In article ,
Wilson wrote:

Kelly, sigh...one more time, I asked her to give me a price for a specific
liner...she agreed that she'd get a price for a specific size liner, she
then priced me a roll of liner and tried to pass it off as a 4'x8' price.
Your bread analogy doesn't work well...I go into the store WANTING a whole
loaf (LOL) I didn't walk into her store wanting a whole roll of liner. But
the point is she lied about it, she called me back and said the price of a
4'x8' liner was $96.00.

No lie. That's exactly what she was planning to charge you for a 4X8
liner; that was her price. If you don't get it, that's OK, I can deal
with it.

In the meantime, thanks for the tip... I'll investigate
justliners.com for my next liner as you recommend, and stay AWAY from
any dealer asking 4-5X the going rate.

Kelly

she probably checked her supplyers to find one that would sell the cut
to size peice
paid them their price pluss S&H and added her markup


John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Kelly, sigh...one more time, I asked her to give me a price for a specific
liner...she agreed that she'd get a price for a specific size liner, she
then priced me a roll of liner and tried to pass it off as a 4'x8' price.
Your bread analogy doesn't work well...I go into the store WANTING a whole
loaf (LOL) I didn't walk into her store wanting a whole roll of liner. But
the point is she lied about it, she called me back and said the price of a
4'x8' liner was $96.00. Period...end of discussion.

~Wilson~



there is now way a whole roll of epdm sells for only 96.00
wholesale it is about 15 c a sq ft and comes in a 20x100 ft roll
--





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Bill, I initially had the same thought you did about a special order, until
it occurred to me that the store owner could have ordered from the same
place Wilson did! Even allowing for a small mark-up, the price would have
been reasonable.

Or, if she did not have a source for such a special item, she should have
honestly said that it was not cost-efficient for her to research prices for
something for which she was not likely to have any other customers.

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


"PlainBill" wrote in message
...
I'd like to point out a few things you perhaps failed to consider.
Your local place most likely does not stock pond liner. To fill your
request, she would have to special order a roll of material, then keep
the balance on hand until another buyer came along. All the while she
has the money tied up in inventory, AND the remainder of the roll
taking up space in the stockroom. This is why I seldom ask a business
to special order items. If they hope to hope to stay in business,
they must charge you for the cost of the item, plus the time it takes
to locate it, plus the shipping, plus their normal markup.

I also disagree with your title - there is nothing unethical in a
shopkeeper trying to make a profit. If she doesn't, she won't be in
business very long.

That said, there is no excuse for taking two weeks to call you with
the price.

PlainBill

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:12:18 -0500, "Wilson"
wrote:

I recently bought a 5.5' x 15' liner from justliners.com to build my
waterfall and was pleased to say the least with the price($23.95 +
shipping
$8.00 UPS), it was delivered in approx. 4 days and the quality is more
than
I expected.

A week or two before I visited my local (I wouldn't call them a pond
supply
store), more of a rock/paver/statuary/but we also order pond supplies
from
Aquascape kind of place....went in and asked her to get me prices on a
liner,pump and rocks.....2 weeks later! she calls me back after I already
had finished my waterfall and gives me prices on a liner: 4'x8'
45mil-$96.00!! I told her basically that she had rocks in her head and
that
I now understood why nobody even knew of this place even though it had
been
open since last October....and that she would never get a dime from me.
What
I imagine she was doing is charging me for a roll of liner and cutting my
piece from it.

What I've learned so far about buying supplies for ponds is you must look
around, most places prices are way out of wack on most thing...example:
I
visited a pond supplier in a nearby town that carried barley(my mom
wanted
me to pick her up some for her pond) $45.00 for what amounted to a 1/2
pillow size bag of barley! Unreal.

I've only checked a few places and websites so far but I'd have to say
that
justliners.com is probably the best and cheapest place to go.

My .02 Just felt like venting....sorry, we now return you to your
regular
programming.

~Wilson~

In article ,
Wilson wrote:

Kelly, sigh...one more time, I asked her to give me a price for a specific
liner...she agreed that she'd get a price for a specific size liner, she
then priced me a roll of liner and tried to pass it off as a 4'x8' price.
Your bread analogy doesn't work well...I go into the store WANTING a whole
loaf (LOL) I didn't walk into her store wanting a whole roll of liner. But
the point is she lied about it, she called me back and said the price of a
4'x8' liner was $96.00.

No lie. That's exactly what she was planning to charge you for a 4X8
liner; that was her price. If you don't get it, that's OK, I can deal
with it.

In the meantime, thanks for the tip... I'll investigate
justliners.com for my next liner as you recommend, and stay AWAY from
any dealer asking 4-5X the going rate.

Kelly

john rutz wrote:
she probably checked her supplyers to find one that would sell the cut
to size peice
paid them their price pluss S&H and added her markup

I havent bought epdm in a couple years I called three local suplyers
prices ranged from 21 - 32 for that peice



John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com



--





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Anne, there is a saying, "Time is money". The typical shopkeeper has
many things to do. Finding the lowest cost for a special order item
is pretty low on the list of priorities for most of them.

As I see it, the shopkeeper was negligent - she should have gotten
back to Wilson within a day. Two weeks is unreasonable for a task
that should have taken no more than 10 minutes. However, that is not
unethical. And quoting a price several times higher than an e-store
charges is not unethical - we have no idea what she would have to pay
for it!

PlainBill

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:02:19 GMT, "Anne Lurie"
wrote:

Bill, I initially had the same thought you did about a special order, until
it occurred to me that the store owner could have ordered from the same
place Wilson did! Even allowing for a small mark-up, the price would have
been reasonable.

Or, if she did not have a source for such a special item, she should have
honestly said that it was not cost-efficient for her to research prices for
something for which she was not likely to have any other customers.

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


"PlainBill" wrote in message
.. .
I'd like to point out a few things you perhaps failed to consider.
Your local place most likely does not stock pond liner. To fill your
request, she would have to special order a roll of material, then keep
the balance on hand until another buyer came along. All the while she
has the money tied up in inventory, AND the remainder of the roll
taking up space in the stockroom. This is why I seldom ask a business
to special order items. If they hope to hope to stay in business,
they must charge you for the cost of the item, plus the time it takes
to locate it, plus the shipping, plus their normal markup.

I also disagree with your title - there is nothing unethical in a
shopkeeper trying to make a profit. If she doesn't, she won't be in
business very long.

That said, there is no excuse for taking two weeks to call you with
the price.

PlainBill

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:12:18 -0500, "Wilson"
wrote:

I recently bought a 5.5' x 15' liner from justliners.com to build my
waterfall and was pleased to say the least with the price($23.95 +
shipping
$8.00 UPS), it was delivered in approx. 4 days and the quality is more
than
I expected.

A week or two before I visited my local (I wouldn't call them a pond
supply
store), more of a rock/paver/statuary/but we also order pond supplies
from
Aquascape kind of place....went in and asked her to get me prices on a
liner,pump and rocks.....2 weeks later! she calls me back after I already
had finished my waterfall and gives me prices on a liner: 4'x8'
45mil-$96.00!! I told her basically that she had rocks in her head and
that
I now understood why nobody even knew of this place even though it had
been
open since last October....and that she would never get a dime from me.
What
I imagine she was doing is charging me for a roll of liner and cutting my
piece from it.

What I've learned so far about buying supplies for ponds is you must look
around, most places prices are way out of wack on most thing...example:
I
visited a pond supplier in a nearby town that carried barley(my mom
wanted
me to pick her up some for her pond) $45.00 for what amounted to a 1/2
pillow size bag of barley! Unreal.

I've only checked a few places and websites so far but I'd have to say
that
justliners.com is probably the best and cheapest place to go.

My .02 Just felt like venting....sorry, we now return you to your
regular
programming.

~Wilson~

Wilson, sorry my friend, but I fail to see what was unethical in what she
did. Yes it's crummy that she took two weeks to reply back to you. But let's
face it, special order items are pretty low on the priority list of things a
store owner must worry about.

Admittedly it only takes 10 minutes to fax/email/call the supplier and ask
about the price of a custom liner, and she should have had the price ready
for you in a day or two. Let's pretend she was extremely agressive in her
attempt to find a cheaper supplier for a single order liner, how much profit
would she have made? Compare that to the time and resources she spent
looking for that, rather then just calling her standard supplier and asking
them for the price on it.

Given the standard retail markup is 2 times wholesale, if custom cut liner
is $32 (including shipping), retail would be about $64, given it's a niche
product in a specialty shop, the markups are higher, so $90 is reasonable.

Go to http://maps.yahoo.com and look at where justliners is located.
35507B Clearpond Road, Shawnee, OK 74801
I bet justliners doesn't have, the lease overhead that your local store
does.

When you go on vacation, and visit an amusement park, the t-shirts sold
there are often about $25 each. Old Navy sells t-shirts, 3 for $10. Do you
consider that unethical? The lesson to be learnt here is America is based on
a free market economy, if someone wants to sell liners for $100 they can,
you can buy it, or you can find someone else to sell you the same item for
less.

Sameer

"Wilson" wrote in message
...
I recently bought a 5.5' x 15' liner from justliners.com to build my
waterfall and was pleased to say the least with the price($23.95 +
shipping
$8.00 UPS), it was delivered in approx. 4 days and the quality is more
than
I expected.

A week or two before I visited my local (I wouldn't call them a pond
supply
store), more of a rock/paver/statuary/but we also order pond supplies from

Aquascape kind of place....went in and asked her to get me prices on a
liner,pump and rocks.....2 weeks later! she calls me back after I already
had finished my waterfall and gives me prices on a liner: 4'x8'
45mil-$96.00!! I told her basically that she had rocks in her head and
that
I now understood why nobody even knew of this place even though it had
been
open since last October....and that she would never get a dime from me.
What
I imagine she was doing is charging me for a roll of liner and cutting my
piece from it.

What I've learned so far about buying supplies for ponds is you must look
around, most places prices are way out of wack on most thing...example: I
visited a pond supplier in a nearby town that carried barley(my mom wanted
me to pick her up some for her pond) $45.00 for what amounted to a 1/2
pillow size bag of barley! Unreal.

I've only checked a few places and websites so far but I'd have to say
that
justliners.com is probably the best and cheapest place to go.

My .02 Just felt like venting....sorry, we now return you to your regular
programming.

~Wilson~

Wilson, sorry my friend, but I fail to see what was unethical in what she
did. Yes it's crummy that she took two weeks to reply back to you. But let's
face it, special order items are pretty low on the priority list of things a
store owner must worry about.

Admittedly it only takes 10 minutes to fax/email/call the supplier and ask
about the price of a custom liner, and she should have had the price ready
for you in a day or two. Let's pretend she was extremely agressive in her
attempt to find a cheaper supplier for a single order liner, how much profit
would she have made? Compare that to the time and resources she spent
looking for that, rather then just calling her standard supplier and asking
them for the price on it.

Given the standard retail markup is 2 times wholesale, if custom cut liner
is $32 (including shipping), retail would be about $64, given it's a niche
product in a specialty shop, the markups are higher, so $90 is reasonable.

Go to http://maps.yahoo.com and look at where justliners is located.
35507B Clearpond Road, Shawnee, OK 74801
I bet justliners doesn't have, the lease overhead that your local store
does.

When you go on vacation, and visit an amusement park, the t-shirts sold
there are often about $25 each. Old Navy sells t-shirts, 3 for $10. Do you
consider that unethical? The lesson to be learnt here is America is based on
a free market economy, if someone wants to sell liners for $100 they can,
you can buy it, or you can find someone else to sell you the same item for
less.

Sameer

"Wilson" wrote in message
...
I recently bought a 5.5' x 15' liner from justliners.com to build my
waterfall and was pleased to say the least with the price($23.95 +
shipping
$8.00 UPS), it was delivered in approx. 4 days and the quality is more
than
I expected.

A week or two before I visited my local (I wouldn't call them a pond
supply
store), more of a rock/paver/statuary/but we also order pond supplies from

Aquascape kind of place....went in and asked her to get me prices on a
liner,pump and rocks.....2 weeks later! she calls me back after I already
had finished my waterfall and gives me prices on a liner: 4'x8'
45mil-$96.00!! I told her basically that she had rocks in her head and
that
I now understood why nobody even knew of this place even though it had
been
open since last October....and that she would never get a dime from me.
What
I imagine she was doing is charging me for a roll of liner and cutting my
piece from it.

What I've learned so far about buying supplies for ponds is you must look
around, most places prices are way out of wack on most thing...example: I
visited a pond supplier in a nearby town that carried barley(my mom wanted
me to pick her up some for her pond) $45.00 for what amounted to a 1/2
pillow size bag of barley! Unreal.

I've only checked a few places and websites so far but I'd have to say
that
justliners.com is probably the best and cheapest place to go.

My .02 Just felt like venting....sorry, we now return you to your regular
programming.

~Wilson~

"skooch" wrote in message
...
Hey BV

I thought you lived around "Baltmore". From the sounds of all your
problems getting things UD think you lived the "backwoods" and a trip to
town was a weekly event and 40 miles away.

You would. I don't know if I am not looking hard enough or what.

Did you ever get your potash? (0-0-50)

I have been too busy to look lately. I have not hit any real garden shops. I
have checked the Lowes, Home Depot and a few nursuries to no avail.

My local farm co-op dad (20) 5# bags on the shelf today, when I went for
mine.

If you need it what say we trade some of your Duckweed,. I can't find it
around here, every body seems to sell only Azolla.

Sure.
snip

BV.

"Aaron Friesen" wrote in message
news:AqWRa.91748$Ph3.10807@sccrnsc04...
snip
Two options.

First, many U-Haul places sell and install hitches. I've used them and
don't think you can beat the price by much. The installation was not a
major part of the cost either, and they did a very professional job,
using real wiring harnesses rather than just splicing in to tail-light
wires.

Our U-Haul place does not sell nor install them. I finally found a shop in
Randallstown, MD that sells hitchs and had one in stock for my van. The
wifey-poo is picking it up today.

Second, hitches are one of those things that the vast majority of car
dealers just won't do themselves. If you have a hitch installed by a
dealer, they actually farm it out to an independent installer (and
charge your for this "service" ;^). However, I have found that they
will usually tell you who they use and many times the installer will
give you the "dealer cost" if you mention that is how you found them.


We bought the van with a tow package so I have the harness. A friend of mine
runs a shop and is going to install it for me. We don't plan to tow
anything, we just want to get a hitch shelf, so the wiring is not critical.

BV.

"John Hines" wrote in message
...
snip
Reese is a big name in hitches, but the on-line sites seem to be people
that sell them, rather than a corporate site, with a pointer to dealers.

I found a bunch of on-line places, but I need this done by Wednesday. We
have a big trip planned for the weekend, and I need this done ASAP.

BV.

"Wilson" wrote in message
...
snip
Kelly, sigh...one more time, I asked her to give me a price for a
specific
liner...she agreed that she'd get a price for a specific size liner, she
then priced me a roll of liner and tried to pass it off as a 4'x8' price.
Your bread analogy doesn't work well...I go into the store WANTING a
whole
loaf (LOL) I didn't walk into her store wanting a whole roll of liner.
But
the point is she lied about it, she called me back and said the price of a
4'x8' liner was $96.00. Period...end of discussion.

Wilson, you didn't say that at anytime in this thread, except for the theory
in your original post:

"I imagine she was doing is charging me for a roll of liner and cutting my
piece from it."

Did she say she was getting you a roll, or did you imagine that? I am
confused.

BV.

"Wilson" wrote in message
...
snip
Kelly, sigh...one more time, I asked her to give me a price for a
specific
liner...she agreed that she'd get a price for a specific size liner, she
then priced me a roll of liner and tried to pass it off as a 4'x8' price.
Your bread analogy doesn't work well...I go into the store WANTING a
whole
loaf (LOL) I didn't walk into her store wanting a whole roll of liner.
But
the point is she lied about it, she called me back and said the price of a
4'x8' liner was $96.00. Period...end of discussion.

Wilson, you didn't say that at anytime in this thread, except for the theory
in your original post:

"I imagine she was doing is charging me for a roll of liner and cutting my
piece from it."

Did she say she was getting you a roll, or did you imagine that? I am
confused.

BV.

Wilson, you didn't say that at anytime in this thread, except for the
theory
in your original post:

"I imagine she was doing is charging me for a roll of liner and cutting my
piece from it."

Did she say she was getting you a roll, or did you imagine that? I am
confused.

BV.

We agreed she would get a price on a 4x8....I then ASS U ME d that she was
probably getting a roll for herself and cutting my piece off of that.

~Wilson~