"Frank" frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote in message
enigma wrote:
Frank frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote in

I spent 20 years in textile fibers R&D. How bout yourself?

seriously? and you still claim that manmade fibers are more
enviromentally sound?
tell me, how long does it take nylon to biodegrade? can it easily be
recycled into paper? hemp & linen are both very strong fibers. cloth made
from them lasts many decades, but, should styles change or whatever, they
will easily be recyleable into pulp, or break down in compost.
(snip)

Basically you have to look at the entire life cycle of the material from
cradle to grave and include environmental needs. I have not seen a study
on hemp but recall such a comparison of cotton versus polyester.

You've seen "a study"? That study was on cotton. Have you seen one on hemp
vs petrochemicals?

This was an old study which would need updating but overall superiority of
polyester was largely due to durability of clothing and much lower energy
consumption in drying apparel.

To reach such a conclusion the study you quote must have concluded that all
clothes use an electricity supply for drying clothes.

Did it cover any more than just those who would be a limited number of end
users world wide who use such energy for clothes drying?

Most people think that natural fibers are more environmentally friendly
but if you farm, you know that a lot of energy goes into plowing,
planting, growing and harvesting.

That is a sweeping generalisation that surprises me coming from someone who
claims your experience. Wool is a natural fibre and requires no ploughing,
or planting.

The natural materials are harder to
process as they contain debris like seeds and dirt that must be separated.
I was also familiar with acetate and rayon fibers from cellulose, often
cotton waste, but these were phased out by industry largely due to
difficult, messy processes requiring a lot of costly pollution control.

Hemp probably has a niche in the market but I doubt it would ever be a
growing one.

It's more than "probably". It does have a niche market but it is growing
and not only in clothes production.

When it comes to clothing fibre, hemp, like wool and linen, is being
increasingly sought after by those who have an interest in quality. These
quality issues relate to factors like wearability and drape which isn't
replicated in petrochemical based fibre.

It also has a growing market/interest as a carbon sink crop and for
production of other items such as those Lee described (including biodiesel)
and also for paper and soap production and is still used for canvas
production.

Lee

I believe you have more correct knowledge on the topic.

I have a dream to be a hemp farmer some day, legally.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.

"enigma" wrote in message
. ..
Frank frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote in news:ka-
:

I spent 20 years in textile fibers R&D. How bout yourself?

seriously? and you still claim that manmade fibers are more
enviromentally sound?
tell me, how long does it take nylon to biodegrade? can it
easily be recycled into paper?

hemp & linen are both very strong fibers. cloth made from them
lasts many decades, but, should styles change or whatever,
they will easily be recyleable into pulp, or break down in
compost.
fiber hemp doesn't contain the THC that the "drug" marijuana
does. it can grow in marginal soil with no pesticide
intervention (unlike cotton). it's also useful for biodeisel
applications.
i have no particular interest in marijuana. i'm violently
allergic to the smoke. however, hemp would be a wonderful crop
to utilize sections of my farm that isn't suitable for other
cash crops. keeping it illeagal is doing a disservice to
farmers & the "but it looks like pot" line is just stupid.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...


It also has a growing market/interest as a carbon sink crop and for
production of other items such as those Lee described (including
biodiesel) and also for paper and soap production and is still used for
canvas production.


The Conestoga Wagon Covers were made from hemp.

I am trying to find someone to make me a replica flag of George Washington
made from hemp. I really do not think our forefathers mattered much with
the THC content. If anyone knows of else, please let me know.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.

Frank frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote in
:

Basically you have to look at the entire life cycle of the
material from
cradle to grave and include environmental needs. I have
not seen a
study on hemp but recall such a comparison of cotton versus
polyester.

i agree that polyesters vs cotton may very well be more
enviromentally sound. cotton is not an eviromentally friendly
crop in any way. it needs irrigation & heavy schedules of
fertilizer, pesticides & herbicides. there are 'greener'
strains of cotton, but most of them are colored & have shorter
staple length, so not as attractive to large mills.
OTOH, polyester gives me hives & if i dry it in a dryer, the
smell makes me ill, & unfortunately that includes fabrics with
a little as 10% poly.

Most people think that natural fibers are more
environmentally friendly but if you farm, you know that a
lot of energy goes into plowing, planting, growing and
harvesting. The natural materials are harder to process as
they contain debris like seeds and dirt that must be
separated.

i see you don't know bast fiber prep then. unlike cotton,
seeds & dirt aren't an issue.
flax (linen) is a bit pickier about weeding than hemp, which
*is* a weed & will crowd out other weeds. both need to be
retted (soaked in water to break down the softer tissues),
then spun. hand retting is a bit labor intensive, but we've
had big mills that can do it easily for several centuries now.
prior to the invention of an improved mechanical cotton gin in
1792, cotton was barely a viable crop in the US. most cloth at
that time was linen, hemp or wool, maybe silk if you were
quite wealthy.

I was also familiar with acetate and rayon
fibers from cellulose, often cotton waste, but these were
phased out by industry largely due to difficult, messy
processes requiring a lot of costly pollution control.

i need to research how China manufactures bamboo fiber. it's
touted as 'earth friendly', and renewable... but it's still a
cellulose fiber & those are pretty polluting.

Hemp probably has a niche in the market but I doubt it
would ever be a growing one.

it will never have a growing market as long as the pulp &
chemical company lobbies are against it. the marijuana
hysteria was started by Hearst because hemp was competing with
his wood pulp. hemp paper was cheaper to produce, more durable
& didn't yellow... it was cutting into his profits. the
chemical giants know hemp farmers don't need to buy any of
their products, so they don't want any cropland devoted to it.
it's all about money.


lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

In article ,
"Dioclese" NONE wrote:

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Frank" frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote in message
. ..
Zootal wrote:


I vote to legalize it. Let the stupid and weak drug themselves to death.
It will clean up the gene pool. The quality and realibility of the drugs
will stabalize, and much of the crime associated with drugs will go
away.

I don't care about the drug part, but the Woody Harrelsons and Simplest
person here, tout hemp for fabric and rope uses which to me is just a
disguise for the stronger drug containing versions. Hemp as a fiber went
out with invention of nylon and other man mades which are not only far
superior but in the long run more environmentally friendly because they
consume less resources along with being superior products.

Obviously you believe in the never ending forest. Keep cutting and they
will come back the way they were (not happening) Growing hemp could
greatly reduce impact on forest for pulp for paper.
The first flag was hemp.
Ben's Kite string was hemp.
Constitution was on hemp.
As far as tree ropes go I will stick with the ones (synthetic) but there
is no reason hemp could not be produced for paper.

Hemp for paper is a great old idea. And it is better than suicide which
was mentioned here as a solution for environmental issues.
http://www.votehemp.com/


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and
other abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.



The "never-ending" theorem was taught (taught still?) as part of the
Louisiana Purchase train of thought in most public schools. Followed by "go
west, young man". And other fairy tales in such old Hollywood movie
fabrications as well. Another is Seward's Folly ala Alaska being something
equally for something to be tamed and domesticated. It ain't just the trees
either.

You left out the "Mother" of them all, "Greenland".
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1016232.html

In article ,
Frank frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote:

enigma wrote:
Frank frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote in
:

Zootal wrote:
I vote to legalize it. Let the stupid and weak drug
themselves to death. It will clean up the gene pool. The
quality and realibility of the drugs will stabalize, and
much of the crime associated with drugs will go away.


I don't care about the drug part, but the Woody Harrelsons
and Simplest person here, tout hemp for fabric and rope
uses which to me is just a disguise for the stronger drug
containing versions. Hemp as a fiber went out with
invention of nylon and other man mades which are not only
far superior but in the long run more environmentally
friendly because
they consume less resources along with being superior
products.

obviously you know *nothing* about production of manmade
fibers, especially not versus hemp or linen.
lee

I spent 20 years in textile fibers R&D. How bout yourself?

I spent 20 years in hemp. What's your point?
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1016232.html

In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Frank" frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote in message
enigma wrote:
Frank frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote in

I spent 20 years in textile fibers R&D. How bout yourself?

seriously? and you still claim that manmade fibers are more
enviromentally sound?
tell me, how long does it take nylon to biodegrade? can it easily be
recycled into paper? hemp & linen are both very strong fibers. cloth made
from them lasts many decades, but, should styles change or whatever, they
will easily be recyleable into pulp, or break down in compost.
(snip)

Basically you have to look at the entire life cycle of the material from
cradle to grave and include environmental needs. I have not seen a study
on hemp but recall such a comparison of cotton versus polyester.

You've seen "a study"? That study was on cotton. Have you seen one on hemp
vs petrochemicals?

This was an old study which would need updating but overall superiority of
polyester was largely due to durability of clothing and much lower energy
consumption in drying apparel.

To reach such a conclusion the study you quote must have concluded that all
clothes use an electricity supply for drying clothes.

Did it cover any more than just those who would be a limited number of end
users world wide who use such energy for clothes drying?

Most people think that natural fibers are more environmentally friendly
but if you farm, you know that a lot of energy goes into plowing,
planting, growing and harvesting.

That is a sweeping generalisation that surprises me coming from someone who
claims your experience. Wool is a natural fibre and requires no ploughing,
or planting.

The natural materials are harder to
process as they contain debris like seeds and dirt that must be separated.
I was also familiar with acetate and rayon fibers from cellulose, often
cotton waste, but these were phased out by industry largely due to
difficult, messy processes requiring a lot of costly pollution control.

Hemp probably has a niche in the market but I doubt it would ever be a
growing one.

It's more than "probably". It does have a niche market but it is growing
and not only in clothes production.

When it comes to clothing fibre, hemp, like wool and linen, is being
increasingly sought after by those who have an interest in quality. These
quality issues relate to factors like wearability and drape which isn't
replicated in petrochemical based fibre.

It also has a growing market/interest as a carbon sink crop and for
production of other items such as those Lee described (including biodiesel)
and also for paper and soap production and is still used for canvas
production.

You and enigma rock. Thanks for the enlightening info.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1016232.html

Jangchub wrote:
everywhere.

One of my favorite fabrics is rayon. I am not sure how they make it,
but I know it is not synthetic so maybe that's why I like it.
Ordinarily I don't like anything synthetic because I can't stand the
way it feels on my skin.

Victoria

Rayon is essentially synthetic but it is made from regenerated
cellulose. I believe they started using cotton linter's, left over
from the cotton gin but there are even cheaper sources of cellulose.
It is an extremely messy, un-environmentally friendly process where the
cellulose is treated with carbon disulfide and caustic and wet spun into
sulfuric acid. Cellophane film was made the same way.

Point I have been trying to make in this thread is that while one might
expect natural fibers and polymers to be more environmentally friendly
than synthetics, the processing necessary to manufacture them into
useful items is often environmentally unfriendly.

Frank

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
My Great
Uncle Ralph grew it so he made twice the money and apparently the hemp
didn't take that many nurtients from corn production.

Hemp would not take nutrients unless it was the bicarbohydrate transfer of
plants. The hemp would take some elements from the soil. Magnesium for the
center of every chlorophyll molecule and so on. 14 elements that are
essential come from the soil.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.

"enigma" wrote in message
i need to research how China manufactures bamboo fiber. it's
touted as 'earth friendly', and renewable...

It's renewable but it ain't earth friendly. Hugely resource intensive which
is fairly obvious if you think of how tough it is and thus how tough it
would be to get it into a soft cellulose form.

"Frank" frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote in message

Point I have been trying to make in this thread is that while one might
expect natural fibers and polymers to be more environmentally friendly
than synthetics, the processing necessary to manufacture them into useful
items is often environmentally unfriendly.

And the same point can be made about just about every single thing we use
now in our society. We are all huge consumers of energy and most of us
consume far more than we either need or is good for us.

On Sep 8, 2:27 pm, Jangchub wrote:
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:33:05 -0400, Frank



frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote:
Jangchub wrote:
everywhere.

One of my favorite fabrics is rayon. I am not sure how they make it,
but I know it is not synthetic so maybe that's why I like it.
Ordinarily I don't like anything synthetic because I can't stand the
way it feels on my skin.

Victoria

Rayon is essentially synthetic but it is made from regenerated
cellulose. I believe they started using cotton linter's, left over
from the cotton gin but there are even cheaper sources of cellulose.
It is an extremely messy, un-environmentally friendly process where the
cellulose is treated with carbon disulfide and caustic and wet spun into
sulfuric acid. Cellophane film was made the same way.

Point I have been trying to make in this thread is that while one might
expect natural fibers and polymers to be more environmentally friendly
than synthetics, the processing necessary to manufacture them into
useful items is often environmentally unfriendly.

Frank

Yes, I'm learning that more and more every day. For example, it takes
more fuel to make a gallon of bio diesel than it makes. Did that come
out right?

Yes, indeed it made perfect sense.

But the attractiveness of biodiesel isn't apparent when you make it
simply to run your cars. We saw that with the whole ethanol
boondoggle, when we paid the agricorps to grow corn, then we bought
corn from them at inflated prices to make the ethanol, that diluted
the gas, which was also overpriced.

No, biodiesel works when you use it for something else, like
lubricants or cooking oils, then collect it and use it in your car.
Then it's energy efficient, as well as atmosphere-friendly (it still
releases CO2, but it has produces lot less soot and other particulate
matter than petrodiesel).

Chris


The real way we are going to make changes is to demystify solar, wind
and renewable energy. I actually did know your point, but was
expressing how I prefer natural fibers against my skin. Polyester has
made some great improvements and many times very hard to tell it's not
silk in many cases.

We need to change the way we waste.

Victoria

"If the present and the future
were contingent on the past,
then the present and the future
would have existed in the past."

-Lama Tsongkhapa

http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/

On Sep 9, 5:33*am, Chris wrote:
On Sep 8, 2:27 pm, Jangchub wrote:





On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:33:05 -0400, Frank

frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote:
Jangchub wrote:
everywhere.

One of my favorite fabrics is rayon. *I am not sure how they make it,
but I know it is not synthetic so maybe that's why I like it.
Ordinarily I don't like anything synthetic because I can't stand the
way it feels on my skin.

Victoria

Rayon is essentially synthetic but it is made from regenerated
cellulose. * I believe they started using cotton linter's, left over
from the cotton gin but there are even cheaper sources of cellulose.
It is an extremely messy, un-environmentally friendly process where the
cellulose is treated with carbon disulfide and caustic and wet spun into
sulfuric acid. *Cellophane film was made the same way.

Point I have been trying to make in this thread is that while one might
expect natural fibers and polymers to be more environmentally friendly
than synthetics, the processing necessary to manufacture them into
useful items is often environmentally unfriendly.

Frank

Yes, I'm learning that more and more every day. *For example, it takes
more fuel to make a gallon of bio diesel than it makes. *Did that come
out right?

Yes, indeed it made perfect sense.

But the attractiveness of biodiesel isn't apparent when you make it
simply to run your cars. We saw that with the whole ethanol
boondoggle, when we paid the agricorps to grow corn, then we bought
corn from them at inflated prices to make the ethanol, that diluted
the gas, which was also overpriced.

No, biodiesel works when you use it for something else, like
lubricants or cooking oils, then collect it and use it in your car.
Then it's energy efficient, as well as *atmosphere-friendly (it still
releases CO2, but it has produces lot less soot and other particulate
matter than petrodiesel).

Chris





The real way we are going to make changes is to demystify solar, wind
and renewable energy. * *I actually did know your point, but was
expressing how I prefer natural fibers against my skin. *Polyester has
made some great improvements and many times very hard to tell it's not
silk in many cases.

We need to change the way we waste.

Victoria

"If the present and the future
were contingent on the past,
then the present and the future
would have existed in the past."

-Lama Tsongkhapa

http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

To me, legislating technology is a huge mistake. They will be talking
about the "unintended consequences" of the ethanol legislative mess
for years.

On Sep 9, 7:45*am, Frank wrote:
On Sep 9, 5:33*am, Chris wrote:



On Sep 8, 2:27 pm, Jangchub wrote:

On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:33:05 -0400, Frank

frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote:
Jangchub wrote:
everywhere.

One of my favorite fabrics is rayon. *I am not sure how they make it,
but I know it is not synthetic so maybe that's why I like it.
Ordinarily I don't like anything synthetic because I can't stand the
way it feels on my skin.

Victoria

Rayon is essentially synthetic but it is made from regenerated
cellulose. * I believe they started using cotton linter's, left over
from the cotton gin but there are even cheaper sources of cellulose.
It is an extremely messy, un-environmentally friendly process where the
cellulose is treated with carbon disulfide and caustic and wet spun into
sulfuric acid. *Cellophane film was made the same way.

Point I have been trying to make in this thread is that while one might
expect natural fibers and polymers to be more environmentally friendly
than synthetics, the processing necessary to manufacture them into
useful items is often environmentally unfriendly.

Frank

Yes, I'm learning that more and more every day. *For example, it takes
more fuel to make a gallon of bio diesel than it makes. *Did that come
out right?

Yes, indeed it made perfect sense.

But the attractiveness of biodiesel isn't apparent when you make it
simply to run your cars. We saw that with the whole ethanol
boondoggle, when we paid the agricorps to grow corn, then we bought
corn from them at inflated prices to make the ethanol, that diluted
the gas, which was also overpriced.

No, biodiesel works when you use it for something else, like
lubricants or cooking oils, then collect it and use it in your car.
Then it's energy efficient, as well as *atmosphere-friendly (it still
releases CO2, but it has produces lot less soot and other particulate
matter than petrodiesel).

Chris

The real way we are going to make changes is to demystify solar, wind
and renewable energy. * *I actually did know your point, but was
expressing how I prefer natural fibers against my skin. *Polyester has
made some great improvements and many times very hard to tell it's not
silk in many cases.

We need to change the way we waste.

Victoria

"If the present and the future
were contingent on the past,
then the present and the future
would have existed in the past."

-Lama Tsongkhapa

http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

To me, legislating technology is a huge mistake. *They will be talking
about the "unintended consequences" of the ethanol legislative mess
for years.

Yeah, but what's good for Archer-Daniels and ConAgra is good for
America, right?

Yeah, right.

Chris

We should outlaw all technology because it all pollutes and amercement the environment. We should reside in caves. We can't body houses of copse because we annihilate copse to accomplish the wood. We can't reside in tents area are we going to get the actual to accomplish the tent? Heaven forbid we should annihilate an animal and use it's skin. Synthetic fabrics are out of the question. We can't grow cotton, that displaces added accustomed frondescence that was there first.