In article
"David E. Ross" writes:

Almost a month ago, I added Todd to my filters on this newsgroup, to
mark all of his messages as deleted.

I've been tempted, but he still has some mild amusement value.

I'm an old-fart and still read news with trn, so I see a list of
participants before selecting a thread. When I see Todd listed, I
go in with "what is he going to come up with now?" filters running.
(There are others here and there with similar expectations.)

--
Drew Lawson

". . . And I never give a reason"
-- God, as channeled by Seven Nations

In article
Fran Farmer writes:

Yebbut the 3 US posters other than you who are in this thread would be
considered to be on the extreme rabid right in other first world countries.

The US has long had a bad reputation for exploitation of workers. It
wasn't always so and at one time it had a fine history but not since
WWII at least.

Yep. We haven't had much of a left wing for several decades.
It has reached the point that a non-trivial segment of the population
thinks having public schools equates to repressive socialism.

In addition tourists gripe where tips are expected to be handed over
after any form of service provision. Employers who expect customers to
pay for both goods received and then service provided by their employee
rather than them pay a proper wage are considered to be exploitative.

I forget where, but I read an interesting article a month or three
back on tipping. Turns out that when it started, many US states
considered it so vulgar that there were laws prohibiting it.

--
Drew Lawson | "But the senator, while insisting he was not
| intoxicated, could not explain his nudity."

On 7/14/2014 4:53 AM, Frank wrote:
On 7/13/2014 8:11 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 13/07/2014 3:21 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Saturday, July 12, 2014 8:07:28 PM UTC-7, Fran Farmer wrote:



It is very painful to have lived through better times and see one's
beloved country losing its soul.

I know exactly what you mean. You can at least take comfort in knowing
that at least the residents of your country can manage to elect a
President who seems like a decent human being. Sad tough about all the
vitriolic comments that are sent his way - no doubt due to him dusky
skin colour and the red colour of the necks of those who make such
comments.

You should see the creep we have heading up our country at the moment,
and none of his hangers on seem to be any better. I never used to feel
ashamed of my country but increasingly that is how I am feeling.

Yup:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/BNRT0P-oZfw#t=39


Yup????

I believe Fran Farmer is in Australia and commenting about Tony Abbott,
the Prime Minister.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On 7/14/2014 5:30 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
"David E. Ross" writes:

Almost a month ago, I added Todd to my filters on this newsgroup, to
mark all of his messages as deleted.

I've been tempted, but he still has some mild amusement value.

I'm an old-fart and still read news with trn, so I see a list of
participants before selecting a thread. When I see Todd listed, I
go in with "what is he going to come up with now?" filters running.
(There are others here and there with similar expectations.)


I might be an even older fart (less than a month away from turning 73).
My doctor has me on medication for high blood pressure. I filter Todd
because I don't want to counteract my meds.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On 7/14/2014 11:24 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 7/14/2014 4:53 AM, Frank wrote:
On 7/13/2014 8:11 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 13/07/2014 3:21 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Saturday, July 12, 2014 8:07:28 PM UTC-7, Fran Farmer wrote:



It is very painful to have lived through better times and see one's
beloved country losing its soul.

I know exactly what you mean. You can at least take comfort in knowing
that at least the residents of your country can manage to elect a
President who seems like a decent human being. Sad tough about all the
vitriolic comments that are sent his way - no doubt due to him dusky
skin colour and the red colour of the necks of those who make such
comments.

You should see the creep we have heading up our country at the moment,
and none of his hangers on seem to be any better. I never used to feel
ashamed of my country but increasingly that is how I am feeling.

Yup:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/BNRT0P-oZfw#t=39


Yup????

I believe Fran Farmer is in Australia and commenting about Tony Abbott,
the Prime Minister.


She's still coming from the left.

On 7/14/2014 11:26 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 7/14/2014 5:30 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
"David E. Ross" writes:

Almost a month ago, I added Todd to my filters on this newsgroup, to
mark all of his messages as deleted.

I've been tempted, but he still has some mild amusement value.

I'm an old-fart and still read news with trn, so I see a list of
participants before selecting a thread. When I see Todd listed, I
go in with "what is he going to come up with now?" filters running.
(There are others here and there with similar expectations.)


I might be an even older fart (less than a month away from turning 73).
My doctor has me on medication for high blood pressure. I filter Todd
because I don't want to counteract my meds.


I'm even older.
If you go back to the original post it was on topic but HB twisted it.
I don't filter anybody that is on topic most of the time. There are few
ng contributors left.

On 07/14/2014 10:01 AM, Frank wrote:
On 7/14/2014 11:26 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 7/14/2014 5:30 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
"David E. Ross" writes:

Almost a month ago, I added Todd to my filters on this newsgroup, to
mark all of his messages as deleted.

I've been tempted, but he still has some mild amusement value.

I'm an old-fart and still read news with trn, so I see a list of
participants before selecting a thread. When I see Todd listed, I
go in with "what is he going to come up with now?" filters running.
(There are others here and there with similar expectations.)


I might be an even older fart (less than a month away from turning 73).
My doctor has me on medication for high blood pressure. I filter Todd
because I don't want to counteract my meds.


I'm even older.
If you go back to the original post it was on topic but HB twisted it.
I don't filter anybody that is on topic most of the time. There are few
ng contributors left.

I have only responded. I have never started a political
discussion. Thank you for noticing.

On Sunday, July 13, 2014 6:35:36 PM UTC-7, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 13/07/2014 5:21 PM, Todd wrote:

On 07/12/2014 08:07 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:

On 12/07/2014 12:28 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

On Friday, July 11, 2014 4:56:45 PM UTC-7, Frank wrote:





HB never misses an opportunity to throw in his leftist politics.



Now we learn that paying workers a decent wage rather than exploiting

people who have no alternative is "leftist politics".





Yebbut the 3 US posters other than you who are in this thread would be

considered to be on the extreme rabid right in other first world

countries.



Only in your mind.



People with your views sit politically on the far right on the world

stage. You might manage to figure this out if you used your passport

more and/or read more of the world press.



Maybe Higgs' too. Were three are pretty much in

the middle of the conservative (Jeffersonian Liberal) movement.



"Conservative, (Jeffersonian Liberal)" says it all as you would realise

if you had knew what you were writing about or got out more.



You clearly have no idea what the rest of the world reads or sees or

thinks about the politics of US citizens.



You and Higgs and out in left field with the goats. Neither one of

you are capable of the interchange of idea necessary for the

proper health of a representative republic. Both of you just

throw insults. Then accuse other of being intolerant and closed

minded.



Speaking of insults.....



The US has long had a bad reputation for exploitation of workers.



Leftover old war b*** s***.



Your ignorance can't change the history of the Labor movement either in

the US or around the world. Do some reading on it.



It

wasn't always so and at one time it had a fine history but not since

WWII at least. Low wages paid in the US get very bad comments and press

here from tourists and the media. Wal-mart has been one of the

companies mentioned but not the only one.





More leftover old war b*** s***.



What a stupidly illogical comment.



When were you in my country? For how long? How many returning tourists

did you speak to? Which newspapers TV channels and radio stations did

you follow?



In addition tourists gripe where tips are expected to be handed over

after any form of service provision. Employers who expect customers to

pay for both goods received and then service provided by their employee

rather than them pay a proper wage are considered to be exploitative.



We let the market determine what you are pain (in most cases).

This is how freedom and the free market works. If you want elitists

to choose who pays what, then if the best case you get a decaying

European socialist toilet. In the worst case, you get a Nazi/Soviet

style socialist tyranny.



More ignorance on your part. Do some reading on Political Science

before you use terms that you clearly don't understand. 'National

Socialism' is far right. 'Soviet Socialism' is far left.



And before you repeat your ridiculous comment based on the presence of a

word that causes alarm bells to go off in that cranial cavity of yours,

you might wonder why the long form of the name of North Korea is the

'Democratic People's Republic of Korea'.



You are forgetting, in America, even the poor people are fat.

ESPECIALLY the poor people! They can only afford the appalling stuff served in fast-food chains. They are often ignorant of good nutrition and exercise.
Well-intentioned groups/schools/organizations try to bring understanding of those factors to their clients, but the price of good fruits and vegetables and meat/fish is often beyond their means. To wean people away from cheap (and ghastly) TV entertainment and/or computer games and into walking, biking, any form of outdoor exercise is VERY difficult..

So that's why non-poor people are slim and poor people are (often) fat.

'Fat' is a physical condition. 'Exploited' is a political and social

condition. 'You' are ignorant and parochial and rabid and right wing.

Sigh! You're describing, alas, a good chunk of the American electorate (those who bother to vote).*

* (BTW, how does compulsory voting work in OZ?)
Being uninformed worked fairly OK when we had two big oceans between us and the rest of the world, and when we were still puffed up with the 1950's post WW II "white picket fence" prosperity. (At the price of many lives)

But that strain of anti-intellectualism that has ALWAYS pervaded the American psyche, since Day One, no longer cuts it in the days of international everything, from finance to food to weapons to travel to commerce to...

We are no longer able to elect leaders who think their job is to serve the people, not just make a buck and to hell with the environment. The few who try to run for office on a human being platform are drowned out by the gazillions spent by Our Corporate Masters and their funders.

Our tax laws are passed in favor of the .01% by their lackeys in The Best Little Whorehouse in Washington. A few attempts are made to repatriate the ENORMOUS sums sequestered in foreign tax havens, but it's rough going.

I used to exhort people to get out there and vote, but am sadly facing the reality that, inter alia, SCOTUS has put the icing on the cake. This country is now for sale to the highest bidder.

What kind of country will my children live in after I'm gone.

HB

On 07/14/2014 12:57 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
snip

ESPECIALLY the poor people! They can only afford the appalling stuff served in fast-food chains. They are often ignorant of good nutrition and exercise.
Well-intentioned groups/schools/organizations try to bring understanding of those factors to their clients, but the price of good fruits and vegetables and meat/fish is often beyond their means. To wean people away from cheap (and ghastly) TV entertainment and/or computer games and into walking, biking, any form of outdoor exercise is VERY difficult..

Hi Higgs,

I think there is more going on here than your think.
After my diabetes injury and I started a Paleo diet
(no grains, minor amounts of starches, and no preprepared
food) I did not notice my weekly food budged going up much at
all. Maybe $5.00. I would say 95% of what my family eats is
home cooked. The rest, very carefully selected.

I think what is going on here is 1) poor or no home cooking and
2) addictive food like substances. I certainly loved my
pasta. "Healthy carbs" my ass. I was pretty addicted and
did not realize it until I hurt myself.

The real foods you are talking about (and I now eat) are
low profit margin food. Empty carbs (grains, etc.) are
high margin (not for the farmer, unfortunately). So,
the powers that be push the crap. You see it all the
time as don't eat fat, eat healthy carbs. Follow the money.

Songbird elaborates beautifully on the food like substance
subject. I cheer her on.

Also, bear in mind, that (my opinion) conventional produce
tastes like crap.

So that's why non-poor people are slim and poor people are (often) fat.

I have not noticed that. Pretty women (if you can call skinny women
that) seek out successful (wealthy) men would are delighted to
oblige them. The old sex object, success object thing. Maybe that
is what you are noticing? I could be wrong. Women take a lot more
crap over their weight than men do.


'Fat' is a physical condition. 'Exploited' is a political and social

I wonder what the rest of that sentence was. But so far, I
have to agree with you. Fat bigotry is alive and well. The
diet industry makes a ton of money off them. The medical industry
has a tendency to treat fat people like crap.

snip

But that strain of anti-intellectualism that has ALWAYS pervaded the American psyche, since Day One

A good thing. See the Thomas Paine quote below.

snip
... just make a buck and to hell with the environment.

The environment has been getting better all my life. I am
not sure what you are talking about. No one wants dirty
air and polluted water, especially not the conservative
movement. A lot of us are outdoors-men (I am), hunt,
fish, etc.. We definitely do not want the environment
harmed.

Here is some great environmental news. Our air quality is
getting much better over the last 10 years.

http://www.popsci.com/article/scienc...-air-pollution

-T

This quote from Thomas Paine's Common Sense (1776) will help
you understand the conservative movement and why we are actually
a bunch of radicals. His words are why were lost more of a
percent of our population in war than any other war (General
Washington had all his troops read this several times). If
you understand what he is saying, you may be able to offer
more constructive criticism of our movement. (I don't think
it will convince you, just be more constructive in your
criticism. You are definitely on the other side of this issue.)

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even
in its best state is but a necessary evil. We have it in
our power to begin the world over again.

Some writers have so confounded society with government,
as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas
they are not only different, but have different origins.
Society is produced by our wants, and government by our
wickedness; the former promotes our happiness POSITIVELY
by uniting our affections, the latter NEGATIVELY by
restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse,
the other creates distinctions. The first a patron, the
last a punisher.

Todd wrote:

After my diabetes injury and I started a Paleo diet

Yo, schmuck... this is a gardening newsgroup... move your health
issues elsewhere.

On 15/07/2014 2:59 AM, Frank wrote:
On 7/14/2014 11:24 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 7/14/2014 4:53 AM, Frank wrote:
On 7/13/2014 8:11 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 13/07/2014 3:21 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Saturday, July 12, 2014 8:07:28 PM UTC-7, Fran Farmer wrote:



It is very painful to have lived through better times and see one's
beloved country losing its soul.

I know exactly what you mean. You can at least take comfort in knowing
that at least the residents of your country can manage to elect a
President who seems like a decent human being. Sad tough about all the
vitriolic comments that are sent his way - no doubt due to him dusky
skin colour and the red colour of the necks of those who make such
comments.

You should see the creep we have heading up our country at the moment,
and none of his hangers on seem to be any better. I never used to feel
ashamed of my country but increasingly that is how I am feeling.

Yup:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/BNRT0P-oZfw#t=39


Yup????

I believe Fran Farmer is in Australia and commenting about Tony Abbott,
the Prime Minister.


She's still coming from the left.

Only to someone on the US right.

I'm from a very long term middling position. Some issues I am extremely
right wing but generally I hold a middle position and some issues I am
very left wing.

I'm what is known in this country as a 'swinging voter'- that means
that I'm not committed to any one party at any particular election and
I'm the sort of voter that is wooed by all in order to secure my vote.
Swinging voters make up about a third of the electorate and it is the
vote of swinging voters whose changing votes results in losses or wins
for those who seek to rule the country. I've voted right, far right
(but a long time ago when even our far right was less right then our
current middle), middle and left. Our current PM and his whole
government is extreme right wing and would get your vote.

But of course politics here is always far more left wing than that of
your country at any point in the past 4 or 5 decades.

On 14/07/2014 10:41 PM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Fran Farmer writes:

Yebbut the 3 US posters other than you who are in this thread would be
considered to be on the extreme rabid right in other first world countries.

The US has long had a bad reputation for exploitation of workers. It
wasn't always so and at one time it had a fine history but not since
WWII at least.

Yep. We haven't had much of a left wing for several decades.

Indeed. Your left wing is what we'd think of as being fairly right wing.

It has reached the point that a non-trivial segment of the population
thinks having public schools equates to repressive socialism.

In addition tourists gripe where tips are expected to be handed over
after any form of service provision. Employers who expect customers to
pay for both goods received and then service provided by their employee
rather than them pay a proper wage are considered to be exploitative.

I forget where, but I read an interesting article a month or three
back on tipping. Turns out that when it started, many US states
considered it so vulgar that there were laws prohibiting it.

LOL. If you ever recall where you read that, could you post a link to
it please? Given your use of the word 'vulgar' did you get the sense
from the article that there was class related objection to tipping?

On 15/07/2014 5:57 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Sunday, July 13, 2014 6:35:36 PM UTC-7, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 13/07/2014 5:21 PM, Todd wrote:

On 07/12/2014 08:07 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:

On 12/07/2014 12:28 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

On Friday, July 11, 2014 4:56:45 PM UTC-7, Frank wrote:





HB never misses an opportunity to throw in his leftist politics.



Now we learn that paying workers a decent wage rather than exploiting

people who have no alternative is "leftist politics".





Yebbut the 3 US posters other than you who are in this thread would be

considered to be on the extreme rabid right in other first world

countries.



Only in your mind.



People with your views sit politically on the far right on the world

stage. You might manage to figure this out if you used your passport

more and/or read more of the world press.



Maybe Higgs' too. Were three are pretty much in

the middle of the conservative (Jeffersonian Liberal) movement.



"Conservative, (Jeffersonian Liberal)" says it all as you would realise

if you had knew what you were writing about or got out more.



You clearly have no idea what the rest of the world reads or sees or

thinks about the politics of US citizens.



You and Higgs and out in left field with the goats. Neither one of

you are capable of the interchange of idea necessary for the

proper health of a representative republic. Both of you just

throw insults. Then accuse other of being intolerant and closed

minded.



Speaking of insults.....



The US has long had a bad reputation for exploitation of workers.



Leftover old war b*** s***.



Your ignorance can't change the history of the Labor movement either in

the US or around the world. Do some reading on it.



It

wasn't always so and at one time it had a fine history but not since

WWII at least. Low wages paid in the US get very bad comments and press

here from tourists and the media. Wal-mart has been one of the

companies mentioned but not the only one.





More leftover old war b*** s***.



What a stupidly illogical comment.



When were you in my country? For how long? How many returning tourists

did you speak to? Which newspapers TV channels and radio stations did

you follow?



In addition tourists gripe where tips are expected to be handed over

after any form of service provision. Employers who expect customers to

pay for both goods received and then service provided by their employee

rather than them pay a proper wage are considered to be exploitative.



We let the market determine what you are pain (in most cases).

This is how freedom and the free market works. If you want elitists

to choose who pays what, then if the best case you get a decaying

European socialist toilet. In the worst case, you get a Nazi/Soviet

style socialist tyranny.



More ignorance on your part. Do some reading on Political Science

before you use terms that you clearly don't understand. 'National

Socialism' is far right. 'Soviet Socialism' is far left.



And before you repeat your ridiculous comment based on the presence of a

word that causes alarm bells to go off in that cranial cavity of yours,

you might wonder why the long form of the name of North Korea is the

'Democratic People's Republic of Korea'.



You are forgetting, in America, even the poor people are fat.

ESPECIALLY the poor people! They can only afford the appalling stuff served in fast-food chains. They are often ignorant of good nutrition and exercise.
Well-intentioned groups/schools/organizations try to bring understanding of those factors to their clients, but the price of good fruits and vegetables and meat/fish is often beyond their means. To wean people away from cheap (and ghastly) TV entertainment and/or computer games and into walking, biking, any form of outdoor exercise is VERY difficult..

So that's why non-poor people are slim and poor people are (often) fat.

'Fat' is a physical condition. 'Exploited' is a political and social

condition. 'You' are ignorant and parochial and rabid and right wing.

Sigh! You're describing, alas, a good chunk of the American electorate (those who bother to vote).*

Yes. Your politics is certainly interesting and to a certain extent,
entertaining as well. Mind you, I frequently want to throw something at
the screen when I see some of your grubbier politicians.

* (BTW, how does compulsory voting work in OZ?)

It's not actually compulsory to vote as such. What IS compulsory is for
everyone over the age of 18 who is not in jail for over 3 years or
insane to have their name and address on the Electoral Roll and to be
given/receive voting papers (at an voting station or by way of the
postal service as a postal voter) and have ones name crossed off the
Electoral Roll as having attended a polling station/returned ballot
papers. Once you get your ballot papers you can vote properly or you
can write all sorts of rude things on them. I always vote properly as
does my husband although we do that as silent electors (only our name
appears on the Electoral Roll - no address)

Being uninformed worked fairly OK when we had two big oceans between us and the rest of the world, and when we were still puffed up with the 1950's post WW II "white picket fence" prosperity. (At the price of many lives)

But that strain of anti-intellectualism that has ALWAYS pervaded the American psyche, since Day One, no longer cuts it in the days of international everything, from finance to food to weapons to travel to commerce to...

That psyche is quite interesting to someone who lives where I do. The
US is so close to the parts of the world where most Australians have
ancestral cultural links so you aren't the least bit isolated in
comparison to us on our big Island continent at the bottom of the world.

I've always found it fascinating to ponder the rates of passport
ownership which is so different in our two countries. Last time I
checked, my country had nearly a 50% passport ownership in comparison to
only about 25% in the US. Given how easily, quickly and cheaply you mob
can get to Europe as opposed to how long it takes us, and how expensive
it is to get there from here, I'm often spent time wondering why is it so.

We are no longer able to elect leaders who think their job is to serve the people, not just make a buck and to hell with the environment. The few who try to run for office on a human being platform are drowned out by the gazillions spent by Our Corporate Masters and their funders.

Oh yes. And dear old Rupert aiding and abetting with his media.

Our tax laws are passed in favor of the .01% by their lackeys in The Best Little Whorehouse in Washington. A few attempts are made to repatriate the ENORMOUS sums sequestered in foreign tax havens, but it's rough going.

Yep.

I used to exhort people to get out there and vote, but am sadly facing the reality that, inter alia, SCOTUS has put the icing on the cake. This country is now for sale to the highest bidder.

What kind of country will my children live in after I'm gone.

I know that thought too.

On 7/15/2014 12:25 AM, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 15/07/2014 2:59 AM, Frank wrote:
On 7/14/2014 11:24 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 7/14/2014 4:53 AM, Frank wrote:
On 7/13/2014 8:11 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 13/07/2014 3:21 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Saturday, July 12, 2014 8:07:28 PM UTC-7, Fran Farmer wrote:



It is very painful to have lived through better times and see one's
beloved country losing its soul.

I know exactly what you mean. You can at least take comfort in
knowing
that at least the residents of your country can manage to elect a
President who seems like a decent human being. Sad tough about all
the
vitriolic comments that are sent his way - no doubt due to him dusky
skin colour and the red colour of the necks of those who make such
comments.

You should see the creep we have heading up our country at the moment,
and none of his hangers on seem to be any better. I never used to
feel
ashamed of my country but increasingly that is how I am feeling.

Yup:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/BNRT0P-oZfw#t=39


Yup????

I believe Fran Farmer is in Australia and commenting about Tony Abbott,
the Prime Minister.


She's still coming from the left.

Only to someone on the US right.

I'm from a very long term middling position. Some issues I am extremely
right wing but generally I hold a middle position and some issues I am
very left wing.

I'm what is known in this country as a 'swinging voter'- that means
that I'm not committed to any one party at any particular election and
I'm the sort of voter that is wooed by all in order to secure my vote.
Swinging voters make up about a third of the electorate and it is the
vote of swinging voters whose changing votes results in losses or wins
for those who seek to rule the country. I've voted right, far right
(but a long time ago when even our far right was less right then our
current middle), middle and left. Our current PM and his whole
government is extreme right wing and would get your vote.

But of course politics here is always far more left wing than that of
your country at any point in the past 4 or 5 decades.

OK.
Got it.
You swing both ways.

In article
Fran Farmer writes:

I've always found it fascinating to ponder the rates of passport
ownership which is so different in our two countries. Last time I
checked, my country had nearly a 50% passport ownership in comparison to
only about 25% in the US. Given how easily, quickly and cheaply you mob
can get to Europe as opposed to how long it takes us, and how expensive
it is to get there from here, I'm often spent time wondering why is it so.

One aspect is lack of need (or perceived need).

While many aspects of the USA are highly homogenized, there really
is a pretty good variety of experience without leaving the country.
And that doesn't require customs, flying across an ocean or several
other hassles. Certainly I know people in the US who are very fond
of Europe, and go whenever there is an opportunity.

I've never been. It has appeal, but while I like experiencing the
variety, I hate being a tourist. That is probably because I grew
up outside Washington DC and saw the constant waves of tourists
getting the standard tours and the pamphlet experience.


--
|Drew Lawson | Mrs. Tweedy! |
| | The chickens are revolting! |