"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"The moderator" wrote:

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:47:23 -0700 (PDT), Mycosimian
wrote:

There are people willing to do those jobs for those low wages because
it is a hell of a lot better than lying down on the cold, hard earth
and starving to death. I pretty sure that most of us here are lucky
enough to have other options. Anyone willing to work should be allowed
to go wherever there is work for them.

People might argue that we are losing jobs in this country by the
hundreds of thousands, but these are likely the same people who are
too lazy to pick their own vegetables, wash their own dishes, and
scrub their own toilets.

Companies like Dell Inc. which made many tax incentives in Texas and
the minute those incentives expired, instead of giving back they
shipped 8,000 jobs out to India, El Salvador, Dominican Republic, etc.
My husand who did get his five weeks vacation, seniority and the rest
were all cast aside like cattle to the slaughter house.

Deregulation is what is ruining this country and I hope under the new
administration we will cancel a lot of what the last administration
did to the country. After eight years this country is 13 trillion
dollars in debt, mostly to China. We better pray they don't make the
margin call, oh great gamblers of the last presidency.
Victoria

So far Obama is on track to quadruple the National Debt in four years.
If
you bought into the Obama hype as a fiscal conservative then you were
duped.
If you ignore the amount of money he has budgeted in his first 100 days
then
you are a fool.

It is not the deregulation that provides incentive for employers to go
off
shore. It is the tremendous regulation in this country. Foreign
competitors don't have to abide by very many regulations.

This must be opposite day.

You are so profoundly, egregiously wrong, but that wouldn't interfere
with you adding fecundity to a garden as compost.

From Reagan's "It's morning again in America.", to Gingrich's Contract
on America, to "suuuuue wiiii pig, pig, pig" from "The Worst President
Ever" standing next to the American, fiscal trough, deregulation is what
America's politicians have been paid to do and they have done it to our
detriment.

To bring up that particular mantra now, after being responsible for a
world wide financial collapse is like suggesting we put out a fire with
gasoline.

I don't like the President's approach on Shrub's vanity wars or his
response to our economic problems, otherwise he seems to be doing a fine
job.

But blaming the President, barely 100 days in office, for the last eight
years of chicanery and theft is contemptuous.

And to continue the subject line of a white-power racist, puts you
beneath contempt, but that is probably where your sympathies lie.


In other news:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...anding-effort/

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...h-rebranding-e
ffort/

Now, if they could just find where they buried the body of "financial
responsibility", they may be on to something.

Prepping my garden by covering my rye grass with newspaper. Boy, has
that become difficult. As news content disappears in the local fish wrap
they have turned to color. It is getting difficult to get a dozen
newsprint pages a day, and that's with tearing double pages in half.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"The moderator" wrote:

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:47:23 -0700 (PDT), Mycosimian
wrote:

There are people willing to do those jobs for those low wages because
it is a hell of a lot better than lying down on the cold, hard earth
and starving to death. I pretty sure that most of us here are lucky
enough to have other options. Anyone willing to work should be allowed
to go wherever there is work for them.

People might argue that we are losing jobs in this country by the
hundreds of thousands, but these are likely the same people who are
too lazy to pick their own vegetables, wash their own dishes, and
scrub their own toilets.

Companies like Dell Inc. which made many tax incentives in Texas and
the minute those incentives expired, instead of giving back they
shipped 8,000 jobs out to India, El Salvador, Dominican Republic, etc.
My husand who did get his five weeks vacation, seniority and the rest
were all cast aside like cattle to the slaughter house.

Deregulation is what is ruining this country and I hope under the new
administration we will cancel a lot of what the last administration
did to the country. After eight years this country is 13 trillion
dollars in debt, mostly to China. We better pray they don't make the
margin call, oh great gamblers of the last presidency.
Victoria

So far Obama is on track to quadruple the National Debt in four years.
If
you bought into the Obama hype as a fiscal conservative then you were
duped.
If you ignore the amount of money he has budgeted in his first 100 days
then
you are a fool.

It is not the deregulation that provides incentive for employers to go
off
shore. It is the tremendous regulation in this country. Foreign
competitors don't have to abide by very many regulations.

This must be opposite day.

You are so profoundly, egregiously wrong, but that wouldn't interfere
with you adding fecundity to a garden as compost.

From Reagan's "It's morning again in America.", to Gingrich's Contract
on America, to "suuuuue wiiii pig, pig, pig" from "The Worst President
Ever" standing next to the American, fiscal trough, deregulation is what
America's politicians have been paid to do and they have done it to our
detriment.

To bring up that particular mantra now, after being responsible for a
world wide financial collapse is like suggesting we put out a fire with
gasoline.

I don't like the President's approach on Shrub's vanity wars or his
response to our economic problems, otherwise he seems to be doing a fine
job.

But blaming the President, barely 100 days in office, for the last eight
years of chicanery and theft is contemptuous.

And to continue the subject line of a white-power racist, puts you
beneath contempt, but that is probably where your sympathies lie.

BDS is curable, but in your case it might be too late. I haven't heard a
crazy screed like that since the election.

If you think businesses are going offshore, because they want more
regulation then you are uninformed. I didn't blame anything on Obama other
than his own bloated budget and spending craze.

"The moderator" wrote in message
...

I didn't blame anything on Obama other than his own bloated budget and
spending craze.


Do you think we should've let companies like AIG sink?

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"The moderator" wrote:

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:47:23 -0700 (PDT), Mycosimian
wrote:

There are people willing to do those jobs for those low wages because
it is a hell of a lot better than lying down on the cold, hard earth
and starving to death. I pretty sure that most of us here are lucky
enough to have other options. Anyone willing to work should be allowed
to go wherever there is work for them.

People might argue that we are losing jobs in this country by the
hundreds of thousands, but these are likely the same people who are
too lazy to pick their own vegetables, wash their own dishes, and
scrub their own toilets.

Companies like Dell Inc. which made many tax incentives in Texas and
the minute those incentives expired, instead of giving back they
shipped 8,000 jobs out to India, El Salvador, Dominican Republic, etc.
My husand who did get his five weeks vacation, seniority and the rest
were all cast aside like cattle to the slaughter house.

Deregulation is what is ruining this country and I hope under the new
administration we will cancel a lot of what the last administration
did to the country. After eight years this country is 13 trillion
dollars in debt, mostly to China. We better pray they don't make the
margin call, oh great gamblers of the last presidency.
Victoria

So far Obama is on track to quadruple the National Debt in four years.
If
you bought into the Obama hype as a fiscal conservative then you were
duped.
If you ignore the amount of money he has budgeted in his first 100 days
then
you are a fool.

It is not the deregulation that provides incentive for employers to go
off
shore. It is the tremendous regulation in this country. Foreign
competitors don't have to abide by very many regulations.

This must be opposite day.

You are so profoundly, egregiously wrong, but that wouldn't interfere
with you adding fecundity to a garden as compost.

From Reagan's "It's morning again in America.", to Gingrich's Contract
on America, to "suuuuue wiiii pig, pig, pig" from "The Worst President
Ever" standing next to the American, fiscal trough, deregulation is what
America's politicians have been paid to do and they have done it to our
detriment.

To bring up that particular mantra now, after being responsible for a
world wide financial collapse is like suggesting we put out a fire with
gasoline.

I don't like the President's approach on Shrub's vanity wars or his
response to our economic problems, otherwise he seems to be doing a fine
job.

But blaming the President, barely 100 days in office, for the last eight
years of chicanery and theft is contemptuous.

And to continue the subject line of a white-power racist, puts you
beneath contempt, but that is probably where your sympathies lie.


In other news:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...h-rebranding-e
ffort/

Well this tread got me looking about for various definitions of just
what Brand means. Is it just like with cattle or is more like an image
with no substance. My definition of style reflects that there is no
substance.

Anyhow in the process I found Ivan Illich again for which I am grateful.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...%3Dstripbooks&
field-keywords=ivan+illich+in+conversation&sprefix=Ivan+ illich


A review from above URL

22 of 22 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Common Sense, April 10, 2005
By*
Panopticonman "panopticonman" (Brooklyn, NY USA) - See all my reviews
**
The New York Times has been of many minds about Ivan Illich, beginning
with its review of "Deschooling Society" in 1971. According to The
Times' December 4, 2002 obituary of Illich, the Times reviewer found the
book to be "'a mind-bending litany of abstraction' and a distraction
from schools' all too real problems." In that same year however, Anatole
Broyard found Illich's critiques "illuminating." But this was apparently
a burst of youthful enthusiasm, for twenty years later in 1989, Broyard
repented his earlier endorsement of Illich: in an article about
winnowing down his library he said he would "especially" discard Mr.
Illich's works.

It's not surprising Illich's project flummoxed the NYTimes. As
progressive advocates of the modern project, and now the last outpost of
bourgeoisie brownstone liberalism, the Times' promulgates a kind of
idealist pragmatic middle ground where technocrats can dispassionately
design and administer systems that will promote the Good and the
Beautiful. Illich, on the other hand, ultimately rejected the modern
project, whatever its political orientation, because he viewed it as
inherently corrupt. In his earlier writings in the early 70s, such as
TOOLS FOR CONVIVIALITY, he believed that it might be possible to stop,
rethink and humanize mankind's relationship with man and the earth. But
by the end of his life he saw that the modernist project could not be
arrested in its destructive disenchantment of the earth and humankind.

Bill who read TOOLS FOR CONVIVIALITY and believe the Chinese Ideal of
a strong family paramount. Helpful if a few hands like to garden ).

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Not all who wander are lost.
- J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973)

In article ,
Bill wrote:

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"The moderator" wrote:

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:47:23 -0700 (PDT), Mycosimian
wrote:

There are people willing to do those jobs for those low wages because
it is a hell of a lot better than lying down on the cold, hard earth
and starving to death. I pretty sure that most of us here are lucky
enough to have other options. Anyone willing to work should be allowed
to go wherever there is work for them.

People might argue that we are losing jobs in this country by the
hundreds of thousands, but these are likely the same people who are
too lazy to pick their own vegetables, wash their own dishes, and
scrub their own toilets.

Companies like Dell Inc. which made many tax incentives in Texas and
the minute those incentives expired, instead of giving back they
shipped 8,000 jobs out to India, El Salvador, Dominican Republic, etc.
My husand who did get his five weeks vacation, seniority and the rest
were all cast aside like cattle to the slaughter house.

Deregulation is what is ruining this country and I hope under the new
administration we will cancel a lot of what the last administration
did to the country. After eight years this country is 13 trillion
dollars in debt, mostly to China. We better pray they don't make the
margin call, oh great gamblers of the last presidency.
Victoria

So far Obama is on track to quadruple the National Debt in four years.
If
you bought into the Obama hype as a fiscal conservative then you were
duped.
If you ignore the amount of money he has budgeted in his first 100 days
then
you are a fool.

It is not the deregulation that provides incentive for employers to go
off
shore. It is the tremendous regulation in this country. Foreign
competitors don't have to abide by very many regulations.

This must be opposite day.

You are so profoundly, egregiously wrong, but that wouldn't interfere
with you adding fecundity to a garden as compost.

From Reagan's "It's morning again in America.", to Gingrich's Contract
on America, to "suuuuue wiiii pig, pig, pig" from "The Worst President
Ever" standing next to the American, fiscal trough, deregulation is what
America's politicians have been paid to do and they have done it to our
detriment.

To bring up that particular mantra now, after being responsible for a
world wide financial collapse is like suggesting we put out a fire with
gasoline.

I don't like the President's approach on Shrub's vanity wars or his
response to our economic problems, otherwise he seems to be doing a fine
job.

But blaming the President, barely 100 days in office, for the last eight
years of chicanery and theft is contemptuous.

And to continue the subject line of a white-power racist, puts you
beneath contempt, but that is probably where your sympathies lie.


In other news:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...nch-rebranding
-e
ffort/

Well this tread got me looking about for various definitions of just
what Brand means. Is it just like with cattle or is more like an image
with no substance. My definition of style reflects that there is no
substance.

Anyhow in the process I found Ivan Illich again for which I am grateful.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...%3Dstripbooks&
field-keywords=ivan+illich+in+conversation&sprefix=Ivan+ illich


A review from above URL

22 of 22 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Common Sense, April 10, 2005
By*
Panopticonman "panopticonman" (Brooklyn, NY USA) - See all my reviews
**
The New York Times has been of many minds about Ivan Illich, beginning
with its review of "Deschooling Society" in 1971. According to The
Times' December 4, 2002 obituary of Illich, the Times reviewer found the
book to be "'a mind-bending litany of abstraction' and a distraction
from schools' all too real problems." In that same year however, Anatole
Broyard found Illich's critiques "illuminating." But this was apparently
a burst of youthful enthusiasm, for twenty years later in 1989, Broyard
repented his earlier endorsement of Illich: in an article about
winnowing down his library he said he would "especially" discard Mr.
Illich's works.

It's not surprising Illich's project flummoxed the NYTimes. As
progressive advocates of the modern project, and now the last outpost of
bourgeoisie brownstone liberalism, the Times' promulgates a kind of
idealist pragmatic middle ground where technocrats can dispassionately
design and administer systems that will promote the Good and the
Beautiful. Illich, on the other hand, ultimately rejected the modern
project, whatever its political orientation, because he viewed it as
inherently corrupt. In his earlier writings in the early 70s, such as
TOOLS FOR CONVIVIALITY, he believed that it might be possible to stop,
rethink and humanize mankind's relationship with man and the earth. But
by the end of his life he saw that the modernist project could not be
arrested in its destructive disenchantment of the earth and humankind.

Bill who read TOOLS FOR CONVIVIALITY and believe the Chinese Ideal of
a strong family paramount. Helpful if a few hands like to garden ).

Anything like Walden Two by B. F. Skinner

http://www.amazon.com/Walden-Two-B-F...ref=sr_1_1?ie=
UTF8&s=books&qid=1241122754&sr=1-1

t in the United States, it pictures a society in which human problems
are solved by a scientific technology of human conduct.

FROM THE PREFACE: It is now widely recognised that great changes must be
made in the American way of life. Not only can we not face the rest of
the world while consuming and polluting as we do, we cannot for long
face ourselves while acknowledging the violence and chaos in which we
live. The choice is clear: either we do nothing and allow a miserable
and probably catastrophic future to overtake us, or we use our knowledge
about human behaviour to create a social environment in which we shall
live productive and creative lives and do so without jeopardising the
chances that those who follow us will be able to do the same. Something
like a Walden Two would not be a bad start.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"The moderator" wrote in message
...

I didn't blame anything on Obama other than his own bloated budget and
spending craze.


Do you think we should've let companies like AIG sink?

AIG is sunk. We have simply spent money to delay the inevitable. Chrysler
on line one...

Forget the bailout, Obama's 2010 budget is about 30% higher than President
Bushes 2009 budget and Obama already added Billions to the 2009 budget.

If President Bush spent too much Obama is spending what? Way too much?.

"The moderator" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"The moderator" wrote in message
...

I didn't blame anything on Obama other than his own bloated budget and
spending craze.


Do you think we should've let companies like AIG sink?

AIG is sunk. We have simply spent money to delay the inevitable.
Chrysler on line one...

Forget the bailout, Obama's 2010 budget is about 30% higher than President
Bushes 2009 budget and Obama already added Billions to the 2009 budget.

If President Bush spent too much Obama is spending what? Way too much?.



Perhaps we should've let AIG sink. But here's an interesting question:

In what way to some insurance companies contribute to liquidity in the
credit market?

In article ,
"The moderator" wrote:

BDS is curable, but in your case it might be too late. I haven't heard a
crazy screed like that since the election.

If you think businesses are going offshore, because they want more
regulation then you are uninformed. I didn't blame anything on Obama other
than his own bloated budget and spending craze.

BDS bwahahahahaha, a Bushite, that is to say, "part of the problem".No
reason to go into the "squandered" money, militarization of our society,
loss of civil rights, lost American prestige around the world by
torturing. We already know that.
See Rand Corp evaluation of of the "War on Terror":
http://www.rand.org/news/press/2008/07/29/

A USA Today/Gallup pole says that 2/3 of Americans want Bush
investigated.

February 13, 2009
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/2/13/headlines#3

I am not alone. Bwahahahahahaha
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"The moderator" wrote in message
...

I didn't blame anything on Obama other than his own bloated budget and
spending craze.


Do you think we should've let companies like AIG sink?

Would have been nice, if they had set aside money for the insurance
policies they wrote, instead of the 30 to 1 leverage position that they
took. They should have been nationalized, claims paid and the top
executives should have been fired and investigated.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article
,
Billy wrote:

BDS is curable

You mean, there is a cure for sanity? Not that you would even be on a
nodding acquaintance with what it is.

An inveterate, unapologetic Bushite, bwahahahaha (I really love to do
that;O), bwahahahaha.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"The moderator" wrote:

BDS is curable, but in your case it might be too late. I haven't heard a
crazy screed like that since the election.

If you think businesses are going offshore, because they want more
regulation then you are uninformed. I didn't blame anything on Obama
other
than his own bloated budget and spending craze.

BDS bwahahahahaha, a Bushite, that is to say, "part of the problem".No
reason to go into the "squandered" money, militarization of our society,
loss of civil rights, lost American prestige around the world by
torturing. We already know that.
See Rand Corp evaluation of of the "War on Terror":
http://www.rand.org/news/press/2008/07/29/

A USA Today/Gallup pole says that 2/3 of Americans want Bush
investigated.

February 13, 2009
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/2/13/headlines#3

I am not alone. Bwahahahahahaha

No, you are not alone. There are a lot of sheep :-)

Bwahahahahaha

In article ,
"The Moderator" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"The moderator" wrote:

BDS is curable, but in your case it might be too late. I haven't heard a
crazy screed like that since the election.

If you think businesses are going offshore, because they want more
regulation then you are uninformed. I didn't blame anything on Obama
other
than his own bloated budget and spending craze.

BDS bwahahahahaha, a Bushite, that is to say, "part of the problem".No
reason to go into the "squandered" money, militarization of our society,
loss of civil rights, lost American prestige around the world by
torturing. We already know that.
See Rand Corp evaluation of of the "War on Terror":
http://www.rand.org/news/press/2008/07/29/

A USA Today/Gallup pole says that 2/3 of Americans want Bush
investigated.

February 13, 2009
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/2/13/headlines#3

I am not alone. Bwahahahahahaha

No, you are not alone. There are a lot of sheep :-)

Bwahahahahaha

Indeed, it appears a third of us are sheep. Do try to keep the baaaaing
down, please. Now where did I put the mint jelly?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...

I'd like to kick GWB in the nuts just as much as you would, but he
and his sitters are not responsible for the unwillingness of
Americans to do certain types of work. I challenge anyone to find
100 typical teenagers who'd agree to bust their asses harvesting
broccoli for 8 hours at a time, even for the legal minimum wage. Or,
clean hotel bathrooms, wash pots & pans in a hot, crowded restaurant
kitchen, etc.

I washed pots at the Frog and the Peach restaruant on Long Island and
ran up and down to the walk in box for the chef's requests for
sometimes 10 hours a day, more on the weekend. We barely grow hand
picked vegetables in America any more, we have factory farms for the
most part with automated pickers. Crops we get which are harvested by
migrant workers are in Mexico, Chile, etc. American's are lazy, fat,
and sloven.

Statistically and logically invalid response: "I did that kind of
work and it didn't kill me." That's one. I want 100.

I just said I did it. Everyone who worked in that kitchen was
American.


You replied to two different people in your previous post. The "invalid
response" lesson came from ME. The fact that YOU did the kind of work you
described is meaningless. I guarantee that if you asked American 100
teenagers if they'd give up their nice, comfy jobs at the mall or
Blockbuster and go pick vegetables or clean public bathrooms all day long,
they'd laugh at you.

On May 1, 7:14*am, Jangchub wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:45:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"

....


News flash, the illegals in Texas build almost 90 percent of homes,
roofs, pools, roads, fences, masonry, iron work, plasterers, painters,
window installation, warranty work, delivery, pick-up, and just about
any job involving a wood frame including the frame is done by illegal
and legal immigrants. *And they do it for slave wages in the heat, day
after day and never complain. *NEVER complain. *


....


I will search for the statistics, but I remember reading that the
number of illegal workers in the state of Texas far outnumbers the
number of unemployed legal workers. Many of those legal workers are
likely resistant to the idea of working their asses off for minimum
wage. Get rid of all the illegals and the veggies will not be picked,
the local economy will collapse.