Sounds like you got what we had. Somewhere near us it hit -19*F as the all
time low for our area. We had -5.5*F on our memory thermometer as the
lowest. The snow on the ground during this time has saved a lot of plants,
not to mention my ponds.

We're now up to 34*F today. ~ jan

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:56:50 -0500, "Janet" wrote:

Your temps dropped below 0*F Jan... We have been living through an arctic
air mass with temps of -18*F to -20*F with winchills in the -30* to -40*
mark. Even with my pump going full tilt my stream froze solid. ( I also
had a bell fountain going and it froze solid and cracked with the pump
going... Temps are supposed to rise for the next few days to gasp 32-34*F
so I'm hoping to get some stuff thawed and checked and hopefully back up and
running.
Janet who'll have to remember the leaf screen next fall! ;o)

Sounds like you got what we had. Somewhere near us it hit -19*F as the all
time low for our area. We had -5.5*F on our memory thermometer as the
lowest. The snow on the ground during this time has saved a lot of plants,
not to mention my ponds.

We're now up to 34*F today. ~ jan

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:56:50 -0500, "Janet" wrote:

Your temps dropped below 0*F Jan... We have been living through an arctic
air mass with temps of -18*F to -20*F with winchills in the -30* to -40*
mark. Even with my pump going full tilt my stream froze solid. ( I also
had a bell fountain going and it froze solid and cracked with the pump
going... Temps are supposed to rise for the next few days to gasp 32-34*F
so I'm hoping to get some stuff thawed and checked and hopefully back up and
running.
Janet who'll have to remember the leaf screen next fall! ;o)

I feel guilty to do this to you, but I have no choice! Allow me this one
given the fire and winds, and other bad stuff we have had to endure! So
here I go

over 80 degrees here yesterday in Rancho Cucamonga, with projections of some
90 degrees by next Thursday!
Now that said, I am sure we are in store for some earthquake or....?

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
Sounds like you got what we had. Somewhere near us it hit -19*F as the all
time low for our area. We had -5.5*F on our memory thermometer as the
lowest. The snow on the ground during this time has saved a lot of plants,
not to mention my ponds.

We're now up to 34*F today. ~ jan

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:56:50 -0500, "Janet"
wrote:

Your temps dropped below 0*F Jan... We have been living through an
arctic
air mass with temps of -18*F to -20*F with winchills in the -30* to -40*
mark. Even with my pump going full tilt my stream froze solid. ( I
also
had a bell fountain going and it froze solid and cracked with the pump
going... Temps are supposed to rise for the next few days to gasp
32-34*F
so I'm hoping to get some stuff thawed and checked and hopefully back up
and
running.
Janet who'll have to remember the leaf screen next fall! ;o)

I feel guilty to do this to you, but I have no choice! Allow me this one
given the fire and winds, and other bad stuff we have had to endure! So
here I go

over 80 degrees here yesterday in Rancho Cucamonga, with projections of some
90 degrees by next Thursday!
Now that said, I am sure we are in store for some earthquake or....?

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
Sounds like you got what we had. Somewhere near us it hit -19*F as the all
time low for our area. We had -5.5*F on our memory thermometer as the
lowest. The snow on the ground during this time has saved a lot of plants,
not to mention my ponds.

We're now up to 34*F today. ~ jan

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:56:50 -0500, "Janet"
wrote:

Your temps dropped below 0*F Jan... We have been living through an
arctic
air mass with temps of -18*F to -20*F with winchills in the -30* to -40*
mark. Even with my pump going full tilt my stream froze solid. ( I
also
had a bell fountain going and it froze solid and cracked with the pump
going... Temps are supposed to rise for the next few days to gasp
32-34*F
so I'm hoping to get some stuff thawed and checked and hopefully back up
and
running.
Janet who'll have to remember the leaf screen next fall! ;o)

Has it occurred to anyone else here that this thread could converge on the
recurring "Pond Heater" threads???

Just *think* of the possibilities!

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


"Mike Patterson" wrote

So - I'm gathering no one who follows this group has ever heard of
anything like this?

I'm actually quite surprised at everyone's surprise, as it seems so
obvious to me, and I know this group has more than it's share of
creative thinkers.

I guess I'll make sure to take pics of everything as I go, and success
or failure, I'll put it on my web server.

I've followed this group off and on for about 4-5 years now in "wish"
mode, and I finally got the opportunity to build my own pond.

Now that it's in, I'm looking to make it into my vision of a place to
relax, socialize, and have just a touch of "ooooh, that's cool!"

It's going to take anothe 2-3 years to get everything the way I want
it, but I'm well on the way.


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

Has it occurred to anyone else here that this thread could converge on the
recurring "Pond Heater" threads???

Just *think* of the possibilities!

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


"Mike Patterson" wrote

So - I'm gathering no one who follows this group has ever heard of
anything like this?

I'm actually quite surprised at everyone's surprise, as it seems so
obvious to me, and I know this group has more than it's share of
creative thinkers.

I guess I'll make sure to take pics of everything as I go, and success
or failure, I'll put it on my web server.

I've followed this group off and on for about 4-5 years now in "wish"
mode, and I finally got the opportunity to build my own pond.

Now that it's in, I'm looking to make it into my vision of a place to
relax, socialize, and have just a touch of "ooooh, that's cool!"

It's going to take anothe 2-3 years to get everything the way I want
it, but I'm well on the way.


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

Mike S., you may be the guy to back this up -- as I recall, propane gas is
*heavier* than air, so any leakage would not disperse into the air, but
would instead hang at ground level waiting for the next ignition source?

I thought I read about a worst-case scenario of propane gas back in the mid
80's when I lived in New Jersey. It was apparently illegal for movers to
transport filled propane [BBQ] tanks, so soime idiot simply opened up the
valve to let the propane out. The gas, being heavy, simply flowed along the
ground until a neighbor unknowingly ignited his own BBQ -- and, foom! At
least one child was seriously burned (to the best of my recollection --
but I'd be unwilling to put this theory to the test).

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC





"Chagoi" wrote in message
...
Anne Lurie wrote:
What happens if the fire goes out -- after all, we are talking about
*water* -- wouldn't you then just have a gas leak?

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


That is part of what I am trying to stress to Mike P. You cannot simply
stick a pipe or tube in the pond,
connect it to a gas source and light it. It take pilots, orifices,
burners, valves, and SAFEty devices.

Mike S.
Chagoi
http://ourkoipond.com


"Mike Patterson" wrote in
message ...

Really like my new pond, finally seem to have the surrounding drainage
problem and the Mysterious Water Loss After Heavy Rain problem fixed,
so now I'm thinking...

How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.

I wouldn't run it all the time, but it'd be a cool effect for parties.

Would there be any adverse repercussions to the fish?

Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

Anne Lurie wrote:
Mike S., you may be the guy to back this up -- as I recall, propane gas is
*heavier* than air, so any leakage would not disperse into the air, but
would instead hang at ground level waiting for the next ignition source?

Yes! exactly. Anne Lurie

That is what is explained in my last post. Reposted below. It will act
just like the gasoline.
I said this will take place using the gas at 110#'s but, it can happen
at any pressure.
It stands to reason that the more gas, the bigger the
KAAABOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Repost:

It is EXXXTREMELY DANGEROUS, and at that pressure it will not ignite at
first, but when the mixture 10 to 20 feet away gets to the proper
proportions, and you attempt to light it. It will ignite.

But the results will be a fireball of disastrous proportions. It will
blow like a quart of gasoline that was tossed on the ground and lit 30
seconds later. A big WOOSH, FIREBALL, and a FLASHOVER across a very
large area.


I thought I read about a worst-case scenario of propane gas back in the mid
80's when I lived in New Jersey. It was apparently illegal for movers to
transport filled propane [BBQ] tanks, so soime idiot simply opened up the
valve to let the propane out. The gas, being heavy, simply flowed along the
ground until a neighbor unknowingly ignited his own BBQ -- and, foom! At
least one child was seriously burned (to the best of my recollection --
but I'd be unwilling to put this theory to the test).

Like I said before If it wasn't so cold and everything was frozen I
could show some controlled examples.

************************************************** ************************************************** *******************************************
Propane gas can be used to power products such as:

* Barbeques
* Emergency generators
* Pool heaters
* Clothes dryers

Natural gas is the most common type of gas used in households. It is
used to power household appliances such as:

* Stoves
* Heaters
* Fireplaces
* Clothes dryers

Propane gas, and natural gas are relatively safe if handled in the
appropriate manner. However, if handled improperly, gas can be deadly.

Causes of Gas Fires & Explosions

Some of the more common root causes of gas fires and explosions include:

* Improper handling - people who are not careful when handling
gases are often to blame for gas fires and explosions.

* Failure to follow safety codes - guidelines for the safe use of
gases are issued by the manufacturers of products and by U.S. government
agencies. If these guidelines are not followed there is an increased
risk of gas fire or explosion.

* Defective products - although manufacturers test their products
for safety defects before they are offered to the public, some products
may contain a defect that can lead to a gas fire or explosion. Among
products that can lead to gas fires, propane barbeques are the most
commonly recalled.

* Improper application - people try to create dazzling effects in
their PONDS, without following logical guidelines and advice necessary
to ensure proper operation. If these guidelines are not followed there
is an increased risk of gas fire or explosion. 8~)

8~) ( SORRY, I couldn't resist the last spoof on root causes)


Mike S.
Chagoi
http://ourkoipond.com

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC

Anne Lurie wrote:

Mike S., you may be the guy to back this up -- as I recall, propane gas is
*heavier* than air, so any leakage would not disperse into the air, but
would instead hang at ground level waiting for the next ignition source?


A repost from friday also explains this effect also.

Having the gas bubble up from under the water will not work. You must
maintain a constant stream of gas.
The volume of gas can vary, but the supply cannot be broken.

Repost:
The only way the bubble method MAY work is if you have a standing pilot.
To help maintain the flame.
Even then you will probably have a very unstable flame.
(ex. fireball... steady pilot flame... fireball...steady pilot
flame...Fireball...fireball... fireball...steady flame...etc, etc, etc...
You get the picture...


Mike S.
Chagoi
http://ourkoipond.com

You are authorized to take a research expedition to Orlando ... look for
Fantasmic! at Disney MGM

Parts of the show include a flames on water effect ... natural gas or
propane I suspect. Very cool, in a
warm-you-up-in-January-with-radiant-heat way.


Link here...
http://www.wdisneyw.co.uk/mgmfant.html

By the way, your just going to get the technical aspect ... stay off the
rides!


"Mike Patterson" wrote in
message ...
Really like my new pond, finally seem to have the surrounding drainage
problem and the Mysterious Water Loss After Heavy Rain problem fixed,
so now I'm thinking...

How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.

I wouldn't run it all the time, but it'd be a cool effect for parties.

Would there be any adverse repercussions to the fish?

Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.