http://www.democraticunderground.com...z=view_all&add
ress=132x4474484

I've always had the notion that if I took care of my two acres it
would some how resonate and effect the local then the larger state.
This based on the Chinese Ideal that the individual must be in health
before the family can be which grows to the community then state.
Hence my own perhaps our interest in gardening local.

Guess I have been screwing up royally by this ideal obviously in the
last few years. Hope tomorrow inspires me to do more on my end.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

In article ,
Bill wrote:

http://www.democraticunderground.com...z=view_all&add
ress=132x4474484

I've always had the notion that if I took care of my two acres it
would some how resonate and effect the local then the larger state.
This based on the Chinese Ideal that the individual must be in health
before the family can be which grows to the community then state.
Hence my own perhaps our interest in gardening local.

Guess I have been screwing up royally by this ideal obviously in the
last few years. Hope tomorrow inspires me to do more on my end.

Bill

Even Confucianism has hit a bad patch. I'm more inclined to the
"Accept" and "Recognize" school of philosophy.
Repairing the damages of the last eight years (some would say forty
years) is such an awesome task. We all could do with some inspiration.
I hope someone is streaming it as I'll be at work without a TV.

Here's to new beginnings, in the garden, and otherwise ;O)
--

Billy
Republican and Democratic "Leadership" Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Zunx_goz4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net

In article ,
Bill wrote:

http://www.democraticunderground.com...z=view_all&add
ress=132x4474484

I've always had the notion that if I took care of my two acres it
would some how resonate and effect the local then the larger state.
This based on the Chinese Ideal that the individual must be in health
before the family can be which grows to the community then state.
Hence my own perhaps our interest in gardening local.

Guess I have been screwing up royally by this ideal obviously in the
last few years. Hope tomorrow inspires me to do more on my end.

Bill

Sorry for the bad URL. It worked fine on my end.

Trying again

http://www.democraticunderground.com...z=view_all&add
ress=132x4474484

Gist of which is

Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 02:30 AM by dmesg
Obama will limit farm subsidy payouts to $250,000 per farm, and tighten
loopholes that allow Monsanto and ADM to subdivide their huge
sharecropper empires into hundreds of paper companies to rake in
taxpayer money. He wants farm relief to help keep family farms
sustainable, not to keep Monsanto profits rising.

He will strengthen pollution standards on large megafarms so that they
don't keep dumping their toxic sludge into our waterways.

He will push through a packer ban so that meat packers no longer own the
livestock and treat herders like sharecroppers.

He will immediately and strongly implement country of origin labeling on
foodstuffs.

He has an investment program to strengthen regional food systems and
organic farms, and a crop insurance modification to end discrimination
against organic farmers.

He will implement a recruitment and education program to help more young
people learn to farm, as well as tax incentives to help new farmers
start their first farm.

Obama: he's got it right about agriculture.

(And yes, I am going to keep posting stuff like this until the "all
style no substance" BS disappears from GD-P)

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

In article ,
Bill wrote:

http://www.democraticunderground.com...z=view_all&add
ress=132x4474484

Gist of which is

Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 02:30 AM by dmesg
Obama will limit farm subsidy payouts to $250,000 per farm, and tighten
loopholes that allow Monsanto and ADM to subdivide their huge
sharecropper empires into hundreds of paper companies to rake in
taxpayer money. He wants farm relief to help keep family farms
sustainable, not to keep Monsanto profits rising.

He will strengthen pollution standards on large megafarms so that they
don't keep dumping their toxic sludge into our waterways.

He will push through a packer ban so that meat packers no longer own the
livestock and treat herders like sharecroppers.

He will immediately and strongly implement country of origin labeling on
foodstuffs.

He has an investment program to strengthen regional food systems and
organic farms, and a crop insurance modification to end discrimination
against organic farmers.

He will implement a recruitment and education program to help more young
people learn to farm, as well as tax incentives to help new farmers
start their first farm.

Obama: he's got it right about agriculture.

(And yes, I am going to keep posting stuff like this until the "all
style no substance" BS disappears from GD-P)

Bill,
it all sounds like good stuff but where are the citations. It easily
could have gotten by me but I've never heard him say any of these things.

Been reading "What to Eat" by Marion Nestle. For those who think about
adding fish to their garden, you may want to stop and reflect. The
oceans are sewers now. Predator fish like albacore, shark, salmon,
swordfish, and mackerel are concentrating methylmercury in themselves
and any one who eats them. Most of the methylmercury comes from coal
fired plants. The other problem is persistent polychlorinated biphenyls
(were in electrical transformers); polybrominated diphenyl ethers, and
hexabromocyclododecane (flame retardants); dioxin, and DDT. These
concentrate in our fats and are passed to our offspring through the
placenta, as is the methylmercury. They mimic endocrine and can cause
developmental disorders.
Funny (?) thing though, "farmed" fish are higher in these contaminates
(except for the methylmercury) than are wild fish.

Now I've got myself thinking about where the fish emulsion comes from
for our organic gardens. I'll check with the local "Master Gardeners".

If you must eat fish, pick non-predator fish or smaller, young fish to
reduce contamination.

Now get out there and have fun =:Oo
--

Billy
Republican and Democratic "Leadership" Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Zunx_goz4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net

In article
,
Billy wrote:

it all sounds like good stuff but where are the citations. It easily
could have gotten by me but I've never heard him say any of these things.


Here you go Billy

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/rural/#economic-opportunity

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Bill wrote in
:

Obama: he's got it right about agriculture.

really? then why did he appoint Monsanto toady and champion of
confined feedlots Vilsack to head Dept.of Ag?
lee

In article ,
enigma wrote:

Bill wrote in
:

Obama: he's got it right about agriculture.

really? then why did he appoint Monsanto toady and champion of
confined feedlots Vilsack to head Dept.of Ag?
lee

Don't know!

Bill

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16697.html

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

In article ,
Bill wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

it all sounds like good stuff but where are the citations. It easily
could have gotten by me but I've never heard him say any of these things.


Here you go Billy

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/rural/#economic-opportunity

Thanks for the citation Bill.
--

Billy
Republican and Democratic "Leadership" Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Zunx_goz4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net

In article ,
enigma wrote:

Bill wrote in
:

Obama: he's got it right about agriculture.

really? then why did he appoint Monsanto toady and champion of
confined feedlots Vilsack to head Dept.of Ag?
lee

Have been thinking about this. Perhaps a leash on someone that knows
the business is a subtle way to change. What do I know?

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

On Jan 20, 8:41*pm, Billy wrote:

If you must eat fish, pick non-predator fish ....

What is that? Serious question.

cheers

oz, back (to the joy of not quite all)

In article
,
MajorOz wrote:

On Jan 20, 8:41*pm, Billy wrote:

If you must eat fish, pick non-predator fish ....

What is that? Serious question.

cheers

oz, back (to the joy of not quite all)

Don't eat the top of the food chain. That is where all the pollution
gets concentrated.
I seemed to have baffled the local Master Gardeners with my query about
contaminates in fish emulsion. Wrote to a UC Davis professor of
aquaculture. It may be a conflict of interest for him but hopefully
he is a full tilt academic.
--

Billy
Republican and Democratic "Leadership" Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Zunx_goz4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net

Jangchub wrote in
:

Better yet, don't eat any animals. There is no need to anyway.

humans are omnivores. we don't need as much meat as western society
tends to eat, but we are evolved to utilize animal proteins.

The whole protein bullshit is so untrue. Cows are vegans. They
eat grass.

untrue. cows are also omnivores. they seek out ground nesting birds
& eat the eggs & unfledged baby birds. they also will eat mice. if
there's a dead snake in the bale of hay, they happily eat that too.


Hmmm. I wonder how they got all those muscles we
love to eat. The animal muscles of animals make us lose
calcium, are are mostly fat anyway. Not to mention hormones,
toxins, and everything else. Cows are prey, not predators.
They don't have teeth to bite into anything. How do you explain
that?

yes, cows are prey. that's why we eat them. i'd like cites about
meat causing loss of bone calcium please.

Fish? If people saw how fish are processed they'd puke for
days. Fish emulsion is easily replaced with a superior product
in liquid or dry seaweed.

i process fish with a fileting knife. why should that make me puke
for days? (since i'm allergic to fish, i don't eat them, but,
still). i can also butcher my own cows without "puking for days".
everything dies. it's the cycle of life.

An no, I don't eat meat of any kind including fish, am working
on removing all dairy and eggs and should be vegan by the end of
next month. I just have to get used to cooking without dairy
and eggs.

just as long as you don't support PETA...
lee

On Jan 22, 11:38*pm, Billy wrote:
In article
,

*MajorOz wrote:
On Jan 20, 8:41*pm, Billy wrote:

If you must eat fish, pick non-predator fish ....

What is that? *Serious question.

cheers

oz, back (to the joy of not quite all)

Don't eat the top of the food chain. That is where all the pollution
gets concentrated.

Actually, my question was more along the lines of: "Aren't ALL fish
predators?"

I seemed to have baffled the local Master Gardeners with my query about
contaminates in fish emulsion. Wrote to a UC Davis professor of
aquaculture. It may be a conflict of interest for him but hopefully
he is a full tilt academic.

Another experiment I intend to do this year is do my own fish
fertilizer.
I have a bass/catfish/bluegill pond that is disgustingly fertile
(runoff through 60 acres of oak forest and with 30,000 lbs of
wallboard scrap on the bottom bringing the pH to slightly alkaline)
and needs to be fished at a higher rate. I am thinking of harvesting
a zillion bluegills, running them through a "bass-O-matic" and mixing
it with soil, peat moss, etc and running a test bed on veggies.

Has anybody here'bouts tried anything similar?

cheers

oz, thinking of starting peas in peat pots even with ice on the pond

Jangchub wrote in
:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:06:49 +0000 (UTC), enigma
wrote:

humans are omnivores. we don't need as much meat as western
society tends to eat, but we are evolved to utilize animal
proteins.

Yeah, we also don't have fangs to rip into an animal to eat it.
We use utensils. This is not natural. We don't need any meat
at all, not ever.

i don't know about you, but i have fangs. i have sharp, pointy
eyeteeth perfectly suited to ripping meat.
i was vegetarian for many years because i lost the gut bacteria to
digest meat. i've since recovered however.

untrue. cows are also omnivores. they seek out ground nesting
birds & eat the eggs & unfledged baby birds. they also will eat
mice. if there's a dead snake in the bale of hay, they happily
eat that too.

No, cows are not omnivores. Have you ever seen a cow hunt down
an animal and eat it?

as i said, cows will hunt out and eat ground nesting birds. it's
not accidentally eating a poor little birdy. they look for the
birds.

Because they have the ability to digest
something does not make them omnivores. It makes them vegan
based on their ability to gnash and digest food through a
multi-stomach process. Baby cows are the only animals who drink
milk from a cow. Ever see an adult cow drinking milk? Because
we abuse animals and feed them to other of the same type of
animals, including feathermeal, whole feathers, glop, ground up
animals, corn glop doesn't make them omnivores. I've never seen
a free range cow go for the meal when they have grass. Grass
fed beef is the best beef if you must eat it. Still, even their
muscle tissue is 60% fat.

Victoria, i majored in livestock management. trust me, i know what
i'm talking about. i was quite surprised to find out about the bird
eating too.
i agree that cattle should not be fed grains or what you call
glop. doing so only enriches the pockets of the pharmacutical
industry. cattle should eat grass, & whatever ground nesting birds
they desire.

yes, cows are prey. that's why we eat them. i'd like cites about
meat causing loss of bone calcium please.
Is this enough for you? Or do you need more?

that says that not enough protein is the issue, not that you
shouldn't eat meat.
the other sources have an agenda.

Majority of people do not catch and process their own fish and
slaughter their own cattle for beef. Take a ride to the local
chicken, fish, egg, beef production and processing plants to see
how they are murdered, the deplorable conditions they are forced
to live in while they lay in their own manure and urine for
weeks at a tiime in freezing weather in small pens with
thousands of other cattle, some dead already, to be hung upside
down, throats slit.

oh. i see you do believe PETA.


just as long as you don't support PETA...

Why not? What does PETA scare you? A little too real?

scare me? they have such a loose grasp on reality i'm surprised
they don't just float away.
no, PETA is an evil organization that chooses to manipulate
people's emotions about animals in order for the board of directors
to maintain their 6 figues salaries. PETA doesn't give a rat's ass
about animal rights or welfare. they take perfectly healthy kittens
& puppies from no-kill shelters and euthanise them, then dump the
bodies in dumpsters. any animal taken to a PETA shelter is killed &
stuck in a giant freezer. they don't even TRY to find homes for
them. why? "because it costs too much". seriously, how anyone could
support these fruitcakes is beyond comprehension!
lee

In article
,
MajorOz wrote:

Don't eat the top of the food chain. That is where all the pollution
gets concentrated.

Actually, my question was more along the lines of: "Aren't ALL fish
predators?"

Perhaps but there are predators and then there are PREDATORS (think
shark). These top predators have no predators (except man). You may want
to consult with
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/c...factsheet.aspx
--

Billy
Republican and Democratic "Leadership" Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Zunx_goz4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net