"Judi9000" wrote in message
...
You know, after reading your messages I decided to check out some other
koi and
gf foods. I noticed that the first ingredient in all of them was wheat and
the
second corn. What food do you use that doesn't have the grains as the
first 2
ingredients? I also read somewhere that wheat germ based is best for the
fish
when the temp.drops. Judi
=============
Here again Judi,.... not everyone takes this advice. Myself and my friends
feed our fish the SAME foods until the water gets around 55 F or lower -
then we stop feeding them altogether. No need to buy different foods.

--
Carol.....
Don't go for looks; they can deceive.
Don't go for wealth; even that fades away.
Go for someone who makes you smile,
because it takes only a smile to
make a dark day seem bright.
Find the one that makes your heart smile.
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~

"[-M_a_t_r_i_x-]" wrote in message
...
Every time I tried to feed my koi the cat food. I always got an "oily
rainbow sheen" on top of the water.
Anyone else get that?
==========================
I had this happen one time with an expensive fishy smelling koi food. The
fish loved this food as they love anything I toss in there at feeding time.
I honestly can't remember which brand it was as it was 4 or 5 years ago.
The oily sheen disappeared a few hours after feeding them. It did no harm
that I could see.
--
Carol.....
Don't go for looks; they can deceive.
Don't go for wealth; even that fades away.
Go for someone who makes you smile,
because it takes only a smile to
make a dark day seem bright.
Find the one that makes your heart smile.
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~

Judi,

First of all, you have seen a number of people chime in and tell you that
they are feeding Cat food to their fish with great results. Personally,
over the years I have feed my fish Cat food, but in the last 10 years I have
stuck with foods that are aquaculture related for feeding my stock.

If you are going to feed Cat food make sure you make it a size that the fish
can eat easily. Personally, I would look for a cat food that is of the
softer variety, mainly because it would be easier for Goldfish to eat,
should they get a hold of a larger piece.

It is interesting to note that Ingrid uses Jo Ann and Steve as examples.
These people are LFS owners, or were, I understand they are getting out of
the business, but she mentions that they use Ogata and Rangen feeds to feed
their KOI. It is interesting to point out that she uses the figures for
retail cost per year for feeding the fish, but I imagine that even though
she is using retail costs it is probably based on the retail cost of the
food bought in bulk rather than buying the food one kilo at a time. This
means that in bulk the retail cost works out to $3.84 per pound instead of
$13.57 a pound if you buy it just a kilo at a time, like many people would
for their fish.

Another point to make is that Rangen does not make a food for KOI or
Goldfish. This means that out of the 34 foods that Rangen is producing
they are using a food not designated for KOI and Goldfish, which in the past
she has derided people in the past for using Catfish foods for KOI, which
happens to be a food they do make. The other foods produced by Rangen are
meant for Salmon, Trout, Talipia and Shrimp and are not blended for KOI and
Goldfish.

Plus Ingrid tells us that Steve dumps a pint a food in every night to feed
their fish. This goes against, even her message of small multiple meals
through out the day, which is actually a more prudent way of feeding your
fish. So it looks like even Jo Ann and Steve don't feed their fish
correctly according to what Ingrid always tells every one else do because of
how and what they feed.

So what can be learned from this, you have to remember that Goldfish and KOI
are omnivores which allows them to acquire their nutrients from a variety of
food sources. The mantra that Ingrid brings us about high protein, low carb
is just wrong. Nothing supports this, in fact, every thing in research
supports 28 to 32% protein being the best for KOI and Goldfish. In fact,
for wintering fish the KOI specialist all tout increase carbs just before
winter to allow fat build up to sustain the fish through the cold winter
months when no additional feeding is done by the owner.

Obviously what works for Jo Ann and Steve works for them, so you need to
find out what works for you. But there are not set rules. If you read the
back files you will find people feeding dog food, cat food, catfish food and
all with good results. Most of the time when people start out it is not
expensive enough to worry about the price of the food you are feeding, but
as you acquire fish and your numbers go up food prices can get astronomical.
I, myself, buy a top grade Goldfish food, but I buy it bulk so my price is
substantially lower than the $12 to $14 per pound it normally costs,
depending on where you get it and if your get it locally or via mail order
when you have to also add in to shipping and handling costs on the per pound
rate.

Ingrid would have you believe if you read all of her responses on this one
thread alone that aquaculture farmers don't care about what they feed their
stock. That is a bunch of Horse Crap. Virtually all of the Aquaculture
feeds that I have researched are made to exacting and precise methods and
have the same bells and whistles in them that any high quality fish food
would have including the fancy Japanese brands.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"Judi9000" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the info. I was just curious because birds fly off with pieces
of
our dogs food and sometimes they drop it in my ponds. The fish seem to
love it.
I also have a friend that knows someone who feeds his koi cat food. Is it
ok to
sometimes give the fish dog or cat food or to avoid it altogether? Also my
fish
love oranges and lemons. Judi

Tom,

What about the idea that cat food can swell incredibly in water, not a real
problem for cats, but Koi having almost no stomach to speak of, isn't that a
real risk ?

Can I also ask why you decided to stick to aquaculture food now ?

Theo

"Tom La Bron" schreef in bericht
...
Judi,

First of all, you have seen a number of people chime in and tell you that
they are feeding Cat food to their fish with great results. Personally,
over the years I have feed my fish Cat food, but in the last 10 years I
have
stuck with foods that are aquaculture related for feeding my stock.

Yup - I got that when I used trout chow (Purina) - its the oil in the food
leeching out
Gale :~)

"[-M_a_t_r_i_x-]" wrote in message
...
Every time I tried to feed my koi the cat food. I always got an "oily
rainbow sheen" on top of the water.
Anyone else get that?

Very interesting. Thanks.

Theo,

The swelling of the food was the main reason I suggested that the food used
be broken up into small pieces and/or soft foods used. When I was trying
this I used "Meow Mix" which is a soft food.

The reason I stick with Aquaculture foods is because they have a lot more of
the vitamins needed by fish than foods for land animals and they usually
also have a higher vit C content than land animal foods. Another thing is
that most of your Aquaculture foods are now making sure that Omega-three
additives are making it into their foods. But when all is said and done the
main reason is that most of your Aquaculture foods are a lot cheaper when
bought in bulk. The amounts of food that I feed I certainly can't afford
$14 a pound much less $25 a pound.

Tom L.L.
"Theo van Daele" wrote in message
news
Tom,

What about the idea that cat food can swell incredibly in water, not a
real
problem for cats, but Koi having almost no stomach to speak of, isn't that
a
real risk ?

Can I also ask why you decided to stick to aquaculture food now ?

Theo

"Tom La Bron" schreef in bericht
...
Judi,

First of all, you have seen a number of people chime in and tell you
that
they are feeding Cat food to their fish with great results. Personally,
over the years I have feed my fish Cat food, but in the last 10 years I
have
stuck with foods that are aquaculture related for feeding my stock.