On Wed, 30 May 2007 00:04:46 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

The industry AND its opponents would laugh at it, and they'd be right to do
so. Both sides have also said that it was invalid to test chemicals on
animals. You have to have followed this back to the early 1970s to see the
entirety of the testing farce.


I have and I have been battling in this newsgroup for over 13 years.
I've mellowed, to say the least. Now I garden how I garden and I
leave others to garden the way they want to garden. I can't change
that no matter how much evidence I come up with. Laziness will still
always overtake the hand at task.

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
6.121...

I use home made concoctions to get rid of mites etc.
that I've learned from my neighbors.

Try blending onions & garlic with water (1 gallon water, 4 onions, and all
the cloves from a head of garlic). Put it in a bottle, stick it in the
garage, and forget about it for a year. Not only will it repel any bug
including Japanese beetles, it will cause car to swerve away from your
property. Nasty stuff. Perfect!

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
6.121...
"JoeSpareBedroom" was forced to post this in:
rec.gardens


Joe responding to Bob:

Since we now agree that there is no data, we can see that it is
foolish to assume garden chemicals are safe. You can also say it's
foolish to assume they are unsafe, and we will agree to differ in that
regard.

I think it's the uncertainty that makes me skittish. I think I'm going to
have to really dig into this topic and try to form some kind of informed
opinion on it, and put it to use. The neighbors down the way just put a
dry creek bed in on the side of their house. Looks really nice too.
Their
lawn and gardens always look really nice too. It looks way too tailored
and
manicured for my tastes but that's okay. I was down there last night
looking at the creek bed and noticed the garage was full of chemical
gardening stuff. Scott's lawn fertilizer, Real Kill (which I assume is
about the same as Roundup, etc. They put the creek bed in because the
water
that rushes down the side of the house just sits next to the house. The
creek bed will drain the rainfall into the street. Because of this thread
I have to wonder what happens to all the chemical stuff after it rains.

Michael


Call your water authority and ask them exactly what happens to water that
runs into the street into the storm drains. Ask them if it's treated
(probably not). Ask them exactly where your drinking water comes from, and
if the source could possibly be affected by what lands in the storm drains
(like your neighbor's chemicals, oil leaks from cars, etc).

Prepare to drink heavily afterward.

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
6.121...
"JoeSpareBedroom" was forced to post this in:
rec.gardens

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
6.121...

I use home made concoctions to get rid of mites etc.
that I've learned from my neighbors.

Try blending onions & garlic with water (1 gallon water, 4 onions, and
all the cloves from a head of garlic). Put it in a bottle, stick it in
the garage, and forget about it for a year. Not only will it repel any
bug including Japanese beetles, it will cause car to swerve away from
your property. Nasty stuff. Perfect!

Well I can do that. You *know* I've always got onion and garlic laying
around. I've also got a bunch of those gallon sized spray bottles around
with home made stuff which is all labeled. I'll give it a try.

Michael

It might work when it's fresh, but I'm *sure* it works after getting really
disgusting for a year. Be sure to filter it, obviously. First through a
regular kitchen strainer, then through coffee filters, which can take
forever.

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
6.121...
"JoeSpareBedroom" was forced to post this in:
rec.gardens

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
6.121...
"JoeSpareBedroom" was forced to post this
in: rec.gardens

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
6.121...

I use home made concoctions to get rid of mites etc.
that I've learned from my neighbors.

Try blending onions & garlic with water (1 gallon water, 4 onions,
and all the cloves from a head of garlic). Put it in a bottle, stick
it in the garage, and forget about it for a year. Not only will it
repel any bug including Japanese beetles, it will cause car to
swerve away from your property. Nasty stuff. Perfect!

Well I can do that. You *know* I've always got onion and garlic
laying around. I've also got a bunch of those gallon sized spray
bottles around with home made stuff which is all labeled. I'll give
it a try.

Michael

It might work when it's fresh, but I'm *sure* it works after getting
really disgusting for a year. Be sure to filter it, obviously. First
through a regular kitchen strainer, then through coffee filters, which
can take forever.

Maybe I'll use the ripe stuff as mouthwash when unannounced drop in guests
come by.

Michael

--
This is how it works in my house. Click the pic to enlarge it:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=42ko0mf
-remove "foodie" to email

LOL! I can "amen!" that one too........love to see the expressions if u did

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
6.121...
"JoeSpareBedroom" was forced to post this in:
rec.gardens

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
6.121...
"JoeSpareBedroom" was forced to post this
in: rec.gardens

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
6.121...

I use home made concoctions to get rid of mites etc.
that I've learned from my neighbors.

Try blending onions & garlic with water (1 gallon water, 4 onions,
and all the cloves from a head of garlic). Put it in a bottle, stick
it in the garage, and forget about it for a year. Not only will it
repel any bug including Japanese beetles, it will cause car to
swerve away from your property. Nasty stuff. Perfect!

Well I can do that. You *know* I've always got onion and garlic
laying around. I've also got a bunch of those gallon sized spray
bottles around with home made stuff which is all labeled. I'll give
it a try.

Michael

It might work when it's fresh, but I'm *sure* it works after getting
really disgusting for a year. Be sure to filter it, obviously. First
through a regular kitchen strainer, then through coffee filters, which
can take forever.

Maybe I'll use the ripe stuff as mouthwash when unannounced drop in guests
come by.

Michael

Oh....those kinds of guests....

On Wed, 30 May 2007 14:30:56 GMT, "Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan"
wrote:

I try to do as much organically as I can. I've only been gardening for
about 7 years now. Most of my adult life has been spent in a condo, 300
feet in the air with a terrace. Sure, I always had pot gardens on the
terrace

Whoooaaa......faaar out, man. Didn't you worry about getting busted?

Peace and Love
Charlie

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:

On Tue, 29 May 2007 20:59:14 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

A reference that one of you (Bill, I think) gave yesterday said,
"Glyphosate is acutely toxic to humans. Ingesting about 3/4 of a cup can
be lethal."

Were they just pulling numbers out of their ass? (actually, I think they
were, but I'm not the one who posted it)

You guys that interested. I could spread my cheeks for you. It's been
awhile since anybody was that interested. I'm flattered.

But for the benefit of you who have either ADD and/or are just slow
readers I shall reprint in it's entirety.

Ten reasons to "NOT" use roundup.

Compiled by Caroline Cox, Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to
Pesticides- (NCAP)

Roundup, and related herbicides with glyphosate as an active
ingredient, are advertised as products that can "eradicate weeds and
unwanted grasses effectively with a high level of environmental safety."
However, an independent, accurate evaluation of their health and
environmental hazards can draw conclusions very different from those
presented in the ads. Consider these facts:

1. Glyphosate can be persistent. In tests conducted by Monsanto,
manufacturer of
glyphosate-containing herbicides, up to 140 days were required for half
of the applied glyphosate to break down or disappear from agricultural
soils. At harvest, residues of glyphosate were found in lettuce,
carrots, and barley planted one year after glyphosate treatment.
2. Glyphosate can drift. Test conducted by the University of
California, Davis, found that glyphosate drifted up to 400 meters (1300
feet) during ground applications and 800 meters 12600 feet) during
aerial applications.
3. Glyphosate is acutely toxic to humans. Ingesting about 3/4 of a
cup can be lethal. Symptoms include eye and skin irritation, lung
congestion, and erosion of the intestinal tract. Between 1984 and 1990
in California, glyphosate was the third most frequently reported cause
of illness elated to agricultural pesticide use.

4. Glyphosate has shown a wide spectrum of chronic toxicity in
laboratory tests. The National Toxicology Program found that chronic
feeding of glyphosate caused salivary gland lesions, reduced sperm
counts, and a lengthened estrous cycle (how often an individual comes
into heat). Other chronic effects found in laboratory tests include an
increase in the frequency of lethal mutations in fruit flies, an
increase in frequency of pancreas and liver tumors in male rats along
with an increase in the frequency of thyroid tumors in females, and
cataracts. (ne fruit fly study used Roundup; the other studies used
glyphosate.)

5. Roundup contains toxic trade secret ingredients. These include
polyethoxylated tallowamines, causing nausea and diarrhea, and
isopropylamine, causing chemical pneumonia, laryngitis, headache, and
bums.

6. Roundup kills beneficial insects. Tests conducted by !he
International Organization for Biological Control showed that Roundup
caused mortality of live beneficial species: a Thrichgramma, a predatory
mite, a lacewing, a ladybug, and a predatory beetle.

7. Glyphosate is hazardous to earthworms, Tests using New Zealand's
most common earthworm showed that glyphosate, in amounts as low as 1/20
of standard application rates, reduced it- growth and slowed its
development.

8. Roundup inhibits mycorrhizal fungi. Canadian studies have shown
that as little as 1 part per million of Roundup can reduce the growth or
colonization of mycorrhizal fungi.

9. Glyphosate reduces nitrogen fixation. Amounts as small as 2
parts per million have had significant effects, and effects have been
measured up to 120 days after treatment. Nitrogen- fixing bacteria
shown to be impacted by glyphosate include a species found on soybeans
and several species found on clover.

10. Roundup can increase the spread or seventy of plant diseases.
Treatment with roundup increased the severity of Rhizoctonia root rot
in barley, increased the amount and growth of take-all fungus, a wheat
disease), and reduced the ability of bean plants to defend themselves
against anthracnose.

These facts about Roundup are taken From a two-part article about the
health and environmental hazards of glyphosate published in NCAP's
Journal of Pesticide Reform. Copies of the article, with complete
references for all of .the information presented, are available from
NCAP for $2.00. NCAP, PO Box 1391; Eugene, OR 97440; (541) 344-5044.


Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.


That's why I like old fashion chemicals that have been around for 40
years rather than the brand new exotic pesticides that Bayer makes.
There's enough anecdotal data to actually mean something. ;-)

Roundup was invented in 1970. Is 37 years enough anecdotal evidence
for you?

John

Hi, John and, this is from a man who has said he has gone, what was it
John?, 3 years without needing to use it. Not that he wouldn't, it's
just his professional experience in Integrated Pest Management has told
him that there are other ways to fix the problems that he has
encountered. Right, John? I hope I didn't miss represent your attitude.
If I did, give me both barrels.

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

"Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan" wrote in
6.121:

Charlie was forced to post this in: rec.gardens

On Wed, 30 May 2007 14:30:56 GMT, "Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan"
wrote:

I try to do as much organically as I can. I've only been gardening
for about 7 years now. Most of my adult life has been spent in a
condo, 300 feet in the air with a terrace. Sure, I always had pot
gardens on the terrace

Whoooaaa......faaar out, man. Didn't you worry about getting busted?

LOL... I never got busted but could never get the tomato plants to
grow right. I got blossoms but no tomatoes.

Michael


Beez a bee, honeybee.

On Wed, 30 May 2007 14:41:58 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
86.121...

I use home made concoctions to get rid of mites etc.
that I've learned from my neighbors.

Try blending onions & garlic with water (1 gallon water, 4 onions, and all
the cloves from a head of garlic). Put it in a bottle, stick it in the
garage, and forget about it for a year. Not only will it repel any bug
including Japanese beetles, it will cause car to swerve away from your
property. Nasty stuff. Perfect!


What, it doesn't work on dogs! Wahahahaha!

On Wed, 30 May 2007 12:15:24 -0500, Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2007 14:30:56 GMT, "Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan"
wrote:

I try to do as much organically as I can. I've only been gardening for
about 7 years now. Most of my adult life has been spent in a condo, 300
feet in the air with a terrace. Sure, I always had pot gardens on the
terrace

Whoooaaa......faaar out, man. Didn't you worry about getting busted?

Peace and Love
Charlie

One time my X neighbor (his wife finally divorced him) called the
police on me for growing pot and when the cop got here he laughed his
ass off. It was a Vitex castus agnus.

On Thu, 31 May 2007 01:54:37 GMT, "Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan"
wrote:

I was told at a cocktail party I was throwing that there was no pollination
as beez do not go that high. I attributed it to the alcohol talking at the
time.

Michael

Bees do not pollinate tomatoes, wind does. Give your plants a good
shake daily till you set fruit

On Wed, 30 May 2007 22:20:40 -0500, jangchub
wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2007 12:15:24 -0500, Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2007 14:30:56 GMT, "Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan"
wrote:

I try to do as much organically as I can. I've only been gardening for
about 7 years now. Most of my adult life has been spent in a condo, 300
feet in the air with a terrace. Sure, I always had pot gardens on the
terrace

Whoooaaa......faaar out, man. Didn't you worry about getting busted?

Peace and Love
Charlie

One time my X neighbor (his wife finally divorced him) called the
police on me for growing pot and when the cop got here he laughed his
ass off. It was a Vitex castus agnus.

Chasteberry....good herb.

You mean the cop knew it was chasteberry? Likely not, just not the
other herb.

Cops around are not quite that.....uhhhhh.....whatever!

Man, I hope it quits raining for just a few days, I gotta get offline
and into the dirt

Charlie

jangchub wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2007 01:54:37 GMT, "Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan"
wrote:


I was told at a cocktail party I was throwing that there was no pollination
as beez do not go that high. I attributed it to the alcohol talking at the
time.

Michael


Bees do not pollinate tomatoes, wind does. Give your plants a good
shake daily till you set fruit


Well, honey bees don't pollinate tomatoes, they can't get to the pollen.
The sonic "buzz" of bumble and carpenter bees along with other solitary
bees causes the tomato to release pollen usually resulting in higher
yields than depending on the wind or vibration to do the trick.

Lar

"jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 May 2007 14:41:58 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
. 186.121...

I use home made concoctions to get rid of mites etc.
that I've learned from my neighbors.

Try blending onions & garlic with water (1 gallon water, 4 onions, and all
the cloves from a head of garlic). Put it in a bottle, stick it in the
garage, and forget about it for a year. Not only will it repel any bug
including Japanese beetles, it will cause car to swerve away from your
property. Nasty stuff. Perfect!


What, it doesn't work on dogs! Wahahahaha!


Dogs are like tomato hornworms. Better to pick them off one at a time, so to
speak.