http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...fa_fact_kramer

Take a step forward and then two steps back. Manifest destiny my ass.
What goes around comes around around and around.

Neil young BTW just said music won¹t change the world a few days ago.

Bill placing a seed order in a day.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
ICAO = KMIV Millville Weather
Lat 39.5982 Long -75.0358

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

In article
,
Bill wrote:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...fa_fact_kramer

Take a step forward and then two steps back. Manifest destiny my ass.
What goes around comes around around and around.

You mean like regime change in Hawaii, Nicaragua, Guatemala, El
Salvador, Chile, Panama, Iran, and Hati, and the Congo. Attempted regime
change in Cuba (300+ acknowledged assassination attempts on Fidel).
Attempted regime change in Venezuela, where we nearly got Chavezed
killed. Support for South Africa (we told them where to find Mandela).
Military support for Indonesia during the bloody repression of East
Timore. And of coure the ever popular aiding and abetting in the theft
of Palestinian land and subsequent efforts at ethnic cleansing (see
video of "Death in Gaza" if you haven't already).
Then there is the matter of the aftermath of the Watergate break ins
which lead to the "Church Committee"(1975), referring to the United
States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with
Respect to Intelligence Activities, and the Rockefeller Commission
(1975), a.k.a. U.S. President's Commission on CIA activities within the
United States which chronicled the use of the CIA and the Mafia to
assassinate world leaders and and to discredit anti-war and civil rights
leaders in the United States. All of whose good works have been undone
by the so-called "Patriot Act".
The set piece of bigotry, brutishness, ignorance, and greed that
has for so long been a given in American political life is alive and
well.


Neil young BTW just said music won¹t change the world a few days ago.

Hell, Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers were barely sufficient.


Bill placing a seed order in a day.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
ICAO = KMIV Millville Weather
Lat 39.5982 Long -75.0358

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold
From what I'm reading in "Collapse" by Jarod Diamond, most societies
that have failed, started with deforestation. So good on you Bill. I'm
also becoming convinced that planting a garden is a revolutionary act.

Viva Fidel
--

Billy

Bush, Cheney & Pelosi, Behind Bars
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/site/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
Bill wrote:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...fa_fact_kramer

Take a step forward and then two steps back. Manifest destiny my ass.
What goes around comes around around and around.

You mean like regime change in Hawaii, Nicaragua, Guatemala, El
Salvador, Chile, Panama, Iran, and Hati, and the Congo. Attempted regime
change in Cuba (300+ acknowledged assassination attempts on Fidel).
Attempted regime change in Venezuela, where we nearly got Chavezed
killed. Support for South Africa (we told them where to find Mandela).
Military support for Indonesia during the bloody repression of East
Timore. And of coure the ever popular aiding and abetting in the theft
of Palestinian land and subsequent efforts at ethnic cleansing (see
video of "Death in Gaza" if you haven't already).
Then there is the matter of the aftermath of the Watergate break ins
which lead to the "Church Committee"(1975), referring to the United
States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with
Respect to Intelligence Activities, and the Rockefeller Commission
(1975), a.k.a. U.S. President's Commission on CIA activities within the
United States which chronicled the use of the CIA and the Mafia to
assassinate world leaders and and to discredit anti-war and civil rights
leaders in the United States. All of whose good works have been undone
by the so-called "Patriot Act".
The set piece of bigotry, brutishness, ignorance, and greed that
has for so long been a given in American political life is alive and
well.


Neil young BTW just said music won¹t change the world a few days ago.

Hell, Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers were barely sufficient.


Bill placing a seed order in a day.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
ICAO = KMIV Millville Weather
Lat 39.5982 Long -75.0358

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold
From what I'm reading in "Collapse" by Jarod Diamond, most societies
that have failed, started with deforestation. So good on you Bill. I'm
also becoming convinced that planting a garden is a revolutionary act.

Viva Fidel

I read Diamond's book titled "Germs Steel etc" it's been a while.

Anyway since you like pop corn.

http://www.amazon.com/War-Game-Cullo...r_1_2?ie=UTF8&
s=dvd&qid=1203540287&sr=8-2

or

http://tinyurl.com/3577kh

Bill who wonders if the highlanders had won. Dam Campbell's must
always have the right. Anyway before I ramble on too much. This is an
5 star DVD. Been thinking about this film since I saw it on TV long
ago.

PS All I want for Christmas is A Hoag Kilt go figure.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
ICAO = KMIV Millville Weather
Lat 39.5982 Long -75.0358

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
Bill wrote:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...fa_fact_kramer

Take a step forward and then two steps back. Manifest destiny my ass.
What goes around comes around around and around.

You mean like regime change in Hawaii, Nicaragua, Guatemala, El
Salvador, Chile, Panama, Iran, and Hati, and the Congo. Attempted regime
change in Cuba (300+ acknowledged assassination attempts on Fidel).
Attempted regime change in Venezuela, where we nearly got Chavezed
killed. Support for South Africa (we told them where to find Mandela).
Military support for Indonesia during the bloody repression of East
Timore. And of coure the ever popular aiding and abetting in the theft
of Palestinian land and subsequent efforts at ethnic cleansing (see
video of "Death in Gaza" if you haven't already).
Then there is the matter of the aftermath of the Watergate break ins
which lead to the "Church Committee"(1975), referring to the United
States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with
Respect to Intelligence Activities, and the Rockefeller Commission
(1975), a.k.a. U.S. President's Commission on CIA activities within the
United States which chronicled the use of the CIA and the Mafia to
assassinate world leaders and and to discredit anti-war and civil rights
leaders in the United States. All of whose good works have been undone
by the so-called "Patriot Act".
The set piece of bigotry, brutishness, ignorance, and greed that
has for so long been a given in American political life is alive and
well.


Neil young BTW just said music won¹t change the world a few days ago.

Hell, Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers were barely sufficient.


Bill placing a seed order in a day.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
ICAO = KMIV Millville Weather
Lat 39.5982 Long -75.0358

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold
From what I'm reading in "Collapse" by Jarod Diamond, most societies
that have failed, started with deforestation. So good on you Bill. I'm
also becoming convinced that planting a garden is a revolutionary act.

Viva Fidel

I read Diamond's book titled "Germs Steel etc" it's been a while.
I preferred "Guns, Germs, & Steel" but "Collapse" is a good book too but
I have to pick up my pace with it. "Imperial life in the emerald city :
inside Iraq's green zone" is waiting for me at the library. Have you
already read "In Defense of Food"? If so, how do you compare it to
"Omnivore"? A month after requesting it, I've dropped down to #93 in
the queue. I might see it by early May.

Was it you who posted the URL for "The Dumbing Of America" by Susan
Jacoby? Imagine my surprise to turn on the radio, while making
breakfast, and having her interviewed on the local station. Another good
read, thanks.

Anyway since you like pop corn.

http://www.amazon.com/War-Game-Cullo...r_1_2?ie=UTF8&
s=dvd&qid=1203540287&sr=8-2

or

http://tinyurl.com/3577kh

Bill who wonders if the highlanders had won. Dam Campbell's must
always have the right. Anyway before I ramble on too much. This is an
5 star DVD. Been thinking about this film since I saw it on TV long
ago.

PS All I want for Christmas is A Hoag Kilt go figure.
--

Billy

Bush, Cheney & Pelosi, Behind Bars
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/site/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,

Viva Fidel

Magor export are Doctor's.

I read Diamond's book titled "Germs Steel etc" it's been a while.
I preferred "Guns, Germs, & Steel" but "Collapse" is a good book too but
I have to pick up my pace with it. "Imperial life in the emerald city :
inside Iraq's green zone" is waiting for me at the library. Have you
already read "In Defense of Food"? If so, how do you compare it to
"Omnivore"? A month after requesting it, I've dropped down to #93 in
the queue. I might see it by early May.

No need to read In "Defense of Food" unless you want a review. I need
reviews.

Was it you who posted the URL for "The Dumbing Of America" by Susan
Jacoby?

Nope.

Currently TRYING to read the "Rest is noise". Music history with
charm and human frivolities.

But...Beware you may end up purchasing things you never heard of ).

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
ICAO = KMIV Millville Weather
Lat 39.5982 Long -75.0358

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
Bill wrote:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...fa_fact_kramer

Take a step forward and then two steps back. Manifest destiny my ass.
What goes around comes around around and around.

You mean like regime change in Hawaii, Nicaragua, Guatemala, El
Salvador, Chile, Panama, Iran, and Hati, and the Congo. Attempted regime
change in Cuba (300+ acknowledged assassination attempts on Fidel).
Attempted regime change in Venezuela, where we nearly got Chavezed
killed. Support for South Africa (we told them where to find Mandela).
Military support for Indonesia during the bloody repression of East
Timore. And of coure the ever popular aiding and abetting in the theft
of Palestinian land and subsequent efforts at ethnic cleansing (see
video of "Death in Gaza" if you haven't already).
Then there is the matter of the aftermath of the Watergate break ins
which lead to the "Church Committee"(1975), referring to the United
States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with
Respect to Intelligence Activities, and the Rockefeller Commission
(1975), a.k.a. U.S. President's Commission on CIA activities within the
United States which chronicled the use of the CIA and the Mafia to
assassinate world leaders and and to discredit anti-war and civil rights
leaders in the United States. All of whose good works have been undone
by the so-called "Patriot Act".
The set piece of bigotry, brutishness, ignorance, and greed that
has for so long been a given in American political life is alive and
well.


Neil young BTW just said music won¹t change the world a few days ago.

Hell, Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers were barely sufficient.


Bill placing a seed order in a day.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
ICAO = KMIV Millville Weather
Lat 39.5982 Long -75.0358

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold
From what I'm reading in "Collapse" by Jarod Diamond, most societies
that have failed, started with deforestation. So good on you Bill. I'm
also becoming convinced that planting a garden is a revolutionary act.

Viva Fidel

I read Diamond's book titled "Germs Steel etc" it's been a while.

Anyway since you like pop corn.

http://www.amazon.com/War-Game-Cullo...r_1_2?ie=UTF8&
s=dvd&qid=1203540287&sr=8-2

or

http://tinyurl.com/3577kh

Bill who wonders if the highlanders had won. Dam Campbell's must
always have the right. Anyway before I ramble on too much. This is an
5 star DVD. Been thinking about this film since I saw it on TV long
ago.

This realism is like an x-ray machine, it needs to be taken in small
doses, otherwise it can fry the brain. I just finished watching "Osama",
a Pashtun film. It makes "Death in Gaza" seem like a musical comedy. I
got to get the bad taste out of mouth before I watch anything like that
again. Oh, for anyone reading the post, it isn't bin Laden.

In a lighter vein, a Hoag Kilt? Hope you have the legs for it. Not to
mention a sharp wintery breeze could freeze your knickers and anything
else in that general vicinity. Except for the connection to the Scottish
film "Culloden". I don't see the connection. Might there be a site where
I could feast my eyes on a handsome Hoad plaid?

PS All I want for Christmas is A Hoag Kilt go figure.
When I think of Scotland, I think of Scotch and John Knox. With any luck
at all the former will wash away the memory of the latter. I hope that
Scottish pubs are as welcoming as Irish pubs, where a man can go and
drink, and become bellicose, lachrymose, and comatose of an evening.

'ere's mud in your eye.
--

Billy

Bush, Cheney & Pelosi, Behind Bars
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/site/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,

Viva Fidel

Major export are Doctor's.

And soldiers. When Cuban-Americans and Americans chided Nelson Mandela
for his support of Fidel, he upbraided them by asking where in the hell
they were when he needed help, Fidel sent soldiers and doctors.

I read Diamond's book titled "Germs Steel etc" it's been a while.
I preferred "Guns, Germs, & Steel" but "Collapse" is a good book too but
I have to pick up my pace with it. "Imperial life in the emerald city :
inside Iraq's green zone" is waiting for me at the library. Have you
already read "In Defense of Food"? If so, how do you compare it to
"Omnivore"? A month after requesting it, I've dropped down to #93 in
the queue. I might see it by early May.

No need to read In "Defense of Food" unless you want a review. I need
reviews.

Was it you who posted the URL for "The Dumbing Of America" by Susan
Jacoby?

Nope.

Currently TRYING to read the "Rest is noise". Music history with
charm and human frivolities.

But...Beware you may end up purchasing things you never heard of ).
Arrg. The curse of late night impulsive internet shopping:-(

Bill
--

Billy

Bush, Cheney & Pelosi, Behind Bars
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/site/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush

In article
,
Billy wrote:

Hoag Kilt

http://kiltstore.net/tartan/Hogg/57089

Bill whose calfs were 18 inch till the statin struck him down to 14.
Then no more.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
ICAO = KMIV Millville Weather
Lat 39.5982 Long -75.0358

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

In article
,
Billy wrote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2/15/AR2008021
502901.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR

washingtonpost.com Opinions Outlook
The Dumbing Of America
Call Me a Snob, but Really, We're a Nation of Dunces
By Susan Jacoby
Sunday, February 17, 2008; Page B01

"The mind of this country, taught to aim at low objects, eats upon
itself." Ralph Waldo Emerson offered that observation in 1837, but his
words echo with painful prescience in today's very different United
States. Americans are in serious intellectual trouble -- in danger of
losing our hard-won cultural capital to a virulent mixture of
anti-intellectualism, anti-rationalism and low expectations.

This is the last subject that any candidate would dare raise on the long
and winding road to the White House. It is almost impossible to talk
about the manner in which public ignorance contributes to grave national
problems without being labeled an "elitist," one of the most powerful
pejoratives that can be applied to anyone aspiring to high office.
Instead, our politicians repeatedly assure Americans that they are just
"folks," a patronizing term that you will search for in vain in
important presidential speeches before 1980. (Just imagine: "We here
highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain . . . and
that government of the folks, by the folks, for the folks, shall not
perish from the earth.") Such exaltations of ordinariness are among the
distinguishing traits of anti-intellectualism in any era.

The classic work on this subject by Columbia University historian
Richard Hofstadter, "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life," was
published in early 1963, between the anti-communist crusades of the
McCarthy era and the social convulsions of the late 1960s. Hofstadter
saw American anti-intellectualism as a basically cyclical phenomenon
that often manifested itself as the dark side of the country's
democratic impulses in religion and education. But today's brand of
anti-intellectualism is less a cycle than a flood. If Hofstadter (who
died of leukemia in 1970 at age 54) had lived long enough to write a
modern-day sequel, he would have found that our era of 24/7 infotainment
has outstripped his most apocalyptic predictions about the future of
American culture.

Dumbness, to paraphrase the late senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, has
been steadily defined downward for several decades, by a combination of
heretofore irresistible forces. These include the triumph of video
culture over print culture (and by video, I mean every form of digital
media, as well as older electronic ones); a disjunction between
Americans' rising level of formal education and their shaky grasp of
basic geography, science and history; and the fusion of anti-rationalism
with anti-intellectualism.

First and foremost among the vectors of the new anti-intellectualism is
video. The decline of book, newspaper and magazine reading is by now an
old story. The drop-off is most pronounced among the young, but it
continues to accelerate and afflict Americans of all ages and education
levels.

Reading has declined not only among the poorly educated, according to a
report last year by the National Endowment for the Arts. In 1982, 82
percent of college graduates read novels or poems for pleasure; two
decades later, only 67 percent did. And more than 40 percent of
Americans under 44 did not read a single book -- fiction or nonfiction
-- over the course of a year. The proportion of 17-year-olds who read
nothing (unless required to do so for school) more than doubled between
1984 and 2004. This time period, of course, encompasses the rise of
personal computers, Web surfing and video games.

Does all this matter? Technophiles pooh-pooh jeremiads about the end of
print culture as the navel-gazing of (what else?) elitists. In his book
"Everything Bad Is Good for You: How Today's Popular Culture Is Actually
Making Us Smarter," the science writer Steven Johnson assures us that we
have nothing to worry about. Sure, parents may see their "vibrant and
active children gazing silently, mouths agape, at the screen." But these
zombie-like characteristics "are not signs of mental atrophy. They're
signs of focus." Balderdash. The real question is what toddlers are
screening out, not what they are focusing on, while they sit mesmerized
by videos they have seen dozens of times.

Despite an aggressive marketing campaign aimed at encouraging babies as
young as 6 months to watch videos, there is no evidence that focusing on
a screen is anything but bad for infants and toddlers. In a study
released last August, University of Washington researchers found that
babies between 8 and 16 months recognized an average of six to eight
fewer words for every hour spent watching videos.

I cannot prove that reading for hours in a treehouse (which is what I
was doing when I was 13) creates more informed citizens than hammering
away at a Microsoft Xbox or obsessing about Facebook profiles. But the
inability to concentrate for long periods of time -- as distinct from
brief reading hits for information on the Web -- seems to me intimately
related to the inability of the public to remember even recent news
events. It is not surprising, for example, that less has been heard from
the presidential candidates about the Iraq war in the later stages of
the primary campaign than in the earlier ones, simply because there have
been fewer video reports of violence in Iraq. Candidates, like voters,
emphasize the latest news, not necessarily the most important news.

No wonder negative political ads work. "With text, it is even easy to
keep track of differing levels of authority behind different pieces of
information," the cultural critic Caleb Crain noted recently in the New
Yorker. "A comparison of two video reports, on the other hand, is
cumbersome. Forced to choose between conflicting stories on television,
the viewer falls back on hunches, or on what he believed before he
started watching."

As video consumers become progressively more impatient with the process
of acquiring information through written language, all politicians find
themselves under great pressure to deliver their messages as quickly as
possible -- and quickness today is much quicker than it used to be.
Harvard University's Kiku Adatto found that between 1968 and 1988, the
average sound bite on the news for a presidential candidate -- featuring
the candidate's own voice -- dropped from 42.3 seconds to 9.8 seconds.
By 2000, according to another Harvard study, the daily candidate bite
was down to just 7.8 seconds.

The shrinking public attention span fostered by video is closely tied to
the second important anti-intellectual force in American cultu the
erosion of general knowledge.

People accustomed to hearing their president explain complicated policy
choices by snapping "I'm the decider" may find it almost impossible to
imagine the pains that Franklin D. Roosevelt took, in the grim months
after Pearl Harbor, to explain why U.S. armed forces were suffering one
defeat after another in the Pacific. In February 1942, Roosevelt urged
Americans to spread out a map during his radio "fireside chat" so that
they might better understand the geography of battle. In stores
throughout the country, maps sold out; about 80 percent of American
adults tuned in to hear the president. FDR had told his speechwriters
that he was certain that if Americans understood the immensity of the
distances over which supplies had to travel to the armed forces, "they
can take any kind of bad news right on the chin."

This is a portrait not only of a different presidency and president but
also of a different country and citizenry, one that lacked access to
satellite-enhanced Google maps but was far more receptive to learning
and complexity than today's public. According to a 2006 survey by
National Geographic-Roper, nearly half of Americans between ages 18 and
24 do not think it necessary to know the location of other countries in
which important news is being made. More than a third consider it "not
at all important" to know a foreign language, and only 14 percent
consider it "very important."

That leads us to the third and final factor behind the new American
dumbness: not lack of knowledge per se but arrogance about that lack of
knowledge. The problem is not just the things we do not know (consider
the one in five American adults who, according to the National Science
Foundation, thinks the sun revolves around the Earth); it's the alarming
number of Americans who have smugly concluded that they do not need to
know such things in the first place. Call this anti-rationalism -- a
syndrome that is particularly dangerous to our public institutions and
discourse. Not knowing a foreign language or the location of an
important country is a manifestation of ignorance; denying that such
knowledge matters is pure anti-rationalism. The toxic brew of
anti-rationalism and ignorance hurts discussions of U.S. public policy
on topics from health care to taxation.

There is no quick cure for this epidemic of arrogant anti-rationalism
and anti-intellectualism; rote efforts to raise standardized test scores
by stuffing students with specific answers to specific questions on
specific tests will not do the job. Moreover, the people who exemplify
the problem are usually oblivious to it. ("Hardly anyone believes
himself to be against thought and culture," Hofstadter noted.) It is
past time for a serious national discussion about whether, as a nation,
we truly value intellect and rationality. If this indeed turns out to be
a "change election," the low level of discourse in a country with a mind
taught to aim at low objects ought to be the first item on the change
agenda.


--

Billy

Bush, Cheney & Pelosi, Behind Bars
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/site/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush

In article
,
Billy wrote:

"Hardly anyone believes
himself to be against thought and culture," Hofstadter noted.) It is
past time for a serious national discussion about whether, as a nation,
we truly value intellect and rationality. If this indeed turns out to be
a "change election," the low level of discourse in a country with a mind
taught to aim at low objects ought to be the first item on the change
agenda.

And when I saw America you know it blew my mind

Thanks to Charlie.

New York 1963 - America 1968 18:49 Eric Burdon & The Animals

Every One Of Us Rock 100

Wonder what we deserve.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
ICAO = KMIV Millville Weather
Lat 39.5982 Long -75.0358

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

In article
,
Bill wrote:


And when I saw America you know it blew my mind

Thanks to Charlie.

I sure hope that they remembered that he was wedged under the log, out
in the yard. It's been gettin' cool at night, up there along the Iowa
border.

New York 1963 - America 1968 18:49 Eric Burdon & The Animals

Every One Of Us Rock 100

Wonder what we deserve.

Better, much better;-)


Bill
--

Billy

Bush, Cheney & Pelosi, Behind Bars
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/site/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush

In article ,
Charlie Underlogg wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:48:41 -0800, Billy wrote:

In article
,
Bill wrote:


And when I saw America you know it blew my mind

Thanks to Charlie.

I sure hope that they remembered that he was wedged under the log, out
in the yard. It's been gettin' cool at night, up there along the Iowa
border.

Ahhh, indeed....'tis comforting that someone remembers poor old
Charlie, mouldering under the log, suffering in his "self-imposed"
exile. As the mood came upon me, I needed to abandon the party for a
while. Much to the chagrin of many of youse, said exile *may* be
coming to it's usual, temporary end. Cycles of life.

Such is life.

Cool doesn't quite do justice to what lies under the log here, Billy!
It is effing cold here, and this is really unusual for mid Feb round
these here parts, for this long a period. 2F right now as I return
from viewing the eclipse. And it looks to continue for a spell.
(pssssssst, can you say climate change).

Lots of thinking was done this winter, mostly not of the "uplifting"
sort. Working thru life and possible futures, yet *trying* to remain
grounded in, and aware of, the immediate moment. Whew.

"If way to the better there be, it exacts a full look at the worst."
~Thomas Hardy

Lots of truth there and wisdom to be gained from adopting that
viewpoint, my friend.

Trying to catch up on some long neglected literary work, freely
available from the Gutenberg Project, but am having some vision
difficulties due to vitreous hemorrhage in my spare eyeball, though it
is slowly resolving and improving, due in part to a self-developed
herbal and nutritional program and in part to time. Spent the better
part of several months sober, with the help of one particular herb,
believe it or not. Said herb also aids in moderation, as I am not
willing to give up my breakfast barleywine. All this will no doubt
lead to further discussions of herbal efficacy related to BP and
various other ailments that plague mankind (I dropped BP from 195/125
to 145/85 and eliminated pain from Arthur in a couple months with herbs
alone. P***ing like a horse, I am.)

Lots of gardening ideas in me addled pate. The ice storm we had before
Xmas eliminated the large tree in the patio area, so the area will be
converted to edible landscaping. Will be fun and a good exercise in
containers and small raised beds and support systems.

I see OtherBill has re-invented his name. Greetings to ya' again,
otherBill W. I have lots of new/old music......it was a great comfort
during the really dim vision times.

At any rate, I'm checking out opening the blinds again and seeing what
is happening "out there".

Watch yer back, old man........I must assume you are keeping abreast of
current events! ;-)

Care
Charlie
Old man! Smarty pants wippersnapper, I oughtln' be bending you over my
knee and givin' you a damn good hiding. Hurummph.

I been keepin' an eye on you boy, just glad you ain't froze your kester
off. Looks damn cold from where I sit. Thank god the rain is here. I was
running out of firewood.

Anyway, you been under that log long enough. Time to give some other
poor critter a chance to hunker down. Glad you showed up. The regulars
are startin' to go at each other again. What they really need is some
fresh meat to claw at.

Nice to have you back.
--

Billy

Bush, Cheney & Pelosi, Behind Bars
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/site/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush

In alt.fifty-plus.friends saw this and thought of you folks.

Bill

Perhaps music can change things.

..........................


In article ,
"Normandy" wrote:



piJoe you are wrong

Pete Seeger quit the Communist party in 1950. To me Pete Seegar was a
hero. He stood up to Senator McCarthy and the House Un-American
Activities Committee. I can think of no thing more un-American that the
House Un-American Activities Committee
His group, the Weavers were blacklisted, resulting in cancelled concert
dates and the loss of their recording contract with Decca Records. Under
congressional subpoena to testify before the House Un-American Activities
Committee, Mr Seeger asserted his Fifth Amendment rights, he told the
McCarty inspired committee, "I am not going to answer any questions as to
my associations, my philosophical or my religious beliefs, or how I voted
in any election or any of these private affairs. I think these are very
improper questions for any American to be asked." Unlike many
entertainers and writers who careers were ruined in the McCarthy era, Mr
Seeger stood his ground even though he was sent to jail for defending his
beliefs. I disagree with many of his political ideas but by his actions
he defined an American hero, a true patriot .



There is a brilliant youtube on Zero Mostel
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM_Tjc1H1t4. An actor who fought back


I'm not wrong. McCarthy didn't target those people.

PiJoe you are as far as I know correct it was the most un-American
congressional group called the House Committee on Un-American Activities
(HUAC) Hear are the words of a patriot, Pete Seeger. I strongly disagree
with his politics his politics but I am able to recognise a real American
hero

In the following testimony before HUAC, Mr Seeger refused to invoke the
Fifth Amendment, protecting citizens from self-incrimination. Instead he
insisted that the Committee had no right to question him regarding his
political beliefs or associations. This strategy resulted in prison terms
for contempt of Congress for the Hollywood Ten in 1947. Mr Seeger himself
was sentenced to a year in prison for contempt, but the verdict was reversed
in 1962. Nevertheless, Mr Seeger remained on a network television blacklist
until the late 1960s.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Testimony of Pete Seeger before the House Un-American Activities Committee,
August 18, 1955

. . . Mr. TAVENNER: The Committee has information obtained in part from the
Daily Worker indicating that, over a period of time, especially since
December of 1945, you took part in numerous entertainment features. I have
before me a photostatic copy of the June 20, 1947, issue of the Daily
Worker. In a column entitled "What's On" appears this advertisement:
"Tonight-Bronx, hear Peter Seeger and his guitar, at Allerton Section
housewarming." May I ask you whether or not the Allerton Section was a
section of the Communist Party?

Mr. SEEGER: Sir, I refuse to answer that question whether it was a quote
from the New York Times or the Vegetarian Journal.

Mr. TAVENNER: I don't believe there is any more authoritative document in
regard to the Communist Party than its official organ, the Daily Worker.

Mr. SCHERER: He hasn't answered the question, and he merely said he wouldn't
answer whether the article appeared in the New York Times or some other
magazine. I ask you to direct the witness to answer the question.

Chairman WALTER: I direct you to answer.

Mr. SEEGER: Sir, the whole line of questioning-

Chairman WALTER: You have only been asked one question, so far.

Mr. SEEGER: I am not going to answer any questions as to my association, my
philosophical or religious beliefs or my political beliefs, or how I voted
in any election, or any of these private affairs. I think these are very
improper questions for any American to be asked, especially under such
compulsion as this. I would be very glad to tell you my life if you want to
hear of it.

Mr. TAVENNER: Has the witness declined to answer this specific question?

Chairman WALTER: He said that he is not going to answer any questions, any
names or things.

Mr. SCHERER: He was directed to answer the question.

Mr. TAVENNER: I have before me a photostatic copy of the April 30, 1948,
issue of the Daily Worker which carries under the same title of "What's On,"
an advertisement of a "May Day Rally: For Peace, Security and Democracy."
The advertisement states: "Are you in a fighting mood? Then attend the May
Day rally." Expert speakers are stated to be slated for the program, and
then follows a statement, "Entertainment by Pete Seeger." At the bottom
appears this: "Auspices Essex County Communist Party," and at the top,
"Tonight, Newark, N.J." Did you lend your talent to the Essex County
Communist Party on the occasion indicated by this article from the Daily
Worker?

Mr. SEEGER: Mr. Walter, I believe I have already answered this question, and
the same answer.

Chairman WALTER: The same answer. In other words, you mean that you decline
to answer because of the reasons stated before?

Mr. SEEGER: I gave my answer, sir.

Chairman WALTER: What is your answer?

Mr. SEEGER: You see, sir, I feel-

Chairman WALTER: What is your answer?

Mr. SEEGER: I will tell you what my answer is.

I feel that in my whole life I have never done anything of any
conspiratorial nature and I resent very much and very deeply the implication
of being called before this Committee that in some way because my opinions
may be different from yours, or yours, Mr. Willis, or yours, Mr. Scherer,
that I am any less of an American than anybody else. I love my country very
deeply, sir.

Chairman WALTER: Why don't you make a little contribution toward preserving
its institutions?

Mr. SEEGER: I feel that my whole life is a contribution. That is why I would
like to tell you about it.

Chairman WALTER: I don't want to hear about it.

Mr. SCHERER: I think that there must be a direction to answer.

Chairman WALTER: I direct you to answer that question.

Mr. SEEGER: I have already given you my answer, sir.

Mr. SCHERER: Let me understand. You are not relying on the Fifth Amendment,
are you?

Mr. SEEGER: No, sir, although I do not want to in any way discredit or
depreciate or depredate the witnesses that have used the Fifth Amendment,
and I simply feel it is improper for this committee to ask such questions.

Mr. SCHERER: And then in answering the rest of the questions, or in refusing
to answer the rest of the questions, I understand that you are not relying
on the Fifth Amendment as a basis for your refusal to answer?

Mr. SEEGER: No, I am not, sir. . . .

Mr. TAVENNER: You said that you would tell us about the songs. Did you
participate in a program at Wingdale Lodge in the State of New York, which
is a summer camp for adults and children, on the weekend of July Fourth of
this year?

(Witness consulted with counsel.)

Mr. SEEGER: Again, I say I will be glad to tell what songs I have ever sung,
because singing is my business.

Mr. TAVENNER: I am going to ask you.

Mr. SEEGER: But I decline to say who has ever listened to them, who has
written them, or other people who have sung them.

Mr. TAVENNER: Did you sing this song, to which we have referred, "Now Is the
Time," at Wingdale Lodge on the weekend of July Fourth?

Mr. SEEGER: I don't know any song by that name, and I know a song with a
similar name. It is called "Wasn't That a Time." Is that the song?

Chairman WALTER: Did you sing that song?

Mr. SEEGER: I can sing it. I don't know how well I can do it without my
banjo.

Chairman WALTER: I said, Did you sing it on that occasion?

Mr. SEEGER: I have sung that song. I am not going to go into where I have
sung it. I have sung it many places.

Chairman WALTER: Did you sing it on this particular occasion? That is what
you are being asked.

Mr. SEEGER: Again my answer is the same.

Chairman WALTER: You said that you would tell us about it.

Mr. SEEGER: I will tell you about the songs, but I am not going to tell you
or try to explain-

Chairman WALTER: I direct you to answer the question. Did you sing this
particular song on the Fourth of July at Wingdale Lodge in New York?

Mr. SEEGER: I have already given you my answer to that question, and all
questions such as that. I feel that is improper: to ask about my
associations and opinions. I have said that I would be voluntarily glad to
tell you any song, or what I have done in my life.

Chairman WALTER: I think it is my duty to inform you that we don't accept
this answer and the others, and I give you an opportunity now to answer
these questions, particularly the last one.

Mr. SEEGER: Sir, my answer is always the same.

Chairman WALTER: All right, go ahead, Mr. Tavenner.

Mr. TAVENNER: Were you chosen by Mr. Elliott Sullivan to take part in the
program on the weekend of July Fourth at Wingdale Lodge?

Mr. SEEGER: The answer is the same, sir.

Mr. WILLIS: Was that the occasion of the satire on the Constitution and the
Bill of Rights?

Mr. TAVENNER: The same occasion, yes, sir. I have before me a photostatic
copy of a page from the June 1, 1949, issue of the Daily Worker, and in a
column entitled "Town Talk" there is found this statement:

The first performance of a new song, "If I Had a Hammer," on the theme of
the Foley Square trial of the Communist leaders, will be given at a
testimonial dinner for the 12 on Friday night at St. Nicholas Arena. . .
.Among those on hand for the singing will be . . . Pete Seeger, and Lee
Hays-

and others whose names are mentioned. Did you take part in that performance?

Mr. SEEGER: I shall be glad to answer about the song, sir, and I am not
interested in carrying on the line of questioning about where I have sung
any songs.

Mr. TAVENNER: I ask a direction.

Chairman WALTER: You may not be interested, but we are, however. I direct
you to answer. You can answer that question.

Mr. SEEGER: I feel these questions are improper, sir, and I feel they are
immoral to ask any American this kind of question.

Mr. TAVENNER: Have you finished your answer?

Mr. SEEGER: Yes, sir. . . .

Mr. TAVENNER: Did you hear Mr. George Hall's testimony yesterday in which he
stated that, as an actor, the special contribution that he was expected to
make to the Communist Party was to use his talents by entertaining at
Communist Party functions? Did you hear that testimony?

Mr. SEEGER: I didn't hear it, no.

Mr. TAVENNER: It is a fact that he so testified. I want to know whether or
not you were engaged in a similar type of service to the Communist Party in
entertaining at these features.

(Witness consulted with counsel.)

Mr. SEEGER: I have sung for Americans of every political persuasion, and I
am proud that I never refuse to sing to an audience, no matter what religion
or color of their skin, or situation in life. I have sung in hobo jungles,
and I have sung for the Rockefellers, and I am proud that I have never
refused to sing for anybody. That is the only answer I can give along that
line.

Chairman WALTER: Mr. Tavenner, are you getting around to that letter? There
was a letter introduced yesterday that I think was of greater importance
than any bit of evidence adduced at these hearings, concerning the attempt
made to influence people in this professional performers' guild and union to
assist a purely Communist cause which had no relation whatsoever to the arts
and the theater. Is that what you are leading up to?

Mr. TAVENNER: Yes, it is. That was the letter of Peter Lawrence, which I
questioned him about yesterday. That related to the trial of the Smith Act
defendants here at Foley Square. I am trying to inquire now whether this
witness was party to the same type of propaganda effort by the Communist
Party.

Mr. SCHERER: There has been no answer to your last question.

Mr. TAVENNER: That is right; may I have a direction?

Mr. SEEGER: Would you repeat the question? I don't even know what the last
question was, and I thought I have answered all of them up to now.

Mr. TAVENNER: What you stated was not in response to the question.

Chairman WALTER: Proceed with the questioning, Mr. Tavenner.

Mr. TAVENNER: I believe, Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I will have the
question read to him. I think it should be put in exactly the same form.

(Whereupon the reporter read the pending question as above recorded.)

Mr. SEEGER: "These features": what do you mean? Except for the answer I have
already given you, I have no answer. The answer I gave you you have, don't
you? That is, that I am proud that I have sung for Americans of every
political persuasion, and I have never refused to sing for anybody because I
disagreed with their political opinion, and I am proud of the fact that my
songs seem to cut across and find perhaps a unifying thing, basic humanity,
and that is why I would love to be able to tell you about these songs,
because I feel that you would agree with me more, sir. I know many beautiful
songs from your home county, Carbon, and Monroe, and I hitchhiked through
there and stayed in the homes of miners.

Mr. TAVENNER: My question was whether or not you sang at these functions of
the Communist Party. You have answered it inferentially, and if I understand
your answer, you are saying you did.

Mr. SEEGER: Except for that answer, I decline to answer further. . . .

Mr. SCHERER: Do you understand it is the feeling of the Committee that you
are in contempt as a result of the position you take?

Mr. SEEGER: I can't say.

Mr. SCHERER: I am telling you that that is the position of the Committee. .
. .


Mr. SEEGER: I decline to discuss, under compulsion, where I have sung, and
who has sung my songs, and who else has sung with me, and the people I have
known. I love my country very dearly, and I greatly resent this implication
that some of the places that I have sung and some of the people that I have
known, and some of my opinions, whether they are religious or philosophical,
or I might be a vegetarian, make me any less of an American. I will tell you
about my songs, but I am not interested in telling you who wrote them, and I
will tell you about my songs, and I am not interested in who listened to
them. . . .

Source: Congress, House, Committee on Un-American Activities, Investigation
of Communist Activities, New York Area (Entertainment): Hearings, 84th
Congress, August 18, 1955

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
ICAO = KMIV Millville Weather
Lat 39.5982 Long -75.0358

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant
a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

Worth a look Video. Might not be about for long.

Bill

....................

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0...-how-t_n_88110
..html

Or

http://tinyurl.com/2rzmt5

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
ICAO = KMIV Millville Weather
Lat 39.5982 Long -75.0358

In article
,
Bill wrote:

.html

Thanks for the heads up Bill. Although, the video was too tame for my
taste, I am amazed that it made it on to corporate television.

You might want to look for "The Power of Nightmares". It was first
screened on BBC Two in Autumn 2004 as a series of three one hour
documentaries questioning whether the threat of terrorism to the West is
a politically driven fantasy and if al-Qaeda really is an organised
network.
I've heard some audio out-takes and it sounds pretty good.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/4202741.stm

It looks like Netflix may make it available but no release date has been
set.
http://www.netflix.com/Movie/The_Pow...90?trkid=22687
2

It's available on eBay for $12 or double that at Amazon's main site or
$12 at a satellite store,
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...p_2/103-669806
3-9885460?ie=UTF8&qid=1203878792&sr=1-2

or contact me.
--

Billy

Bush, Cheney & Pelosi, Behind Bars
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/site/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush