Really like my new pond, finally seem to have the surrounding drainage
problem and the Mysterious Water Loss After Heavy Rain problem fixed,
so now I'm thinking...

How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.

I wouldn't run it all the time, but it'd be a cool effect for parties.

Would there be any adverse repercussions to the fish?

Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

Sounds fine, as long as you like BBQd fish :-)

--
Ken Russell

"Mike Patterson" wrote in
message ...
| Really like my new pond, finally seem to have the surrounding drainage
| problem and the Mysterious Water Loss After Heavy Rain problem fixed,
| so now I'm thinking...
|
| How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
| put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
| pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.
|
| I wouldn't run it all the time, but it'd be a cool effect for parties.
|
| Would there be any adverse repercussions to the fish?
|
| Mike
| Mike Patterson
| Please remove the spamtrap to email me.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 8/01/2004

So you just came back from Las Vegas and saw Mirage?

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Mike Patterson" wrote in
message ...
Really like my new pond, finally seem to have the surrounding drainage
problem and the Mysterious Water Loss After Heavy Rain problem fixed,
so now I'm thinking...

How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.

I wouldn't run it all the time, but it'd be a cool effect for parties.

Would there be any adverse repercussions to the fish?

Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 03:43:53 GMT, "Just Me \"Koi\""
wrote:

So you just came back from Las Vegas and saw Mirage?

Now that you mention it, I forgot that I did see something like that
about 4 years ago in LV, but don't remember too much about it.

Maybe that's where my subconscious got it from.


Mike

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:25:57 +1100, "Ken Russell"
wrote:

Sounds fine, as long as you like BBQd fish :-)

Well, the pond is about 1300 gallons, and heat rises, and it's
outside, so maybe it wouldn't raise the water temp much. I hope.

I think I'll do some experimentation first with a #10 washtub. See if
the water temp goes up, play with the effect, etc.

Might make a good bit for the web page too.

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

Mike Patterson wrote:

How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.

One would need an automatic sparker to ignite the gas bubbles, and if
the concentration isn't enough, it is just a gas leak.

I wouldn't run it all the time, but it'd be a cool effect for parties.

Why not floating candles?

Xref: kermit rec.ponds:137318

How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.

Does natural gas contain sulfur? If so, I seem to recall something
about Sulfur Dioxide (poison) or Hydrogen Sulfide (rotten egg smell)
being a possible byproduct when mixed with water. I'm sure some of
our chemistry experts will chime in on this one, as I've forgotten
much more about chemistry than I remember.

Jim
Zone 8a - Dallas, Texas
Pond, Veggie Filter, Pond Maintenance & Pond Tour Pics:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dallas75248

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:15:31 -0600, John Hines
wrote:

Mike Patterson wrote:

How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.

One would need an automatic sparker to ignite the gas bubbles, and if
the concentration isn't enough, it is just a gas leak.

I wouldn't run it all the time, but it'd be a cool effect for parties.

Why not floating candles?

'Cause I don't want no cutesy namby-pamby girly thing, I'm going for
-cool- not -cute-. :-)

But I appreciate the thought.

I already have a gas grill spark igniter I've been playing with, I
could just mount it on a 5' stick to light the flame.


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:15:02 -0500
Mike Patterson wrote:

Really like my new pond, finally seem to have the surrounding drainage
problem and the Mysterious Water Loss After Heavy Rain problem fixed,
so now I'm thinking...

How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.

I wouldn't run it all the time, but it'd be a cool effect for parties.

Would there be any adverse repercussions to the fish?

Mike

I think the bubbles would be too intermittent to hold the flame unless
you were running more gas than you'd care to. (Unless you use a bubble
diffuser?) Maybe run the pipe almost to the surface so there's more of
a steady gas stream? That'd cut down on the water/gas interaction, too,
in case of any adverse reactions with the pond environment.

Cybe R. Wizard -/wants/ to see it in action!
--
Unofficial "Wizard of Odds," A.H.P.
Original PORG "Water Wizard," R.P.
"Wize(ned) Wizard," A.P.F-P-Y.
Barely Tolerated Wizard, A.J.L & A.A.L

Mike Patterson wrote:

On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:25:57 +1100, "Ken Russell"
wrote:


Sounds fine, as long as you like BBQd fish :-)


Well, the pond is about 1300 gallons, and heat rises, and it's
outside, so maybe it wouldn't raise the water temp much. I hope.


Mike

I put a concrete pad and gas line in next to where I am putting the new
pond in spring. I will be able to sit
in front of the campfire and watch the flames reflect off the pond and
the waterfall.

Here are some pics of the first design made from scrap parts.

http://ourkoipond.com/Fire1.jpg
http://ourkoipond.com/Fire2.jpg
http://ourkoipond.com/Fire3.jpg
http://ourkoipond.com/Fire4.jpg
http://ourkoipond.com/Fire5.jpg
http://ourkoipond.com/Fire6.jpg


I also thought of putting one in the center of the 24' dia. area of the
new 12,000gal. pond.

I put a pdf file on my website so you can check out the gas Heat~N~Glo
Campfire base Retail Price $260.00
http://ourkoipond.com/Patio Campfire.pdf

You can build your own stone base around it or add their Rock Ring Fire
Pit Surround: Retail $210.00
See
http://www.heatnglo-lifestyle.com/cu...rePitSpecs.pdf

This is a little too big for your 1300 gal pond, the fire base is 14"
square and the stone ring is 22" dia X 8" high.
But it's a thought.


Disclaimer == I have not, nor will I ever receive any compensation for
this recommendation.

CHAGOI
HTTP://OURKOIPOND.COM

Jim wrote:
How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.


Does natural gas contain sulfur? If so, I seem to recall something
about Sulfur Dioxide (poison) or Hydrogen Sulfide (rotten egg smell)
being a possible byproduct when mixed with water. I'm sure some of
our chemistry experts will chime in on this one, as I've forgotten
much more about chemistry than I remember.

Jim
Zone 8a - Dallas, Texas
Pond, Veggie Filter, Pond Maintenance & Pond Tour Pics:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dallas75248

ELEMENTS OF COMBUSTION OF NATURAL GAS

1 ft3 natural gas + 10 ft3 air + flame =
8 ft3 nitrogen +1 ft3 carbon dioxide + 2 ft3 water vapor


Gas + Air = Nitrogen + Carbon Dioxide + Water Vapor

NO Sulfur

Chagoi

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:15:02 -0500
Mike Patterson wrote:


Really like my new pond, finally seem to have the surrounding drainage
problem and the Mysterious Water Loss After Heavy Rain problem fixed,
so now I'm thinking...

How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.

I wouldn't run it all the time, but it'd be a cool effect for parties.

Would there be any adverse repercussions to the fish?

Mike


I think the bubbles would be too intermittent to hold the flame unless
you were running more gas than you'd care to. (Unless you use a bubble
diffuser?) Maybe run the pipe almost to the surface so there's more of
a steady gas stream? That'd cut down on the water/gas interaction, too,
in case of any adverse reactions with the pond environment.

Cybe R. Wizard -/wants/ to see it in action!


LPG forms a flammable mixture when mixed with air.

The flammable range at ambient temperature and pressure extends between
approximately 2 % of the vapour in air
at its lower limit and approximately 10 % of the vapour in air at its
upper limit. Within this range there is a risk
of ignition.

Outside this range any mixture is either too weak or too rich to
propagate flame.
However, over-rich mixtures can become hazardous when diluted with air
and will also burn at the interface with air.


Air/Gas required for combustion (m3 to burn 1 m3 of gas)

Butane 30:1 Propane 24 :1 Natural Gas 10:1

Chagoi
http://ourkoipond.com

You are my kind of Dude, Dude!

Fire? Who is afraid of fire! Not you!

Actually I think it is a great idea, only that I am not masculine enough to
mess with gas or electricity!

For it to really look cool, the nozzle will have to be hidden, and the gas
flow will have to be substantial enough to flood the surface of the water
and then be ignite and sustain the burn! You said it best that you will
need to play with the gas nozzle, fire extinguisher, scotched Koi, first aid
kit, and one touch dial to the paramedics and the fire department.

If you pull it off though, I will be the first in line to emulate you!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Mike Patterson" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:15:31 -0600, John Hines
wrote:

Mike Patterson wrote:

How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.

One would need an automatic sparker to ignite the gas bubbles, and if
the concentration isn't enough, it is just a gas leak.

I wouldn't run it all the time, but it'd be a cool effect for parties.

Why not floating candles?

'Cause I don't want no cutesy namby-pamby girly thing, I'm going for
-cool- not -cute-. :-)

But I appreciate the thought.

I already have a gas grill spark igniter I've been playing with, I
could just mount it on a 5' stick to light the flame.


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 08:45:01 GMT
"Just Me \"Koi\"" wrote:

If you pull it off though, I will be the first in line to emulate you!

DANG, I must be getting old.
I read that as, "...immolate you."

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Unofficial "Wizard of Odds," A.H.P.
Original PORG "Water Wizard," R.P.
"Wize(ned) Wizard," A.P.F-P-Y.
Barely Tolerated Wizard, A.J.L & A.A.L

NO Sulfur

Isn't Mercaptan used to provide the odor for natural gas? If so, it
contains sulfur.

What is Mercaptan?
Natural gas in its native state is colorless and odorless. Mercaptan
is the additive that is added to natural gas to make it easier to
detect in case of a leak. The most important thing to know about
mercaptan is that it stinks. Some people compare it to the smell of
rotten eggs.

In a concentrated form, its smell is almost unbearable. And it takes
only a few parts per million of mercaptan to give natural gas a smell.
That is precisely why we add it to natural gas. If we did not add
mercaptan, it would be hard for you to know that unlit natural gas was
coming from your stove after you left the valve turned on. And leaks
from furnaces and hot water heaters would be nearly impossible to
detect without expensive equipment. So mercaptan's smell is a very
valuable safety feature.

Mercaptans contain sulfur. That's what makes them smell. The kind we
use blends well with natural gas and, in a gaseous state, has much the
same properties as natural gas, so it will also rise and dissipate
with natural gas.

There are other uses for mercaptans in industry, including jet fuel,
pharmaceuticals and livestock feed additives. They are used in many
chemical plants. Mercaptans are less corrosive and less toxic than
similar sulfur compounds found naturally in rotten eggs, onions,
garlic, skunks, and, of course, bad breath. In other word, forms of
mercaptan can be found in things that smell.

Source:
http://www.columbiagaspamd.com/commu.../mercaptan.htm

Jim
Zone 8a - Dallas, Texas
Pond, Veggie Filter, Pond Maintenance & Pond Tour Pics:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dallas75248

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 01:56:33 -0500, in rec.ponds you wrote:

Jim wrote:
How about if I run black gas pipe out to the the back end of the pond,
put on a valve there, then something like icemaker tubing into the
pond so that gas bubbles up near the center, then light it.


Does natural gas contain sulfur? If so, I seem to recall something
about Sulfur Dioxide (poison) or Hydrogen Sulfide (rotten egg smell)
being a possible byproduct when mixed with water. I'm sure some of
our chemistry experts will chime in on this one, as I've forgotten
much more about chemistry than I remember.

Jim
Zone 8a - Dallas, Texas
Pond, Veggie Filter, Pond Maintenance & Pond Tour Pics:
http://community.webshots.com/user/dallas75248

ELEMENTS OF COMBUSTION OF NATURAL GAS

1 ft3 natural gas + 10 ft3 air + flame =
8 ft3 nitrogen +1 ft3 carbon dioxide + 2 ft3 water vapor


Gas + Air = Nitrogen + Carbon Dioxide + Water Vapor

NO Sulfur

Chagoi