I feel your pain. Thanks to Diazinon my grub problem went away several
years ago. If it returns I still have 2 qt containers that'll last me
for a LONG time. I've used Garden Techs Sevin for ant control in my
garden walkways to no avail. Mixed as prescribed, nada, doubled it,
still won't kill the ants. Thats it on that product for me. Either the
bugs are mutating or the products are getting worsesigh.

Grandpa

germ wrote:

I moved this year and the new house had a poor lawn. I have much
improved it but I am having grub problems. I have tried 3 of the
products now in the stores: season lawn control, triacide?, and sevin.
None have worked, peel up a patch of sod and I still see live grubs
each time!

Diazanon worked without fail in the past but is now unavailable. Any
suggestions for something that really works. (Other than a 55 gal
drum of Malathion concentrate applied directly. That is what the guy
at the local home center jokenly reccommended.)

Jim

Actually, a single armadillo can rid your lawn of grubs in less than a week.

I purchased liquid diazinon a couple of months ago at either Lowes or Home
Depot. When did it get banished?


"GrampysGurl" wrote in message
...
Or maybe you just need to turn some moles loose in your yard.

Best regards,
Bob

That or letting your lawn grow a little longer closer to 4 inches and the
starlings would like to come in and help out a little.
Colleen
Zone 5 CT

I got a recommendation from a professional applicator. On a timing
basis it is too late to control this year with nematodes and/or milky
spore and many commercial chemicals. The only thing he could offer is
to use a pyrethrum/permethrin as a knock down insecticide, and combine
it with imidacloprid for a lasting hit. In other words use two things
together that mimic diazinon's quick knockdown and 30 day half life.

I could start a regimen of inoculating the soil with milky spore to
get protection for the future.

Jim


I feel your pain. Thanks to Diazinon my grub problem went away
several
years ago. If it returns I still have 2 qt containers that'll last
me
for a LONG time. I've used Garden Techs Sevin for ant control in my
garden walkways to no avail. Mixed as prescribed, nada, doubled it,
still won't kill the ants. Thats it on that product for me. Either
the
bugs are mutating or the products are getting worsesigh.

Grandpa

germ wrote:

I moved this year and the new house had a poor lawn. I have much
improved it but I am having grub problems. I have tried 3 of the
products now in the stores: season lawn control, triacide?, and sevin.
None have worked, peel up a patch of sod and I still see live grubs
each time!

Diazanon worked without fail in the past but is now unavailable. Any
suggestions for something that really works. (Other than a 55 gal
drum of Malathion concentrate applied directly. That is what the guy
at the local home center jokenly reccommended.)

Jim

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 08:29:14 -0500, zxcvbob opined:

escapee wrote:

Do you think they outlawed it because of it's greatness? It is a neurotoxin and
can kill you, cause cancer, and a whole host of other neuro diseases. How silly
people are.


I think they outlawed it because stupid people were spraying it on golf
courses (against the label directions) and killing people, or
broadcasting it by the hundreds of pounds on their lawns whether they
had grubs or not and contaminating the ground water. I don't think they
banned it because I use it once or twice every July to spray my apple
tree to prevent apple maggots because malathion isn't strong enough. (it
is listed for this.)

Bob

I don't care what you "think." I care that diazinon was marketed in about 40
different trade names, sold in different type bottles, by different companies
and what's more stunning is that you use it anywhere, let alone on something you
will eat.

Do as you will. I find your glib answer alarming and if this remotely
represents how people in the world feel about neurotoxins, organophosphate's and
the like, it's frightening.


Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

On 26 Jun 2004 08:07:47 -0700, (germ) opined:

I did not ask this question to start a war. Pesticides have their
place. I prefer to use as few as possible. I spot treat for weeds
with a hand sprayer, cut the grass long, and only use organic
fertilizers on the lawn. The problem is my lawn is in very poor
condition. (I got it in this condition.) I guess I agree that I have
a marginal grub problem, but the lawn was already open and patchy and
it is getting worse as the grubs concentrate on the once healthier
areas. I am actually kind of peeved that I have had to use three
different poisons on my lawn and still with no results.

So maybe you need a fourth. Try using beneficial nematodes. I guarantee if you
water properly, stop using pesticides, and use certified organic fertilizer with
a nice top dress ONCE with about a fourth inch of compost you will get rid of
the problem. If you recently used pesticides, all three of them, nematodes will
most likely be killed.

Oh, you didn't start a war. You got very thoughtful information from several
people, both synthetic and organic remedies.

All that 'escapee' wrote is true, but as a pesticide it NEEDS to have
those properties. Just like a gun would not be a gun if it did not
kill. As for why Diazinon was banned. Newer research found that it
might be a special hazard to children. Under new EPA regs, to keep it
on the market manufacturers would have had to do new expensive tox
studies. The margins were just not there for the product. So they and
the EPA signed consent decree to phase out residential uses.

The fight to remove it from the market went on for a really long time. There
are superior remedies which have been outlined here. You tried using synthetic
pesticides by your own admission and have not had success. You used three
types. Doesn't that tell you something? You are literally killing everything
useful in the soil. If you had the biota which a healthy soil has, this problem
would not exist.

Quoting the EPA: "EPA is conducting a review of diazinon as
part of its effort to address the tough, new
safety standards established by the 1996 Food
Quality Protection Act...
This action adds a greater measure of
protection for children by eliminating the most
important sources of children's exposure."

Yeah, so doesn't that bother you? All some of us are saying is that you are
killing your soil, and your turf is not recovering because of it. There is a
wonderful book called Secrets to Great Soil. It's one of the best books on
soil, particularly for people who don't want to read lengthy blather which makes
no sense. Maybe your library has it.

Victoria

escapee wrote:

Do you think they outlawed it because of it's greatness? It is a neurotoxin and
can kill you, cause cancer, and a whole host of other neuro diseases. How silly
people are.


I think they outlawed it because stupid people were spraying it on
golf
courses (against the label directions) and killing people, or
broadcasting it by the hundreds of pounds on their lawns whether they
had grubs or not and contaminating the ground water. I don't think
they
banned it because I use it once or twice every July to spray my apple
tree to prevent apple maggots because malathion isn't strong enough.
(it
is listed for this.)

Bob



Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

You only need use milky spore once for a 20 year management of grubs. It works.
Make sure you see if there is a date on the bag. I do believe it is dated, but I
could be wrong. You will have much better success using the techniques listed
in prior posts.

Victoria


On 26 Jun 2004 15:32:56 -0700, (germ) opined:

I got a recommendation from a professional applicator. On a timing
basis it is too late to control this year with nematodes and/or milky
spore and many commercial chemicals. The only thing he could offer is
to use a pyrethrum/permethrin as a knock down insecticide, and combine
it with imidacloprid for a lasting hit. In other words use two things
together that mimic diazinon's quick knockdown and 30 day half life.

I could start a regimen of inoculating the soil with milky spore to
get protection for the future.

Jim


I feel your pain. Thanks to Diazinon my grub problem went away
several
years ago. If it returns I still have 2 qt containers that'll last
me
for a LONG time. I've used Garden Techs Sevin for ant control in my
garden walkways to no avail. Mixed as prescribed, nada, doubled it,
still won't kill the ants. Thats it on that product for me. Either
the
bugs are mutating or the products are getting worsesigh.

Grandpa

germ wrote:

I moved this year and the new house had a poor lawn. I have much
improved it but I am having grub problems. I have tried 3 of the
products now in the stores: season lawn control, triacide?, and sevin.
None have worked, peel up a patch of sod and I still see live grubs
each time!

Diazanon worked without fail in the past but is now unavailable. Any
suggestions for something that really works. (Other than a 55 gal
drum of Malathion concentrate applied directly. That is what the guy
at the local home center jokenly reccommended.)

Jim



Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

escapee wrote:

I don't care what you "think." I care that diazinon was marketed in about 40
different trade names, sold in different type bottles, by different companies
and what's more stunning is that you use it anywhere, let alone on something you
will eat.

Do as you will. I find your glib answer alarming and if this remotely
represents how people in the world feel about neurotoxins, organophosphate's and
the like, it's frightening.



I'm glad I didn't mention my stash of 74% chlordane (I'm saving it, just
in case I ever have to deal with termites)

Bob

Minnesota Statutes 2003, Table of Chapters

Table of contents for Chapter 18B


18B.115 Sale or use of chlordane or heptachlor.

The state, a state agency, a political subdivision of the
state, a person, or other legal entity may not sell, use, or
apply the pesticide chlordane or its derivative heptachlor
within the state.

HIST: 1989 c 326 art 5 s 28

Copyright 2003 by the Office of Revisor of Statutes, State of
Minnesota.



Consider yourself reported Mr Bxxon, Olmsted County has vigorous
inforcement......





On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 21:19:39 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:



I'm glad I didn't mention my stash of 74% chlordane (I'm saving it, just
in case I ever have to deal with termites)

Bob

tomjasz wrote:

Minnesota Statutes 2003, Table of Chapters

Table of contents for Chapter 18B


18B.115 Sale or use of chlordane or heptachlor.

The state, a state agency, a political subdivision of the
state, a person, or other legal entity may not sell, use, or
apply the pesticide chlordane or its derivative heptachlor
within the state.

HIST: 1989 c 326 art 5 s 28

Copyright 2003 by the Office of Revisor of Statutes, State of
Minnesota.



Consider yourself reported Mr Bxxon, Olmsted County has vigorous
inforcement......


GFY. It doesn't say anything about possession of chlordane.

Minnesota doesn't have a subterranean termite problem worthy of
chlordane use, but I don't intend to live here after I retire.

regards,
bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
tomjasz wrote:

Minnesota Statutes 2003, Table of Chapters

Table of contents for Chapter 18B


18B.115 Sale or use of chlordane or heptachlor.

The state, a state agency, a political subdivision of the
state, a person, or other legal entity may not sell, use, or
apply the pesticide chlordane or its derivative heptachlor
within the state.

HIST: 1989 c 326 art 5 s 28

Copyright 2003 by the Office of Revisor of Statutes, State of
Minnesota.



Consider yourself reported Mr Bxxon, Olmsted County has vigorous
inforcement......


GFY. It doesn't say anything about possession of chlordane.

Minnesota doesn't have a subterranean termite problem worthy of
chlordane use, but I don't intend to live here after I retire.

Nothing about possession you say? Goodness, you're right. Not quite busted
yet then. ;-)

Jim

On 6/25/04 4:21 PM, in article
, "germ"
wrote:

I moved this year and the new house had a poor lawn. I have much
improved it but I am having grub problems. I have tried 3 of the
products now in the stores: season lawn control, triacide?, and sevin.
None have worked, peel up a patch of sod and I still see live grubs
each time!

Diazanon worked without fail in the past but is now unavailable. Any
suggestions for something that really works. (Other than a 55 gal
drum of Malathion concentrate applied directly. That is what the guy
at the local home center jokenly reccommended.)

Jim
Hi Jim
I have read all the posts to date and found them interesting. I have an
experience with lawn larvae-leather jackets we call them here in BC, Canada.
The ads on TV and radio told us that we had to use this that and the
other thing to get rid of these nasty grubs or they will kill our lawns. So
I thought I should try them...(damn, I got sucked in again)!
But, I had some resistance to the use of pesticides so thought I will do
my own experiment. I sprayed only half of my lawn.
Almost instantly, I saw some results...birds! They were eating the grubs
that were affected by the application of that pesticide. I ran out and tried
to chase them away but when I returned to the house, back they would come.
I can only imagine the affect this pesticide would have on their young.
There was no difference between the sprayed lawn and the unsprayed
lawn!!!!!! I have never used that baby bird killer product since!
I have no idea what the problem is with your lawn. How many more
pesticides are there that you could use? Maybe you should try dynamite. It
probably won't solve the problem either but maybe the noise will make you
happy.
And as far as the 'harmful' larvae, well, give the birds a chance...
Trusting Nature is not like trusting your local politician...Nature does not
lie.
Gary
Fort Langley, BC
Canada

gary davis wrote:

-snip-
I have read all the posts to date and found them interesting. I have an
experience with lawn larvae-leather jackets we call them here in BC, Canada.
The ads on TV and radio told us that we had to use this that and the
other thing to get rid of these nasty grubs or they will kill our lawns. So
I thought I should try them...(damn, I got sucked in again)!
But, I had some resistance to the use of pesticides so thought I will do
my own experiment. I sprayed only half of my lawn.
Almost instantly, I saw some results...birds! They were eating the grubs
that were affected by the application of that pesticide. I ran out and tried
to chase them away but when I returned to the house, back they would come.
I can only imagine the affect this pesticide would have on their young.
-snip-

What was the product you were using? Your description gives
me an idea for an organic way to rid your lawn of grubs. [which might
actually be what you applied]

Spray your lawn with a product that makes the soil uncomfortable for
the grubs. [tabasco? something that makes it hard for them to
breathe? . . .. ] When they come to the surface to escape, the
birds get them. The trick would be in finding the product that is
noxious to the grubs but the birds like to taste.

Jim

On 25 Jun 2004 16:21:09 -0700, (germ) wrote:

I moved this year and the new house had a poor lawn. I have much
improved it but I am having grub problems. I have tried 3 of the
products now in the stores: season lawn control, triacide?, and sevin.
None have worked, peel up a patch of sod and I still see live grubs
each time!


The Bayer product that contains imidacloprid works well. Can use it
anytime during the growing season when other products (diazinon,
sevin, whatever-thrin) are best used at key times to be effective.
Should be able to find it at the Home Depot/Lowes type stores. But
also, the large grubs you are seeing now are not doing the damage to
your lawn..they are coming up to pupate to turn in to the beetle that
is seen flying about at night. No matter what you use there is a good
chance of seeing live ones this time of year that don't seem to be
effected.

Lar. (to e-mail, get rid of the BUGS!!


It is said that the early bird gets the worm,
but it is the second mouse that gets the cheese.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 12:37:45 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

It doesn't say anything about possession of chlordane.


Interesting that you're concerned about ironite but willing to live
with chlordane. That's weird!
Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

Tom Jaszewski wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 12:37:45 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:


It doesn't say anything about possession of chlordane.



Interesting that you're concerned about ironite but willing to live
with chlordane. That's weird!


Thanks for noticing. I'm a complex character. g

There's a variety of reasons; some of them good and some probably rather
dubious. I knew what I was buying when I got the chlordane -- a
persistant insecticide that kills termites. AFAIK, there are still no
good alternatives on the market. So my chlordane sits in its brown
bottle as a kind of insurance that I hope I never need to use.

The ironite was sold as an iron- and trace element-rich fertilizer and
general plant tonic. No mention that it was mine tailings from a toxic
waste dump. No mention of the high levels of lead and arsenic (or
mercury, I don't recall which.)

The chlordane eventually breaks down, although it takes many years. The
heavy metals contaminants in the ironite don't break down, they just
become more readily available as the ironite itself breaks down.

Best regards,
Bob


Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold