My backyard faces southwest and is quite long. Nothing around for
shade. Consequently, that southwest wall gets BAKED all day by the
sun. It is brick and manages to hold a whole lot of heat. Well into
the evening darkness you can still feel quite a lot of heat radiating
off it if you stand outside by it. I don't want to put in trees.

I'm trying to find a good way to cut down on this heatsink. Being
energy conscious I try to run the air conditioning as little as
possible. At the time the house was built I didn't think of asking to
have extra insulation put in (higher than whatever building code
specifices) but I wish I had. Now i'm looking for alternatives. I
could install one of those backyard house awnings that are easily
retractable but i don't want anything like that. My thoughts were
that if i had a nice layer of leafy vines all over that brick wall,
they'd be an extremely effective sun shield and do the trick.

Some people seem to say that vines are bad and can damage walls.
Others seem to love them. I'm really not sure.

I know that any vine solution will probably take 5 years or more
before they're thick and large enough to be effective but this house
is a long term plan so that doesn't matter. Is this a good idea? And
are there any particular plants i should be looking for? I don't even
know where i would start looking. I assume the nursery where i buy
tomato plants in the spring would be somewhere to look.

House built new in 2002.
Waterloo Ontario (Southern Ontario. Canada. Near Toronto)

Any thoughts appreciated

Kevin

On 11/17/03 4:31 PM, in article ,
"kevins_news" wrote:

My backyard faces southwest and is quite long. Nothing around for
shade. Consequently, that southwest wall gets BAKED all day by the
sun. It is brick and manages to hold a whole lot of heat. Well into
the evening darkness you can still feel quite a lot of heat radiating
off it if you stand outside by it. I don't want to put in trees.

I'm trying to find a good way to cut down on this heatsink. Being
energy conscious I try to run the air conditioning as little as
possible. At the time the house was built I didn't think of asking to
have extra insulation put in (higher than whatever building code
specifices) but I wish I had. Now i'm looking for alternatives. I
could install one of those backyard house awnings that are easily
retractable but i don't want anything like that. My thoughts were
that if i had a nice layer of leafy vines all over that brick wall,
they'd be an extremely effective sun shield and do the trick.

Some people seem to say that vines are bad and can damage walls.
Others seem to love them. I'm really not sure.

I know that any vine solution will probably take 5 years or more
before they're thick and large enough to be effective but this house
is a long term plan so that doesn't matter. Is this a good idea? And
are there any particular plants i should be looking for? I don't even
know where i would start looking. I assume the nursery where i buy
tomato plants in the spring would be somewhere to look.

House built new in 2002.
Waterloo Ontario (Southern Ontario. Canada. Near Toronto)

Any thoughts appreciated

Kevin

Actually, have you considered annual vines? Some like Scarlet Runner Beans
or the ilk? You then get the advantage of the heat sink in the winter!

OR (I have a passive solar house) extend the eaves to shield out the sun on
that side over the summer when the sun is high in the sky.

Cheryl

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:37:45 GMT, Cheryl Isaak
wrote:

On 11/17/03 4:31 PM, in article ,
"kevins_news" wrote:

My backyard faces southwest and is quite long. Nothing around for
shade. Consequently, that southwest wall gets BAKED all day by the
sun. It is brick and manages to hold a whole lot of heat. Well into
the evening darkness you can still feel quite a lot of heat radiating
off it if you stand outside by it. I don't want to put in trees.

I'm trying to find a good way to cut down on this heatsink. Being
energy conscious I try to run the air conditioning as little as
possible. At the time the house was built I didn't think of asking to
have extra insulation put in (higher than whatever building code
specifices) but I wish I had. Now i'm looking for alternatives. I
could install one of those backyard house awnings that are easily
retractable but i don't want anything like that. My thoughts were
that if i had a nice layer of leafy vines all over that brick wall,
they'd be an extremely effective sun shield and do the trick.

Some people seem to say that vines are bad and can damage walls.
Others seem to love them. I'm really not sure.

I know that any vine solution will probably take 5 years or more
before they're thick and large enough to be effective but this house
is a long term plan so that doesn't matter. Is this a good idea? And
are there any particular plants i should be looking for? I don't even
know where i would start looking. I assume the nursery where i buy
tomato plants in the spring would be somewhere to look.

House built new in 2002.
Waterloo Ontario (Southern Ontario. Canada. Near Toronto)

Any thoughts appreciated

Kevin

Actually, have you considered annual vines? Some like Scarlet Runner Beans
or the ilk? You then get the advantage of the heat sink in the winter!

I know nothing about vines/flowers. I just assumed that nothing would
grow tall enough in a single season to be effective so i was just
assuming a permanent type of vine. I grow snow peas in my garden but
they don't get much higher than my 6 foot trellis thing. And the
house is a two stories. Maybe these scarlet runner beans grow fast
enough to be effective? I'm open to any type of suggestion as long as
it might help do what i want.

And if i got a perennial vine, do they keep their leaves in the
winter? I thought they would drop their leaves allowing the brick to
absorb sunlight in the winter. But i admit i really have no idea.

OR (I have a passive solar house) extend the eaves to shield out the sun on
that side over the summer when the sun is high in the sky.

I've only been in the house for one year. Don't want to think about
major rennovations yet :-) If i could go back to when construction
started i'd put in extra insulation, buy a higher efficiency furnace
instead of the default 'builder model', put in a whole house air
exchanger, and not fall down the stairs. But i can't.

Kevin

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:31:58 GMT, kevins_news
wrote:

My backyard faces southwest and is quite long. Nothing around for
shade. Consequently, that southwest wall gets BAKED all day by the
sun. It is brick and manages to hold a whole lot of heat. Well into
the evening darkness you can still feel quite a lot of heat radiating
off it if you stand outside by it. I don't want to put in trees.

I'm trying to find a good way to cut down on this heatsink.

One solution is to construct a free-standing trellis next to the wall
and grow the vines on THAT, because some vines do damage structure.
I believe you will find that such a planting, or ANYTHING which
screens the house itself will have considerable benefit in lowering
the heat load.

Hi Kevin!
Actually, have you considered annual vines? Some like Scarlet Runner Beans
or the ilk? You then get the advantage of the heat sink in the winter!

I know nothing about vines/flowers. I just assumed that nothing would
grow tall enough in a single season to be effective so i was just
assuming a permanent type of vine. I grow snow peas in my garden but
they don't get much higher than my 6 foot trellis thing. And the
house is a two stories. Maybe these scarlet runner beans grow fast
enough to be effective? I'm open to any type of suggestion as long as
it might help do what i want.

Yes they can - do a little research on what grows well near you. I remember
reading in Organic Gardening (way back, when it was still worth reading)
some one using runner beans and lab labs (? Long time ago) to shield a
sunroom that too much summer sun making it unusable.

And if i got a perennial vine, do they keep their leaves in the
winter? I thought they would drop their leaves allowing the brick to
absorb sunlight in the winter. But i admit i really have no idea.

Like I said, do a little research!

OR (I have a passive solar house) extend the eaves to shield out the sun on
that side over the summer when the sun is high in the sky.

I've only been in the house for one year. Don't want to think about
major rennovations yet :-) If i could go back to when construction
started i'd put in extra insulation, buy a higher efficiency furnace
instead of the default 'builder model', put in a whole house air
exchanger, and not fall down the stairs. But i can't.


Been there, done that, have the t-shirt! oh the things I'd do differently!

But - do the research for a good vine that would grow quickly up a simple
trellis - string would work!

Or maybe a pergola along that side for the vines? - are there lots of
windows on that side

Cheryl

I'm doing something like what is suggested below. The roof over my porch is
too high to shade the windows and it gets so hot plants on the porch
actually burn to a crisp!

I bought two welded metal garden art forms (that look like the branches of a
bush) and placed them in front of the porch. On them I planted rambling
roses - Albertine
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...at=17&item=266
They covered the forms and are drooping over beautifully within one season!

On the same side of the house, on the wall without the porch I ran steel
strand in a narrow W pattern from ground level to eaves, and on the strands
I am growing climbing roses - Portlandia
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...t=13&item=490.

Other roses that grow like gangbusters and are very hardy:

Darlow's Enigma
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...at=17&item=171
It is a vigorous grower, blooms all season and the fragrance is superb - a
real bonus.

Paul's Himalyan Musk
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...at=17&item=264
I'm growing this up a tree and in it's first season it grew about 15 ft!

One benefit of using roses, of course, is that you can capture the heat in
winter. If you go the rose route I recommend Heirloom's own-root roses. They
are hard to kill!

Karen


"hermine stover" wrote in message
...

One solution is to construct a free-standing trellis next to the wall
and grow the vines on THAT, because some vines do damage structure.
I believe you will find that such a planting, or ANYTHING which
screens the house itself will have considerable benefit in lowering
the heat load.

I have a wall like that and I grew thunburgia on it this summer. It's in full
flower now and looks beautiful. It grows very rapidly, but doesn't attach
itself. I put in a trellis where I wanted it to grow. Other annual vines which
can be used effectively are hyacinth bean vine, morning glories, Ipomoea alba
(moonvine), cypress vine, Mina lobata.

I wouldn't put a vine which attaches itself to the mortar. That will indeed
cause problems and you won't get the advantage in winter of that warm wall. I
have seeds for hyacinth bean vine is you want. Do a search for the vines I
mentioned and see what you think. Maybe we will have seeds for you.

Victoria


On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:31:58 GMT, kevins_news
opined:

My backyard faces southwest and is quite long. Nothing around for
shade. Consequently, that southwest wall gets BAKED all day by the
sun. It is brick and manages to hold a whole lot of heat. Well into
the evening darkness you can still feel quite a lot of heat radiating
off it if you stand outside by it. I don't want to put in trees.

I'm trying to find a good way to cut down on this heatsink. Being
energy conscious I try to run the air conditioning as little as
possible. At the time the house was built I didn't think of asking to
have extra insulation put in (higher than whatever building code
specifices) but I wish I had. Now i'm looking for alternatives. I
could install one of those backyard house awnings that are easily
retractable but i don't want anything like that. My thoughts were
that if i had a nice layer of leafy vines all over that brick wall,
they'd be an extremely effective sun shield and do the trick.

Some people seem to say that vines are bad and can damage walls.
Others seem to love them. I'm really not sure.

I know that any vine solution will probably take 5 years or more
before they're thick and large enough to be effective but this house
is a long term plan so that doesn't matter. Is this a good idea? And
are there any particular plants i should be looking for? I don't even
know where i would start looking. I assume the nursery where i buy
tomato plants in the spring would be somewhere to look.

House built new in 2002.
Waterloo Ontario (Southern Ontario. Canada. Near Toronto)

Any thoughts appreciated

Kevin

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:43:29 GMT, animaux wrote:

I have a wall like that and I grew thunburgia on it this summer. It's in full
flower now and looks beautiful. It grows very rapidly, but doesn't attach
itself. I put in a trellis where I wanted it to grow. Other annual vines which
can be used effectively are hyacinth bean vine, morning glories, Ipomoea alba
(moonvine), cypress vine, Mina lobata.

I wouldn't put a vine which attaches itself to the mortar. That will indeed
cause problems and you won't get the advantage in winter of that warm wall. I
have seeds for hyacinth bean vine is you want. Do a search for the vines I
mentioned and see what you think. Maybe we will have seeds for you.

Victoria

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Now i have to do some
research. Other than plugging the names of these flowers/vines into a
google search, is there a good way to research them? I guess that or
plunking myself in the gardening section of Chapters and flipping
through gardening books.

Sound like growing something on a trellis against the house will be my
eventual plan. Thanks again.

Kevin





On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:31:58 GMT, kevins_news
opined:

My backyard faces southwest and is quite long. Nothing around for
shade. Consequently, that southwest wall gets BAKED all day by the
sun. It is brick and manages to hold a whole lot of heat. Well into
the evening darkness you can still feel quite a lot of heat radiating
off it if you stand outside by it. I don't want to put in trees.

I'm trying to find a good way to cut down on this heatsink. Being
energy conscious I try to run the air conditioning as little as
possible. At the time the house was built I didn't think of asking to
have extra insulation put in (higher than whatever building code
specifices) but I wish I had. Now i'm looking for alternatives. I
could install one of those backyard house awnings that are easily
retractable but i don't want anything like that. My thoughts were
that if i had a nice layer of leafy vines all over that brick wall,
they'd be an extremely effective sun shield and do the trick.

Some people seem to say that vines are bad and can damage walls.
Others seem to love them. I'm really not sure.

I know that any vine solution will probably take 5 years or more
before they're thick and large enough to be effective but this house
is a long term plan so that doesn't matter. Is this a good idea? And
are there any particular plants i should be looking for? I don't even
know where i would start looking. I assume the nursery where i buy
tomato plants in the spring would be somewhere to look.

House built new in 2002.
Waterloo Ontario (Southern Ontario. Canada. Near Toronto)

Any thoughts appreciated

Kevin

One last question. I know i can look up what climate these roses
prefer. And i know many people who grow small rose bushes around
here. But hopefully someone can speak from experience and tell me if
these climbing roses will survive in my type of climate?

By november we're getting days below freezing. We get snow and it
says during the winter. Down to -20 Centigrade (-4 F) regularly.
March we start going above freezing and it's april/may before we hit
+20 C. During the summer we get stretches of 20 C at night with 35 C
during the day ( 77 F - 95 F).

Kevin

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:06:01 -0800, "AnonnyMoose"
wrote:

I'm doing something like what is suggested below. The roof over my porch is
too high to shade the windows and it gets so hot plants on the porch
actually burn to a crisp!

I bought two welded metal garden art forms (that look like the branches of a
bush) and placed them in front of the porch. On them I planted rambling
roses - Albertine
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...at=17&item=266
They covered the forms and are drooping over beautifully within one season!

On the same side of the house, on the wall without the porch I ran steel
strand in a narrow W pattern from ground level to eaves, and on the strands
I am growing climbing roses - Portlandia
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...t=13&item=490.

Other roses that grow like gangbusters and are very hardy:

Darlow's Enigma
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...at=17&item=171
It is a vigorous grower, blooms all season and the fragrance is superb - a
real bonus.

Paul's Himalyan Musk
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...at=17&item=264
I'm growing this up a tree and in it's first season it grew about 15 ft!

One benefit of using roses, of course, is that you can capture the heat in
winter. If you go the rose route I recommend Heirloom's own-root roses. They
are hard to kill!

Karen


"hermine stover" wrote in message
.. .

One solution is to construct a free-standing trellis next to the wall
and grow the vines on THAT, because some vines do damage structure.
I believe you will find that such a planting, or ANYTHING which
screens the house itself will have considerable benefit in lowering
the heat load.

kevins_news wrote in message . ..
One last question. I know i can look up what climate these roses
prefer. And i know many people who grow small rose bushes around
here. But hopefully someone can speak from experience and tell me if
these climbing roses will survive in my type of climate?

By november we're getting days below freezing. We get snow and it
says during the winter. Down to -20 Centigrade (-4 F) regularly.
March we start going above freezing and it's april/may before we hit
+20 C. During the summer we get stretches of 20 C at night with 35 C
during the day ( 77 F - 95 F).

Kevin


You have better choices than roses. I would recommend hardy kiwis.
They will cover your trellis in no time, they are a pretty plant, and
you will get fruits in 5-6 years (which are better tasting than
regular kiwis). They also have a high foliage-to-branches ratio, so
the wall will be fairly uncovered in the winter. Make a sturdy trellis
as they are very prolific once mature. They are easy to manage during
the growth phase as these vines are very pliable. Once they cover
everything, you will have to prune or they will cover EVERYTHING.

The Heirloom catalog lists zones for their roses. They also have a group of
roses particularly hardy that they recommend for cold areas (the Extra
Winter Hardy Roses). What's your location? Do you know the zone?

Zone map he http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/ushzmap.html?

And you will find several articles about growing roses in cold winter
locations (Montana, Minnesota and Iowa) with recommendations he
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...searticles.htm

This is the link to their hardy climbing roses.
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...age=cat&cat=31

It looks like they don't include zone info for each rose in the online
catalog, but the print catalog is more complete. You can always send them an
email if you have questions. I've found them very helpful

Karen





"kevins_news" wrote in message
...
One last question. I know i can look up what climate these roses
prefer. And i know many people who grow small rose bushes around
here. But hopefully someone can speak from experience and tell me if
these climbing roses will survive in my type of climate?

By november we're getting days below freezing. We get snow and it
says during the winter. Down to -20 Centigrade (-4 F) regularly.
March we start going above freezing and it's april/may before we hit
+20 C. During the summer we get stretches of 20 C at night with 35 C
during the day ( 77 F - 95 F).

Kevin

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:06:01 -0800, "AnonnyMoose"
wrote:

I'm doing something like what is suggested below. The roof over my porch
is
too high to shade the windows and it gets so hot plants on the porch
actually burn to a crisp!

I bought two welded metal garden art forms (that look like the branches
of a
bush) and placed them in front of the porch. On them I planted rambling
roses - Albertine
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...at=17&item=266
They covered the forms and are drooping over beautifully within one
season!

On the same side of the house, on the wall without the porch I ran steel
strand in a narrow W pattern from ground level to eaves, and on the
strands
I am growing climbing roses - Portlandia

http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...t=13&item=490.

Other roses that grow like gangbusters and are very hardy:

Darlow's Enigma
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...at=17&item=171
It is a vigorous grower, blooms all season and the fragrance is superb -
a
real bonus.

Paul's Himalyan Musk
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...at=17&item=264
I'm growing this up a tree and in it's first season it grew about 15 ft!

One benefit of using roses, of course, is that you can capture the heat
in
winter. If you go the rose route I recommend Heirloom's own-root roses.
They
are hard to kill!

Karen


"hermine stover" wrote in message
.. .

One solution is to construct a free-standing trellis next to the wall
and grow the vines on THAT, because some vines do damage structure.
I believe you will find that such a planting, or ANYTHING which
screens the house itself will have considerable benefit in lowering
the heat load.

"simy1" wrote in message
om...
kevins_news wrote in message
. ..
One last question. I know i can look up what climate these roses
prefer. And i know many people who grow small rose bushes around
here. But hopefully someone can speak from experience and tell me if
these climbing roses will survive in my type of climate?

By november we're getting days below freezing. We get snow and it
says during the winter. Down to -20 Centigrade (-4 F) regularly.
March we start going above freezing and it's april/may before we hit
+20 C. During the summer we get stretches of 20 C at night with 35 C
during the day ( 77 F - 95 F).

Kevin


You have better choices than roses. I would recommend hardy kiwis.
They will cover your trellis in no time, they are a pretty plant, and
you will get fruits in 5-6 years (which are better tasting than
regular kiwis). They also have a high foliage-to-branches ratio, so
the wall will be fairly uncovered in the winter. Make a sturdy trellis
as they are very prolific once mature. They are easy to manage during
the growth phase as these vines are very pliable. Once they cover
everything, you will have to prune or they will cover EVERYTHING.

5-6 years? I was wondering what were wrong with mine. Maybe they are just
not mature enough to fruit. I have both boys and girls and they are
profific growers but they have not even produced a blossom. This summer was
the fourth year. Can they be propagated from cuttings?

Near toronto ontario canada. Judging by that map i seem to be on the
4b 5a transition.

i'll do some research. i have all winter to think about this.

Thanks

Kevin

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:21:50 -0800, "AnonnyMoose"
wrote:

The Heirloom catalog lists zones for their roses. They also have a group of
roses particularly hardy that they recommend for cold areas (the Extra
Winter Hardy Roses). What's your location? Do you know the zone?

Zone map he http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/ushzmap.html?

And you will find several articles about growing roses in cold winter
locations (Montana, Minnesota and Iowa) with recommendations he
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...searticles.htm

This is the link to their hardy climbing roses.
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...age=cat&cat=31

It looks like they don't include zone info for each rose in the online
catalog, but the print catalog is more complete. You can always send them an
email if you have questions. I've found them very helpful

Karen





"kevins_news" wrote in message
.. .
One last question. I know i can look up what climate these roses
prefer. And i know many people who grow small rose bushes around
here. But hopefully someone can speak from experience and tell me if
these climbing roses will survive in my type of climate?

By november we're getting days below freezing. We get snow and it
says during the winter. Down to -20 Centigrade (-4 F) regularly.
March we start going above freezing and it's april/may before we hit
+20 C. During the summer we get stretches of 20 C at night with 35 C
during the day ( 77 F - 95 F).

Kevin

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:06:01 -0800, "AnonnyMoose"
wrote:

I'm doing something like what is suggested below. The roof over my porch
is
too high to shade the windows and it gets so hot plants on the porch
actually burn to a crisp!

I bought two welded metal garden art forms (that look like the branches
of a
bush) and placed them in front of the porch. On them I planted rambling
roses - Albertine
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...at=17&item=266
They covered the forms and are drooping over beautifully within one
season!

On the same side of the house, on the wall without the porch I ran steel
strand in a narrow W pattern from ground level to eaves, and on the
strands
I am growing climbing roses - Portlandia

http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...t=13&item=490.

Other roses that grow like gangbusters and are very hardy:

Darlow's Enigma
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...at=17&item=171
It is a vigorous grower, blooms all season and the fragrance is superb -
a
real bonus.

Paul's Himalyan Musk
http://www.heirloomroses.com/express...at=17&item=264
I'm growing this up a tree and in it's first season it grew about 15 ft!

One benefit of using roses, of course, is that you can capture the heat
in
winter. If you go the rose route I recommend Heirloom's own-root roses.
They
are hard to kill!

Karen


"hermine stover" wrote in message
.. .

One solution is to construct a free-standing trellis next to the wall
and grow the vines on THAT, because some vines do damage structure.
I believe you will find that such a planting, or ANYTHING which
screens the house itself will have considerable benefit in lowering
the heat load.

On 18 Nov 2003 10:10:21 -0800, (simy1) wrote:

kevins_news wrote in message . ..
One last question. I know i can look up what climate these roses
prefer. And i know many people who grow small rose bushes around
here. But hopefully someone can speak from experience and tell me if
these climbing roses will survive in my type of climate?

By november we're getting days below freezing. We get snow and it
says during the winter. Down to -20 Centigrade (-4 F) regularly.
March we start going above freezing and it's april/may before we hit
+20 C. During the summer we get stretches of 20 C at night with 35 C
during the day ( 77 F - 95 F).

Kevin


You have better choices than roses. I would recommend hardy kiwis.
They will cover your trellis in no time, they are a pretty plant, and
you will get fruits in 5-6 years (which are better tasting than
regular kiwis). They also have a high foliage-to-branches ratio, so
the wall will be fairly uncovered in the winter. Make a sturdy trellis
as they are very prolific once mature. They are easy to manage during
the growth phase as these vines are very pliable. Once they cover
everything, you will have to prune or they will cover EVERYTHING.

something that fruits would be great. But i think i'm on the 4b 5a
transition for my zone. i'll have to see if these things would
survive.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm going to be researching this all
winter.

Kevin

"Paul E. Lehmann" wrote in message ...

5-6 years? I was wondering what were wrong with mine. Maybe they are just
not mature enough to fruit. I have both boys and girls and they are
profific growers but they have not even produced a blossom. This summer was
the fourth year. Can they be propagated from cuttings?

Mine took 6years. Yes, they are easily propagated from cuttings - I
have done it myself.