I'm a registered forester in Michigan, Pat.

Ignore this "symplastless" guy... he's a wanna-be forester.
Lacking some serious formal education, and thus professional background.

Myself and my colleagues have had to sort through the majority of his
posts on this forum.

I do not believe that the American ash is "history", but there is no
doubt the bug has done some serious damage to many of our hardwood
stands in the central lower peninsula (or "810" area code as I call it -
even though the actual problem extends far beyond that area code's
boundaries).

I live in Osceola county (just South of Cadillac) and it has been found
in my county, but not doing damage to the extent that it did in lower
Michigan. I have not yet seen it in a stand up here. I hope it
continues that way.

The biggest problem is vectoring. It cannot vector itself very far
(maybe a mile or two), but people can vector it very broad and very fast
via cars, hence the "moving firewood bugs me" campaign.

Once it gets to a place where there are any form of ash trees, it goes
on a feeding frenzy that is like no other.

I've sold timber in Defiance County, Ohio - which was also one of the
EAB problem areas, but timber in NW Ohio is scattered enough as to not
be a problem for EABs.

EAB resistance is more than likely a futile attempt. The best way to
eliminate the problem is to eliminate the hosts where populations of EAB
are found. This critter is not known to prey on other trees.



Pat Kiewicz wrote:
symplastless said:
Product pusher. Bayer also claims to be a feeder of trees as well.

You'll learn to sing some other tune when these insects arrive in your
neck of the woods. They are a monumental catastrophe. I live near
ground zero. Millions of ash trees, in forests and back yards, have
been killed. The non-native emerald ash borer attacks healthy trees
as well as stressed trees. The skeletons of dead ash in nearby wildlands
eerie and obvious. All due to a surprisingly small green beetle.

Long term (maybe very long term indeed), breeding resistant strains of
North American ash and finding appropriate biological controls will be
needed or the American ash is history.

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/

Should I Replant or Save My Ash? (PowerPoint presentation):
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/file...ProtectAsh.htm

Options for 'do it yourself' homeowners unwilling to give up on their
ash trees:
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/files/E2955.pdf

(As for me, if I had to make a choice, I would the ash tree removed
and be done with it.)

Quote from http://www.emeraldashborer.info/homeownerinfo.cfm

"IMPORTANT NOTE: Using insecticides to control EAB on ash trees is an
option in Michigan and the EAB quarantined counties in Ohio, Indiana
and Illinois. If your tree is located within an area designated for
eradication or suppression activities, it may be removed by regulatory
agencies even if it has been treated. In those cases where government-
ordered tree removals occur within the contiguous EAB quarantine
counties, consideration will be given to ash trees treated by certified
applicators utilizing methods and materials recommended by Michigan
State University. If your ash trees are located outside of this area in
Michigan, Indiana, Illinois or Ohio, using insecticides may not be
recommended. If you are not sure about the regulatory status of your
area or whether you should consider insecticides, please contact your
county Extension office."

Pat

Please explain how bark forms.

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Geoff-consulting forester in the US" wrote
in message ...
I'm a registered forester in Michigan, Pat.

Ignore this "symplastless" guy... he's a wanna-be forester.
Lacking some serious formal education, and thus professional background.

Myself and my colleagues have had to sort through the majority of his
posts on this forum.

I do not believe that the American ash is "history", but there is no doubt
the bug has done some serious damage to many of our hardwood stands in the
central lower peninsula (or "810" area code as I call it - even though the
actual problem extends far beyond that area code's boundaries).

I live in Osceola county (just South of Cadillac) and it has been found in
my county, but not doing damage to the extent that it did in lower
Michigan. I have not yet seen it in a stand up here. I hope it continues
that way.

The biggest problem is vectoring. It cannot vector itself very far (maybe
a mile or two), but people can vector it very broad and very fast via
cars, hence the "moving firewood bugs me" campaign.

Once it gets to a place where there are any form of ash trees, it goes on
a feeding frenzy that is like no other.

I've sold timber in Defiance County, Ohio - which was also one of the EAB
problem areas, but timber in NW Ohio is scattered enough as to not be a
problem for EABs.

EAB resistance is more than likely a futile attempt. The best way to
eliminate the problem is to eliminate the hosts where populations of EAB
are found. This critter is not known to prey on other trees.



Pat Kiewicz wrote:
symplastless said:
Product pusher. Bayer also claims to be a feeder of trees as well.

You'll learn to sing some other tune when these insects arrive in your
neck of the woods. They are a monumental catastrophe. I live near
ground zero. Millions of ash trees, in forests and back yards, have
been killed. The non-native emerald ash borer attacks healthy trees
as well as stressed trees. The skeletons of dead ash in nearby wildlands
eerie and obvious. All due to a surprisingly small green beetle.

Long term (maybe very long term indeed), breeding resistant strains of
North American ash and finding appropriate biological controls will be
needed or the American ash is history.

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/

Should I Replant or Save My Ash? (PowerPoint presentation):
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/file...ProtectAsh.htm

Options for 'do it yourself' homeowners unwilling to give up on their ash
trees:
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/files/E2955.pdf

(As for me, if I had to make a choice, I would the ash tree removed and
be done with it.) Quote from
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/homeownerinfo.cfm

"IMPORTANT NOTE: Using insecticides to control EAB on ash trees is an
option in Michigan and the EAB quarantined counties in Ohio, Indiana and
Illinois. If your tree is located within an area designated for
eradication or suppression activities, it may be removed by regulatory
agencies even if it has been treated. In those cases where government-
ordered tree removals occur within the contiguous EAB quarantine
counties, consideration will be given to ash trees treated by certified
applicators utilizing methods and materials recommended by Michigan State
University. If your ash trees are located outside of this area in
Michigan, Indiana, Illinois or Ohio, using insecticides may not be
recommended. If you are not sure about the regulatory status of your area
or whether you should consider insecticides, please contact your county
Extension office."

I agree that no one should believe anything because I said it. But believe
it because they see it for themselves. About wanting to be a forester like
you Does that mean I would have to convince people that logging increases
forest health? Logging does anything but address issues of trees
requirements and their associates. Saying that logging increases forest
health is like saying that you can buy a bag of tree food off a shelf. When
was the last time Pat fed a tree? Where is Pats dictionary?

I did call Bayer today and they said they sell fertilizer, nitrogen and not
tree food and they will look into changing labels.

many docs can be found here on effects of logging.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...get/index.html

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.



"Geoff-consulting forester in the US" wrote
in message ...
I'm a registered forester in Michigan, Pat.

Ignore this "symplastless" guy... he's a wanna-be forester.
Lacking some serious formal education, and thus professional background.

Myself and my colleagues have had to sort through the majority of his
posts on this forum.

I do not believe that the American ash is "history", but there is no doubt
the bug has done some serious damage to many of our hardwood stands in the
central lower peninsula (or "810" area code as I call it - even though the
actual problem extends far beyond that area code's boundaries).

I live in Osceola county (just South of Cadillac) and it has been found in
my county, but not doing damage to the extent that it did in lower
Michigan. I have not yet seen it in a stand up here. I hope it continues
that way.

The biggest problem is vectoring. It cannot vector itself very far (maybe
a mile or two), but people can vector it very broad and very fast via
cars, hence the "moving firewood bugs me" campaign.

Once it gets to a place where there are any form of ash trees, it goes on
a feeding frenzy that is like no other.

I've sold timber in Defiance County, Ohio - which was also one of the EAB
problem areas, but timber in NW Ohio is scattered enough as to not be a
problem for EABs.

EAB resistance is more than likely a futile attempt. The best way to
eliminate the problem is to eliminate the hosts where populations of EAB
are found. This critter is not known to prey on other trees.



Pat Kiewicz wrote:
symplastless said:
Product pusher. Bayer also claims to be a feeder of trees as well.

You'll learn to sing some other tune when these insects arrive in your
neck of the woods. They are a monumental catastrophe. I live near
ground zero. Millions of ash trees, in forests and back yards, have
been killed. The non-native emerald ash borer attacks healthy trees
as well as stressed trees. The skeletons of dead ash in nearby wildlands
eerie and obvious. All due to a surprisingly small green beetle.

Long term (maybe very long term indeed), breeding resistant strains of
North American ash and finding appropriate biological controls will be
needed or the American ash is history.

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/

Should I Replant or Save My Ash? (PowerPoint presentation):
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/file...ProtectAsh.htm

Options for 'do it yourself' homeowners unwilling to give up on their ash
trees:
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/files/E2955.pdf

(As for me, if I had to make a choice, I would the ash tree removed and
be done with it.) Quote from
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/homeownerinfo.cfm

"IMPORTANT NOTE: Using insecticides to control EAB on ash trees is an
option in Michigan and the EAB quarantined counties in Ohio, Indiana and
Illinois. If your tree is located within an area designated for
eradication or suppression activities, it may be removed by regulatory
agencies even if it has been treated. In those cases where government-
ordered tree removals occur within the contiguous EAB quarantine
counties, consideration will be given to ash trees treated by certified
applicators utilizing methods and materials recommended by Michigan State
University. If your ash trees are located outside of this area in
Michigan, Indiana, Illinois or Ohio, using insecticides may not be
recommended. If you are not sure about the regulatory status of your area
or whether you should consider insecticides, please contact your county
Extension office."

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..
I agree that no one should believe anything because I said it. But believe
it because they see it for themselves. About wanting to be a forester like
you Does that mean I would have to convince people that logging increases
forest health? Logging does anything but address issues of trees
requirements and their associates. Saying that logging increases forest
health is like saying that you can buy a bag of tree food off a shelf.
When was the last time Pat fed a tree? Where is Pats dictionary?

I did call Bayer today and they said they sell fertilizer, nitrogen and
not tree food and they will look into changing labels.

many docs can be found here on effects of logging.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...get/index.html

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/

Your tree dictionary is a piece of crap, why do you insist on posting here
when real, trained biologist point you out as a fraud.

Beware a so called tree biologist who has never studied biology.

test


"Don Staples" wrote in message
...
"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..
I agree that no one should believe anything because I said it. But
believe it because they see it for themselves. About wanting to be a
forester like you Does that mean I would have to convince people that
logging increases forest health? Logging does anything but address issues
of trees requirements and their associates. Saying that logging increases
forest health is like saying that you can buy a bag of tree food off a
shelf. When was the last time Pat fed a tree? Where is Pats dictionary?

I did call Bayer today and they said they sell fertilizer, nitrogen and
not tree food and they will look into changing labels.

many docs can be found here on effects of logging.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...get/index.html

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/

Your tree dictionary is a piece of crap, why do you insist on posting here
when real, trained biologist point you out as a fraud.

Beware a so called tree biologist who has never studied biology.

"Don Staples" wrote in message
Your tree dictionary is a piece of crap, why do you insist on posting here
when real, trained biologist point you out as a fraud.

Beware a so called tree biologist who has never studied biology.

For those interested my dictionary is he
www.treedictionary.com

If anyone else has a dictionary online based on tree biology please post it
for review.

BTW, Don Staples, what are you?


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Don Staples" wrote in message
Your tree dictionary is a piece of crap, why do you insist on posting
here when real, trained biologist point you out as a fraud.

Beware a so called tree biologist who has never studied biology.

For those interested my dictionary is he
www.treedictionary.com

If anyone else has a dictionary online based on tree biology please post
it for review.

BTW, Don Staples, what are you?

Your worse nightmare, someone actually trained in biology.

Beware a so called tree biologist who has never studied biology.

On Aug 10, 5:01 am, "D. Staples" wrote:
"symplastless" wrote in message

. ..



"Don Staples" wrote in message
Your tree dictionary is a piece of crap, why do you insist on posting
here when real, trained biologist point you out as a fraud.

Beware a so called tree biologist who has never studied biology.

For those interested my dictionary is he
www.treedictionary.com

If anyone else has a dictionary online based on tree biology please post
it for review.

BTW, Don Staples, what are you?

Your worse nightmare, someone actually trained in biology.

Beware a so called tree biologist who has never studied biology.

LOL, people are so fiesty on these groups!

On Aug 8, 7:48 pm, Geoff-consulting forester in the US
wrote:
I'm a registered forester in Michigan, Pat.

Ignore this "symplastless" guy... he's a wanna-be forester.
Lacking some serious formal education, and thus professional background.

Myself and my colleagues have had to sort through the majority of his
posts on this forum.

I do not believe that the American ash is "history", but there is no
doubt the bug has done some serious damage to many of our hardwood
stands in the central lower peninsula (or "810" area code as I call it -
even though the actual problem extends far beyond that area code's
boundaries).

I live in Osceola county (just South of Cadillac) and it has been found
in my county, but not doing damage to the extent that it did in lower
Michigan. I have not yet seen it in a stand up here. I hope it
continues that way.

The biggest problem is vectoring. It cannot vector itself very far
(maybe a mile or two), but people can vector it very broad and very fast
via cars, hence the "moving firewood bugs me" campaign.

Once it gets to a place where there are any form of ash trees, it goes
on a feeding frenzy that is like no other.

I've sold timber in Defiance County, Ohio - which was also one of the
EAB problem areas, but timber in NW Ohio is scattered enough as to not
be a problem for EABs.

EAB resistance is more than likely a futile attempt. The best way to
eliminate the problem is to eliminate the hosts where populations of EAB
are found. This critter is not known to prey on other trees.Pat Kiewicz wrote:
symplastless said:
Product pusher. Bayer also claims to be a feeder of trees as well.

You'll learn to sing some other tune when these insects arrive in your
neck of the woods. They are a monumental catastrophe. I live near
ground zero. Millions of ash trees, in forests and back yards, have
been killed. The non-native emerald ash borer attacks healthy trees
as well as stressed trees. The skeletons of dead ash in nearby wildlands
eerie and obvious. All due to a surprisingly small green beetle.

Long term (maybe very long term indeed), breeding resistant strains of
North American ash and finding appropriate biological controls will be
needed or the American ash is history.

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/

Should I Replant or Save My Ash? (PowerPoint presentation):
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/file...ProtectAsh.htm

Options for 'do it yourself' homeowners unwilling to give up on their
ash trees:
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/files/E2955.pdf

(As for me, if I had to make a choice, I would the ash tree removed
and be done with it.)

Quote fromhttp://www.emeraldashborer.info/homeownerinfo.cfm

"IMPORTANT NOTE: Using insecticides to control EAB on ash trees is an
option in Michigan and the EAB quarantined counties in Ohio, Indiana
and Illinois. If your tree is located within an area designated for
eradication or suppression activities, it may be removed by regulatory
agencies even if it has been treated. In those cases where government-
ordered tree removals occur within the contiguous EAB quarantine
counties, consideration will be given to ash trees treated by certified
applicators utilizing methods and materials recommended by Michigan
State University. If your ash trees are located outside of this area in
Michigan, Indiana, Illinois or Ohio, using insecticides may not be
recommended. If you are not sure about the regulatory status of your
area or whether you should consider insecticides, please contact your
county Extension office."

I find Symplastless to have a good understanding of trees, theier
biology and appropriate care. To ignore him is to dismiss the
teachings of Alex Shigo- anyone claiming to understand or know about
trees without due regard for Shigo's work is one to be taken with a
pinch of salt.

"Treelady" wrote in message
oups.com...

I find Symplastless to have a good understanding of trees, theier
biology and appropriate care. To ignore him is to dismiss the
teachings of Alex Shigo- anyone claiming to understand or know about
trees without due regard for Shigo's work is one to be taken with a
pinch of salt.


The point you miss is it is Shigo's work, not Keslicks. A wannabe whose
education is a series of 2 and 3 day short courses. I wonder if he is even
a member of any national society of arborists.

On Aug 10, 5:10 am, "D. Staples" wrote:
"Treelady" wrote in message

oups.com...



I find Symplastless to have a good understanding oftrees, theier
biology and appropriate care. To ignore him is to dismiss the
teachings of Alex Shigo- anyone claiming to understand or know about
treeswithout due regard for Shigo's work is one to be taken with a
pinch of salt.

The point you miss is it is Shigo's work, not Keslicks. A wannabe whose
education is a series of 2 and 3 day short courses. I wonder if he is even
a member of any national society of arborists.

Not sure if I missed that point, thank you though. I have no idea of
Symplastless's route of education, nevertheless, if he is passing
along information tried and tested by Shigo and his cronies, well, no
point in dismissing it point in hand. People were not always receptive
to Shigo when he began spreading his findings, in fact, I recently
read an article where the writer claims that a man invited Shigo
outside to pyhsically settle the issue of flush cuts versus branch
(bark) collar cuts.
In the Uk to become a menber of of the Arboricultural Society is not a
matter of simply signing up. Belonging to a prestigious group can,
sometimes, mean little more than one is a member of a prestigious
group. Consulting a tree surgeon on a local council's recommendation
list does not guarantee quality, knowledge or good practice. I have
seen work carried out by such contractors, much of it is appalling.

The vicinity in which I live, and work, has many a treeman (mainly all
men, in fact I have never seen a woman working with trees around here)
who knows nothing about tree biology, little about the mechanics of
trees. I have seen all manner of short term thinking in terms of tree
care; Situations where a tree surgeon carries out pruning work that
lessens the lifespan of trees, unnecessary felling, ruthless pruning
etc. I receive phone calls from men looking for jobs who are barely
able to identify trees yet alone understand the nature of trees. That
Keslick makes an effort speaks well for him, in my book. Many of the
men with which I have worked study day release, or simply got their
tickets through two-three day courses. Self education has its place.
To gain a thorough education in tree work via studying at a national
institute is costly and time consuming- many a person, alas, has to
work in order to live, and their families cannot afford to support
them during three plus years of study. For people to spread the word
about good tree care is important for everyone in the industry, from
self learners to university educated people.
To me the difference between an arboriculturalist and a tree surgeon
is education. People have interfered with trees much longer than
people have officially, for want of a better word, studied trees.
I have seen tree work in the USA and the UK, and both countries have a
long way to go before finding a harmony between people and trees.
People have all manner of ideas about trees, and not all are
interested in trees beyond their intentions, which only feeds into
shoddy workmanship.

Don, how do you know that Keslick has such a meager education? Many
arborists in Mass. have a BS degree- or at the minimum a 2 year degree from
a reputable arborist school- such as one at U. Mass. Then, they have to get
a state license after taking a test.

I took the basic arborist course at U. Mass.- it was one of the best courses
I took there- we spent all our time walking the huge campus looking at sick
trees.

Joe


"D. Staples" wrote in message
...

"Treelady" wrote in message
oups.com...

I find Symplastless to have a good understanding of trees, theier
biology and appropriate care. To ignore him is to dismiss the
teachings of Alex Shigo- anyone claiming to understand or know about
trees without due regard for Shigo's work is one to be taken with a
pinch of salt.


The point you miss is it is Shigo's work, not Keslicks. A wannabe whose
education is a series of 2 and 3 day short courses. I wonder if he is
even a member of any national society of arborists.

"Joe" wrote:

I took the basic arborist course at U. Mass.- it was one of the best courses
I took there- we spent all our time walking the huge campus looking at sick
trees.

If it is such a good school, why do they have so many sick trees?

Most people have some illnesses, right? Same with trees.



"M. Fricker" wrote in message
...
"Joe" wrote:

I took the basic arborist course at U. Mass.- it was one of the best
courses
I took there- we spent all our time walking the huge campus looking at
sick
trees.

If it is such a good school, why do they have so many sick trees?

A healthy tree can have a thousand infections. As long as they are properly
compartmentalized the tree will do well.
I school could be teaching the right way to prune a tree but their trees
could have been flush cut and painted years ago. Its going to take some
time to get out of the flush cut wound dressing era. Just as thought as to
why trees might not be doing well and the school is teaching correctly.
Also when we studied tree biology and ASU the people who cared for trees on
campus seldom attended the workshops.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.


"Joe" wrote in message news:Ji1vi.9$hK5.3@trndny02...
Most people have some illnesses, right? Same with trees.



"M. Fricker" wrote in message
...
"Joe" wrote:

I took the basic arborist course at U. Mass.- it was one of the best
courses
I took there- we spent all our time walking the huge campus looking at
sick
trees.

If it is such a good school, why do they have so many sick trees?