Need some info from the orchid lovers from down under. I have a Den
speciosum that is in the second year of my care. I think I got it from H&R
last year. It now is in a 6 inch clay pot and putting out two nice growths
that are starting to harden off.

I see on a website that this species needs a dry cool winter. When they say
dry do they mean no water at all like the Den aggregatum? Full drought or
just dryer than summer watering? How large does this plant have to be before
I can expect a bloom? The new growth for this year look to be about 6-7
inches long.

Thanks,
Gene

Gene,

Some of the other Aussies may like to reply as well.

D. speciosum is a very widespread plant in Oz, rangeing from north east Victoria
to tropical Queensland, with something like 8 varieties identified. In whatever
region, it almost always grows in mountainous areas, usually east side ie
towards our fairly narrow coastal plains, on rock faces or high in trees. Almost
all the varieties strongly prefer good air movement (high trees or cliff faces,
or creek gorges), which typically also provide good humidity. However, our
winters on the east coast are periods of much reduced rainfall - but not full
drought. Hence the standard advice you cite.

My advice would be to water it occasionally, no more than once weekly, but on a
warm day. This assumes a well-drained medium. Light needs are variable,
depending on the variety, but typically good filtered sun.

Flowering? Mature size for varieties ranges from 10-12" th 24" plus, so it's
hard to suggest when yours may bloom. The standard wisdom also suggests most
varieties need a cold snap to stimulate flowering - warm winters are typically
followed by poor blooming.

Because of its size, D. speciosum is usually much longer from seedling to
flowering than most othes Aussie Dens. I have a variety grandiflorum that I
purchased as an advanced seedling in 2004 - I wouldn't expect flowers for at
least a couple of years yet.



On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 01:46:04 GMT, "Gene Schurg"
wrote:

Need some info from the orchid lovers from down under. I have a Den
speciosum that is in the second year of my care. I think I got it from H&R
last year. It now is in a 6 inch clay pot and putting out two nice growths
that are starting to harden off.

I see on a website that this species needs a dry cool winter. When they say
dry do they mean no water at all like the Den aggregatum? Full drought or
just dryer than summer watering? How large does this plant have to be before
I can expect a bloom? The new growth for this year look to be about 6-7
inches long.

Thanks,
Gene

Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.

Gene

Dave has given you some good advice. I had drafted this message before Dave
posted his so there may be some overlap.

There are several varieties or species of D. speciosum (depending on which
authority you listen too) and they can be quite different in size depending
on where in the distribution range they come from.

Their growing conditions also vary depending on where they originate from.
There distribution is from Far North Queensland down to the NSW/Victorian
border so have a climate distribution from tropical to temperate.

The ones from FNQ would experience a dry winter and the ones from the
Southern areas would experience a wetter winter. We just had floods a
couple of weeks ago in the area near the NSW/VIC coastal border so it can
get quite wet during the southern winter. The secret is to grow these in a
well draining medium or mounted, bearing in mind that many grow
lithophytically in nature with just leaf humus around the roots. They are
very cold tolerant and I have mine outdoors all year round. Temperatures
get down to about 3°C over winter on some days.

The size of the canes can also vary from about 30cm (1 foot) to over a meter
(39 inches +) depending on the species/variety.

I have mine mounted together with a stag fern and attached to a brick wall
under a jacaranda tree (deciduous) so it gets shaded during the heat of
summer but gets full sun during winter. The roots have now attached
themselves to the bricks so not sure if this plant will ever be moved again.
The stag keeps the roots moist and cooler during the hot summers and makes a
lovely companion plant. (see photo on ABPO). My plant has got to be well
over 30 years old as I bought it as a mature plant that many years ago. The
flower spikes are just showing now (mid winter - looks like a good year as
we had some really cold days which seem to stimulate flower production) and
usually flower late September (early Spring).

At the ANOS club meetings, people joke about waiting at least 15 years for
seedlings of D. speciosum to flower so not many over 60 year olds buy
seedlings. They want to be alive to see them flower! If yours is in a 6
inch pot I would suggest you have a few more years before you see flowers.
Good luck with your plant of this majestic Australian native. in time, you
will be rewarded with a magnificent display.

~John


"Dave Gillingham" wrote in message
...
Gene,

Some of the other Aussies may like to reply as well.

D. speciosum is a very widespread plant in Oz, rangeing from north east
Victoria
to tropical Queensland, with something like 8 varieties identified. In
whatever
region, it almost always grows in mountainous areas, usually east side ie
towards our fairly narrow coastal plains, on rock faces or high in trees.
Almost
all the varieties strongly prefer good air movement (high trees or cliff
faces,
or creek gorges), which typically also provide good humidity. However,
our
winters on the east coast are periods of much reduced rainfall - but not
full
drought. Hence the standard advice you cite.

My advice would be to water it occasionally, no more than once weekly, but
on a
warm day. This assumes a well-drained medium. Light needs are variable,
depending on the variety, but typically good filtered sun.

Flowering? Mature size for varieties ranges from 10-12" th 24" plus, so
it's
hard to suggest when yours may bloom. The standard wisdom also suggests
most
varieties need a cold snap to stimulate flowering - warm winters are
typically
followed by poor blooming.

Because of its size, D. speciosum is usually much longer from seedling to
flowering than most othes Aussie Dens. I have a variety grandiflorum that
I
purchased as an advanced seedling in 2004 - I wouldn't expect flowers for
at
least a couple of years yet.



On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 01:46:04 GMT, "Gene Schurg"

wrote:

Need some info from the orchid lovers from down under. I have a Den
speciosum that is in the second year of my care. I think I got it from
H&R
last year. It now is in a 6 inch clay pot and putting out two nice
growths
that are starting to harden off.

I see on a website that this species needs a dry cool winter. When they
say
dry do they mean no water at all like the Den aggregatum? Full drought or
just dryer than summer watering? How large does this plant have to be
before
I can expect a bloom? The new growth for this year look to be about 6-7
inches long.

Thanks,
Gene

Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.

Not good, not good. I have a couple of flasks worth of plants of Den
speciosum X Den Ira Butler that I was hoping to start seeing flowers on this
winter. They already are the largest plants in my Den section. Sounds like
it might be a few more years; more repotting and larger pots. My question
is just how cold do they need to get to set spikes. I am growing them in a
greenhouse which does not go below 62 F. The kingianum and its hybrids
bloom fine in this greenhouse. I have a couple of flasks of Den speciosum X
Den Ivory in 3 inch pots and am wondering if I should cut and run. There is
always room for one more plant in the compost pile.

Pat

Thanks all,

I guess I'll just have to be patient. I think the var. I have is
curvicaule.

Pat, pot them up and sell them. There's alway a sucker like me that thinks
he grow them out and wait for the blooms!

Good Growing,
Gene

Rod Venger gave me a seedling many moons ago. It's in a basket, hung up
with the vandas, and growing bigger by the 'bulb (they're at 18"-20" now),
but still no flowers.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
g.com...
Not good, not good. I have a couple of flasks worth of plants of Den
speciosum X Den Ira Butler that I was hoping to start seeing flowers on
this winter. They already are the largest plants in my Den section.
Sounds like it might be a few more years; more repotting and larger pots.
My question is just how cold do they need to get to set spikes. I am
growing them in a greenhouse which does not go below 62 F. The kingianum
and its hybrids bloom fine in this greenhouse. I have a couple of flasks
of Den speciosum X Den Ivory in 3 inch pots and am wondering if I should
cut and run. There is always room for one more plant in the compost pile.

Pat

Ray,

After seeing the pics on abpo I would think it's time for you plant to have
a nice cold winter and dried out. That may be what it takes to make it
bloom.

Gene

"Ray B" wrote in message
news:vursi.8631$xi.4357@trndny03...
Rod Venger gave me a seedling many moons ago. It's in a basket, hung up
with the vandas, and growing bigger by the 'bulb (they're at 18"-20" now),
but still no flowers.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
g.com...
Not good, not good. I have a couple of flasks worth of plants of Den
speciosum X Den Ira Butler that I was hoping to start seeing flowers on
this winter. They already are the largest plants in my Den section.
Sounds like it might be a few more years; more repotting and larger pots.
My question is just how cold do they need to get to set spikes. I am
growing them in a greenhouse which does not go below 62 F. The kingianum
and its hybrids bloom fine in this greenhouse. I have a couple of flasks
of Den speciosum X Den Ivory in 3 inch pots and am wondering if I should
cut and run. There is always room for one more plant in the compost
pile.

Pat

Ray B wrote:
Rod Venger gave me a seedling many moons ago. It's in a basket, hung up
with the vandas, and growing bigger by the 'bulb (they're at 18"-20" now),
but still no flowers.


Does anyone know what's become of the Venger's? I remember them fondly
and often wonder how they are.

Pat, in many areas speciosum & kingianum co-exist & bloom. In fact, there' s a
natural hybrid, Dendrobium x delicatum that is speciosum x kingianum. So, if
your kingianum is blooming there's a good chance conditions are right to bloom
the speciosum hybrid when it's ready. D. Ira Butler is 50% jonesii (biggish),
25% speciosum (big) & 25% tetragonum ("normal" sized). All components are from
Section Dendrocoryne of the Dendrobes, & require broadly similar growing
conditions, though tetragonum typically likes a bit less light. If you keep it
& flower it, it should be rewarding.

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 06:31:46 -0400, "Pat Brennan"
wrote:

Not good, not good. I have a couple of flasks worth of plants of Den
speciosum X Den Ira Butler that I was hoping to start seeing flowers on this
winter. They already are the largest plants in my Den section. Sounds like
it might be a few more years; more repotting and larger pots. My question
is just how cold do they need to get to set spikes. I am growing them in a
greenhouse which does not go below 62 F. The kingianum and its hybrids
bloom fine in this greenhouse. I have a couple of flasks of Den speciosum X
Den Ivory in 3 inch pots and am wondering if I should cut and run. There is
always room for one more plant in the compost pile.

Pat

Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.

Gene, if it's curvicaule, it's from the tropics. Still usually grows in the
mountains, so cool conditions, but doesn't need as much cold as some of the more
southern varieties. Depending on the extent of your interest I could scan a
couple of paged on curvicaule from one of my references & post them here for
you.

Ross Harvey, of Cedarvale Orchids, grows magnificent speciosums. His cultural
notes are at: http://www.cedarvaleorchids.com/culture.html

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 13:38:12 GMT, "Gene Schurg"
wrote:

Thanks all,

I guess I'll just have to be patient. I think the var. I have is
curvicaule.

Pat, pot them up and sell them. There's alway a sucker like me that thinks
he grow them out and wait for the blooms!

Good Growing,
Gene


Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.

I will definitely give it a try, Gene, although I have a hard time
singling-out plants for individual culture.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:7Uusi.6418$2c6.6403@trnddc01...
Ray,

After seeing the pics on abpo I would think it's time for you plant to
have a nice cold winter and dried out. That may be what it takes to make
it bloom.

Gene

"Ray B" wrote in message
news:vursi.8631$xi.4357@trndny03...
Rod Venger gave me a seedling many moons ago. It's in a basket, hung up
with the vandas, and growing bigger by the 'bulb (they're at 18"-20"
now), but still no flowers.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
g.com...
Not good, not good. I have a couple of flasks worth of plants of Den
speciosum X Den Ira Butler that I was hoping to start seeing flowers on
this winter. They already are the largest plants in my Den section.
Sounds like it might be a few more years; more repotting and larger
pots. My question is just how cold do they need to get to set spikes. I
am growing them in a greenhouse which does not go below 62 F. The
kingianum and its hybrids bloom fine in this greenhouse. I have a
couple of flasks of Den speciosum X Den Ivory in 3 inch pots and am
wondering if I should cut and run. There is always room for one more
plant in the compost pile.

Pat

I don't recall a lot of details, but Rod had some sort of cancer that
required the removal and reconstruction of most of his jaw, and I recall
their adult son needing at least one liver (?) transplant, and may even have
died. I do know that they went out of the orchid business citing "other
interests".

The domain is still active, but seems to be the home site of commercial
links of all sorts.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"tenman" wrote in message
...
Ray B wrote:
Rod Venger gave me a seedling many moons ago. It's in a basket, hung up
with the vandas, and growing bigger by the 'bulb (they're at 18"-20"
now), but still no flowers.


Does anyone know what's become of the Venger's? I remember them fondly and
often wonder how they are.

What works for me is to put a blue tag in the pot to indicate "do not
water". Then I group all the dry stuff together on the same shelf. That
group seems to be growing with the nobiles, catesetums, cycnoches, etc.

Gene


"Ray B" wrote in message
news:6XCsi.1845$vW.964@trnddc08...
I will definitely give it a try, Gene, although I have a hard time
singling-out plants for individual culture.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:7Uusi.6418$2c6.6403@trnddc01...
Ray,

After seeing the pics on abpo I would think it's time for you plant to
have a nice cold winter and dried out. That may be what it takes to make
it bloom.

Gene

"Ray B" wrote in message
news:vursi.8631$xi.4357@trndny03...
Rod Venger gave me a seedling many moons ago. It's in a basket, hung up
with the vandas, and growing bigger by the 'bulb (they're at 18"-20"
now), but still no flowers.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
g.com...
Not good, not good. I have a couple of flasks worth of plants of Den
speciosum X Den Ira Butler that I was hoping to start seeing flowers on
this winter. They already are the largest plants in my Den section.
Sounds like it might be a few more years; more repotting and larger
pots. My question is just how cold do they need to get to set spikes.
I am growing them in a greenhouse which does not go below 62 F. The
kingianum and its hybrids bloom fine in this greenhouse. I have a
couple of flasks of Den speciosum X Den Ivory in 3 inch pots and am
wondering if I should cut and run. There is always room for one more
plant in the compost pile.

Pat

Ray B wrote:
I don't recall a lot of details, but Rod had some sort of cancer that
required the removal and reconstruction of most of his jaw, and I recall
their adult son needing at least one liver (?) transplant, and may even have
died. I do know that they went out of the orchid business citing "other
interests".

The domain is still active, but seems to be the home site of commercial
links of all sorts.


Got an e-mail from Rod about 6 months ago. Seems like he has fallen on
pretty hard times (the cancer and the rest of the problems really did a
number on his finances and pretty much the rest of his life, as these
things tend to do). His health is still not very good, but he does
spend a lot of his time on the internet. Not in orchids, though.

I got a lot of plants from him that I still have...

Rob

Knowing not to do it is not the problem. Having the time to spend on
"individuals" is.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:B7Gsi.1$ls4.0@trndny07...
What works for me is to put a blue tag in the pot to indicate "do not
water". Then I group all the dry stuff together on the same shelf. That
group seems to be growing with the nobiles, catesetums, cycnoches, etc.

Gene


"Ray B" wrote in message
news:6XCsi.1845$vW.964@trnddc08...
I will definitely give it a try, Gene, although I have a hard time
singling-out plants for individual culture.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:7Uusi.6418$2c6.6403@trnddc01...
Ray,

After seeing the pics on abpo I would think it's time for you plant to
have a nice cold winter and dried out. That may be what it takes to
make it bloom.

Gene

"Ray B" wrote in message
news:vursi.8631$xi.4357@trndny03...
Rod Venger gave me a seedling many moons ago. It's in a basket, hung
up with the vandas, and growing bigger by the 'bulb (they're at 18"-20"
now), but still no flowers.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
g.com...
Not good, not good. I have a couple of flasks worth of plants of Den
speciosum X Den Ira Butler that I was hoping to start seeing flowers
on this winter. They already are the largest plants in my Den
section. Sounds like it might be a few more years; more repotting and
larger pots. My question is just how cold do they need to get to set
spikes. I am growing them in a greenhouse which does not go below 62
F. The kingianum and its hybrids bloom fine in this greenhouse. I
have a couple of flasks of Den speciosum X Den Ivory in 3 inch pots
and am wondering if I should cut and run. There is always room for
one more plant in the compost pile.

Pat