Three years ago, my neighbors were storing a canoe up against the chain link
fence that separates our backyards. It was an eyesore. My opinion is that I
have no right complaining to my neighbors about what they do on their own
property, so I took a pro-active approach instead. I planted some Silver
Lace vines on the chain link fence. This worked very well, and by the end of
summer it hid the canoe, and it looked really nice.

The following year, they got rid of the canoe and planted a flower garden in
its place. Even though I no longer needed the vines, they looked so
beautiful that I kept them.

Now, three years later, they are a magnificent backdrop to the rest of my
flower garden. It's a backdrop to their flower garden too, and they didn't
even have to pay for it.

During teh Christmas holidays, I invited these neighbors over for a holiday
drink, and James said "Michelle, you're going to have to do something about
those vines." When I asked him what he meant, he said that the vines were
growing into their yard and are strangling their plants.

I told him that it's a vine, and all vines need trimming occasionally. I
told him I trim my side of the vine every two or three weeks in the summer,
and it only takes about five minutes each time. I said that's a small price
to pay for having such a beautiful plant that is covering what was an ugly
chain link fence.

He told me that he and his wife shouldn't have to trim it at all, because it
was my vine. He said if I were willing to trim it on their side of the fence
from now on, they wouldn't have a problem with it, but if I don't do this,
I'd have to "do something about my vines". He of course means I should kill
the plants to make him happy.

I changed the topic and wasn't the same for the rest of the evening. I was
insulted that they would come into my home, drink my wine, and use it as an
opportunity to criticize me. Plus, it's winter! Why is he bringing that up
in the middle of winter?

I have already decided that I will trim the vines on their side of the
fence. But now I'm wondering who is right, and who is wrong, in this
situation? Am I right to think my neighbors are cranky? Does the law
obligate me to trim vines that enter my neighbors yard? Should they accept
the minor chore of vine trimming in return for having such a beautiful
backdrop (their words) to their garden?

TIA!
Michelle

Michelle C wrote:
Three years ago, my neighbors were storing a canoe up against the chain link
fence that separates our backyards. It was an eyesore. My opinion is that I
have no right complaining to my neighbors about what they do on their own
property, so I took a pro-active approach instead. I planted some Silver
Lace vines on the chain link fence. This worked very well, and by the end of
summer it hid the canoe, and it looked really nice.

The following year, they got rid of the canoe and planted a flower garden in
its place. Even though I no longer needed the vines, they looked so
beautiful that I kept them.

Now, three years later, they are a magnificent backdrop to the rest of my
flower garden. It's a backdrop to their flower garden too, and they didn't
even have to pay for it.

During teh Christmas holidays, I invited these neighbors over for a holiday
drink, and James said "Michelle, you're going to have to do something about
those vines." When I asked him what he meant, he said that the vines were
growing into their yard and are strangling their plants.

I told him that it's a vine, and all vines need trimming occasionally. I
told him I trim my side of the vine every two or three weeks in the summer,
and it only takes about five minutes each time. I said that's a small price
to pay for having such a beautiful plant that is covering what was an ugly
chain link fence.

He told me that he and his wife shouldn't have to trim it at all, because it
was my vine. He said if I were willing to trim it on their side of the fence
from now on, they wouldn't have a problem with it, but if I don't do this,
I'd have to "do something about my vines". He of course means I should kill
the plants to make him happy.

I changed the topic and wasn't the same for the rest of the evening. I was
insulted that they would come into my home, drink my wine, and use it as an
opportunity to criticize me. Plus, it's winter! Why is he bringing that up
in the middle of winter?

I have already decided that I will trim the vines on their side of the
fence. But now I'm wondering who is right, and who is wrong, in this
situation? Am I right to think my neighbors are cranky? Does the law
obligate me to trim vines that enter my neighbors yard? Should they accept
the minor chore of vine trimming in return for having such a beautiful
backdrop (their words) to their garden?

TIA!
Michelle




Your neighbor is an ass, and you can't possibly win this.

If you trim the vines on their side, they will complain you didn't do it
good enough or you stepped on some of their plants or something. They
will also expect you to keep them trimmed, and to do a better job next time.

If you do nothing, they will probably spray the vines on their side with
weed killer in an attempt to destroy them on both sides of the fence.

Best regards,
Bob

Since it only takes 5 minutes, just walk over there and trim it. If you
think they're really picky, ask one of them to come out and tell you if it's
done the way they like it. Of all the neighbor problems you could have, this
is like a .25 on a scale of 0 through 10. Don't make it worse. As far as
them "drinking your wine", you invited them, right? They probably figured it
would be good to broach the subject when everyone was loosened up a bit.

Shall I tell you about my neighbor, who thought it was OK to let their
ChemLawn moron hose down my vegetable garden with pesticides, and how I was
prepared to get an injunction from our town justice, which would've directed
the cops to arrest the neighbor if the spraying actually took place? That's
an 8 on the scale. A convicted child molester moving in next door - that's a
10.

In article , "Michelle C"
wrote:

Three years ago, my neighbors were storing a canoe up against the chain link
fence that separates our backyards. It was an eyesore. My opinion is that I
have no right complaining to my neighbors about what they do on their own
property, so I took a pro-active approach instead. I planted some Silver
Lace vines on the chain link fence. This worked very well, and by the end of
summer it hid the canoe, and it looked really nice.

The following year, they got rid of the canoe and planted a flower garden in
its place. Even though I no longer needed the vines, they looked so
beautiful that I kept them.

Now, three years later, they are a magnificent backdrop to the rest of my
flower garden. It's a backdrop to their flower garden too, and they didn't
even have to pay for it.

During teh Christmas holidays, I invited these neighbors over for a holiday
drink, and James said "Michelle, you're going to have to do something about
those vines." When I asked him what he meant, he said that the vines were
growing into their yard and are strangling their plants.

I told him that it's a vine, and all vines need trimming occasionally. I
told him I trim my side of the vine every two or three weeks in the summer,
and it only takes about five minutes each time. I said that's a small price
to pay for having such a beautiful plant that is covering what was an ugly
chain link fence.

He told me that he and his wife shouldn't have to trim it at all, because it
was my vine. He said if I were willing to trim it on their side of the fence
from now on, they wouldn't have a problem with it, but if I don't do this,
I'd have to "do something about my vines". He of course means I should kill
the plants to make him happy.

I changed the topic and wasn't the same for the rest of the evening. I was
insulted that they would come into my home, drink my wine, and use it as an
opportunity to criticize me. Plus, it's winter! Why is he bringing that up
in the middle of winter?

I have already decided that I will trim the vines on their side of the
fence. But now I'm wondering who is right, and who is wrong, in this
situation? Am I right to think my neighbors are cranky? Does the law
obligate me to trim vines that enter my neighbors yard? Should they accept
the minor chore of vine trimming in return for having such a beautiful
backdrop (their words) to their garden?

I wouldn't risk trespassing on the property of people loony enough to
prefer a stark ugly chainlink fenced to vines. I think what you need is a
pleasant natural wooden fence of your own. six feet tall, against which
you can grow five kinds of vines if you like, PLUS you will never again
have to look at that ugly-ass chainlink fence or anything they lean up
against it in the future. You also need much better judgement about who
you invite into your house.

As for "law" -- ordinances vary from place to place but in general a fence
is not supposed to be placed right on a property line UNLESS both property
owners cooperate & agree to place the fence right on the property line.
Whoever puts up a fence inside their property line is legally required to
maintain the fence. A fence is usually a foot or so inside their property
line, & the owners of the fence have access to both sides. If nobody ever
signed a Fence Compliance Form showing mutual agreement to be directly on
a property line, it has to be inside the fence owner's property. If the
fence is right on the property line without mutual agreement, you can
force them move it to conform to the local ordinance, with fun
neighbor-wars resulting.

Many ordinances require a fence to be set back "a reasonable distance"
which is defined as enough space to allow the fence owner to access both
sides of the fence for its maintenance. If their fence meets this legal
requirement, they can even come on your side of the fence & remove
anything attached to it, or paint it, or whatever they decidce to do to
it. If it is placed right on the property line with mutually signed Fence
Compliance Form signed by all parties, then you are responsible both for
the mainteance of your side of the fence & for keeping anything from
afflicting their side of the fence.

In any case, what grows through a fence or over a fence to the other side
they can legally remove. But where a chainlink is involved, where really
does a vine tresspass to the other side? If one side of the fence wants to
see vines, and the other side of the fence does not want them, there's no
possibility of mutually satisfactory use, which is just one more reason
why a fence that ugly-ass should never be used to separate properties.
Which underscores your need for a privacy-providing & vastly more
attractive natural wood fence of your own, placed according to ordinance
requirements if they will not enter into a mutual agreement to have a more
aesthetic fence placed directly on the property line.

They don't sound like reasonable people but the law is almost certainly on
their side. If they ARE reasonable you might be able to convince them to
permit you to replace a fence that does not allow for mutually agreeable
use (you cannot grow vines on it when there is no way to keep them on your
side), & at your expense put up an aesthetic fence that does not allow
such free penetration of plant life. Your side cna be rich & green, theirs
they can paint purple polka dot if they like. Or just put it inside your
property & you maintain both sides of the fence.

Most regulations require a fence to be no higher than six feet (some city
or county ordinances allow 8 feet) in a back yard or along an alley; no
higher than three feet at the front of a house (sometimes four feet); no
closer than a foot from sidewalks, interfering with no easements, blocking
no street-corner visibility from vehicles, with a minimum of one
four-foot-wide access gate in case of fire or other emergency. Sometimes a
fence building permit is needed, that costs very little with the building
department, but some areas require a permit only for fences that one wants
exceptions to not conform to an ordinance (for instance a seven or eight
foot fence might need a permit for the variance, but a six foot or smaller
that adheres to all requirements would not require a permit).

Placement of a fence also requires that the rights of adjacent property
owners are not allowed to be hindered; if the present fence is directly
on the property line, it could be argued that your right to grow vines on
a fence has definitely been hindered by their right to not have vines on
their side of the fence, forcing the issue of either replacing it witha
fence that protects both sides' rights equally, or requiring them to move
the fence away from the property line so that they alone maintain both
sides of it & which provides you room to have your own fence with access
to both sides.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

"Michelle C" wrote in message
...
Three years ago, my neighbors were storing a canoe up against the chain
link
fence that separates our backyards. It was an eyesore. My opinion is that
I
have no right complaining to my neighbors about what they do on their own
property, so I took a pro-active approach instead. I planted some Silver
Lace vines on the chain link fence. This worked very well, and by the end
of
summer it hid the canoe, and it looked really nice.

The following year, they got rid of the canoe and planted a flower garden
in
its place. Even though I no longer needed the vines, they looked so
beautiful that I kept them.

Now, three years later, they are a magnificent backdrop to the rest of my
flower garden. It's a backdrop to their flower garden too, and they didn't
even have to pay for it.

During teh Christmas holidays, I invited these neighbors over for a
holiday
drink, and James said "Michelle, you're going to have to do something
about
those vines." When I asked him what he meant, he said that the vines were
growing into their yard and are strangling their plants.

I told him that it's a vine, and all vines need trimming occasionally. I
told him I trim my side of the vine every two or three weeks in the
summer,
and it only takes about five minutes each time. I said that's a small
price
to pay for having such a beautiful plant that is covering what was an ugly
chain link fence.

He told me that he and his wife shouldn't have to trim it at all, because
it
was my vine. He said if I were willing to trim it on their side of the
fence
from now on, they wouldn't have a problem with it, but if I don't do this,
I'd have to "do something about my vines". He of course means I should
kill
the plants to make him happy.

I changed the topic and wasn't the same for the rest of the evening. I was
insulted that they would come into my home, drink my wine, and use it as
an
opportunity to criticize me. Plus, it's winter! Why is he bringing that up
in the middle of winter?

I have already decided that I will trim the vines on their side of the
fence. But now I'm wondering who is right, and who is wrong, in this
situation? Am I right to think my neighbors are cranky? Does the law
obligate me to trim vines that enter my neighbors yard? Should they accept
the minor chore of vine trimming in return for having such a beautiful
backdrop (their words) to their garden?

TIA!
Michelle



Perhaps you could move your vine, or take cuttings, to another spot away
from them, and plant some less invasive climber like a clematis?

Thanks for your reply, Bob.

I intend to trim the vine as short as possible on their side, so as to
require less trimming, and less bitching from them. It will also deprive
them of the beauty of the plant.

If they still complain, I'll remove it and put up a privacy fence.

- Michelle

PS These same neighbors complain that my oak trees drop leaves into their
yard each fall. I don't think they are reasonable people.




Your neighbor is an ass, and you can't possibly win this.

If you trim the vines on their side, they will complain you didn't do it
good enough or you stepped on some of their plants or something. They
will also expect you to keep them trimmed, and to do a better job next
time.

If you do nothing, they will probably spray the vines on their side with
weed killer in an attempt to destroy them on both sides of the fence.

Best regards,
Bob

Hi Doug,

These same neighbors have complained about my oaks and elms dropping leaves
into their yard each fall, and of shading their pool too much during the
summer. Personally, I think they are a pain in the ass, but I want to hear
what others think.

You're right though... at the end of the day, this 'problem' is only a minor
irritation.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Since it only takes 5 minutes, just walk over there and trim it. If you
think they're really picky, ask one of them to come out and tell you if
it's done the way they like it. Of all the neighbor problems you could
have, this is like a .25 on a scale of 0 through 10. Don't make it worse.
As far as them "drinking your wine", you invited them, right? They
probably figured it would be good to broach the subject when everyone was
loosened up a bit.

Shall I tell you about my neighbor, who thought it was OK to let their
ChemLawn moron hose down my vegetable garden with pesticides, and how I
was prepared to get an injunction from our town justice, which would've
directed the cops to arrest the neighbor if the spraying actually took
place? That's an 8 on the scale. A convicted child molester moving in next
door - that's a 10.

WOW! You must be a lawyer! Thanks for your reply, paghat!

You're right... I'll probably end up getting a privacy fence. But if I do,
I'll pay for the entire thing myself. They aren't the most co-operative of
neighbors.

"Michelle C" wrote in message
...
WOW! You must be a lawyer! Thanks for your reply, paghat!

You're right... I'll probably end up getting a privacy fence. But if I do,
I'll pay for the entire thing myself. They aren't the most co-operative of
neighbors.


Some vines still find their way through every crack in those fences.

Michelle:
Sounds like if there's rain with a little wind coming from your direction,
they'll say it's YOUR rain overwatering their yard. These people need a
condo, not a house. Are they the kinds of ******s who case 3 leaves around
the yard with a leaf blower for 8 hours straight?


"Michelle C" wrote in message
...
Hi Doug,

These same neighbors have complained about my oaks and elms dropping
leaves into their yard each fall, and of shading their pool too much
during the summer. Personally, I think they are a pain in the ass, but I
want to hear what others think.

You're right though... at the end of the day, this 'problem' is only a
minor irritation.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Since it only takes 5 minutes, just walk over there and trim it. If you
think they're really picky, ask one of them to come out and tell you if
it's done the way they like it. Of all the neighbor problems you could
have, this is like a .25 on a scale of 0 through 10. Don't make it worse.
As far as them "drinking your wine", you invited them, right? They
probably figured it would be good to broach the subject when everyone was
loosened up a bit.

Shall I tell you about my neighbor, who thought it was OK to let their
ChemLawn moron hose down my vegetable garden with pesticides, and how I
was prepared to get an injunction from our town justice, which would've
directed the cops to arrest the neighbor if the spraying actually took
place? That's an 8 on the scale. A convicted child molester moving in
next door - that's a 10.

"Michelle C" wrote in message
...

I have already decided that I will trim the vines on their side of the
fence. But now I'm wondering who is right, and who is wrong, in this
situation? Am I right to think my neighbors are cranky? Does the law
obligate me to trim vines that enter my neighbors yard? Should they accept
the minor chore of vine trimming in return for having such a beautiful
backdrop (their words) to their garden?


We have a problem neighbor too. What we did was build three trellis
structures separated by evergreen trees about 2 feet inside the fenceline
(there is an existing three rail cedar fence). Because there is no height
restriction on the trellis, they are eight feet tall and I have rambling and
climbing roses growing on them, and I can trim both sides. They block the
objectionable view and look lovely in bloom. Your neighbors sound as
unreasonable as ours and I wish you luck.

Karen

we not only have to trim all the crappy brush grows thru our 700 foot long fence
along our drive, we gotta cart all the trimmings away rather than tossing them over
the fence into their wild trashy brush. Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

"Michelle C" wrote in message
...
Three years ago, my neighbors were storing a canoe up against the chain
link
fence that separates our backyards. It was an eyesore. My opinion is that
I
have no right complaining to my neighbors about what they do on their own
property, so I took a pro-active approach instead. I planted some Silver
Lace vines on the chain link fence. This worked very well, and by the end
of
summer it hid the canoe, and it looked really nice.

The following year, they got rid of the canoe and planted a flower garden
in
its place. Even though I no longer needed the vines, they looked so
beautiful that I kept them.

Now, three years later, they are a magnificent backdrop to the rest of my
flower garden. It's a backdrop to their flower garden too, and they didn't
even have to pay for it.

During teh Christmas holidays, I invited these neighbors over for a
holiday
drink, and James said "Michelle, you're going to have to do something
about
those vines." When I asked him what he meant, he said that the vines were
growing into their yard and are strangling their plants.

I told him that it's a vine, and all vines need trimming occasionally. I
told him I trim my side of the vine every two or three weeks in the
summer,
and it only takes about five minutes each time. I said that's a small
price
to pay for having such a beautiful plant that is covering what was an ugly
chain link fence.

He told me that he and his wife shouldn't have to trim it at all, because
it
was my vine. He said if I were willing to trim it on their side of the
fence
from now on, they wouldn't have a problem with it, but if I don't do this,
I'd have to "do something about my vines". He of course means I should
kill
the plants to make him happy.

I changed the topic and wasn't the same for the rest of the evening. I was
insulted that they would come into my home, drink my wine, and use it as
an
opportunity to criticize me. Plus, it's winter! Why is he bringing that up
in the middle of winter?

I have already decided that I will trim the vines on their side of the
fence. But now I'm wondering who is right, and who is wrong, in this
situation? Am I right to think my neighbors are cranky? Does the law
obligate me to trim vines that enter my neighbors yard? Should they accept
the minor chore of vine trimming in return for having such a beautiful
backdrop (their words) to their garden?

TIA!
Michelle

And definitely, DO NOT invite them to any more social gatherings at your
home! What a waste of "social time"... Too bad we can't pick our
neighbors; I know I'd have one that would definitely be a goner.

Cheryl

Michelle C wrote:

PS These same neighbors complain that my oak trees drop leaves into
their yard each fall. I don't think they are reasonable people.


And yet you invite them over for a drink?

The only way to deal with unreasonable people is to avoid them. That
would preclude actually inviting them over, and giving them wine.

On the other hand, it really could be that they have different
expectations about the vine. Perhaps they haven't trimmed it because
they're afraid you're an unreasonable person who'll freak-out because
they're chopping away at your vine. Perhaps where they grew-up, people
trimmed plants that went into other people's yards. Maybe they expect
that reasonable people clean-up leaves from their trees that fall on
their neighbor's lawn.

I have a neighbor who doesn't have a tree in his front yard. I have a
huge tree that even extends over part of his lawn. When I vac up the
leaves on my yard, I continue past the lot line, and get the heavy leaf
fall. I don't go and grab every leaf that's blown across his lawn, but
once I'm done, he really doesn't have to rake. If the tables were
turned, I probably wouldn't complain about raking, but I'd notice the
irony of needing to rake when I don't even have a tree.

So maybe they just didn't want to trim your vine. And it's really not so
far out there to expect that you would trim your vine -- even the part
going over the lot line. Perhaps your reaction caught them off guard,
and it's not that they would mind doing it now that they know they're
allowed to. It may just be that they were surprised that you *expected*
them to trim *your* vine.

Maybe they are unreasonable people. But there's not enough information
to tell. They could be reasonable people with different expectations and
customs than you.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Compare the newest tax preparation software apps:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/taxes/index.html

" And yet you invite them over for a drink?

Yes, in the spirit of Christmas and in the hopes that we could get along.
My mistake. Sorry.



Perhaps they haven't trimmed it because they're afraid you're an
unreasonable person who'll freak-out because they're chopping away at your
vine.

That's ridiculous.


Maybe they expect that reasonable people clean-up leaves from their trees
that fall on their neighbor's lawn.

Add that is beyond ridiculous.

Hey - you don't live next door to me, do you?