One of my favorite topics to ponder is wooodland gardening. My property
abuts an area of woods, and I am letting part of my property go back to
nature (pretty much). I am going down there to weed out the obvious
noxious weeds (which I am defining as things that have shown a
propensity for taking over the universe if left unchecked). I have also
been putting in some plants, semi-randomly. Therein lies some
questions. Would you put in nice woodland plants to speed up the
process? Would you put them in fairly randomly, on the grounds that
they would appear that way in nature? I seem to be gravitating toward
things that have white blooms, some variation in leaf color, some
attraction for wildlife.

Any suggestions for good plants, keeping the above in mind, and the fact
that the area gets partial sun at best (more this year because of the
d--ned caterpillers that I mentioned a while ago) and is a bit
damp--even collecting some water in the winter. The soil is acidic--and
it is very rocky. (Therein lies another question. I would REALLY like
to find sources for tiny seedlings, because it is VERY hard to plant
bigger plants back there.) I am in zone 5, but like plants to be rated
down to 4, because of the brutally cold winter we had the year before last.

Thanks.... BTW, I do keep doing searches, looking at Paghat's
(wonderful) site, etc., and I am sort-of inching along.... I did find a
nice little vine at a nursery this week and had to come back here and
check it out before I bought it. Methinks it will be glorious.
--
Jean B.

"Jean B." wrote in message
...
One of my favorite topics to ponder is wooodland gardening. My property
abuts an area of woods, and I am letting part of my property go back to
nature (pretty much). I am going down there to weed out the obvious
noxious weeds (which I am defining as things that have shown a
propensity for taking over the universe if left unchecked). I have also
been putting in some plants, semi-randomly. Therein lies some
questions. Would you put in nice woodland plants to speed up the
process? Would you put them in fairly randomly, on the grounds that
they would appear that way in nature? I seem to be gravitating toward
things that have white blooms, some variation in leaf color, some
attraction for wildlife.

Any suggestions for good plants, keeping the above in mind, and the fact
that the area gets partial sun at best (more this year because of the
d--ned caterpillers that I mentioned a while ago) and is a bit
damp--even collecting some water in the winter. The soil is acidic--and
it is very rocky. (Therein lies another question. I would REALLY like
to find sources for tiny seedlings, because it is VERY hard to plant
bigger plants back there.) I am in zone 5, but like plants to be rated
down to 4, because of the brutally cold winter we had the year before
last.

Thanks.... BTW, I do keep doing searches, looking at Paghat's
(wonderful) site, etc., and I am sort-of inching along.... I did find a
nice little vine at a nursery this week and had to come back here and
check it out before I bought it. Methinks it will be glorious.

You might want to look at the search feature at Bluestone Perennials
http://www.bluestoneperennials.com/b...earch_mod.html

They sell rather small plants. Also, many of the plants they recommend for
zone 4 shade/acid soil can be easily propagated from seed. Thompson and
Morgan sells a wide range of seed that you could start yourself. I think
one issue might be the fact that it is wet. Standing water in the winter
will do-in most plants.

Vox Humana wrote:

"Jean B." wrote in message
...

One of my favorite topics to ponder is wooodland gardening. My property
abuts an area of woods, and I am letting part of my property go back to
nature (pretty much). I am going down there to weed out the obvious
noxious weeds (which I am defining as things that have shown a
propensity for taking over the universe if left unchecked). I have also
been putting in some plants, semi-randomly. Therein lies some
questions. Would you put in nice woodland plants to speed up the
process? Would you put them in fairly randomly, on the grounds that
they would appear that way in nature? I seem to be gravitating toward
things that have white blooms, some variation in leaf color, some
attraction for wildlife.

Any suggestions for good plants, keeping the above in mind, and the fact
that the area gets partial sun at best (more this year because of the
d--ned caterpillers that I mentioned a while ago) and is a bit
damp--even collecting some water in the winter. The soil is acidic--and
it is very rocky. (Therein lies another question. I would REALLY like
to find sources for tiny seedlings, because it is VERY hard to plant
bigger plants back there.) I am in zone 5, but like plants to be rated
down to 4, because of the brutally cold winter we had the year before

last.

Thanks.... BTW, I do keep doing searches, looking at Paghat's
(wonderful) site, etc., and I am sort-of inching along.... I did find a
nice little vine at a nursery this week and had to come back here and
check it out before I bought it. Methinks it will be glorious.


You might want to look at the search feature at Bluestone Perennials
http://www.bluestoneperennials.com/b...earch_mod.html

They sell rather small plants. Also, many of the plants they recommend for
zone 4 shade/acid soil can be easily propagated from seed. Thompson and
Morgan sells a wide range of seed that you could start yourself. I think
one issue might be the fact that it is wet. Standing water in the winter
will do-in most plants.


Thanks! I should say there is a varying degree of moisture. There
usually is not standing water/ice anywhere, but it is possible at the
rearmost part of the area in question. Other parts just don't get
really dry--which I view as a good thing for some plants.

This is gonna sound stupid (and it feels stupid), but I have a black
thumb and am not even sure I can sprout seeds, so I prefer tiny plants.
I am trying to get past this block though, since it opens up so many
more possibilities.

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." wrote in message
...
Vox Humana wrote:

"Jean B." wrote in message
...

One of my favorite topics to ponder is wooodland gardening. My property
abuts an area of woods, and I am letting part of my property go back to
nature (pretty much). I am going down there to weed out the obvious
noxious weeds (which I am defining as things that have shown a
propensity for taking over the universe if left unchecked). I have also
been putting in some plants, semi-randomly. Therein lies some
questions. Would you put in nice woodland plants to speed up the
process? Would you put them in fairly randomly, on the grounds that
they would appear that way in nature? I seem to be gravitating toward
things that have white blooms, some variation in leaf color, some
attraction for wildlife.

Any suggestions for good plants, keeping the above in mind, and the fact
that the area gets partial sun at best (more this year because of the
d--ned caterpillers that I mentioned a while ago) and is a bit
damp--even collecting some water in the winter. The soil is acidic--and
it is very rocky. (Therein lies another question. I would REALLY like
to find sources for tiny seedlings, because it is VERY hard to plant
bigger plants back there.) I am in zone 5, but like plants to be rated
down to 4, because of the brutally cold winter we had the year before

last.

Thanks.... BTW, I do keep doing searches, looking at Paghat's
(wonderful) site, etc., and I am sort-of inching along.... I did find a
nice little vine at a nursery this week and had to come back here and
check it out before I bought it. Methinks it will be glorious.


You might want to look at the search feature at Bluestone Perennials
http://www.bluestoneperennials.com/b...earch_mod.html

They sell rather small plants. Also, many of the plants they recommend
for
zone 4 shade/acid soil can be easily propagated from seed. Thompson and
Morgan sells a wide range of seed that you could start yourself. I
think
one issue might be the fact that it is wet. Standing water in the
winter
will do-in most plants.


Thanks! I should say there is a varying degree of moisture. There
usually is not standing water/ice anywhere, but it is possible at the
rearmost part of the area in question. Other parts just don't get
really dry--which I view as a good thing for some plants.

This is gonna sound stupid (and it feels stupid), but I have a black
thumb and am not even sure I can sprout seeds, so I prefer tiny plants.
I am trying to get past this block though, since it opens up so many
more possibilities.

I understand about the fear of propagating plants from seeds. A few years
ago I found some seeds at deep discount so I gave it a try. Nearly all of
the seeds sprouted, and I only lost a dollar or two on the seeds that
didn't. The return on investment was enormous. This time of year you will
find stores clearing out their seeds. You can get some sterile potting
medium and sow the seeds in a margarine tub. You don't need a lot of
equipment and since it is warm and sunny outside, you can just start them
outside and skip the lights and mess indoors. That said, there is nothing
wrong with buying plants. Bluestone Perennials and Springhill Nursery both
sell very small plants (in cell packs or bare root).

You might check your region for botanical gardens. Taking a few trips to
these gardens will give you some good ideas about design and plant
selection. Conservation of wetlands is an a hot area of interest. You
might have some bogs in your area that are open to visitors. That would be
a good resource for areas that constantly wet.

A third resource would be a library or large bookstore. You can browse the
garden section to find books on woodland gardening.

Vox Humana wrote:

I understand about the fear of propagating plants from seeds. A few years
ago I found some seeds at deep discount so I gave it a try. Nearly all of
the seeds sprouted, and I only lost a dollar or two on the seeds that
didn't. The return on investment was enormous. This time of year you will
find stores clearing out their seeds. You can get some sterile potting
medium and sow the seeds in a margarine tub. You don't need a lot of
equipment and since it is warm and sunny outside, you can just start them
outside and skip the lights and mess indoors.

Well, I did buy some seeds, and I will try to think of them as an
experiment. I had the brilliant idea (or not) that plastic egg cartons
would make nice little greenhouses....

That said, there is nothing
wrong with buying plants. Bluestone Perennials and Springhill Nursery both
sell very small plants (in cell packs or bare root).

Hmmm. Have been looking at Bluestone. I forget how folks rate
Springhill and will check that out first....

You might check your region for botanical gardens. Taking a few trips to
these gardens will give you some good ideas about design and plant
selection. Conservation of wetlands is an a hot area of interest. You
might have some bogs in your area that are open to visitors. That would be
a good resource for areas that constantly wet.

For better or for worse, this is probably not quite a wetland

A third resource would be a library or large bookstore. You can browse the
garden section to find books on woodland gardening.


I do need to do that more and not just keep getting out my favorite book
on the topic, which I am going to bite the bullet and buy. It's lucky I
like to research things before I do them, or today I would have planted
something that was much too invasive.



--
Jean B.

"Jean B." wrote in message
...
Vox Humana wrote:

I understand about the fear of propagating plants from seeds. A few
years
ago I found some seeds at deep discount so I gave it a try. Nearly all
of
the seeds sprouted, and I only lost a dollar or two on the seeds that
didn't. The return on investment was enormous. This time of year you
will
find stores clearing out their seeds. You can get some sterile potting
medium and sow the seeds in a margarine tub. You don't need a lot of
equipment and since it is warm and sunny outside, you can just start
them
outside and skip the lights and mess indoors.

Well, I did buy some seeds, and I will try to think of them as an
experiment. I had the brilliant idea (or not) that plastic egg cartons
would make nice little greenhouses....

That said, there is nothing
wrong with buying plants. Bluestone Perennials and Springhill Nursery
both
sell very small plants (in cell packs or bare root).

Hmmm. Have been looking at Bluestone. I forget how folks rate
Springhill and will check that out first....


Springhill gets bad remarks. They had some problems a few years ago and
were associated with some other bad companies under the umbrella of their
parent company. The whole outfit went bankrupt and the employees bought
Springhill. I live near their facility and buy from them without any
complaint. They have a liberal refund policy. The other issue with them is
that their catalog shows full, mature plants. They sort of paint a fantasy
of how wonderful your garden will be with their plants. In reality, they
ship very small plants that will take three or four year to get close to the
size shown in the catalog. Of course, many of the trees and shrubs will
take even longer. People who expect to receive huge plants are often ****ed
when a tiny bare-root plant arrives. Dormant, bare-root plants appear to be
dead to the uninformed and sometimes people think they have been swindled.
The plants from Bluestone are the same size as the ones from Springhill, but
Bluestone is more candid in their representation of the plants they ship.
Springhill is having their huge annual catalog clearance sale starting this
Thursday. Everything that didn't sell in the catalog will be available at
their main facility for $1. I have a yard full of plants from both the
Springhill and Bluestone clearance events (Bluestone had theirs two weeks
ago - all you could fit into a flat for $25.





You might check your region for botanical gardens. Taking a few trips
to
these gardens will give you some good ideas about design and plant
selection. Conservation of wetlands is an a hot area of interest. You
might have some bogs in your area that are open to visitors. That would
be
a good resource for areas that constantly wet.

For better or for worse, this is probably not quite a wetland

A third resource would be a library or large bookstore. You can browse
the
garden section to find books on woodland gardening.


I do need to do that more and not just keep getting out my favorite book
on the topic, which I am going to bite the bullet and buy. It's lucky I
like to research things before I do them, or today I would have planted
something that was much too invasive.



--
Jean B.

"Jean B." wrote in message
...
Vox Humana wrote:

I understand about the fear of propagating plants from seeds. A few
years
ago I found some seeds at deep discount so I gave it a try. Nearly all
of
the seeds sprouted, and I only lost a dollar or two on the seeds that
didn't. The return on investment was enormous. This time of year you
will
find stores clearing out their seeds. You can get some sterile potting
medium and sow the seeds in a margarine tub. You don't need a lot of
equipment and since it is warm and sunny outside, you can just start
them
outside and skip the lights and mess indoors.

Well, I did buy some seeds, and I will try to think of them as an
experiment. I had the brilliant idea (or not) that plastic egg cartons
would make nice little greenhouses....

I like the clear plastic clamshell container that strawberries come in.
Sometimes you can buy them from the grocery store as they are used for
take-out salad bar containers and come in many sizes.

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:00:11 -0400, "Jean B." wrote:

Vox Humana wrote:

I understand about the fear of propagating plants from seeds. A few years
ago I found some seeds at deep discount so I gave it a try. Nearly all of
the seeds sprouted, and I only lost a dollar or two on the seeds that
didn't. The return on investment was enormous. This time of year you will
find stores clearing out their seeds. You can get some sterile potting
medium and sow the seeds in a margarine tub. You don't need a lot of
equipment and since it is warm and sunny outside, you can just start them
outside and skip the lights and mess indoors.

Well, I did buy some seeds, and I will try to think of them as an
experiment. I had the brilliant idea (or not) that plastic egg cartons
would make nice little greenhouses....

You'd think so, but they are shallow and tend to dry out quickly.
Too bad.

Styrofoam cups, with holes in the bottom, in gallon ziplock bags (with
slits in the bottom for drainage) make for good greenhouses. Just
open the ziplock for ventilation so you don't fry the seedlings.

Growing from seed is a lot of fun and pretty easy once you get used
to it.
That said, there is nothing
wrong with buying plants. Bluestone Perennials and Springhill Nursery both
sell very small plants (in cell packs or bare root).

Hmmm. Have been looking at Bluestone. I forget how folks rate
Springhill and will check that out first....

I like Bluestone for the perrenials. Don't expect a lot until the
second year. I'd pass on the shrubs -- too small and will take years
to get going.

Swyck

wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:00:11 -0400, "Jean B." wrote:


Vox Humana wrote:

I understand about the fear of propagating plants from seeds. A few years
ago I found some seeds at deep discount so I gave it a try. Nearly all of
the seeds sprouted, and I only lost a dollar or two on the seeds that
didn't. The return on investment was enormous. This time of year you will
find stores clearing out their seeds. You can get some sterile potting
medium and sow the seeds in a margarine tub. You don't need a lot of
equipment and since it is warm and sunny outside, you can just start them
outside and skip the lights and mess indoors.

Well, I did buy some seeds, and I will try to think of them as an
experiment. I had the brilliant idea (or not) that plastic egg cartons
would make nice little greenhouses....


You'd think so, but they are shallow and tend to dry out quickly.
Too bad.

Styrofoam cups, with holes in the bottom, in gallon ziplock bags (with
slits in the bottom for drainage) make for good greenhouses. Just
open the ziplock for ventilation so you don't fry the seedlings.

Growing from seed is a lot of fun and pretty easy once you get used
to it.

That said, there is nothing

wrong with buying plants. Bluestone Perennials and Springhill Nursery both
sell very small plants (in cell packs or bare root).

Hmmm. Have been looking at Bluestone. I forget how folks rate
Springhill and will check that out first....

I like Bluestone for the perrenials. Don't expect a lot until the
second year. I'd pass on the shrubs -- too small and will take years
to get going.

Swyck
My recent Bluestone order arrived with one completely dead plant (not
bare root, just dead. And two of the three "spotty" dianthus I ordered
turned out to be a different variety and not anywhere near as pretty.

I was underwhelmed with the packing they arrived in--long twisted plants
packed in a box with plastic peanuts. More than half the stems of my
Trollius were completely crimped and had to be cut off.

My experience with Spring Hill was much better, though I quickly learned
that I could buy the same plants in much larger versions in local
nurseries for the same money.

I only mail order now to get things I can't find locally.

I'm experimenting with rooting bits of things I already have and want
more of now. Too soon to tell if it will work.

I started a bunch of perennials from seed this spring using a little kit
from Christmas Tree Shops that came with the tiny plastic greenhouse and
six packets of seed (For less than $5. Who could resist?). I've now got
6 columbines, 2 lupines, and a bunch of shasta daisies and foxglove
growing quite happily in my woodland garden. I moved them to peat pots
once they germinated and gave them a lot of time in the shelter of my
deck before planting them in the garden.

I just hope they're pretty. All too often when I buy plants where it
isn't clear what color they're going to be, they turn out to be
something ugly. I just pulled out four of the most disgusting Siberian
irises I've ever seen--brown with greenish yellow highlights-that came
in a mixed iris collection I bought last fall.

"Jean B." wrote in :

Vox Humana wrote:

I understand about the fear of propagating plants from seeds. A few
years ago I found some seeds at deep discount so I gave it a try.
Nearly all of the seeds sprouted, and I only lost a dollar or two on
the seeds that didn't. The return on investment was enormous. This
time of year you will find stores clearing out their seeds. You can
get some sterile potting medium and sow the seeds in a margarine tub.
You don't need a lot of equipment and since it is warm and sunny
outside, you can just start them outside and skip the lights and mess
indoors.

Well, I did buy some seeds, and I will try to think of them as an
experiment. I had the brilliant idea (or not) that plastic egg
cartons would make nice little greenhouses....

My eggsperience is the egg cartons work okay if you turn them upside down
so that the soil is in the top. If you do them right side up, I also
found they dry out too quickly, the soil volume is lacking and they blow
away easily if it is windy. You can cut up little pieces of milk/juice
carton plastic for dividers if you really need/want to seperate the
seeds.

My favorite seed starter is a clear plastic 64 oz. juice bottle. Drill
holes in the bottom and in the sides near the top. If you cut a mouth
wash bottle in half, it makes a good funnel for the soil. Cut the juice
ottle open when it's time to get the plant(s) out. It's practically
idiot-proof.

"Jenny" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:00:11 -0400, "Jean B." wrote:
My recent Bluestone order arrived with one completely dead plant (not
bare root, just dead. And two of the three "spotty" dianthus I ordered
turned out to be a different variety and not anywhere near as pretty.

I was underwhelmed with the packing they arrived in--long twisted plants
packed in a box with plastic peanuts. More than half the stems of my
Trollius were completely crimped and had to be cut off.


I would call them. I'm confident that they will either refund your money or
ship you new plants, if available. Since they just cleared out the
greenhouses to make way for their fall production, they probably don't have
anthing left to ship right now. All the people that I have met at Bluestone
have been very nice. Seriously, I would call them and let them know what
happened.

Vox Humana wrote:
"Jenny" wrote in message
...

wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:00:11 -0400, "Jean B." wrote:

My recent Bluestone order arrived with one completely dead plant (not
bare root, just dead. And two of the three "spotty" dianthus I ordered
turned out to be a different variety and not anywhere near as pretty.

I was underwhelmed with the packing they arrived in--long twisted plants
packed in a box with plastic peanuts. More than half the stems of my
Trollius were completely crimped and had to be cut off.



I would call them. I'm confident that they will either refund your money or
ship you new plants, if available. Since they just cleared out the
greenhouses to make way for their fall production, they probably don't have
anthing left to ship right now. All the people that I have met at Bluestone
have been very nice. Seriously, I would call them and let them know what
happened.


I called about the dead plant on arrival and they gave me a refund. The
I planted the damaged plants and 2 of them look pretty good, though the
blooms are literally 1/3 the size I was expecting them to be.

I will call about the dianthus. They only just flowered and the foliage
looked the same, so I only just learned that the two plants were a
different dianthus.

Vox Humana wrote:

Springhill gets bad remarks. They had some problems a few years ago and
were associated with some other bad companies under the umbrella of their
parent company. The whole outfit went bankrupt and the employees bought
Springhill. I live near their facility and buy from them without any
complaint. They have a liberal refund policy. The other issue with them is
that their catalog shows full, mature plants. They sort of paint a fantasy
of how wonderful your garden will be with their plants. In reality, they
ship very small plants that will take three or four year to get close to the
size shown in the catalog. Of course, many of the trees and shrubs will
take even longer. People who expect to receive huge plants are often ****ed
when a tiny bare-root plant arrives. Dormant, bare-root plants appear to be
dead to the uninformed and sometimes people think they have been swindled.
The plants from Bluestone are the same size as the ones from Springhill, but
Bluestone is more candid in their representation of the plants they ship.
Springhill is having their huge annual catalog clearance sale starting this
Thursday. Everything that didn't sell in the catalog will be available at
their main facility for $1. I have a yard full of plants from both the
Springhill and Bluestone clearance events (Bluestone had theirs two weeks
ago - all you could fit into a flat for $25.


Well, I want small plants, but I also want to know they will be small.
It is pretty hot here, so I wonder how wise it would be to order any
plants now? It sort-of sounds like I am going to have to wait until
Spring (or maybe try to grow some things myself), so I have quite a
while to gather information. While one can plant in the fall, the
plants would obviously have grown a lot bigger over the summer, and
hence they would be harder for me to plant.

--
Jean B.

Vox Humana wrote:

I like the clear plastic clamshell container that strawberries come in.
Sometimes you can buy them from the grocery store as they are used for
take-out salad bar containers and come in many sizes.


I am starting to accrue containers. Just one more mess.

--
Jean B.

wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:00:11 -0400, "Jean B." wrote:

Well, I did buy some seeds, and I will try to think of them as an
experiment. I had the brilliant idea (or not) that plastic egg cartons
would make nice little greenhouses....


You'd think so, but they are shallow and tend to dry out quickly.
Too bad.

Yes, I think I am already seeing that. Actually, right now I am trying
to root some esoteric grass seeds in bits of sponge, having read some
comments on that....

Styrofoam cups, with holes in the bottom, in gallon ziplock bags (with
slits in the bottom for drainage) make for good greenhouses. Just
open the ziplock for ventilation so you don't fry the seedlings.

I'll try that.

Growing from seed is a lot of fun and pretty easy once you get used
to it.

Obviously, it would be a good thing to master, since it opens up a lot
more possibilities--and is cheaper than buying the plants.

I like Bluestone for the perrenials. Don't expect a lot until the
second year. I'd pass on the shrubs -- too small and will take years
to get going.

Oh too bad! I guess I will just have to buy that nice shrub I saw and
somehow dig a big enough hole for it.

--
Jean B.