Doug Kanter wrote:

"Suzy O" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

And be sure to keep kids off the lawn for a couple of months.


Months? The typical broadleaf herbicide contains three ingredients:
dicamba, MCPP and 2,4-D. All the sources I've seen report that it's safe
to
enter a treated area after the product has dried. If you have other
information, please correct me.


Suzy, since these things cannot be properly tested for safety, I'd be
interested in knowing who all your sources were. Seriously. I'm genuinely
interested.



The OP, however, asked how to get rid of the clover. So what do you
suggest
as an alternative? I'm all ears!! Sincerely.


I don't have an alternative. I was just telling you to be careful about
using your lawn for a period of time. Admittedly, the period of time I
suggested was a random choice, but absent any testing method you can trust,
hey....sometimes you have to guess.


Type "2,4-D" to Google. The first thing it found was http://www.24d.org/

"Stubby" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

"Suzy O" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

And be sure to keep kids off the lawn for a couple of months.


Months? The typical broadleaf herbicide contains three ingredients:
dicamba, MCPP and 2,4-D. All the sources I've seen report that it's safe
to
enter a treated area after the product has dried. If you have other
information, please correct me.


Suzy, since these things cannot be properly tested for safety, I'd be
interested in knowing who all your sources were. Seriously. I'm genuinely
interested.



The OP, however, asked how to get rid of the clover. So what do you
suggest
as an alternative? I'm all ears!! Sincerely.


I don't have an alternative. I was just telling you to be careful about
using your lawn for a period of time. Admittedly, the period of time I
suggested was a random choice, but absent any testing method you can
trust, hey....sometimes you have to guess.
Type "2,4-D" to Google. The first thing it found was http://www.24d.org/

Good site. But, the only way to reliably determine whether ANY substance is
harmful to health is to feed it to the population in question, within the
limits of a controlled study, as is done with new medicines. So, these
products cannot be tested. Sorry.

"Good site. But, the only way to reliably determine whether ANY
substance is
harmful to health is to feed it to the population in question, within
the
limits of a controlled study, as is done with new medicines. "

Yes, I'm sure a lot of people have been used in controlled studies and
fed things like the plastics that are used for food containers,
aluminum foil, carpet cleaner, lysol, room deodorizer, fantasik spray
cleaner, soaps used for washing dishes..... Get the idea?

wrote in message
ups.com...
"Good site. But, the only way to reliably determine whether ANY
substance is
harmful to health is to feed it to the population in question, within
the
limits of a controlled study, as is done with new medicines. "

Yes, I'm sure a lot of people have been used in controlled studies and
fed things like the plastics that are used for food containers,
aluminum foil, carpet cleaner, lysol, room deodorizer, fantasik spray
cleaner, soaps used for washing dishes..... Get the idea?


None of the products you just mentioned are designed to kill things.

Meanwhile: Here's the source of the toxicology data for the chemicals at
that web site. Do I need to explain the significance of this information, or
can you extrapolate on your own?

INDUSTRY TASK FORCE II ON 2,4-D RESEARCH DATA
B-26 Cedar Point Villas
Swansboro, NC 28584
Information Line: U.S. and Canada (800) 345-5109
FAX (252) 393-6327

Yes, I'm sure a lot of people have been used in controlled studies and

fed things like the plastics that are used for food containers,
aluminum foil, carpet cleaner, lysol, room deodorizer, fantasik spray
cleaner, soaps used for washing dishes.....

"None of the products you just mentioned are designed to kill things. "


Last time I checked, Lysol contains chemicals specifically designed to
kill germs on contact. So do many of the new soaps used for cleaning
dishes. Any of those been put through tests where humans eat them?
Doooh, there goes that argument! And since when does not being
specifically designed to kill things mean that something is
automatically safe? I don't think gasoline was designed to kill things
either, but I wouldn't drink it.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Yes, I'm sure a lot of people have been used in controlled studies and

fed things like the plastics that are used for food containers,
aluminum foil, carpet cleaner, lysol, room deodorizer, fantasik spray
cleaner, soaps used for washing dishes.....

"None of the products you just mentioned are designed to kill things. "


Last time I checked, Lysol contains chemicals specifically designed to
kill germs on contact. So do many of the new soaps used for cleaning
dishes. Any of those been put through tests where humans eat them?
Doooh, there goes that argument! And since when does not being
specifically designed to kill things mean that something is
automatically safe? I don't think gasoline was designed to kill things
either, but I wouldn't drink it.


OK - Lysol. If you use that in a place where your kids are likely to be
rolling around and making constant skin contact, like a lawn, you are an
idiot and your kids should be taken away from you and placed in a home with
parents who didn't take the short bus to school.

Now - onward:
Meanwhile: Here's the source of the toxicology data for the chemicals at
that web site. Do I need to explain the significance of this information, or
can you extrapolate on your own?

INDUSTRY TASK FORCE II ON 2,4-D RESEARCH DATA
B-26 Cedar Point Villas
Swansboro, NC 28584
Information Line: U.S. and Canada (800) 345-5109
FAX (252) 393-6327

What does this information mean to you? And while we're at it, how old are
you? Your age is crucial to this discussion.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Yes, I'm sure a lot of people have been used in controlled studies
and

fed things like the plastics that are used for food containers,
aluminum foil, carpet cleaner, lysol, room deodorizer, fantasik
spray
cleaner, soaps used for washing dishes.....

"None of the products you just mentioned are designed to kill
things. "


Last time I checked, Lysol contains chemicals specifically designed
to
kill germs on contact. So do many of the new soaps used for
cleaning
dishes. Any of those been put through tests where humans eat
them?
Doooh, there goes that argument! And since when does not being
specifically designed to kill things mean that something is
automatically safe? I don't think gasoline was designed to kill
things
either, but I wouldn't drink it.


Lysol is a neurotoxin. Most neurologists recommend against using it,
especially around anyone who might be vulnerable (the elderly,
disabled, children, people with compromised immune systems, other
illnesses, etc). When you inhale the particles, it goes directly into
your system. One doesn't need to ingest such products to be harmed by
them. It's fairly well understood in the medical community that the
increase in toxins, pollutants, chemical products, etc over the years
has had a summative and cumulative effect on the general health of the
population.

Jo

Stubby wrote:
Type "2,4-D" to Google. The first thing it found was http://www.24d.org/

Hey Stubby, don't use it if you're afraid of it. No one is holding a gun to
your head either way.

The Kernels Chicken has been rumored to give lab rats cancer, everytime
they give them three times their body weight of dark meat too.

What's a mother to do?

"Jo" wrote:
Lysol is a neurotoxin.

Is that a pre or post emergent?

"OK - Lysol. If you use that in a place where your kids are likely to
be
rolling around and making constant skin contact, like a lawn, you are
an
idiot and your kids should be taken away from you and placed in a home
with
parents who didn't take the short bus to school. "

So it's ok to spray lysol around inside the house, in confined places
like the bathroom, or in musty clothes closets, where its' typically
used, but not ok to use on the lawn. Glad you cleared that up for us.
At least now you recogize that there are a lot of products used in and
around the home that haven't been tested by feeding them to humans, as
you require to prove safety.

Regarding the short bus comment, most civilized people find remarks
like that directed at handicapped people offensive, but coming from
you, it's no surprise.

"And while we're at it, how old are you? Your age is crucial to this
discussion. "

Old enough to know a bigoted moron when I see one.

wrote:


Regarding the short bus comment, most civilized people find remarks
like that directed at handicapped people offensive, but coming from
you, it's no surprise.

"And while we're at it, how old are you? Your age is crucial to this
discussion. "

Old enough to know a bigoted moron when I see one.


Just bigoted? Kanter's an extra special moron. Of the asswipe variety.

wrote in message
oups.com...
"OK - Lysol. If you use that in a place where your kids are likely to
be
rolling around and making constant skin contact, like a lawn, you are
an
idiot and your kids should be taken away from you and placed in a home
with
parents who didn't take the short bus to school. "

So it's ok to spray lysol around inside the house, in confined places
like the bathroom, or in musty clothes closets, where its' typically
used, but not ok to use on the lawn. Glad you cleared that up for us.
At least now you recogize that there are a lot of products used in and
around the home that haven't been tested by feeding them to humans, as
you require to prove safety.

Regarding the short bus comment, most civilized people find remarks
like that directed at handicapped people offensive, but coming from
you, it's no surprise.

"And while we're at it, how old are you? Your age is crucial to this
discussion. "

Old enough to know a bigoted moron when I see one.


Fall in love with your yard chemicals if you like. Just be aware that out of
each container, the only part that's tested in ANY way (probably with lab
rats) is the small amount called "active ingredient". The rest is exempt,
even though it consists of items already KNOWN to be dangerous to humans.
That's why it's exempt.

I'm sorry to keep attacking your family business this way, but you're
obviously too young to have been exposed to 35-40 years worth of information
on this subject. Your ignorance is appalling.

"I'm sorry to keep attacking your family business this way, but you're
obviously too young to have been exposed to 35-40 years worth of
information
on this subject. Your ignorance is appalling. "

No need to apologize to me Doug. I'm not in the lawn care business.
But perhaps you should appologize to the handicapped for insulting them
in this thread a couple posts back. Or to pet owners for advocating
poisoning neighbors pets who wander into your yard. As for me being
ignorant, perhaps you should go read some of your own posts, like this
gem from the beginning of this thread:

"Slow down with the weird remedies. I've read in multiple agricultural
sources that clover indicates either a nutrient imbalance or a problem
with
pH. Both are easy to deal with, without using any sort of chemical
nonsense
(other than lime and/or the right lawn food). "

Yeah, right, clover indicates a nutrient or PH imbalance. And this
coming from the jerk who claims he's the expert on organic lawn care.
Most anyone that has anything to do with lawns knows that clover
co-exists quite happily in lawns with the exact same PH and nutrients
as grass. Even kids who play in the park know it exists in lots of
lawns together with grass. Plus, if you knew anything about organic
lawn care, you'd know that people actually use clover in organic lawns,
as it fixes nitrogen into the soil, as an alternative to fertilizer.
So, you can fiddle with PH and nutrients till the cows come home and
the clover will still be there. Got it? Class dismissed!

wrote in message
oups.com...
"OK - Lysol. If you use that in a place where your kids are likely to
be
rolling around and making constant skin contact, like a lawn, you are
an
idiot and your kids should be taken away from you and placed in a home
with
parents who didn't take the short bus to school. "

So it's ok to spray lysol around inside the house, in confined places
like the bathroom, or in musty clothes closets, where its' typically
used, but not ok to use on the lawn. Glad you cleared that up for us.
At least now you recogize that there are a lot of products used in and
around the home that haven't been tested by feeding them to humans, as
you require to prove safety.

The difference is that with products you use at home, you have a CHOICE
about using them, and how they're used. With agricultural chemicals, you
have NO choice. The decision is made for you, not only as to their presence,
but also whether the ones used are safe. Get it?

"The difference is that with products you use at home, you have a
CHOICE
about using them, and how they're used. With agricultural chemicals,
you
have NO choice. The decision is made for you, not only as to their
presence,
but also whether the ones used are safe. Get it? "


Nice non-response. Must I smash this nonsense too? You are one of
those guys that thinks he's one of the smart elite and everyone else is
too dumb to read a label or make a choice. You think the rest of us
need someone else to figure this out and make the choices for us.
Some folks really concerned about making the best choice for us, like
farmers and the DOA, who are more concerned with shipping cows, than
seriously looking for mad cow. Only a couple years ago farmers were
selling downer cattle that couldn't even stand up for human food. Even
now, in the US, 1 in 90 cattle are tested for mad cow, while in Japan
it's 100% and in Europe, it's 1 in 4. Or the folks that pump cattle
full of hormones to fatten their profits. But THEY must know what's
good for the rest of us when it comes to using a chemical, right? And
they make those choices without regard to what's most cost effective or
easiest for them right? LOL!

The funniest part about this is all one has to do is take a look at the
BS you posted about clover presence in a lawn being a problem with PH
or nutrients to see how knowledgable and well informed you really are
about things that you profess to know. That must be why you keep
asking people how old they are, so you can find a suitable 10 year old
to believe your rantings.