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#1
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
About four years ago, I bought an Oncidium (reclassified as a
Tulumnia) Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant' from Carter & Holmes. This small plant is still small, but it has more than tripled its leaf count. It has, alas, yet to bloom. It is in S/H media and has good roots and densely packed healthy leaves. For the past two years, it's been outdoors for the summer (New England, USA) and indoors for the winter in a south-facing window or under a 400-watt MH light. I've tried a variety of fertilizers, including "bloom busters," but to no avail. It experiences the same day/night temperature variation as my plants in the Cattleya family, and they're blooming or in sheath. So, what am I doing wrong? Is there a trick to getting this stubborn little plant to bloom? |
#2
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
I have the same plant - growing in a slat basket of coconut husk fiber - and
growing up very high in the GH to get maximum light, and I fertilize it at every watering with 125 ppm N using the MSU RO formula. It is also in a breeze, so dries out rapidly. About 6 weeks ago or so (8-10?), it had five spikes all in full bloom. I would guess yours simply does not yet have the "mass" needed to bloom, so patience is the key. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info! "OrchidKitty" wrote in message oups.com... About four years ago, I bought an Oncidium (reclassified as a Tulumnia) Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant' from Carter & Holmes. This small plant is still small, but it has more than tripled its leaf count. It has, alas, yet to bloom. It is in S/H media and has good roots and densely packed healthy leaves. For the past two years, it's been outdoors for the summer (New England, USA) and indoors for the winter in a south-facing window or under a 400-watt MH light. I've tried a variety of fertilizers, including "bloom busters," but to no avail. It experiences the same day/night temperature variation as my plants in the Cattleya family, and they're blooming or in sheath. So, what am I doing wrong? Is there a trick to getting this stubborn little plant to bloom? |
#3
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
I think that if you've got it growing well you've overcome the main
obstacles. Mine blooms well when it gets enough light to turn the leaves a little red. I don't know if redder is better, but it seems that those I have that have redder foliage have bigger bloom stems and more blooms. In any case, they require a lot of very bright light most of the year to bloom. Gary "OrchidKitty" wrote in message oups.com... About four years ago, I bought an Oncidium (reclassified as a Tulumnia) Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant' from Carter & Holmes. This small plant is still small, but it has more than tripled its leaf count. It has, alas, yet to bloom. It is in S/H media and has good roots and densely packed healthy leaves. For the past two years, it's been outdoors for the summer (New England, USA) and indoors for the winter in a south-facing window or under a 400-watt MH light. I've tried a variety of fertilizers, including "bloom busters," but to no avail. It experiences the same day/night temperature variation as my plants in the Cattleya family, and they're blooming or in sheath. So, what am I doing wrong? Is there a trick to getting this stubborn little plant to bloom? |
#4
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
Thanks Ray and V--
Its leaves are not red-tinged at all. I'll move it closer to bright light and see whether this helps. Next summer, I'll give it more sun too. |
#5
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
Ray wrote:
I have the same plant - growing in a slat basket of coconut husk fiber - and growing up very high in the GH to get maximum light, and I fertilize it at every watering with 125 ppm N using the MSU RO formula. It is also in a breeze, so dries out rapidly. About 6 weeks ago or so (8-10?), it had five spikes all in full bloom. I would guess yours simply does not yet have the "mass" needed to bloom, so patience is the key. I thought your web page on s/h specifically stated tolumnias don't like s/h culture, I believe the quote is " DO NOT try any tolumnias in S/H culture - they just don't go for it!" Have you changed your mind? K Barrett |
#6
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:35:01 -0700 in K Barrett wrote:
Ray wrote: I have the same plant - growing in a slat basket of coconut husk fiber - and growing up very high in the GH to get maximum light, and I fertilize it at every watering with 125 ppm N using the MSU RO formula. It is also in a breeze, so dries out rapidly. About 6 weeks ago or so (8-10?), it had five spikes all in full bloom. I would guess yours simply does not yet have the "mass" needed to bloom, so patience is the key. I thought your web page on s/h specifically stated tolumnias don't like s/h culture, I believe the quote is " DO NOT try any tolumnias in S/H culture - they just don't go for it!" When did "slat basket of coconut husk fibre" become SH? Although I expect to be dividing my Tolumnia popoki sooner or later and trying a division in a SH pot directly in front of a fan. -- Chris Dukes Suspicion breeds confidence -- Brazil |
#7
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
You might be confusing my original post with Ray's. At any rate, my
plant is doing very well in S/H, even though it isn't supposed to. When I put it in S/H, I was treating it like an ordinary oncidium, and they've done very well in S/H for me. Kitty Crocker is in a deep pot, and other than not blooming, it seems to be pretty happy. |
#8
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
Absolutely not.
The original post said it was in S/H medium, which I took as "...but not in S/H" as I'm fairly certain they wouldn't do that well. I have some Ascocentrum garayi seedlings in clay pots with PrimeAgra that are doing great. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info! "K Barrett" wrote in message ... Ray wrote: I have the same plant - growing in a slat basket of coconut husk fiber - and growing up very high in the GH to get maximum light, and I fertilize it at every watering with 125 ppm N using the MSU RO formula. It is also in a breeze, so dries out rapidly. About 6 weeks ago or so (8-10?), it had five spikes all in full bloom. I would guess yours simply does not yet have the "mass" needed to bloom, so patience is the key. I thought your web page on s/h specifically stated tolumnias don't like s/h culture, I believe the quote is " DO NOT try any tolumnias in S/H culture - they just don't go for it!" Have you changed your mind? K Barrett |
#9
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
OrchidKitty wrote:
You might be confusing my original post with Ray's. At any rate, my plant is doing very well in S/H, even though it isn't supposed to. When I put it in S/H, I was treating it like an ordinary oncidium, and they've done very well in S/H for me. Kitty Crocker is in a deep pot, and other than not blooming, it seems to be pretty happy. No, I read your post correctly. However I knew that Ray didn't think Tolumnias did well in S/H. So I asked him about it. Seems they are doing well in S/H (except for the flowering) for you. K Barrett |
#10
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
Ray wrote:
Absolutely not. The original post said it was in S/H medium, which I took as "...but not in S/H" as I'm fairly certain they wouldn't do that well. I have some Ascocentrum garayi seedlings in clay pots with PrimeAgra that are doing great. But OrchidKitty further clarified, that they are growing for him/her. Just so I'm clear that you still don't recommend S/H for tolumnias. K |
#11
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
? wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:35:01 -0700 in K Barrett wrote: Ray wrote: I have the same plant - growing in a slat basket of coconut husk fiber - and growing up very high in the GH to get maximum light, and I fertilize it at every watering with 125 ppm N using the MSU RO formula. It is also in a breeze, so dries out rapidly. About 6 weeks ago or so (8-10?), it had five spikes all in full bloom. I would guess yours simply does not yet have the "mass" needed to bloom, so patience is the key. I thought your web page on s/h specifically stated tolumnias don't like s/h culture, I believe the quote is " DO NOT try any tolumnias in S/H culture - they just don't go for it!" When did "slat basket of coconut husk fibre" become SH? Although I expect to be dividing my Tolumnia popoki sooner or later and trying a division in a SH pot directly in front of a fan. It isn't s/h. That's why I asked for clarification. OrchidKitty said s/he was growing his/her Tolumnia in s/h. I knew (from reading Rays site recently) that he didn't believe they did well in s/h, so I asked for clarification. He's allowed to change his mind, *G*. OrchidKitty replied that s/he is growing the orchid in full s/h, not just the medium... so there we are. YMMV K Barrett |
#12
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
"Ray" wrote in message ... Absolutely not. The original post said it was in S/H medium, which I took as "...but not in S/H" as I'm fairly certain they wouldn't do that well. What is the connection betweeb Tolumnia and Oncidium? Does your recommendation against semihydro apply to, e.g., Oncidium Sharry Baby or Oncidium Twinkle too (there's a pink ,and a yellow, variety of O. Twinkle that I'd like to try to get)? I have some Ascocentrum garayi seedlings in clay pots with PrimeAgra that are doing great. Can I infer from this that Ascofinetia would do well in semihydro too? Cheers, Ted -- R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D. R & D Decision Support Solutions http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/ Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making |
#13
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
You are correct, Kathy. I still do not recommend it, but I don't recommend
vandaceous in S/H either, and I know of lots of folks who grow them that way. My guess is that it depends a great deal upon the growing conditions (my very humid greenhouse versus a drier windowsill, for example) or how rigorously folks stick to the full regime of "semi-hydroponics." I have run into a lot of folks who use the LECA media in pots with a built-in reservoir, but water so sparingly and infrequently that it really isn't S/H culture at all, just "regular" orchid culture with different components. I am not saying that is the case with OK's Kitty Crocker, but it does seem to be pushing the envelope a bit. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info! "K Barrett" wrote in message ... Ray wrote: Absolutely not. The original post said it was in S/H medium, which I took as "...but not in S/H" as I'm fairly certain they wouldn't do that well. I have some Ascocentrum garayi seedlings in clay pots with PrimeAgra that are doing great. But OrchidKitty further clarified, that they are growing for him/her. Just so I'm clear that you still don't recommend S/H for tolumnias. K |
#14
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
Ted,
Even though they were once lumped into a single genus, tolumnia and oncidiums are quite different in their natural cultural conditions. If I recall correctly (I may be overgeneralizing, but you'll get the point anyway), tolumnias typically populate spindly branches of shrubs on the windward side of Caribbean islands and nearby mainland locales. As such, they are bathed in constant breezes and dry out almost instantly after rains. Many oncidiums, on the other hand, and more typically "jungle-based," with the overall wetter conditions seen there. Every attempt I have made to grow tolumnias in true S/H conditions has failed, which I rationalize by thinking about the vast dissimilarity of that root climate to that of the twigs. On the other hand, every pseudobulbed oncidium I've tried - Sharry Baby, a couple of species, and any big yellow "dancing doll" included - has thrived. My statement that I have the ascocentrums in clay pots of PrimeAgra was meant to point out that PrimeAgra can be used as a non-S/H growing medium. I did not say they were in S/H. But let me throw some more confusion into the fray: I would not recommend ascofinetia be grown in S/H, even though some folks are good at it, but I am successfully growing Neofinetia falcata that way. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info! "Ted Byers" wrote in message ... "Ray" wrote in message ... Absolutely not. The original post said it was in S/H medium, which I took as "...but not in S/H" as I'm fairly certain they wouldn't do that well. What is the connection betweeb Tolumnia and Oncidium? Does your recommendation against semihydro apply to, e.g., Oncidium Sharry Baby or Oncidium Twinkle too (there's a pink ,and a yellow, variety of O. Twinkle that I'd like to try to get)? I have some Ascocentrum garayi seedlings in clay pots with PrimeAgra that are doing great. Can I infer from this that Ascofinetia would do well in semihydro too? Cheers, Ted -- R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D. R & D Decision Support Solutions http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/ Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making |
#15
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Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'
"Ray" wrote in message ... Ted, Even though they were once lumped into a single genus, tolumnia and oncidiums are quite different in their natural cultural conditions. Out of curiosity, how similar are they morphologically? I did a search for pictures of Tolumnia using google, but the links I have pursued so far have only shown images of the flowers, which look much like the flowers of the Oncidiums I have seen. If I recall correctly (I may be overgeneralizing, but you'll get the point anyway), tolumnias typically populate spindly branches of shrubs on the windward side of Caribbean islands and nearby mainland locales. As such, they are bathed in constant breezes and dry out almost instantly after rains. Many oncidiums, on the other hand, and more typically "jungle-based," with the overall wetter conditions seen there. Do they have the adaptations one would usually expect in plants living in a relatively arid environment, such as fleshy leaves, perhaps proportionately larger pseudobulbs than the Oncidiums, roots that are better designed against dessication than one would expect from a rainforest epiphyte? I have never actually seen a Tolumnia in the flesh. Every attempt I have made to grow tolumnias in true S/H conditions has failed, which I rationalize by thinking about the vast dissimilarity of that root climate to that of the twigs. On the other hand, every pseudobulbed oncidium I've tried - Sharry Baby, a couple of species, and any big yellow "dancing doll" included - has thrived. Given what you have said about their natural environment, I would be astonished if they were found by someone to thrive in semihydro. If there are people who succeed in growing them in semihydro, what is the reason? Are they doing it in an environment that has much drier air, and thus much greater evaporative demand? If so, I could see that demand drying the air in the pores within the media, while the water in the pellets supplies sufficient water for the plant to meet that demand. If that is right, I could see the plant growing faster than normal since plant production is often correlated with evapotranspiration rates (at least in crop plants I've studied - I don't know how well that empirical relationship applies to orchids, if at all). My statement that I have the ascocentrums in clay pots of PrimeAgra was meant to point out that PrimeAgra can be used as a non-S/H growing medium. I did not say they were in S/H. But let me throw some more confusion into the fray: I would not recommend ascofinetia be grown in S/H, even though some folks are good at it, but I am successfully growing Neofinetia falcata that way. OK, I misunderstood you there. If Neofinetia does well in semihydro, but Ascofinetia does not, should that be taken to mean that Ascocentrum does not particularly like semihydro, and has passed that trait on to Ascofinetia? If not, what is the reason you wouldn't recommend semihydro for Acsofinetia even though some succeed with it? And here is a question about semihydro that is completely unrelated to orchids, unless there are orchids used as herbs in some cuisine with which I am completely unfamiliar. My neice is training to be a chef, and I thus tried to get her started in growing her own herbs, but to no avail. She must have thumbs even blacker than her mother and aunts, who can even kill plastic plants. ;-) The question is, if we have some seeds for a number of herbs, how can we get them germiinated and then growing in semihydro. My hope is that if we can get them growing in semihydro, she will be able to maintain them by simply restoring the initial water level in the reservoir when that drops by a centimetre or two. She is one that often forgets to water her plants, and so they usually die from dessication! Of course, seedlings are much more vulnerable to her than a relatively mature plant, but even they die from dessication eventually. I'd like to try to make taking care of plants as easy as possible, to improve her chances of keeping the herbs healthy enough to use in her outstanding cooking. It is amazing to me that such an outstanding chef could be so severely challenged when it comes to keeping plants healthy! Cheers, Ted -- R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D. R & D Decision Support Solutions http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/ Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making |
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