Rain, in So. Calif, Oct 9??? Surprise. Supposed to start, IF it ever comes, somewhere in November.

Or did I do it: washing the car and patio and watering the garden (too long; I buy a damn timer and always forget to set it! Water VERY expensive here.)

The seasons that used to be rock-solid steady have shifted over the last 2-3 years. Food plants that used to be sowed or transplanted at X season are not doing well. I may just throw it in next year...but I always say that....

But of course global warming is unproven, say the whore scientists hired by the industries that don't want to be forced to curb their carbon emissions.. Their well-paid flacks do a great job sowing doubt in the minds of the 99% of the public that don't know how or don't want to be bothered reading the readily-accessible research.

Apes moi, le deluge...

HB

On 10/9/2013 7:12 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
Rain, in So. Calif, Oct 9??? Surprise. Supposed to start, IF it ever comes, somewhere in November.

Or did I do it: washing the car and patio and watering the garden (too long; I buy a damn timer and always forget to set it! Water VERY expensive here.)

The seasons that used to be rock-solid steady have shifted over the last 2-3 years. Food plants that used to be sowed or transplanted at X season are not doing well. I may just throw it in next year...but I always say that...

But of course global warming is unproven, say the whore scientists hired by the industries that don't want to be forced to curb their carbon emissions. Their well-paid flacks do a great job sowing doubt in the minds of the 99% of the public that don't know how or don't want to be bothered reading the readily-accessible research.

Apes moi, le deluge...

HB


Bet you did not know that sunlight falling on the earth in one hour is
equivalent to the energy generated by mankind in one year.

If the earth is warming, who is more responsible, man or the sun?
(Hint, Mars is also warming.)

Also, who employs all the climatologists making these dire warnings -
industry or government?

The Democratic governor of Delaware was royally ****ed when the state
climatologist, a professor at the University of Delaware, said that when
Mother Nature comes, we should get out of her way.

Seriously, the science is unsettled. Global warming is a political
issue. Those that want the government to control everything are those
that are running the show.

On 10/10/2013 8:33 AM, Frank wrote:
Bet you did not know that sunlight falling on the earth in one hour is
equivalent to the energy generated by mankind in one year.

If the earth is warming, who is more responsible, man or the sun?
(Hint, Mars is also warming.)

Is that ignorance or political spin? The matter is not the amount of heat
arriving at the surface from the Sun -- it is the matter of how much is
departing. If they are equal then the overall temperature of the system
does not change. If the atmosphere traps more heat then the overall
temperature rises. Mankind cannot control how much radiation arrives but it
has managed to reduce how much is leaving and the results, should one read
the studies by atmospheric scientists rather than listen to Fox, are pretty
clear. The amount of man-caused increase may vary by fiddling amounts
between the studies but you will find that 95%+ of them say that it is
happening.

In article ,
John McGaw wrote:

On 10/10/2013 8:33 AM, Frank wrote:
Bet you did not know that sunlight falling on the earth in one hour is
equivalent to the energy generated by mankind in one year.

If the earth is warming, who is more responsible, man or the sun?
(Hint, Mars is also warming.)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...s-warming.html

Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's
Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is
evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by
changes in the sun.

Abdussamatov's work, however, has not been well received by other
climate scientists.

"His views are completely at odds with the mainstream scientific
opinion," said Colin Wilson, a planetary physicist at England's Oxford
University.

"And they contradict the extensive evidence presented in the most recent
IPCC [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] report." (Related:
"Global Warming 'Very Likely' Caused by Humans, World Climate Experts
Say" [February 2, 2007].)
-----

We also shouldn't forget that 2/3 of the planet is covered in water.
With evaporative cooling, the planet can absorb more heat without the
temperature rising. That water vapor, though, when it re-condenses in a
storm, will release energy to drive the storm. The more condensation,
the bigger the storm.



Is that ignorance or political spin? The matter is not the amount of heat
arriving at the surface from the Sun -- it is the matter of how much is
departing. If they are equal then the overall temperature of the system
does not change. If the atmosphere traps more heat then the overall
temperature rises. Mankind cannot control how much radiation arrives but it
has managed to reduce how much is leaving and the results, should one read
the studies by atmospheric scientists rather than listen to Fox, are pretty
clear. The amount of man-caused increase may vary by fiddling amounts
between the studies but you will find that 95%+ of them say that it is
happening.
--
Palestinian Child Detained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg

Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

On Thursday, October 10, 2013 5:33:10 AM UTC-7, Frank wrote:
On 10/9/2013 7:12 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Rain, in So. Calif, Oct 9??? Surprise. Supposed to start, IF it ever comes, somewhere in November.



Or did I do it: washing the car and patio and watering the garden (too long; I buy a damn timer and always forget to set it! Water VERY expensive here.)



The seasons that used to be rock-solid steady have shifted over the last 2-3 years. Food plants that used to be sowed or transplanted at X season are not doing well. I may just throw it in next year...but I always say that...



But of course global warming is unproven, say the whore scientists hired by the industries that don't want to be forced to curb their carbon emissions. Their well-paid flacks do a great job sowing doubt in the minds of the 99% of the public that don't know how or don't want to be bothered reading the readily-accessible research.



Apes moi, le deluge...



HB





Bet you did not know that sunlight falling on the earth in one hour is

equivalent to the energy generated by mankind in one year.



If the earth is warming, who is more responsible, man or the sun?

(Hint, Mars is also warming.)



Also, who employs all the climatologists making these dire warnings -

industry or government?

Industry pays whore "scientists" to shed doubt on what responsible climate scientists ****without an axe to grind**** are reporting.


The Democratic governor of Delaware was royally ****ed when the state

climatologist, a professor at the University of Delaware, said that when

Mother Nature comes, we should get out of her way.

Apres nous, le deluge.



Seriously, the science is unsettled.

No, it isn't Frank. It's been settled for over 30 years, when James Hansen first testified before Congress. Everything he and responsible climate scientists have predicted is coming true. And many fear that the "tipping point" has been passed.

It boggles the mind that these people, who have children and grand-children, can blind themselves to the mind-***ing they are taking from those who value short-term profit over long-term survival. Truly, it's "apres moi le deluge".
You'd think we had learned something. But it's always easier to hide under the bed than to confront the demons.

Global warming is a political
issue. Those that want the government to control everything are those
that are running the show.

You have been well-trained to ingest and regurgitate their $pin.
Sorry to hear it. Aren't you even a LITTLE concerned that the Big Boys are playing with your head, when every responsible climate scientist is unanimous that global warming is aganthropogenic?

How much actual research have you done on the issue?

Sometime, when you have a few spare minutes, look up the credentials of the whore scientists who are well-paid to spread doubts in our minds. You will find that their PhDs, if any, come from the equivalent of Podunk U, and are NOT in fields even distantly related to climate science.

HB

On 10/9/2013 4:12 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Rain, in So. Calif, Oct 9??? Surprise. Supposed to start, IF it
ever comes, somewhere in November.

Or did I do it: washing the car and patio and watering the garden
(too long; I buy a damn timer and always forget to set it! Water VERY
expensive here.)

The seasons that used to be rock-solid steady have shifted over the
last 2-3 years. Food plants that used to be sowed or transplanted at
X season are not doing well. I may just throw it in next year...but
I always say that...

But of course global warming is unproven, say the whore scientists
hired by the industries that don't want to be forced to curb their
carbon emissions. Their well-paid flacks do a great job sowing doubt
in the minds of the 99% of the public that don't know how or don't
want to be bothered reading the readily-accessible research.

Apes moi, le deluge...

HB


Malibu 0.11 inches
Beverly Hills 0.03
USC 0.04
CHE 0.03 (my local weather station, about 2 miles north of
US 101 and just east of Oak Park)
I can't find a weather station in Santa Monica that records and archives
precipitation. In most parts of southern California, too little rain
fell to hold down dust let alone end the danger of brush fires.

As for climate change, we should stop arguing about why it is happening.
It is happening. Ask the almond growers in the California Central
Valley, who are experiencing crop declines because of insufficient
winter chill for their trees. Ask the Canadian government, which is
trying to assert control over the North-West Passage now that commercial
shipping is possible through the Artic Ocean. Ask the city of San
Francisco and surrounding cities, which are concerned about their water
supply as the Maclure and Lyell Glaciers (feeding the Hetch Hetchy
Reservoir) retreat. We should concern ourselves with preparing for the
results of climate change and with preventing it from becoming worse.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

Higgs Boson wrote:
....
No, it isn't Frank. It's been settled for over 30 years,
when James Hansen first testified before Congress.
Everything he and responsible climate scientists have
predicted is coming true. And many fear that the "tipping
point" has been passed.

i think it is hard for older people to admit that they
have done so much damage, it is easier on their egos and
their sense of guilt to find another scapegoat instead
of looking in the mirror.


songbird

On Thursday, October 10, 2013 5:38:12 PM UTC-7, David E. Ross wrote:
On 10/9/2013 4:12 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:



Rain, in So. Calif, Oct 9??? Surprise. Supposed to start, IF it

ever comes, somewhere in November.



Or did I do it: washing the car and patio and watering the garden

(too long; I buy a damn timer and always forget to set it! Water VERY

expensive here.)



The seasons that used to be rock-solid steady have shifted over the

last 2-3 years. Food plants that used to be sowed or transplanted at

X season are not doing well. I may just throw it in next year...but

I always say that...



But of course global warming is unproven, say the whore scientists

hired by the industries that don't want to be forced to curb their

carbon emissions. Their well-paid flacks do a great job sowing doubt

in the minds of the 99% of the public that don't know how or don't

want to be bothered reading the readily-accessible research.



Apes moi, le deluge...



HB





Malibu 0.11 inches

Beverly Hills 0.03

USC 0.04

CHE 0.03 (my local weather station, about 2 miles north of

US 101 and just east of Oak Park)

I can't find a weather station in Santa Monica that records and archives

precipitation. In most parts of southern California, too little rain

fell to hold down dust let alone end the danger of brush fires.

It was just a nice little morning rain that made my plants very happy. What surprised me was that it was so early. Given the desert we live in, I'll take whatever Mother Nature dishes out, rain-wise!


As for climate change, we should stop arguing about why it is happening.

It is happening. Ask the almond growers in the California Central

Valley, who are experiencing crop declines because of insufficient

winter chill for their trees. Ask the Canadian government, which is

trying to assert control over the North-West Passage now that commercial

shipping is possible through the Artic Ocean. Ask the city of San

Francisco and surrounding cities, which are concerned about their water

supply as the Maclure and Lyell Glaciers (feeding the Hetch Hetchy

Reservoir) retreat. We should concern ourselves with preparing for the

results of climate change and with preventing it from becoming worse.

If it's not too late.

Alas, there is still a sizeable contingent -- maybe a majority -- of "Franks" among us, who see what they want to see, or what they have been brainwashed into seeing. The old Determination Bias again.

BTW, I must offer a public apology to sex workers for comparing Members of Congress and hired "scientists" to them. The sex workers actually deliver value for payment, whereas the other crowd only lines their pockets at the expense of ourselves and our posterity (and theirs!)

HB

David E. Ross wrote:
On 10/9/2013 4:12 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Rain, in So. Calif, Oct 9??? Surprise. Supposed to start, IF it
ever comes, somewhere in November.

Or did I do it: washing the car and patio and watering the garden
(too long; I buy a damn timer and always forget to set it! Water VERY
expensive here.)

The seasons that used to be rock-solid steady have shifted over the
last 2-3 years. Food plants that used to be sowed or transplanted at
X season are not doing well. I may just throw it in next year...but
I always say that...

But of course global warming is unproven, say the whore scientists
hired by the industries that don't want to be forced to curb their
carbon emissions. Their well-paid flacks do a great job sowing doubt
in the minds of the 99% of the public that don't know how or don't
want to be bothered reading the readily-accessible research.

Apes moi, le deluge...

HB


Malibu 0.11 inches
Beverly Hills 0.03
USC 0.04
CHE 0.03 (my local weather station, about 2 miles north of
US 101 and just east of Oak Park)
I can't find a weather station in Santa Monica that records and
archives precipitation. In most parts of southern California, too
little rain fell to hold down dust let alone end the danger of brush
fires.

As for climate change, we should stop arguing about why it is
happening. It is happening. Ask the almond growers in the California
Central Valley, who are experiencing crop declines because of
insufficient winter chill for their trees. Ask the Canadian
government, which is trying to assert control over the North-West
Passage now that commercial shipping is possible through the Artic
Ocean. Ask the city of San Francisco and surrounding cities, which
are concerned about their water supply as the Maclure and Lyell
Glaciers (feeding the Hetch Hetchy Reservoir) retreat. We should
concern ourselves with preparing for the results of climate change
and with preventing it from becoming worse.

No no no. If you close your eyes and block your ears while you sing LA LA
LA very loudly you can neither see nor hear anything to do with climate
change. Besides it's all a left wing conspiracy aimed at installing a
socialist world government that will remove your rights: to vote, to wash
your socks whenever you like and to celebrate Christmas.

And keep in mind you are dealing with Frank. Recall Mark Twain , "The
problem with folks is not what they don't know but what they know that just
ain't so"


D

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
The seasons that used to be rock-solid steady have shifted over the last 2-3
years. Food plants that used to be sowed or transplanted at X season are
not doing well. ______________________________________
How lucky are you that it's only happened in the last couple of years. Here
in aus, those changes hit at least 15 years ago an dnow it's only the super
thickwits who deny that we are in deep doodoo from a changing climate.



But of course global warming is unproven, say the whore scientists hired by
the industries that don't want to be forced to curb their carbon emissions.
Their well-paid flacks do a great job sowing doubt in the minds of the 99%
of the public that don't know how or don't want to be bothered reading the
readily-accessible research.
____________________________
They can read? You shock me.

David E. Ross wrote:
....
Malibu 0.11 inches
Beverly Hills 0.03
USC 0.04
CHE 0.03 (my local weather station, about 2 miles north of
US 101 and just east of Oak Park)

I can't find a weather station in Santa Monica that records and archives
precipitation. In most parts of southern California, too little rain
fell to hold down dust let alone end the danger of brush fires.

As for climate change, we should stop arguing about why it is happening.
It is happening. Ask the almond growers in the California Central
Valley, who are experiencing crop declines because of insufficient
winter chill for their trees. Ask the Canadian government, which is
trying to assert control over the North-West Passage now that commercial
shipping is possible through the Artic Ocean. Ask the city of San
Francisco and surrounding cities, which are concerned about their water
supply as the Maclure and Lyell Glaciers (feeding the Hetch Hetchy
Reservoir) retreat. We should concern ourselves with preparing for the
results of climate change and with preventing it from becoming worse.

so you seem to be in the category of at least thinking that
climate change is worth some response. i'm glad to hear it.
so many others think that nothing can be done or don't care or
deny it as being relevant.

if people understand compound interest/effects then it is not
too hard to see that any degree of carbon sequestration or
reduction they can support that will have a multifold future
pay off. the changes in infrastructure costs will be huge if
the oceans continue to rise (and so far they've already got
some degree of rise built in just from what we've already
done)... we need to act a lot faster and more determinedly.

it is just too bad that so many others don't give a rats
ass, so those of us who do have to think even harder and
try to offset not only our own carbon emissions, but also
those of others.

if i were an ethical and principled grocer selling produce
i would give all my customers an option to pay a carbon tax
or to get a carbon credit for how they transported themselves
to getting my produce and how carbon efficient they were
living. all voluntary and all proceeds to be aimed at
projects to further suck carbon from the air. i wonder what
the response would be?


songbird

On Friday, October 11, 2013 9:54:39 PM UTC-7, songbird wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:

...

Malibu 0.11 inches

Beverly Hills 0.03

USC 0.04

CHE 0.03 (my local weather station, about 2 miles north of

US 101 and just east of Oak Park)
[...]

if i were an ethical and principled grocer selling produce

i would give all my customers an option to pay a carbon tax

or to get a carbon credit for how they transported themselves

to getting my produce and how carbon efficient they were

living. all voluntary and all proceeds to be aimed at

projects to further suck carbon from the air. i wonder what

the response would be?

Song, darlin', you are too optimistic about the ability of the common people (ducks to avoid blows) to relate to anything more abstract than their daily struggle to survive and to the local sports team.

Just look at what the media feeds them on TV. Mute the sound and observe the array of products the consumer is being hustled to buy as ESSENTIAL to their health and sexuality. Even the cars are sexy...

If your putative customer of the ethical grocer paid .00001% attention to global warming as he/she does to the latest I-phone,pad, whatever coming on the market we might have a shot at stopping -- since reversing is probably off the table -- the trend to disruption of global weather patterns.

But much as I would love to, I don't think the consumer is capable of abstract thinking. When pushed hard enough, they resort to venting their rage against whatever group is handy.

That's what happened in Germany post WW-I, after the old men running the Allies made a VERY ill-considered judgment to punish the German people by starving them and exacting enormous reparations. Exactly what could have been predicted happened: The common people vented their rage against -- you got it!

As one who lost most of my family in that catastrophe, I'm far from giving the Germans a pass -- their Jew hatred goes back centuries -- far beyond WW I or preceding wars. I'm just saying that a more sensible solution, such as the Marshall Plan after WW II, might have avoided a backlash of historic magnitude.

All this to re-make the point that the common people can barely see beyond the ends of their noses. Especially in a culture like the U.S. where money counts way, way, way ahead of social justice.

HB