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#46
10-02-2004, 05:34 PM
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Salt in a Nutshell
yes, of course the sodium chloride works better and is cheaper and more extensively
used. I wouldnt think of using stuff made for walks in the water my fish are in. The kind of rock salt used for water softeners is for human consumption, dont get the stuff sold for walks in that either. There should be sufficient calcium in the water to act as a buffer, and better to use organic dolomitic limestone to bring calcium up than calcium chloride. Dolomitic limestone has both calcium and magnesium, provides a good buffer. You are right, prophylactic efficacy of low levels of salt is in stimulating the slime coat. It is much better for the fish to fix high nitrites with water changes!! I tend to think of my small and overstocked pond as more similar to hauling tanks than large clay bottom ponds where they are raised. Besides, most of the aquaculture people like Dr. Ruth Floyd and Jo Ann Burke also recommend the low level salt for ponds and fish tanks. I am a microbiologist. If there are salt resistant bugs out there not using salt isnt going to "force" them to revert to salt sensitive. It is like saying not using an antibiotic is going to result in bacteria becoming sensitive again. Maybe in a couple hundred years, but not in our lifetime, nor the lifetime of the fish. My fish were raised in ponds where salt was used at low levels. My fish "come" with salt resistant whatever and my not using salt isnt going to change that at all. In the mean time my fish are healthier and more able to throw off problems because I add a bit of salt to my otherwise salt free lake water. wow. that is interesting about the San Diego water supply, but not that surprising. Actually, with that amount of salt in the water already adding more is not really all that necessary either. Ingrid Hal wrote: I didn't know that, but wouldn't the sodium chloride work as well as the calcium chloride? I had a bag of calcium chloride once but I spread it on the walk to melt the ice. It never occurred to me to use it in a pond. I don't see a relationship between the oxygen level and salt concentration. I guessed the increased salt was to stimulate the slime coat and help prevent swapping of parasites during the trip in such a confined puddle. Is there another reason? Yes, I read a couple things about that too and it sounds reasonable to me. I hope my adding a bit of salt (.1%) every winter doesn't cause such a condition in my pond, but I'm still learning and if it does I'll have to deal with it when and if it happens. I believe it was someone in the San Diego Koi Club that said they have a natural concentration of about .04% salt in the water. Hal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
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#47
10-02-2004, 06:03 PM
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Salt in a Nutshell
yes, of course the sodium chloride works better and is cheaper and more extensively
used. I wouldnt think of using stuff made for walks in the water my fish are in. The kind of rock salt used for water softeners is for human consumption, dont get the stuff sold for walks in that either. There should be sufficient calcium in the water to act as a buffer, and better to use organic dolomitic limestone to bring calcium up than calcium chloride. Dolomitic limestone has both calcium and magnesium, provides a good buffer. You are right, prophylactic efficacy of low levels of salt is in stimulating the slime coat. It is much better for the fish to fix high nitrites with water changes!! I tend to think of my small and overstocked pond as more similar to hauling tanks than large clay bottom ponds where they are raised. Besides, most of the aquaculture people like Dr. Ruth Floyd and Jo Ann Burke also recommend the low level salt for ponds and fish tanks. I am a microbiologist. If there are salt resistant bugs out there not using salt isnt going to "force" them to revert to salt sensitive. It is like saying not using an antibiotic is going to result in bacteria becoming sensitive again. Maybe in a couple hundred years, but not in our lifetime, nor the lifetime of the fish. My fish were raised in ponds where salt was used at low levels. My fish "come" with salt resistant whatever and my not using salt isnt going to change that at all. In the mean time my fish are healthier and more able to throw off problems because I add a bit of salt to my otherwise salt free lake water. wow. that is interesting about the San Diego water supply, but not that surprising. Actually, with that amount of salt in the water already adding more is not really all that necessary either. Ingrid Hal wrote: I didn't know that, but wouldn't the sodium chloride work as well as the calcium chloride? I had a bag of calcium chloride once but I spread it on the walk to melt the ice. It never occurred to me to use it in a pond. I don't see a relationship between the oxygen level and salt concentration. I guessed the increased salt was to stimulate the slime coat and help prevent swapping of parasites during the trip in such a confined puddle. Is there another reason? Yes, I read a couple things about that too and it sounds reasonable to me. I hope my adding a bit of salt (.1%) every winter doesn't cause such a condition in my pond, but I'm still learning and if it does I'll have to deal with it when and if it happens. I believe it was someone in the San Diego Koi Club that said they have a natural concentration of about .04% salt in the water. Hal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
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#48
10-02-2004, 06:03 PM
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Salt in a Nutshell
yes, of course the sodium chloride works better and is cheaper and more extensively
used. I wouldnt think of using stuff made for walks in the water my fish are in. The kind of rock salt used for water softeners is for human consumption, dont get the stuff sold for walks in that either. There should be sufficient calcium in the water to act as a buffer, and better to use organic dolomitic limestone to bring calcium up than calcium chloride. Dolomitic limestone has both calcium and magnesium, provides a good buffer. You are right, prophylactic efficacy of low levels of salt is in stimulating the slime coat. It is much better for the fish to fix high nitrites with water changes!! I tend to think of my small and overstocked pond as more similar to hauling tanks than large clay bottom ponds where they are raised. Besides, most of the aquaculture people like Dr. Ruth Floyd and Jo Ann Burke also recommend the low level salt for ponds and fish tanks. I am a microbiologist. If there are salt resistant bugs out there not using salt isnt going to "force" them to revert to salt sensitive. It is like saying not using an antibiotic is going to result in bacteria becoming sensitive again. Maybe in a couple hundred years, but not in our lifetime, nor the lifetime of the fish. My fish were raised in ponds where salt was used at low levels. My fish "come" with salt resistant whatever and my not using salt isnt going to change that at all. In the mean time my fish are healthier and more able to throw off problems because I add a bit of salt to my otherwise salt free lake water. wow. that is interesting about the San Diego water supply, but not that surprising. Actually, with that amount of salt in the water already adding more is not really all that necessary either. Ingrid Hal wrote: I didn't know that, but wouldn't the sodium chloride work as well as the calcium chloride? I had a bag of calcium chloride once but I spread it on the walk to melt the ice. It never occurred to me to use it in a pond. I don't see a relationship between the oxygen level and salt concentration. I guessed the increased salt was to stimulate the slime coat and help prevent swapping of parasites during the trip in such a confined puddle. Is there another reason? Yes, I read a couple things about that too and it sounds reasonable to me. I hope my adding a bit of salt (.1%) every winter doesn't cause such a condition in my pond, but I'm still learning and if it does I'll have to deal with it when and if it happens. I believe it was someone in the San Diego Koi Club that said they have a natural concentration of about .04% salt in the water. Hal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
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#49
10-02-2004, 09:56 PM
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Salt in a Nutshell
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#50
10-02-2004, 10:07 PM
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Salt in a Nutshell
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#51
10-02-2004, 11:27 PM
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Salt in a Nutshell
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#52
10-02-2004, 11:32 PM
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Salt in a Nutshell
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#53
10-02-2004, 11:34 PM
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Salt in a Nutshell
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#54
11-02-2004, 01:17 AM
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Salt in a Nutshell
Ingrid,
Dr. Ruth Floyd has never suggested salt in back yard ponds or fish tanks. It would be nice if you stopped putting words in to other peoples mouths. Tom L.L. ------------------------------------------- wrote in message ... yes, of course the sodium chloride works better and is cheaper and more extensively used. I wouldnt think of using stuff made for walks in the water my fish are in. The kind of rock salt used for water softeners is for human consumption, dont get the stuff sold for walks in that either. There should be sufficient calcium in the water to act as a buffer, and better to use organic dolomitic limestone to bring calcium up than calcium chloride. Dolomitic limestone has both calcium and magnesium, provides a good buffer. You are right, prophylactic efficacy of low levels of salt is in stimulating the slime coat. It is much better for the fish to fix high nitrites with water changes!! I tend to think of my small and overstocked pond as more similar to hauling tanks than large clay bottom ponds where they are raised. Besides, most of the aquaculture people like Dr. Ruth Floyd and Jo Ann Burke also recommend the low level salt for ponds and fish tanks. I am a microbiologist. If there are salt resistant bugs out there not using salt isnt going to "force" them to revert to salt sensitive. It is like saying not using an antibiotic is going to result in bacteria becoming sensitive again. Maybe in a couple hundred years, but not in our lifetime, nor the lifetime of the fish. My fish were raised in ponds where salt was used at low levels. My fish "come" with salt resistant whatever and my not using salt isnt going to change that at all. In the mean time my fish are healthier and more able to throw off problems because I add a bit of salt to my otherwise salt free lake water. wow. that is interesting about the San Diego water supply, but not that su rprising. Actually, with that amount of salt in the water already adding more is not really all that necessary either. Ingrid Hal wrote: I didn't know that, but wouldn't the sodium chloride work as well as the calcium chloride? I had a bag of calcium chloride once but I spread it on the walk to melt the ice. It never occurred to me to use it in a pond. I don't see a relationship between the oxygen level and salt concentration. I guessed the increased salt was to stimulate the slime coat and help prevent swapping of parasites during the trip in such a confined puddle. Is there another reason? Yes, I read a couple things about that too and it sounds reasonable to me. I hope my adding a bit of salt (.1%) every winter doesn't cause such a condition in my pond, but I'm still learning and if it does I'll have to deal with it when and if it happens. I believe it was someone in the San Diego Koi Club that said they have a natural concentration of about .04% salt in the water. Hal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
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#55
11-02-2004, 01:26 AM
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Salt in a Nutshell
Hal,
Ingrid is a microbiologist, but she has never done anything or published any thing that has to do with microbiology and goldfish. She has only been keeping Goldfish for about 8 years. Tom L.L. ------------------------------------------ "Hal" wrote in message ... On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:43:43 GMT, wrote: I am a microbiologist. Yes Maam!  I know who you are and I am familiar with Pure Gold and I appreciate the valued advice you share with all of us here. Regards, Hal |
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#56
11-02-2004, 01:41 AM
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Salt in a Nutshell
Ingrid,
Dr. Ruth Floyd has never suggested salt in back yard ponds or fish tanks. It would be nice if you stopped putting words in to other peoples mouths. Tom L.L. ------------------------------------------- wrote in message ... yes, of course the sodium chloride works better and is cheaper and more extensively used. I wouldnt think of using stuff made for walks in the water my fish are in. The kind of rock salt used for water softeners is for human consumption, dont get the stuff sold for walks in that either. There should be sufficient calcium in the water to act as a buffer, and better to use organic dolomitic limestone to bring calcium up than calcium chloride. Dolomitic limestone has both calcium and magnesium, provides a good buffer. You are right, prophylactic efficacy of low levels of salt is in stimulating the slime coat. It is much better for the fish to fix high nitrites with water changes!! I tend to think of my small and overstocked pond as more similar to hauling tanks than large clay bottom ponds where they are raised. Besides, most of the aquaculture people like Dr. Ruth Floyd and Jo Ann Burke also recommend the low level salt for ponds and fish tanks. I am a microbiologist. If there are salt resistant bugs out there not using salt isnt going to "force" them to revert to salt sensitive. It is like saying not using an antibiotic is going to result in bacteria becoming sensitive again. Maybe in a couple hundred years, but not in our lifetime, nor the lifetime of the fish. My fish were raised in ponds where salt was used at low levels. My fish "come" with salt resistant whatever and my not using salt isnt going to change that at all. In the mean time my fish are healthier and more able to throw off problems because I add a bit of salt to my otherwise salt free lake water. wow. that is interesting about the San Diego water supply, but not that su rprising. Actually, with that amount of salt in the water already adding more is not really all that necessary either. Ingrid Hal wrote: I didn't know that, but wouldn't the sodium chloride work as well as the calcium chloride? I had a bag of calcium chloride once but I spread it on the walk to melt the ice. It never occurred to me to use it in a pond. I don't see a relationship between the oxygen level and salt concentration. I guessed the increased salt was to stimulate the slime coat and help prevent swapping of parasites during the trip in such a confined puddle. Is there another reason? Yes, I read a couple things about that too and it sounds reasonable to me. I hope my adding a bit of salt (.1%) every winter doesn't cause such a condition in my pond, but I'm still learning and if it does I'll have to deal with it when and if it happens. I believe it was someone in the San Diego Koi Club that said they have a natural concentration of about .04% salt in the water. Hal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
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#57
11-02-2004, 02:38 AM
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Salt in a Nutshell
Hal,
Ingrid is a microbiologist, but she has never done anything or published any thing that has to do with microbiology and goldfish. She has only been keeping Goldfish for about 8 years. Tom L.L. ------------------------------------------ "Hal" wrote in message ... On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:43:43 GMT, wrote: I am a microbiologist. Yes Maam! I know who you are and I am familiar with Pure Gold and I appreciate the valued advice you share with all of us here. Regards, Hal |
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#58
11-02-2004, 10:03 PM
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Salt in a Nutshell
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:12:58 -0600, "Tom La Bron"
wrote: Ingrid is a microbiologist, but she has never done anything or published any thing that has to do with microbiology and goldfish. She has only been keeping Goldfish for about 8 years. Tom L.L. That sounds a bit negative. I'm afraid you may have me confused with someone else. I don't care what she hasn't done. She has been helpful to me several times. I do agree with her theory on adding salt to stimulate the growth of a slime coat on pond fish. I probably picked the idea from a message from her to someone, but wherever it came from the idea is mine now. I'm sorry if that bothers you. I can surely understand if you don't wish to add salt to your pond, that will be OK with me. I won't even consider it fish abuse, just a different idea on fish keeping. Regards, Hal |
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#59
12-02-2004, 11:26 PM
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Salt in a Nutshell
OK, for all those who took exception to my math, I had a typo: it's 1 lb. of
salt in *12* gallons of water = 1% salinity. I've corrected my data sheet. The sample math calculations ARE, however, correct. Sorry for the delay in responding: my husband was back in the hospital again and I was otherwise occupied. Lee "Lee B." wrote in message ... For those that need to calculate the size of their pond using salt, or need to figure out how much to add: Salt in a Nutshell 1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity 1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12% (These are "generally accepted" numbers; if you want to "proof" the numbers, it goes like this: 1 lb. salt /100 gallons water (convert to metric) = 454 grams of salt / 378.5 liters of water = 454 grams of salt / 378,500 grams of water = 0.001199 ppm, or 0.12%) If there is no salt reading in the pond: # salt x 12 / % salinity = gallons of water Example: 25 lbs salt x 12 = 300 / .3 (salinity) = 1000 gal. If there is an existing salt reading: R1 = Reading 1 (existing); R2 = Reading 2 (resultant) # salt x 12 / (R2-R1) salinity = gallons of water Example (Say the existing salt level was .15; after salt it was .3, so the number we're looking for is .3 - .15 = .15): 50 lbs. salt x 12 = 600 / .15 = 4000 gallons To get # salt needed with known gallons: (desired % / 12) x gallons of water = # salt Example (If you want to achieve a .2% of salt in a 1500 gallon pond): .2/12 = .01666 x 1500 = 24.999 lbs. of salt (call it 25!) Note: If there are salt levels already in the pond, remember to subtract R1 from R2 to get your final reading; if you want a final reading of .2, but the initial reading is .05, then the actual number you're looking for is ..15 (not .2) I hope this helps. Lee |
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#60
12-02-2004, 11:26 PM
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Salt in a Nutshell
OK, for all those who took exception to my math, I had a typo: it's 1 lb. of
salt in *12* gallons of water = 1% salinity. I've corrected my data sheet. The sample math calculations ARE, however, correct. Sorry for the delay in responding: my husband was back in the hospital again and I was otherwise occupied. Lee "Lee B." wrote in message ... For those that need to calculate the size of their pond using salt, or need to figure out how much to add: Salt in a Nutshell 1 lb. of salt in 1 gallon of water = 1% salinity 1 lb. of salt in 100 gallons of water = .12% (These are "generally accepted" numbers; if you want to "proof" the numbers, it goes like this: 1 lb. salt /100 gallons water (convert to metric) = 454 grams of salt / 378.5 liters of water = 454 grams of salt / 378,500 grams of water = 0.001199 ppm, or 0.12%) If there is no salt reading in the pond: # salt x 12 / % salinity = gallons of water Example: 25 lbs salt x 12 = 300 / .3 (salinity) = 1000 gal. If there is an existing salt reading: R1 = Reading 1 (existing); R2 = Reading 2 (resultant) # salt x 12 / (R2-R1) salinity = gallons of water Example (Say the existing salt level was .15; after salt it was .3, so the number we're looking for is .3 - .15 = .15): 50 lbs. salt x 12 = 600 / .15 = 4000 gallons To get # salt needed with known gallons: (desired % / 12) x gallons of water = # salt Example (If you want to achieve a .2% of salt in a 1500 gallon pond): .2/12 = .01666 x 1500 = 24.999 lbs. of salt (call it 25!) Note: If there are salt levels already in the pond, remember to subtract R1 from R2 to get your final reading; if you want a final reading of .2, but the initial reading is .05, then the actual number you're looking for is ..15 (not .2) I hope this helps. Lee |
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