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#16
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
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#17
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Judy wrote in message ...
David Hill wrote: "...........I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive racist name for the plants ..........." Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...with the names you use at times???? Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes How'd they get that name? - theoneflasehaddock |
#18
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
I think this says it all..........
During the 1990's a former UK officer serving with the Bermuda constabulary for a number of years was accused of calling a black officer a 'kaffer'. The allegation was treated seriously and instead of dealing with the issue by way of discipline, the officer found himself summonsed to appear at Magistrate's court in Hamilton, Bermuda for an offence of 'insulting words and / or behaviour'. One questions whether the UK officer could have been treated fairly; the matter was investigated and considered by the prosecution service. No one, when handling what was a career destroying allegation against the former UK officer, could find in his favour, the matter progressed to Court. What could the prosecution team do, call the black officer a liar? As is the way in Court proceedings, the prosecution put their case at the Magistrates Court. The evidence against the officer was the word of the person he allegedly called 'kaffer'; a fellow serving officer. The evidence was given and apart from refute the allegation and stress that the words were never uttered, what could the officer, or his defence counsel, do? Before the black officer, making the allegation, was released (allowed to leave the witness box) the Judge put a question to him: "officer, what do you understand the term 'kaffir' to mean" The reply from the black officer: "I don't know what it means" Case dismissed. If you do not know what something means then they cannot cause you offence, the offence is not complete -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
#19
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
David Hill wrote:
...Before the black officer, making the allegation, was released (allowed to leave the witness box) the Judge put a question to him: "officer, what do you understand the term 'kaffir' to mean" The reply from the black officer: "I don't know what it means" Case dismissed. If you do not know what something means then they cannot cause you offence, the offence is not complete The solution is so obvious. We should *educate* people about all the words in common usage that they should be offended by. The more arcane the word is, the better -- that way we get to show off how educated and clever (and therefore superior) we are. Best regards, Bob |
#20
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
"......."Kaffir" as a derogatory term, was seeded over half the world by
British Colonials and the British Army. There are still enough white Brits using it that way to ensure that all black Brits are well aware of the insult. Janet. To help you avoid being offensive due to ignorance; the term kaffir equates to "******", not "black". Janet ........" Thank you so much Janet for pointing out the error of my ways, though as far as I know no one grows either kaffir berries or ****** berries.....just Black berries. Just a pity that your views are so bigoted and seem to relate to a different country to the one I live in....... I was at a training course once on the subject of political correctness where the lecturer was Female, in a wheelchair and with both a hearing and a sight loss.......she insisted that all people who were not Caucasian should be referred to as "Black" which she seemed to think wouldn't offend Asians or Chinese and Japanese..... Her attitude was "That is what I say , and that is what it is.......I am the expert." It is just as easy to be offensive in the way that you say something as it is by what you say. David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
#21
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
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#22
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
David Hill wrote:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/xft/ Who are you replying to with that? -- -------------- Peace, Delta Nine Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier. -Buddha I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine. - T.D. Shadow |
#23
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 18:36:57 +0100, Janet Baraclough.. wrote:
The message from "David Hill" contains these words: Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". To help you avoid being offensive due to ignorance; the term kaffir equates to "******", not "black". Yeah, but it relates to "******" in SOUTH AFRICA. A third world country just about as far away on the planet as any place can be from the US. I would understand offense IN THE UNITED STATES if someone IN THE UNITIED STATES called a plant a "****** Lily". I wouldn't use the term myself. But I do not CARE if the word is offensive in some distant country in some way that is not meaningful in my own country. I don't CARE if the word "kaffir" is a slur against ethnic Bantus in South Africa, because I'm never going to go to South Africa and am most likely never going to meet a Bantu. The thing is, many, many, many words used in one language or country has a different meaning if you go to in a different language or country. Take for instance (since you are in the UK) the word "fanny". It means "butt" in the US, and "pussy" over there. What about "shag"? Means a dance over here, and "****" over there. And that barely even touches the surface of the problem. I, personally, neither have the time or the interest to make sure that every word that I use is NOT, in some language and in some country, offensive to some individual or group. |
#24
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800, (theoneflasehaddock) wrote:
Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes How'd they get that name? I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of these unrelated groups, but I'll post this article I found anyway: http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991 Opinion Racist Relics: An Ugly Blight On Our Botanical Nomenclature By Melvin Hunter Date: November 25, 1991 Racism is a disease afflicting every level of society. The symptoms are as obvious as a cross burning or as subtle as a schoolteacher's subconsciously lowered expectations. Its presence casts an ugly shadow across society--unfortunately, even into our flower gardens and the language that scientists use to describe their inhabitants. Sad to say, a number of racially offensive common plant names long ago slipped into the vernacular of gardening, and some have found their way into horticulture's most important reference books. Sadder still is the fact that several of these offensive names are still in common use. And most amazing has been the reluctance of the horticultural establishment to confront the issue and remedy it with appropriate revision of the offending nomenclature. A prime example is the term ******head--painfully offensive, yet in use throughout the world as a common plant name. In Australia, Edward Rotherham informs us in his book Flowers and Plants of New South Wales and Southern Queensland (Wellington, A.H. and A.W. Reed, 1982), ******head is the common name for Enneapogon nigricans, a stiff, black-green grass of the shrublands of New South Wales. According to John Salmon, the author of New Zealand Flowers and Plants (Wellington, A.H. and A.W. Reed, 1963), ******head reportedly is used as the common name for Carex secta, a swamp grass that rises out of the water to form a mound. And Nicholas Polunim writes in Arctic to Eastern Siberia: Circumpolar Arctic Flora (London, Oxford University Press, 1959) that ******head is used in the Arctic to refer to Eriophorum vaginatur. The names ******'s-hand cactus and ******finger cactus have been given by Margaret Martin and her coauthors in the popular Cacti and Their Cultivation (New York, Charles Scribner's Sons, 1971) for Opuntia clavarioides, a small cactus with bizarre, slender, cylindrical branches. Alfred Graf, author of the widely used botanical guidebook Exotica (East Rutherford, N.J., Roehrs Co. Inc., 1980), gives ******-wool as a common name for the New Zealand Wire Vine (Muehlenbeckia complexa), apparently in reference to the basket plant's twining, wire-like purplish brown stems. Occasionally one can still hear Brazil nuts (Bertholletia excelsa) referred to as ******-toes. Meanwhile, horticulturist P.A. Munz's California Flora and California Desert Wildflowers (University of California Press, Berkeley, 1970) lists ******head cactus as the accepted common name for Echinocactus polycephalus, a small barrel cactus native to California's southern deserts. Zambia floridana, a beautiful dwarf native American cycad, has been called a Coontie, a reference to the tree's long, slender, green leaves. And in Australia, grass trees (Xanthorrhoe minor) are sometimes referred to as Blackboys, apparently because their palm-like trunks, often burned black by grass fires, remind some of Australian aborigines. A religious or an ethnic reference in a compound vernacular name is bound to connote or imply the existence of an inferior or socially unusual quality. Thus, common names such as Pope's Nose (Proboscides jussieui), Jew Bush (Pedilanthus tithymaloides), and Jew's Mallow (Kerria japonic) have derogatory religious and ethnic origins. Jew's Beard (Tacca chantrieri) is a reference to the tropical plant's whisker-like inflorescence, which to some botanists seems to bear a resemblance to the beards of Orthodox Jews. Other, more appropriate common names for this plant include the Bat-flower and Cat's whiskers (with all due respect, of course, to bats and cats). The name Coolie's Cap, which makes reference to the pill box-like hats worn by 19th-century Chinese immigrants, is still sometimes used as the common name for Holmskioldia sanguina. In his book Common Names of South African Plants (Pretoria, Department of Agriculture Technical Services, 1966), Christo Smith points out the unfortunate frequency of use in compound vernacular names of the term Hottentot (as in Hottentot's Head for Strangeria eriopus). Smith writes: "Kaffir is not infrequently used in a derogatory sense to indicate some alleged inferiority..." He then goes on to list 75 common South African plant names that use the term. In an article in the Cactus and Succulent Journal (51[5]:238-41, 1979), author Bruce Hargreaves wrote about Talinum caffrum, a succulent from Africa's Kalahari Desert, noting, "I apologize for using a racist term;~ `caffer,' or `kaffir,' a term derived from the Arabic for unbeliever, is the South African equivalent of `******'--but I didn't name this plant." Hargreaves's dilemma stemmed from caffrum's being the scientific rather than popular botanical name; that is, in his scientific writings he had no choice other than to use it. However, we certainly do have a choice in our use of plant names. How many subtropical gardeners in the United States realize the racially derogatory implications of referring to Kaffir-lilies (Clivia minata or Schizostylis coccinea), Kaffirboom Coral Trees (Erythina caffra), or Kaffir plums (Harpephyllum caffra)? The origin of some derogatory or racist names that remain in the common botanical vernacular without malicious intent--or so one prefers to think--are so obscure that they are used by people who would never dream of using such obviously offensive common names like ******finger cactus or Coolie's Cap. The widespread use of Digger pine for Pinus sabiniana is a good example. The tree grows on dry, rocky slopes, below 4,500 feet, on hills bordering California's Central Valley and interior coastal ranges. Sunset Books' widely used New Western Garden Book (Menlo Park, Calif., 1980) designates this tree as a "marker plant"--a plant delineating an important Western climatic gardening zone. (Sunset's Zone 7, "California's Digger Pine Belt," is a several-thousand-square-mile area with hot summers and mild, but pronounced winters.) When the gold-seeking Forty-Niners poured into California during the last century, they had little respect for the native people they encountered. Secure in their belief of racial and religious superiority, they mockingly called the Native Americans of the area "diggers" when they saw them foraging for roots and bulbs. Pinus sabiniana's common name originated when the prospectors noted the tree's value to California Indians. Understandably, many Native Americans find the term digger offensive. A spokesman, who requests anonymity, for the California State Native American Heritage Commission says, "The word `digger' is very derogatory and insulting to California Indian people." A historical interpreter, who also requests anonymity, for the California State Indian Museum in Sacramento agrees: "To call a California Indian a `digger' means you are either ignorant or you are purposely trying to insult him. It is a very derisive word." These observers concur in the opinion that the term digger is as offensive to California's Native Americans as the term ****** is to African Americans. Of course, terms like ******head and Digger pine should have been purged from botanical literature long ago. However, botanical books and magazines containing these offensive common plant names are currently widely available. Surprisingly, there is a great reticence among botanical scientists to challenge the existence of these racist relics in the garden. Before The Scientist agreed to publish this article, the idea had been rejected by a half-dozen regional and national horticultural and garden magazines. The editor of one scholarly West Coast journal, which represents a number of influential horticulture societies, rejected the idea by responding, "I feel it would stress the sociological implications at the expense of the botanical. Into an article [on plants] the origin and implication of the vernacular name might fit with a sentence or two." A prominent California horticultural society also shied away from a discussion of racially derogatory common plant names. The editor of the society's journal commented: "The subject is inappropriate and appears to create a quarrel where there isn't one at present . . . your charge of racism is a little dramatic, I feel." On the bright side, some editors have taken an active role in eliminating racially offensive cololoquial names for plants. James C. Hickman, editor of The Jepson Manual--a botanical reference work soon to be published by the University of California Press--reports that, in the manual, "Echinocactus will be called `clustered barrel cactus,' a simply descriptive name. Pinus sabiniana will be called `gray pine' or `foothill pine.' " However, Hickman notes, "Because it is so widely and innocently known as `digger pine,' we included a note asking people not to use that name because of its pejorative origin. I think this is better than not mentioning the issue at all." Hickman adds, "The other name I know of that will not be used is `wandering Jew,' for Tradescantia fluminensis; it will be called spiderwort--which is possibly derogatory toward arachnids." Additionally, Hickman notes, "The dilemma, of course, is that truly colloquial or truly common names cannot be controlled, but are a matter of usage. I believe our challenge as authors and editors is a long-term one of swaying usage toward less offense without leaving innocents high and dry." Those who continue to use racially offensive plant names should be challenged. Elizabeth Knoll, sponsoring editor for science and the history of science at the University of California Press, says, "I will make it a point of telling the authors and the advisory board members--if they don't have the sense to realize it already--that racist and derogatory terms are unacceptable." However, she expresses her concern that "the very nomenclature of some sciences carry racial prejudices. My guess is that other scholars could point out more examples--a depressing and important undertaking." The problem of purging racist common names from gardening's vernacular is relatively simple compared to the much more complex problem of expunging racially based scientific names, such as Erythina caffra, Harpephyllum caffra, and Talinum caffrum. The issue of derogatory proper botanical names is more troublesome. If scientists persist in using them, and insist on their being published verbatim, writers and editors of botanical journals should, at a minimum, footnote their own objections when clarity or expedience dictates the use of a proper plant name that has been derived from a racially offensive term. The use of a racial epithet as an accepted, published botanical common name perpetuates and legitimizes bigotry, even if it does so unintentionally. Botanical editors, botanists, and gardeners should know common names such as Kaffir-lily, Digger pine, and ******head cactus are racial slurs, and they must play a forceful role in eliminating their use. To do less would leave the appearance of condoning bigotry in botany. The enlightened efforts of Knoll, Hickman, and others like them are laudable. Without their efforts, young African American or Native American scholars, perhaps just developing an interest in botany, will understandably be discouraged and disillusioned to find racist terms in botanical literature. One can only imagine the damage that already has been done in this regard. Melvin Hunter is an Atascadero, Calif.-based science writer specializing in botanical subjects. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991 © Copyright 1991, The Scientist, Inc. All rights reserved. We welcome your opinion. If you would like to comment on this article, please write us at News | Opinions & Letters | Research | Hot Papers | LabConsumer | Profession About The Scientist | Jobs | Classified | Web Registration | Print Subscriptions | Advertiser Information |
#25
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
paghat wrote:
So anyone who wishes to clean the word "Kaffir Lily" out of their personal vocabulary because, hey, this is the world wide web, & it really is like hanging out at least partly in South Africa -- then for that choice I say "Ahu!", hooray!, how polite you are. But if someone just thinks it's a vulgar word in every context & nobody should use it anywhere ever who isn't a racist, then to them I also say "Ahu!", stupid! -paghat the ratgirl Words are nothing but letters or sounds put together, depending on whether you're writing or speaking. In and of themselves, those letters or sounds are not offensive alone or together. Context makes them offensive. There is the context of the writer or speaker, and the context of the reader or listener involved here. Some people are so offended when they read or hear particular words that they can't or won't consider the context of the writer or speaker. My personal opinion is that our problems, in order of severity and importantance a 1. Writers/speakers who intend their words to be offensive in context, 2. Readers/listeners who are so offended by particular words that they don't consider the writer/speaker's context, 3. Readers/listeners who misinterpret the writer/speaker's context, 4. Writers/speakers who don't take reasonable care to see that their context is not easily misinterpreted to be offensive, 5. Writers/speakers and readers/listeners who aren't even aware that they words could be offensive in certain contexts. Unfortunately too many people focus on the least severe and important situation. That means either the more severe and important issues have been resolved (ha!), or they have nothing better to do than raise hell. (Or perhaps they're not equipped to handle the more important issues, and draw attention away from their inabilities by making such a big deal over the less important issues.) But it all still comes down to context. Words are just letters or sounds. Context gives those words meaning. It is only once they have meaning that they can be offensive. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Blatant Plug: Spend your Amazon gift certificates he http://www.holzemville.com/mall/associateshop.html |
#27
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Xref: kermit rec.gardens:270484 soc.men:912126 alt.religion.wicca:725937 alt.drugs.pot:384370 alt.law-enforcement:682378
Ah yes, but it is the uneducated great unwashed that are the ones that are quickly offended because they believe everyone is making fun of them anyway and they will quickly riot if they believe they are being insulted. They are the type of people who will drag Americans through the streets without a second thought. All through history it has been the great unwashed that have repeatedly toppled great civilizations and set mankind back thousands of years by doing so. "Delta Nine" wrote in message ... Darren Garrison wrote: On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800, (theoneflasehaddock) wrote: Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit". Short people are "Vertically challenged" People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able." And it goes on and on The funny part is, most people who are part of the PC-protected groups have no interest in their PC names. Most black people I know want to be called black, not "African American" as that implies that they're not American born. Most deaf people I know are deaf, not hearing impared (hearing impaired implies difficulty hearing, not total lack of hearing ie deafness) The African American one brings to mind the white South African born kid who got in trouble for applying for some sort of "outstanding African American student" award because he wasn't black. Even though he had better claim to the title "African American" than any American born black kid. I mean, shit, he was ****ing *born in Africa* Political correctness was just as much of an attack on free speech as the people who believe that saying bad things about Bush is tantamount to treason. More so, actually, it's been building up for a longer time and has had much more sway than the recent war on terror trend. Remember the financial advisor in DC who had to resign for using the word "niggardly" just because it sounds similar to "******" Nevermind the fact that niggardly shares no origins with ******, and has a perfectly acceptable use given the context. It means "stingy" or "miserly" and is completely acceptable to use when talking about finances. See, that's what political correctness is about: It doesn't matter if you're right or not, it only matters if people are offended. Well guess what? There's nothing in our laws that imply you have a right not to be offended. In fact, with freedom of speech you're pretty much guaranteed to be offended at some point in your life. People just need to get a thicker skin about it, and not try to coerce others into not offending them. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: People are stupid. And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes How'd they get that name? I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of these unrelated groups, but I'll post this article I found anyway: http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991 snip -- -------------- Peace, Delta Nine Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier. -Buddha I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine. - T.D. Shadow |
#28
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 16:49:33 -0400, Darren Garrison
wrote: I, personally, neither have the time or the interest to make sure that every word that I use is NOT, in some language and in some country, offensive to some individual or group. Interesting. To busy for common courtesy or respect. Any word perceived as a hate word should be eliminated from common usage. Such as, ******, Kaffir or Kafir (I used to think there was a difference). How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? Has our educational system slipped so far that the graduates from elementary school are unable to express themselves without the use of such words? I know it is the parents responsibility to stop such hatred. Unfortunately it isn't happening. zhan |
#29
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Cereus-validus wrote:
Ah yes, but it is the uneducated great unwashed that are the ones that are quickly offended because they believe everyone is making fun of them anyway and they will quickly riot if they believe they are being insulted. They are the type of people who will drag Americans through the streets without a second thought. All through history it has been the great unwashed that have repeatedly toppled great civilizations and set mankind back thousands of years by doing so. I don't really think it's that so much as people who are professionally offended. As in, people who act like they're offended because it gives them power over others. They're usually shameless demagogues. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, I'm looking in your direction. -- -------------- Peace, Delta Nine Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier. -Buddha I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine. - T.D. Shadow |
#30
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Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
Interesting. To busy for common courtesy or respect. Any word
perceived as a hate word should be eliminated from common usage. Such as, ******, Kaffir or Kafir (I used to think there was a difference). How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? Has our educational system slipped so far that the graduates from elementary school are unable to express themselves without the use of such words? I saw a queer thing this morning. A frog was sitting on a dike. I asked him, "How come you are sitting on your ass lookin' like Mick Jagger?" He told me that a big rock fell out of the sky and hit the water right in front of him it made a sound like "wop" and threw him up on the dike. Then along came a possum and a coon and he was so scared he decided to spend the day until all the big animals went away. Words are just words until someone let's them get under their skin. Use 'em right or use 'em wrong, but they're just words. |
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