wrote:
However there are
other routes they could take. In the case of something that has real
value (like a pair of unused shoes) they could easily start donating
these items to the local church.

Often the things that have real salvage value are also things that the
retailer gets credit from the distributor. To get that credit, they have
to ensure the distributor that they have destroyed the items in
question. Donating them to charity means they don't get credit from the
distributor.

Even when that's not the case, it's not usually feasible to keep a list
of which things need to be destroyed, and which don't need to be
destroyed. And even if you do, you're right back to the point where
people are throwing things out just so they can be salvaged.

Another issue that hasn't been brought up is if the retail store has a
customer-friendly, no questions asked policy on returns, they run the
risk of people dumpster diving, and returning the same items over and
over again.

Yes. There is a lot of waste out there. But the things we're talking
about aren't because the retailers are uncaring people who want to waste
the resources of the world. The things we're talking about happen
because there are too many dishonest people in the world looking for
ways to screw the retailers -- especially the big retailers. They
justify it by saying, "who cares if I keep dumpster diving behind the
Home Depot, and keep returning the same merchandise over and over again.
They're a big company."

Figure out a way to eliminate dishonesty, and then retailers can stop
these practices that appear to be wasteful. Shrinkage isn't a small
problem. It's one thing to give away waste, like Starbuck's coffee
grounds, or the barber's piles of hair. It's quite a different story
when you start talking about merchandise that's no longer saleable.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Spend your Amazon gift certificates he
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/associateshop.html

I had a totally differnt experience at a New Orleans nursery...the one on
Airline drive. I was heading for the cash reg. with half a dozen pansies when
I saw a cart full of depotted, HUGE clumps of what I thought could be
agapanthus or clivia. But there also were some working tools, etc. with them
so I wasn't sure if the plants were just being relocated or dumped. I asked
the store manager and she said dumped, so take all you want! Several of the
plants are now basking in my back yard, but they may have been so traumatized
they won't bloom and solve the mystery for a year or so.
zemedelec

I had a totally differnt experience at a New Orleans nursery...the one on
Airline drive. I was heading for the cash reg. with half a dozen pansies when
I saw a cart full of depotted, HUGE clumps of what I thought could be
agapanthus or clivia. But there also were some working tools, etc. with them
so I wasn't sure if the plants were just being relocated or dumped. I asked
the store manager and she said dumped, so take all you want! Several of the
plants are now basking in my back yard, but they may have been so traumatized
they won't bloom and solve the mystery for a year or so.
zemedelec

Zemedelec wrote:
I had a totally differnt experience at a New Orleans nursery...the one
on
Airline drive. I was heading for the cash reg. with half a dozen
pansies when
I saw a cart full of depotted, HUGE clumps of what I thought could be
agapanthus or clivia. But there also were some working tools, etc.
with them
so I wasn't sure if the plants were just being relocated or dumped. I
asked
the store manager and she said dumped, so take all you want! Several
of the
plants are now basking in my back yard, but they may have been so
traumatized
they won't bloom and solve the mystery for a year or so.


It's not uncommon to find a situation like that at a small retail store.
When the owner shows up often, the manager answers directly to the
owner, and the business is small enough that the owner knows the drones
by name, and even knows a little about their personal life, you'll find
a higher level of trust afforded to said drones. Human nature is that in
a situation like that there is more trust between the owner and the
drones, and it's less likely that the drones will rip-off the owner.

On the other hand, at least once a month there is a story in the
newspaper about some trusted drone who ripped-off the owner of a small
business. And those are just local stories, and involve big enough
rip-offs that they're newsworthy. While it may be less likely that a
drone at a small retail store will rip-off the owner as compared to what
happens at a large, faceless company like Home Depot, it does happen.
And it's so much easier to do it at a small business because they don't
take safeguards like destroying unsaleable merchandise, locking
dumpsters, or aiming a security camera at the dumpster. (And often if
they do aim a camera on the dumpster, the thieving employee also has
access to the tape!)

That said, while I don't bother to dumpster-dive, when I'm in a store
that has a place where merchandise stops for one last super-discounted
try at selling it, I always check it over for things that I could use,
and really are still usable. I've found that the bigger the store, the
more likely I'll find things that probably could have been left on the
shelf, while at a smaller store I'm more likely to get something that's
still on the shelf marked-down for being imperfect. And I'm not just
talking nurseries here. Retail is retail.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Spend your Amazon gift certificates he
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/associateshop.html

Zemedelec wrote:
I had a totally differnt experience at a New Orleans nursery...the one
on
Airline drive. I was heading for the cash reg. with half a dozen
pansies when
I saw a cart full of depotted, HUGE clumps of what I thought could be
agapanthus or clivia. But there also were some working tools, etc.
with them
so I wasn't sure if the plants were just being relocated or dumped. I
asked
the store manager and she said dumped, so take all you want! Several
of the
plants are now basking in my back yard, but they may have been so
traumatized
they won't bloom and solve the mystery for a year or so.


It's not uncommon to find a situation like that at a small retail store.
When the owner shows up often, the manager answers directly to the
owner, and the business is small enough that the owner knows the drones
by name, and even knows a little about their personal life, you'll find
a higher level of trust afforded to said drones. Human nature is that in
a situation like that there is more trust between the owner and the
drones, and it's less likely that the drones will rip-off the owner.

On the other hand, at least once a month there is a story in the
newspaper about some trusted drone who ripped-off the owner of a small
business. And those are just local stories, and involve big enough
rip-offs that they're newsworthy. While it may be less likely that a
drone at a small retail store will rip-off the owner as compared to what
happens at a large, faceless company like Home Depot, it does happen.
And it's so much easier to do it at a small business because they don't
take safeguards like destroying unsaleable merchandise, locking
dumpsters, or aiming a security camera at the dumpster. (And often if
they do aim a camera on the dumpster, the thieving employee also has
access to the tape!)

That said, while I don't bother to dumpster-dive, when I'm in a store
that has a place where merchandise stops for one last super-discounted
try at selling it, I always check it over for things that I could use,
and really are still usable. I've found that the bigger the store, the
more likely I'll find things that probably could have been left on the
shelf, while at a smaller store I'm more likely to get something that's
still on the shelf marked-down for being imperfect. And I'm not just
talking nurseries here. Retail is retail.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Spend your Amazon gift certificates he
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/associateshop.html

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:30:39 GMT, "Warren"
wrote:
Yes. There is a lot of waste out there. But the things we're talking
about aren't because the retailers are uncaring people who want to waste
the resources of the world. The things we're talking about happen
because there are too many dishonest people in the world looking for
ways to screw the retailers -- especially the big retailers.
Some good points made in this thread, but a few other points go a bit
far in defending the big retailers. I don't think the retailers "want
to waste the resources of the world," but I do think they don't give
such things as value, morality or ethics a moments thought. They'd
toss their toxic wastes into the nearest creek if they thought they'd
get away with it.

Swyck

Xref: kermit rec.gardens:270303

wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:30:39 GMT, "Warren"
wrote:
Yes. There is a lot of waste out there. But the things we're talking
about aren't because the retailers are uncaring people who want to
waste
the resources of the world. The things we're talking about happen
because there are too many dishonest people in the world looking for
ways to screw the retailers -- especially the big retailers.
Some good points made in this thread, but a few other points go a bit
far in defending the big retailers. I don't think the retailers "want
to waste the resources of the world," but I do think they don't give
such things as value, morality or ethics a moments thought. They'd
toss their toxic wastes into the nearest creek if they thought they'd
get away with it.


Well, the retail divisions of the large oil companies were the first
ones to replace their underground tanks to comply with new laws last
decade. It was the ma and pa independent gas stations that didn't
upgrade, and continued to pollute until the day they had to close
because they didn't comply.

A small retailer has only a few people to guide what's right and wrong.
If those few people don't give a rat's butt, the store will do what it
pleases whether it's moral, ethical, or anything that resembles good. A
large retailer has far more eyes watching, and more people who'll blow a
whistle. You may find a couple of stores in a chain with a rogue manager
who'll get away with things that normally only a small, privately held
ma and pa store can do, but eventually they'll be discovered.

Small retail operations and large retail operations each have their own
problems. Both kinds of operations have good and bad people. The larger
the operation, the more the good and the bad balance out to mediocrity.
The smaller the operation, the more extremely good or bad it'll be.
Contrary to what's politically correct to say today, the small
businessman is not always some virtuous member of the community, and
some large companies actually do care about the communities their
customers come from.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Spend your Amazon gift certificates he
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/associateshop.html

wrote:

I don't think the retailers "want
to waste the resources of the world," but I do think they don't give
such things as value, morality or ethics a moments thought.

Retailers are business people dealing in commodities. The plants they
sell are grown just for them whether they be trees or petunias. If they
destroy them, I just means that they have expanded the horticulture
business by paying for excess production. Since plants are a renewable
resource, the only thing wasted is the container materials and energy.
Throwing away a dented can of veggies or fruit is more of a waste of
resources than throwing away plants.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

Morality and ethics do not help companies make money. If they did then the
Big Boys (Lowes, HD, etc.,) wouldn't even be in existence -- they would have
realized that they were going to drive mom & pop garden centers, small
lumber companies, etc. out of business.

It's all about squashing the little guy.

wrote in message
...
.
Some good points made in this thread, but a few other points go a bit
far in defending the big retailers. I don't think the retailers "want
to waste the resources of the world," but I do think they don't give
such things as value, morality or ethics a moments thought. They'd
toss their toxic wastes into the nearest creek if they thought they'd
get away with it.

Swyck

Morality and ethics do not help companies make money. If they did then the
Big Boys (Lowes, HD, etc.,) wouldn't even be in existence -- they would have
realized that they were going to drive mom & pop garden centers, small
lumber companies, etc. out of business.

It's all about squashing the little guy.

wrote in message
...
.
Some good points made in this thread, but a few other points go a bit
far in defending the big retailers. I don't think the retailers "want
to waste the resources of the world," but I do think they don't give
such things as value, morality or ethics a moments thought. They'd
toss their toxic wastes into the nearest creek if they thought they'd
get away with it.

Swyck

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:03:00 GMT, Stephen M. Henning wrote:

wrote:

I don't think the retailers "want
to waste the resources of the world," but I do think they don't give
such things as value, morality or ethics a moments thought.

Retailers are business people dealing in commodities. The plants they
sell are grown just for them whether they be trees or petunias. If they
destroy them, I just means that they have expanded the horticulture
business by paying for excess production. Since plants are a renewable
resource, the only thing wasted is the container materials and energy.
Throwing away a dented can of veggies or fruit is more of a waste of
resources than throwing away plants.

What do you mean by energy?

What about peat and the other elements in the potting soil? Peat is not always
harvested renewably. What about the petrochemicals consumed to produce the
plants' fertilizer? And what about the run-off? How about the smog produced
to truck these plants from grower to warehouse to store only to have them
thrown away? Just a few of the costs not factored into the $2.99 retail
price...

--
John GOTTS http://linuxsavvy.com/staff/jgotts

On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:45:33 GMT, Warren wrote:

It's not uncommon to find a situation like that at a small retail store.
When the owner shows up often, the manager answers directly to the
owner, and the business is small enough that the owner knows the drones
by name, and even knows a little about their personal life, you'll find
a higher level of trust afforded to said drones. Human nature is that in
a situation like that there is more trust between the owner and the
drones, and it's less likely that the drones will rip-off the owner.

On the other hand, at least once a month there is a story in the
newspaper about some trusted drone who ripped-off the owner of a small
business. And those are just local stories, and involve big enough
rip-offs that they're newsworthy. While it may be less likely that a
drone at a small retail store will rip-off the owner as compared to what
happens at a large, faceless company like Home Depot, it does happen.
And it's so much easier to do it at a small business because they don't
take safeguards like destroying unsaleable merchandise, locking
dumpsters, or aiming a security camera at the dumpster. (And often if
they do aim a camera on the dumpster, the thieving employee also has
access to the tape!)

While I've never worked in retail, I can see where the temptation lies. In
order to keep prices down, lower level employees are paid below the poverty
line. I'm surprised that people making $5.00 an hour don't steal more often.

--
John GOTTS http://linuxsavvy.com/staff/jgotts

John Gotts wrote:

What about peat and the other elements in the potting soil? Peat is
not always
harvested renewably. What about the petrochemicals consumed to
produce the
plants' fertilizer? And what about the run-off? How about the smog
produced
to truck these plants from grower to warehouse to store only to have
them
thrown away? Just a few of the costs not factored into the $2.99
retail
price...



Retail stores don't consider all costs when they developed their pricing
models? Highly doubtful.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Spend your Amazon gift certificates he
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/associateshop.html

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:24:58 GMT, "Warren"
wrote:

Retail stores don't consider all costs when they developed their pricing
models? Highly doubtful.

--
Warren H.
If by consider, you mean consider, sure, probably.
If you were to say they minimze those costs, I'd say they only
minimize those costs that come directly from their pockets. Loss of
resources, increased pollution, etc., are OPP, except in the rare
instances where it is so egregious the EPA actually addresses it.
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www.isa-arbor.com/home.asp.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www.treesaregood.com/

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:24:58 GMT, "Warren"
wrote:

Retail stores don't consider all costs when they developed their pricing
models? Highly doubtful.


They consider all of "their" costs. Or at least the costs they incur
in the short term.

They likely don't consider any costs that don't get passed along to
them, which is what I think the poster was referring to. I could be
wrong, though.