"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Keep in mind: Fiscal liberals are liars who teach their children how
to lie.

You know you are dealing with a religious issue when either side cannot
accept that their opposition acts in good faith and must be liars. But
this is how the climate change debate is conducted in the USA. Pile on as
much emotion and as few facts as possible, a tale told by an idiot, full
of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

It's something that really does irritate me because it makes it so much
harder to correct or castigate people when they apply the usual stereotype
to Americans.

Happy Solstice.

And to you and yours David.

"David Hare-Scott" wrote :

Keep in mind: Fiscal liberals are liars who teach their children how
to lie.

You know you are dealing with a religious issue when either side cannot
accept that their opposition acts in good faith and must be liars. But
this is how the climate change debate is conducted in the USA. Pile on
as much emotion and as few facts as possible, a tale told by an idiot,
full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Happy Solstice.

D



Has nothing to do with the fact that government FUNDED weather organizations
were lying with their data, we may actually be entering a period of global
cooling, and the climate has been changing for billions of years!

In fact there were periods in Europe when thet couldn't even grow crops and
were all starving, BEFORE modern carbon emissions!

Rick wrote :

On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 15:22:03 +1100, "Farm1"
wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Keep in mind: Fiscal liberals are liars who teach their children how
to lie.

You know you are dealing with a religious issue when either side
cannot accept that their opposition acts in good faith and must be
liars. But this is how the climate change debate is conducted in the
USA. Pile on as much emotion and as few facts as possible, a tale
told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

It's something that really does irritate me because it makes it so much
harder to correct or castigate people when they apply the usual
stereotype to Americans.

Happy Solstice.

And to you and yours David.


There are a lot of climate change deniers in myriad countries- even
some Bengali's who are already wading up to their navels.

Oh? Are those the people who live on islands that are 3 feet above sea
level and flood whenever the weather gets stormy? The ones who are
cynically being used as poster children by the MMGW - "Man Made Global
Warming" whackos?


There is no climate debate in America. It must be very difficult for
those on the outside looking in to come to grips with Americas
religiosity and how it impacts our politics. To a coal miner in West
Virginia, with no other reasonable source of income, God put that coal
in the ground for him to dig up.


Yes, and if the liberals REALLY gave a crap about anything BUT Marxist
redistribution of wealth:

"There is enough nuclear fuel to last far longer than man will inhabit the
earth." - Physics Professor Emeritus Dr. Howard Hayden, author of The
Energy Advocate

ALL SAFE AND CLEAN, WITH MODERN PRE-PACKAGED PLANT DESIGNS.

But of course the liberals hate everything human and no energy solution is
acceptable. We all must revert to naked savages picking berries in the
fields, for these whackos to be happy!

Jane Galt wrote:
Rick wrote :

On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 15:22:03 +1100, "Farm1"
wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Keep in mind: Fiscal liberals are liars who teach their children
how to lie.

You know you are dealing with a religious issue when either side
cannot accept that their opposition acts in good faith and must be
liars. But this is how the climate change debate is conducted in
the USA. Pile on as much emotion and as few facts as possible, a
tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

It's something that really does irritate me because it makes it so
much harder to correct or castigate people when they apply the usual
stereotype to Americans.

Happy Solstice.

And to you and yours David.


There are a lot of climate change deniers in myriad countries- even
some Bengali's who are already wading up to their navels.

Oh? Are those the people who live on islands that are 3 feet above sea
level and flood whenever the weather gets stormy? The ones who are
cynically being used as poster children by the MMGW - "Man Made Global
Warming" whackos?


There is no climate debate in America. It must be very difficult for
those on the outside looking in to come to grips with Americas
religiosity and how it impacts our politics. To a coal miner in West
Virginia, with no other reasonable source of income, God put that
coal in the ground for him to dig up.


Yes, and if the liberals REALLY gave a crap about anything BUT Marxist
redistribution of wealth:


This is further confirmation of my original post, there is no need to keep
producing more examples as I understood you the first time. You pretend
that you are somehow saying something about climate change, all you are
doing is hurling political slogans at your imagined opposition. A waste of
typing.

D

Jane Galt wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote :

Keep in mind: Fiscal liberals are liars who teach their children how
to lie.

You know you are dealing with a religious issue when either side
cannot accept that their opposition acts in good faith and must be
liars. But this is how the climate change debate is conducted in
the USA. Pile on as much emotion and as few facts as possible, a
tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Happy Solstice.

D



Has nothing to do with the fact that government FUNDED weather
organizations were lying with their data, we may actually be entering
a period of global cooling, and the climate has been changing for
billions of years!

In fact there were periods in Europe when thet couldn't even grow
crops and were all starving, BEFORE modern carbon emissions!

I am not attempting to censor the debate but to use a small group of points
to illustrate the situation. I want to do this for the practical purpose of
avoiding going on until next Christmas. Unless you want to play a game of
'whackamole' where each time I knock one down you pop up another from the
limitless supply of the contrarian lobby.

If I give you a rundown of the errors and fact and argument in the above
will you stick to the those points?


D

David Hare-Scott wrote:
Dick Adams wrote:
Keep in mind: Fiscal liberals are liars who teach their children how
to lie.

You know you are dealing with a religious issue when either side cannot
accept that their opposition acts in good faith and must be liars. But this
is how the climate change debate is conducted in the USA. Pile on as much
emotion and as few facts as possible, a tale told by an idiot, full of
sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Mr. Hare-Scott did not fully quote me. I was responding to someone who
was claiming climate was hocus pocus and it went like this:

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/12/7/the_most_obdurate_bully_in_the
let?s be very clear. Climate change is such a difficult issue for the
world,

Not really, it's bullshit pseudo "science" being used for socialist
redistribution of wealth and power. See? How simple is THAT?!

Close, but no cigar. Socialist politics aka Fiscal Liberalism is all
about redistribution of wealth and power. Climate change is very real.
The problem is that fiscal liberals want you to believe that the
change is caused by human behavior.

Keep in mind: Fiscal liberals are liars who teach their children how to lie

In article . 131,
Jane Galt wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote :

Keep in mind: Fiscal liberals are liars who teach their children how
to lie.

You know you are dealing with a religious issue when either side cannot
accept that their opposition acts in good faith and must be liars. But
this is how the climate change debate is conducted in the USA. Pile on
as much emotion and as few facts as possible, a tale told by an idiot,
full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Happy Solstice.

D



Has nothing to do with the fact that government FUNDED weather organizations
were lying with their data, we may actually be entering a period of global
cooling, and the climate has been changing for billions of years!

In fact there were periods in Europe when thet couldn't even grow crops and
were all starving, BEFORE modern carbon emissions!

I don't remember seeing you in the group before, welcome.

Just a note. If you want to assert something is a fact, you can buttress
it with a citation indicating where it can be found, and what
authorities support it.

For example:

http://scienceprogressaction.org/int...lobal-warming-
should-you-trust-the-wall-street-journal-or-chevron-exxonmobil-and-the-de
fense-department/

As of January 2012, several of the major global petroleum producers have
publicly acknowledged the negative effects of greenhouse gases on
Earth¹s atmosphere and undertaken steps to reduce CO2 emissions. Below
are a few quotes directly copied from their websites:

BP: ³Current forecasts underscore the size of the climate change
challenge. BP¹s analysis suggests that CO2 emissions could rise by at
least 27% by 2030, despite expected tightening in global climate policy.
Even assuming that more aggressive policy changes are enacted, carbon
emissions are likely to rise by up to 9% by 2030. We support policies
that we believe can address climate change while also making it possible
for society to meet growing demand for secure and affordable energy.²

ExxonMobil: ³Rising greenhouse-gas emissions pose significant risks
to society and ecosystems. Since most of these emissions are
energy-related, any integrated approach to meeting the world¹s growing
energy needs over the coming decades must incorporate strategies to
address the risk of climate change.²

Chevron: ³We recognize and share the concerns of governments and the
public about climate change. The use of fossil fuels to meet the world¹s
energy needs is a contributor to an increase in greenhouse gases
(GHGs)‹mainly carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane‹in the Earth¹s
atmosphere. There is a widespread view that this increase is leading to
climate change, with adverse effects on the environment.²
----

The article also mentions that the DoD is also preparing for global
climate change.
----

OK folks, start your grow lights, and get to gardening.

--
Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg
or
E Pluribus Unum
Next time vote Green Party

In article . 131,
Jane Galt wrote:

Rick wrote :

On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 15:22:03 +1100, "Farm1"
wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Keep in mind: Fiscal liberals are liars who teach their children how
to lie.

You know you are dealing with a religious issue when either side
cannot accept that their opposition acts in good faith and must be
liars. But this is how the climate change debate is conducted in the
USA. Pile on as much emotion and as few facts as possible, a tale
told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

It's something that really does irritate me because it makes it so much
harder to correct or castigate people when they apply the usual
stereotype to Americans.

Happy Solstice.

And to you and yours David.


There are a lot of climate change deniers in myriad countries- even
some Bengali's who are already wading up to their navels.

Oh? Are those the people who live on islands that are 3 feet above sea
level and flood whenever the weather gets stormy? The ones who are
cynically being used as poster children by the MMGW - "Man Made Global
Warming" whackos?


There is no climate debate in America. It must be very difficult for
those on the outside looking in to come to grips with Americas
religiosity and how it impacts our politics. To a coal miner in West
Virginia, with no other reasonable source of income, God put that coal
in the ground for him to dig up.


Yes, and if the liberals REALLY gave a crap about anything BUT Marxist
redistribution of wealth:

"There is enough nuclear fuel to last far longer than man will inhabit the
earth." - Physics Professor Emeritus Dr. Howard Hayden, author of The
Energy Advocate

ALL SAFE AND CLEAN, WITH MODERN PRE-PACKAGED PLANT DESIGNS.

But of course the liberals hate everything human and no energy solution is
acceptable. We all must revert to naked savages picking berries in the
fields, for these whackos to be happy!

When will it be safe for the farmers of Fukushima to resume their
livelihood, and grow non-toxic crops again?

--
Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg
or
E Pluribus Unum
Next time vote Green Party

Billy wrote:
....
When will it be safe for the farmers of Fukushima to resume their
livelihood, and grow non-toxic crops again?

depends upon who and where.

one plan puts clean up at 40 years.

if i were an older person without children
it wouldn't make that much difference as
hot spots can be detected and cleaned up
before a garden could be used.

for younger people who are hoping to
have children i'd wait...

right now with the plant still being
a possible source of more leaks it is too
risky to be too close. i wouldn't want
to be any place within 10 miles in general
and probably further away if it were down
wind of prevailing winds.

still, the country of Japan with such
limited land area it would make more sense
to get on top of this sooner rather than
later to get the land back into production.

i'm a bit more worried about what has been
and might be still dumped into the sea. a
contaminated fish can swim a long ways before
being caught.


songbird

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
...
When will it be safe for the farmers of Fukushima to resume their
livelihood, and grow non-toxic crops again?

depends upon who and where.

one plan puts clean up at 40 years.

if i were an older person without children
it wouldn't make that much difference as
hot spots can be detected and cleaned up
before a garden could be used.

for younger people who are hoping to
have children i'd wait...

right now with the plant still being
a possible source of more leaks it is too
risky to be too close. i wouldn't want
to be any place within 10 miles in general
and probably further away if it were down
wind of prevailing winds.

still, the country of Japan with such
limited land area it would make more sense
to get on top of this sooner rather than
later to get the land back into production.

i'm a bit more worried about what has been
and might be still dumped into the sea. a
contaminated fish can swim a long ways before
being caught.


songbird

I was thinking of farmers, not gardeners, Bird. Yeah, ma, and pa may be
too old to worry about getting cancer in 20 years, but farmers sell to
the full spectrum of society from geezers to those who are pregnant. All
the released radiation will have a statistical effect on large
populations, and devastating effects on those affected, for generations
to come.

The newly elected prime minister of Japan, Shinzo Abe, said that he will
seek to build new nuclear reactors, which will be completely different
from those at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. I guess the
acid test is whether the private companies, like Tokyo Electric Power
Co., will take responsibility for insuring their nuclear power plants
for public liability, or will they depend on the government, as here in
the U.S., to cover their liabilities.

Been having line problems with my DSL, so while I have the opportunity,
I'd like to wish all you gardeners a Happy New Year.

--
Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg
or
E Pluribus Unum
Next time vote Green Party

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Billy wrote:
...
When will it be safe for the farmers of Fukushima to resume their
livelihood, and grow non-toxic crops again?

depends upon who and where.

one plan puts clean up at 40 years.

if i were an older person without children
it wouldn't make that much difference as
hot spots can be detected and cleaned up
before a garden could be used.

for younger people who are hoping to
have children i'd wait...

right now with the plant still being
a possible source of more leaks it is too
risky to be too close. i wouldn't want
to be any place within 10 miles in general
and probably further away if it were down
wind of prevailing winds.

still, the country of Japan with such
limited land area it would make more sense
to get on top of this sooner rather than
later to get the land back into production.

i'm a bit more worried about what has been
and might be still dumped into the sea. a
contaminated fish can swim a long ways before
being caught.

I was thinking of farmers, not gardeners, Bird. Yeah, ma, and pa may be
too old to worry about getting cancer in 20 years, but farmers sell to
the full spectrum of society from geezers to those who are pregnant. All
the released radiation will have a statistical effect on large
populations, and devastating effects on those affected, for generations
to come.

this really depends. like i said above. one
area may have enough radioactive particles as to
make the topsoil unsafe for workers or anyone
who might ingest the dust. other spots may not
be so much that it would be all that different
from background radiation levels of any volcanic
origin.

and the fun part is that it really depends upon
not only how much radiation is there but what kind
of particles are giving off the radiation. some
particles will be made up of elements that will
decay within a few years time. others are going
to be there for ever.

for the worst areas they could take the top
layer of soil and invert it so that it is
below the most biologically active zone (depends
upon frost/thaw cycles and the fauna that moves
soils). more moderate to lightly contaminated
areas are likely too expensive to cleanup and
could be turned with a deep plow and then used
without too much of a problem.

ok, so to go a little further you have to also
look at each plant species to see what they take
up. some will not take up much at all. turn the
soil deep enough and plant shallow rooted plants
and that could easily cover 90-99% of the area
affected for not much $. the rest of the 10-1%
is where the big $ will be spent and much of it
will be wasted.


The newly elected prime minister of Japan, Shinzo Abe, said that he will
seek to build new nuclear reactors, which will be completely different
from those at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. I guess the
acid test is whether the private companies, like Tokyo Electric Power
Co., will take responsibility for insuring their nuclear power plants
for public liability, or will they depend on the government, as here in
the U.S., to cover their liabilities.

i hope the design is safe and they don't build the
things close to the ocean, fault lines or other populated
areas... which for Japan pretty much rules out all of it.


Been having line problems with my DSL, so while I have the opportunity,
I'd like to wish all you gardeners a Happy New Year.

thanks! it's been a riot so far.


songbird

David Hare-Scott wrote:
Jane Galt wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote :

Keep in mind: Fiscal liberals are liars who teach their children
how to lie.

You know you are dealing with a religious issue when either side
cannot accept that their opposition acts in good faith and must be
liars. But this is how the climate change debate is conducted in
the USA. Pile on as much emotion and as few facts as possible, a
tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Happy Solstice.

D



Has nothing to do with the fact that government FUNDED weather
organizations were lying with their data, we may actually be entering
a period of global cooling, and the climate has been changing for
billions of years!

In fact there were periods in Europe when thet couldn't even grow
crops and were all starving, BEFORE modern carbon emissions!

I am not attempting to censor the debate but to use a small group of
points to illustrate the situation. I want to do this for the
practical purpose of avoiding going on until next Christmas. Unless
you want to play a game of 'whackamole' where each time I knock one
down you pop up another from the limitless supply of the contrarian
lobby.

If I give you a rundown of the errors and fact and argument in the
above will you stick to the those points?


D

Apparently not

D

Billy wrote :

In article . 131,
Jane Galt wrote:

Rick wrote :

On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 15:22:03 +1100, "Farm1"
wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Keep in mind: Fiscal liberals are liars who teach their children
how to lie.

You know you are dealing with a religious issue when either side
cannot accept that their opposition acts in good faith and must be
liars. But this is how the climate change debate is conducted in
the USA. Pile on as much emotion and as few facts as possible, a
tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

It's something that really does irritate me because it makes it so
much harder to correct or castigate people when they apply the usual
stereotype to Americans.

Happy Solstice.

And to you and yours David.


There are a lot of climate change deniers in myriad countries- even
some Bengali's who are already wading up to their navels.

Oh? Are those the people who live on islands that are 3 feet above sea
level and flood whenever the weather gets stormy? The ones who are
cynically being used as poster children by the MMGW - "Man Made Global
Warming" whackos?


There is no climate debate in America. It must be very difficult for
those on the outside looking in to come to grips with Americas
religiosity and how it impacts our politics. To a coal miner in West
Virginia, with no other reasonable source of income, God put that
coal in the ground for him to dig up.


Yes, and if the liberals REALLY gave a crap about anything BUT Marxist
redistribution of wealth:

"There is enough nuclear fuel to last far longer than man will inhabit
the earth." - Physics Professor Emeritus Dr. Howard Hayden, author of
The Energy Advocate

ALL SAFE AND CLEAN, WITH MODERN PRE-PACKAGED PLANT DESIGNS.

But of course the liberals hate everything human and no energy solution
is acceptable. We all must revert to naked savages picking berries in
the fields, for these whackos to be happy!

When will it be safe for the farmers of Fukushima to resume their
livelihood, and grow non-toxic crops again?


Who was harmed by it?

Billy wrote :

In article . 131,
Jane Galt wrote:

Rick wrote :

On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 15:22:03 +1100, "Farm1"
wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Keep in mind: Fiscal liberals are liars who teach their children
how to lie.

You know you are dealing with a religious issue when either side
cannot accept that their opposition acts in good faith and must be
liars. But this is how the climate change debate is conducted in
the USA. Pile on as much emotion and as few facts as possible, a
tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

It's something that really does irritate me because it makes it so
much harder to correct or castigate people when they apply the usual
stereotype to Americans.

Happy Solstice.

And to you and yours David.


There are a lot of climate change deniers in myriad countries- even
some Bengali's who are already wading up to their navels.

Oh? Are those the people who live on islands that are 3 feet above sea
level and flood whenever the weather gets stormy? The ones who are
cynically being used as poster children by the MMGW - "Man Made Global
Warming" whackos?


There is no climate debate in America. It must be very difficult for
those on the outside looking in to come to grips with Americas
religiosity and how it impacts our politics. To a coal miner in West
Virginia, with no other reasonable source of income, God put that
coal in the ground for him to dig up.


Yes, and if the liberals REALLY gave a crap about anything BUT Marxist
redistribution of wealth:

"There is enough nuclear fuel to last far longer than man will inhabit
the earth." - Physics Professor Emeritus Dr. Howard Hayden, author of
The Energy Advocate

ALL SAFE AND CLEAN, WITH MODERN PRE-PACKAGED PLANT DESIGNS.

But of course the liberals hate everything human and no energy solution
is acceptable. We all must revert to naked savages picking berries in
the fields, for these whackos to be happy!

When will it be safe for the farmers of Fukushima to resume their
livelihood, and grow non-toxic crops again?


http://www.planetarybillofrights.org...orAllTime.html

songbird wrote :

Billy wrote:
...
When will it be safe for the farmers of Fukushima to resume their
livelihood, and grow non-toxic crops again?

depends upon who and where.

one plan puts clean up at 40 years.

if i were an older person without children
it wouldn't make that much difference as
hot spots can be detected and cleaned up
before a garden could be used.

for younger people who are hoping to
have children i'd wait...

right now with the plant still being
a possible source of more leaks it is too
risky to be too close. i wouldn't want
to be any place within 10 miles in general
and probably further away if it were down
wind of prevailing winds.

still, the country of Japan with such
limited land area it would make more sense
to get on top of this sooner rather than
later to get the land back into production.

i'm a bit more worried about what has been
and might be still dumped into the sea. a
contaminated fish can swim a long ways before
being caught.


songbird


It's a solution without any problem.