with tomatoes, and
they do not contain pyrethrum.
The main point is that they deter certain insects that like tomatoe
plants.
Marigolds are not an insecticide. They are a deterrent.

dancing in my mind,
gloria in hemlock hollow
(only the iguanas know for sure)

Oy, there is ONE marigold which can control or help to control root
knot nematodes. Otherwise, they are useless. You'd be much better
off planting garlic or basil with tomatoes.

Jangchub expounded:

Janet, you said the pesticide was in the leaves and something to the
effect of smellier the better or some such thing.

Actually, no, in Message-ID:
, FragileWarrior said:

Marigolds are old stand-bys for that kind of thing, the smellier, the
better.

Second response in this thread.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:25:53 -0400, Ann wrote:

Jangchub expounded:

Janet, you said the pesticide was in the leaves and something to the
effect of smellier the better or some such thing.

Actually, no, in Message-ID:
, FragileWarrior said:

Marigolds are old stand-bys for that kind of thing, the smellier, the
better.

Second response in this thread.

Ann, Janet said the pesticidal properties were in the leaves of the
marigold, which she said was pyrethrum. That is not true, and
inaccurate. It is not a common marigold which produces the pesticide
pyrethrum, but the mum and the pesticide is in the flowers not stems
of foliage.

v

Jangchub expounded:

Ann, Janet said the pesticidal properties were in the leaves of the
marigold, which she said was pyrethrum. That is not true, and
inaccurate. It is not a common marigold which produces the pesticide
pyrethrum, but the mum and the pesticide is in the flowers not stems
of foliage.

Yea, V, I saw that further down the thread. I've always known
pyrethrum to be derived from mums, also. A google search does not
turn up any mentions of marigolds producing pyrethrins at all.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:46:16 -0400, Ann wrote:

Jangchub expounded:

Ann, Janet said the pesticidal properties were in the leaves of the
marigold, which she said was pyrethrum. That is not true, and
inaccurate. It is not a common marigold which produces the pesticide
pyrethrum, but the mum and the pesticide is in the flowers not stems
of foliage.

Yea, V, I saw that further down the thread. I've always known
pyrethrum to be derived from mums, also. A google search does not
turn up any mentions of marigolds producing pyrethrins at all.

After I typed it I figured you didn't finish reading the whole thread.
No worries.