Hello all!

I am really and truly just starting out, as in no hole as been dug, but the
area where the pond is going has been roughly surveyed. Last spring i built
a small 100 gallon indoor pond, but i did it very quickly with out doing
much research. this time i want to do it right, and i'm trying to figure out
how much money its all going to cost me so i can make a budget. Since i
don't have any sort of hole dug, i can only go by my theoretical dimensions
to guess the volume. My concern right now is pumps (which is better
submersible or not, and how much its going to cost). and as you may have
noticed i'm starting to ramble so i'll cut it short. My questions are,
what's the best way to approximate volume (using some online calculators
i've gotten numbers ranging from 1,500 to 11,000 gallons)? and would anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps, or at least point me in the direction of
finding such information? thank you in advance!

megs

Megan Wilson wrote:

would anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps,

I have a 5000 gallon pond and a submersible pump in my skimmer box. I went
with this because I didn't want to listen to the pump humming while I was
sitting near my pond. Also, when I was investigating, it seemed like you
needed to deal with making sure non-submersible pumps were primed. As it
turns out the latter issue wasn't as involved as I thought. If you could
place you pump away from where you will spend your time, maybe the noise
wouldn't be a factor.

The other issue with submersibles is if they break, will they leak oil - not
good, but I think this is a rare issue with today's pumps. One of the major
factors for us (here in California where we got just finished getting f****d
in the ass by power companies) was power usage. While initially more
expensive, those kilowatt hours add up quickly.


Good luck
Joe



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To figure the gallons of your pond multiply the length X width X depth and
then multiply by 7.48. The result is the gallons. If you have an irregular
shape pond, just measure the area you can square off and the "maximum depth"
and use those figures and it should give you a close estimate (+/-10%).
BK
"joe" wrote in message
...
Megan Wilson wrote:

would anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps,

I have a 5000 gallon pond and a submersible pump in my skimmer box. I went
with this because I didn't want to listen to the pump humming while I was
sitting near my pond. Also, when I was investigating, it seemed like you
needed to deal with making sure non-submersible pumps were primed. As it
turns out the latter issue wasn't as involved as I thought. If you could
place you pump away from where you will spend your time, maybe the noise
wouldn't be a factor.

The other issue with submersibles is if they break, will they leak oil -
not
good, but I think this is a rare issue with today's pumps. One of the
major
factors for us (here in California where we got just finished getting
f****d
in the ass by power companies) was power usage. While initially more
expensive, those kilowatt hours add up quickly.


Good luck
Joe



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-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Budget.....Pond???? hmm I think that is oxymoron....just dig a hole and pour
money into it :-)...but really, I have to agree with Joe, I went with
submersible because I just didn't want to hear the pump, I am sensitive to
low pitched sounds like those of a pump but ultimately, it's a matter of
initial cost vs. operating costs vs. needed flow volume. I have a 5000+
pond running a pump of about 4800gph (@Head) It is costing me about $20 a
month to run but power here is still pretty cheap. You can see my pond at
http://groups.msn.com/TheOldGardenPo...nw?albumlist=2

"Megan Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hello all!

I am really and truly just starting out, as in no hole as been dug, but
the
area where the pond is going has been roughly surveyed. Last spring i
built
a small 100 gallon indoor pond, but i did it very quickly with out doing
much research. this time i want to do it right, and i'm trying to figure
out
how much money its all going to cost me so i can make a budget. Since i
don't have any sort of hole dug, i can only go by my theoretical
dimensions
to guess the volume. My concern right now is pumps (which is better
submersible or not, and how much its going to cost). and as you may have
noticed i'm starting to ramble so i'll cut it short. My questions are,
what's the best way to approximate volume (using some online calculators
i've gotten numbers ranging from 1,500 to 11,000 gallons)? and would
anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps, or at least point me in the direction
of
finding such information? thank you in advance!

megs

Run! Escape! Don't get into this hobby! Flee!

Imagine the hole you are digging. Forget the fish, the water, the liner!
Cut out the middle man! Just dig the whole, and take your cash by the
buckets and throw it into the hole! Forget budget! And if you do a budget,
then multiply whatever you come up by 3, that may be enough to get you
started!

But should in case you do go through with this potentially addictive hobby,
then be prepared to bond with your pond like a cheating spouse!

Looking forward to hearing from you soon about green algae, string algae,
dying Koi, Heron, Ick, Fluke, Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, Kh, Gh, Spawning,
Koi food, .....on and on and on!

I really really do love my pond and Koi, but like a weed grass they have
invaded my life!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Megan Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hello all!

I am really and truly just starting out, as in no hole as been dug, but
the
area where the pond is going has been roughly surveyed. Last spring i
built
a small 100 gallon indoor pond, but i did it very quickly with out doing
much research. this time i want to do it right, and i'm trying to figure
out
how much money its all going to cost me so i can make a budget. Since i
don't have any sort of hole dug, i can only go by my theoretical
dimensions
to guess the volume. My concern right now is pumps (which is better
submersible or not, and how much its going to cost). and as you may have
noticed i'm starting to ramble so i'll cut it short. My questions are,
what's the best way to approximate volume (using some online calculators
i've gotten numbers ranging from 1,500 to 11,000 gallons)? and would
anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps, or at least point me in the direction
of
finding such information? thank you in advance!

megs

I guess by budget, i actually was thinking about how much i would have to
start out spending, not how much i would need to limit myself to. And i
can't run away, i've got a serious case of overcrowding in my small indoor
pond and i'm too attached to my fishies to give them away, so bigger outdoor
pond it is. so, thank you for the warning, but i think its too late for me,
perhaps we can save someone else?

megs

"Just Me "Koi"" wrote in message
...
Run! Escape! Don't get into this hobby! Flee!

Imagine the hole you are digging. Forget the fish, the water, the liner!
Cut out the middle man! Just dig the whole, and take your cash by the
buckets and throw it into the hole! Forget budget! And if you do a
budget,
then multiply whatever you come up by 3, that may be enough to get you
started!

But should in case you do go through with this potentially addictive
hobby,
then be prepared to bond with your pond like a cheating spouse!

Looking forward to hearing from you soon about green algae, string algae,
dying Koi, Heron, Ick, Fluke, Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, Kh, Gh, Spawning,
Koi food, .....on and on and on!

I really really do love my pond and Koi, but like a weed grass they have
invaded my life!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Megan Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hello all!

I am really and truly just starting out, as in no hole as been dug, but
the
area where the pond is going has been roughly surveyed. Last spring i
built
a small 100 gallon indoor pond, but i did it very quickly with out doing
much research. this time i want to do it right, and i'm trying to figure
out
how much money its all going to cost me so i can make a budget. Since i
don't have any sort of hole dug, i can only go by my theoretical
dimensions
to guess the volume. My concern right now is pumps (which is better
submersible or not, and how much its going to cost). and as you may have
noticed i'm starting to ramble so i'll cut it short. My questions are,
what's the best way to approximate volume (using some online calculators
i've gotten numbers ranging from 1,500 to 11,000 gallons)? and would
anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps, or at least point me in the direction
of
finding such information? thank you in advance!

megs

When it comes to pumps, I think the main difference in external and
submersible pumps comes in what size is the pond. For small ponds, the
submersible pumps are best because you can get pumps with small flow rates,
but for large ponds, any of the submersible pumps that have high flow rates
also have large electric demand.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Megan Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hello all!

I am really and truly just starting out, as in no hole as been dug, but
the
area where the pond is going has been roughly surveyed. Last spring i
built
a small 100 gallon indoor pond, but i did it very quickly with out doing
much research. this time i want to do it right, and i'm trying to figure
out
how much money its all going to cost me so i can make a budget. Since i
don't have any sort of hole dug, i can only go by my theoretical
dimensions
to guess the volume. My concern right now is pumps (which is better
submersible or not, and how much its going to cost). and as you may have
noticed i'm starting to ramble so i'll cut it short. My questions are,
what's the best way to approximate volume (using some online calculators
i've gotten numbers ranging from 1,500 to 11,000 gallons)? and would
anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps, or at least point me in the direction
of
finding such information? thank you in advance!

megs

I am in process of upgrading from a 200 gallon pre-formed pond to a
1500 gallon epdm lined pond. I started this process on memorial day
and have been doing a ton of research on filters, skimmers and pumps.
My dad got me started pond'ering' about 15 years ago while I was a
teenager and I have been using submersible pumps until about 10 days
ago when my new Sequence External Centrifugal Pump (4200gph) arrived.
This pump states that is has a max watt usage of 180 watts which is
one of the best I could find. It is actually uses less energy than my
previous 1400 gph submersible pump. I am very impressed with how
quiet the pump is. Now that it is housed in a box slightly below
ground level I have no sound at all, that is until the roar of my
waterfall takes over. As for cost, I spent $230 on the pump and I
bought it online - Free Delivery/No Tax. One last note - I started
with a budget and I gave up for sanity reasons - (One 15ft x 18ft
liner for the pond, One 5ft x 20ft for the stream, One 8ft x 12ft
liner for the waterfall, 5000lbs of colorado moss rock, 2000lbs river
flats, 3 yards of river rock, Cedar Wood for 4ft bridge) – I have been
documenting the process and I will complete my website after I stop
spending all my free time on the pond, and of course spend a little qt
with the wife.

http://members.cox.net/bokowski/

I am in process of upgrading from a 200 gallon preformed pond to a
1500 gallon epdm lined pond. I started this process on memorial day
and have been doing a ton of research on filters, skimmers and pumps.
My dad got me started pond'ering' about 15 years ago while I was a
teenager and I have been using submersible pumps until about 10 days
ago when my new Sequence External Centrifugal Pump (4200gph) arrived.
This pump states that is has a max watt usage of 180 watts which is
one of the best I could find. It is actually uses less energy than my
previous 1400 gph submersible pump. I am very impressed with how
quiet the pump is. Now that it is housed in a box slightly below
ground level I have no sound at all, that is until the roar of my
waterfall takes over. As for cost, I spent $230 on the pump and I
bought it online - Free Delivery/No Tax. One last note - I started
with a budget and I gave up for sanity reasons - ( One 15ft x 18ft
liner for the pond, One 5ft x 20ft for the stream, One 8ft x 12ft
liner for the waterfall, 5000lbs of colorado moss rock, 2000lbs river
flats, 3 yards of river rock, Cedar Wood for a foot bridge) Anyway, I
am documenting the process and I will update my site to share my
experiences after I get some free time and spend a little qt with the
wife.
http://members.cox.net/bokowski

"Megan Wilson" wrote in message ...
Hello all!

I am really and truly just starting out, as in no hole as been dug, but the
area where the pond is going has been roughly surveyed. Last spring i built
a small 100 gallon indoor pond, but i did it very quickly with out doing
much research. this time i want to do it right, and i'm trying to figure out
how much money its all going to cost me so i can make a budget. Since i
don't have any sort of hole dug, i can only go by my theoretical dimensions
to guess the volume. My concern right now is pumps (which is better
submersible or not, and how much its going to cost). and as you may have
noticed i'm starting to ramble so i'll cut it short. My questions are,
what's the best way to approximate volume (using some online calculators
i've gotten numbers ranging from 1,500 to 11,000 gallons)? and would anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps, or at least point me in the direction of
finding such information? thank you in advance!

megs

From what site did you buy the pump?
"Chad" wrote in message
m...
I am in process of upgrading from a 200 gallon preformed pond to a
1500 gallon epdm lined pond. I started this process on memorial day
and have been doing a ton of research on filters, skimmers and pumps.
My dad got me started pond'ering' about 15 years ago while I was a
teenager and I have been using submersible pumps until about 10 days
ago when my new Sequence External Centrifugal Pump (4200gph) arrived.
This pump states that is has a max watt usage of 180 watts which is
one of the best I could find. It is actually uses less energy than my
previous 1400 gph submersible pump. I am very impressed with how
quiet the pump is. Now that it is housed in a box slightly below
ground level I have no sound at all, that is until the roar of my
waterfall takes over. As for cost, I spent $230 on the pump and I
bought it online - Free Delivery/No Tax. One last note - I started
with a budget and I gave up for sanity reasons - ( One 15ft x 18ft
liner for the pond, One 5ft x 20ft for the stream, One 8ft x 12ft
liner for the waterfall, 5000lbs of colorado moss rock, 2000lbs river
flats, 3 yards of river rock, Cedar Wood for a foot bridge) Anyway, I
am documenting the process and I will update my site to share my
experiences after I get some free time and spend a little qt with the
wife.
http://members.cox.net/bokowski

"Megan Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hello all!

I am really and truly just starting out, as in no hole as been dug, but
the
area where the pond is going has been roughly surveyed. Last spring i
built
a small 100 gallon indoor pond, but i did it very quickly with out doing
much research. this time i want to do it right, and i'm trying to figure
out
how much money its all going to cost me so i can make a budget. Since i
don't have any sort of hole dug, i can only go by my theoretical
dimensions
to guess the volume. My concern right now is pumps (which is better
submersible or not, and how much its going to cost). and as you may have
noticed i'm starting to ramble so i'll cut it short. My questions are,
what's the best way to approximate volume (using some online calculators
i've gotten numbers ranging from 1,500 to 11,000 gallons)? and would
anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps, or at least point me in the direction
of
finding such information? thank you in advance!

megs

I purchased my pump from www.123ponds.com, there price is pretty good
and they have the information on energy consumption and flow rate vs.
rise for each pump. There were quick on the shipping/delivery and I
they were responsive to my customer service inquiry for my tracking
numbers.

There are some great posting in this news group to help you calculate
your $ savings if you buy a good pump. The pump I almost bought at a
local store had a consumption of 800 watts. The is a great discussion
thread called " Pump Advice Please" that may help you with
calculating energy consumption whether its a pump rated on Amps or
Watts.

Happy Ponding.

"Megan Wilson" wrote in message ...
From what site did you buy the pump?
"Chad" wrote in message
m...
I am in process of upgrading from a 200 gallon preformed pond to a
1500 gallon epdm lined pond. I started this process on memorial day
and have been doing a ton of research on filters, skimmers and pumps.
My dad got me started pond'ering' about 15 years ago while I was a
teenager and I have been using submersible pumps until about 10 days
ago when my new Sequence External Centrifugal Pump (4200gph) arrived.
This pump states that is has a max watt usage of 180 watts which is
one of the best I could find. It is actually uses less energy than my
previous 1400 gph submersible pump. I am very impressed with how
quiet the pump is. Now that it is housed in a box slightly below
ground level I have no sound at all, that is until the roar of my
waterfall takes over. As for cost, I spent $230 on the pump and I
bought it online - Free Delivery/No Tax. One last note - I started
with a budget and I gave up for sanity reasons - ( One 15ft x 18ft
liner for the pond, One 5ft x 20ft for the stream, One 8ft x 12ft
liner for the waterfall, 5000lbs of colorado moss rock, 2000lbs river
flats, 3 yards of river rock, Cedar Wood for a foot bridge) Anyway, I
am documenting the process and I will update my site to share my
experiences after I get some free time and spend a little qt with the
wife.
http://members.cox.net/bokowski

"Megan Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hello all!

I am really and truly just starting out, as in no hole as been dug, but
the
area where the pond is going has been roughly surveyed. Last spring i
built
a small 100 gallon indoor pond, but i did it very quickly with out doing
much research. this time i want to do it right, and i'm trying to figure
out
how much money its all going to cost me so i can make a budget. Since i
don't have any sort of hole dug, i can only go by my theoretical
dimensions
to guess the volume. My concern right now is pumps (which is better
submersible or not, and how much its going to cost). and as you may have
noticed i'm starting to ramble so i'll cut it short. My questions are,
what's the best way to approximate volume (using some online calculators
i've gotten numbers ranging from 1,500 to 11,000 gallons)? and would
anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps, or at least point me in the direction
of
finding such information? thank you in advance!

megs

Megan Wilson wrote:

Hello all!

I am really and truly just starting out, as in no hole as been dug, but the
area where the pond is going has been roughly surveyed. Last spring i built
a small 100 gallon indoor pond, but i did it very quickly with out doing
much research. this time i want to do it right, and i'm trying to figure out
how much money its all going to cost me so i can make a budget. Since i
don't have any sort of hole dug, i can only go by my theoretical dimensions
to guess the volume. My concern right now is pumps (which is better
submersible or not, and how much its going to cost). and as you may have
noticed i'm starting to ramble so i'll cut it short. My questions are,
what's the best way to approximate volume (using some online calculators
i've gotten numbers ranging from 1,500 to 11,000 gallons)? and would anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps, or at least point me in the direction of
finding such information? thank you in advance!

Try these guys for pumps. They have useful info and pretty good prices:

http://www.pumpworld.net

Joe



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Forget the initial purchase price of the pump; just get one which has the
lowest power consumption by output and workout how much pa it is going to
cost you to run it. Put that into your choice equation. Assume the cost of
power is going to ride over the next three years.
I use submersible solids handling pumps by Oase; don't want the additional
work of cleaning pre filters they are also amongst the lowest on power
consumption to output.
Roddy

"Megan Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hello all!

I am really and truly just starting out, as in no hole as been dug, but
the
area where the pond is going has been roughly surveyed. Last spring i
built
a small 100 gallon indoor pond, but i did it very quickly with out doing
much research. this time i want to do it right, and i'm trying to figure
out
how much money its all going to cost me so i can make a budget. Since i
don't have any sort of hole dug, i can only go by my theoretical
dimensions
to guess the volume. My concern right now is pumps (which is better
submersible or not, and how much its going to cost). and as you may have
noticed i'm starting to ramble so i'll cut it short. My questions are,
what's the best way to approximate volume (using some online calculators
i've gotten numbers ranging from 1,500 to 11,000 gallons)? and would
anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps, or at least point me in the direction
of
finding such information? thank you in advance!

megs

Well, being sorta outdoorsy I took a project on myself, built a small 500
gallon pond into our front and poured a patio around the house sideof it and
a bluff of boulders and olive trees on the frontside to make a waterfall
into it and provide privacy from the street. Built the pond out of concrete
pretty much like you do a swimming pool. Plastered a coat of mortar on the
inside. I use a cal pump, submers. and it pumps about 400 GPH to the top of
the waterfall, about 5 feet.
The fish love it, the plants love it, the crusteans love it, never have any
problems. Only that it leaks, splashes and evaporates at the rate of 10 to
12 gallons a day. I rectified this by adding a drip irrigation to one of the
water plants that I matched the drip to the rate of leak so now I never have
to change the water out or add any to it. It has a complete change at about
40 days.
"Megan Wilson" wrote in message
...
I guess by budget, i actually was thinking about how much i would have to
start out spending, not how much i would need to limit myself to. And i
can't run away, i've got a serious case of overcrowding in my small indoor
pond and i'm too attached to my fishies to give them away, so bigger
outdoor
pond it is. so, thank you for the warning, but i think its too late for
me,
perhaps we can save someone else?

megs

"Just Me "Koi"" wrote in message
...
Run! Escape! Don't get into this hobby! Flee!

Imagine the hole you are digging. Forget the fish, the water, the
liner!
Cut out the middle man! Just dig the whole, and take your cash by the
buckets and throw it into the hole! Forget budget! And if you do a
budget,
then multiply whatever you come up by 3, that may be enough to get you
started!

But should in case you do go through with this potentially addictive
hobby,
then be prepared to bond with your pond like a cheating spouse!

Looking forward to hearing from you soon about green algae, string
algae,
dying Koi, Heron, Ick, Fluke, Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, Kh, Gh,
Spawning,
Koi food, .....on and on and on!

I really really do love my pond and Koi, but like a weed grass they have
invaded my life!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Megan Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hello all!

I am really and truly just starting out, as in no hole as been dug,
but
the
area where the pond is going has been roughly surveyed. Last spring i
built
a small 100 gallon indoor pond, but i did it very quickly with out
doing
much research. this time i want to do it right, and i'm trying to
figure
out
how much money its all going to cost me so i can make a budget. Since
i
don't have any sort of hole dug, i can only go by my theoretical
dimensions
to guess the volume. My concern right now is pumps (which is better
submersible or not, and how much its going to cost). and as you may
have
noticed i'm starting to ramble so i'll cut it short. My questions are,
what's the best way to approximate volume (using some online
calculators
i've gotten numbers ranging from 1,500 to 11,000 gallons)? and would
anyone
be willing to provide me with the pros and cons between the
submersible/non-submersible pumps, or at least point me in the
direction
of
finding such information? thank you in advance!

megs

DaveO wrote:

Forget the initial purchase price of the pump; just get one which has the
lowest power consumption by output and workout how much pa it is going to
cost you to run it. Put that into your choice equation. Assume the cost of
power is going to ride over the next three years.
I use submersible solids handling pumps by Oase; don't want the additional
work of cleaning pre filters they are also amongst the lowest on power
consumption to output.
Roddy

Roddy,

I was looking at those as I'm in the market also. The GPH for the
wattage looks great, but I'm concerned that they don't have the power
to pump 25' (1 1/2" flex pvc) from the skimmer to the waterfall
(Biofalls filter type) and have anything left over for the waterfall.
What say you about that?

Dave


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