Read this way ""Finally, a light solution of 0.01 to 0.2 percent salt may be used as
a permanent treatment in recirculating systems. Such levels are quite
effective in eliminating single-cell protozoans. Most fish can tolerate
prolonged exposure to salt at these concentrations;" meaning all the way up to 0.2%

She is saying to use permanently in recirculating systems. This is important cause
many breeders with dirt ponds pump water thru the system and out, and using salt
would be useless in flow thru systems as it is just washed out anyway. the parasite
burden is low in flow thru systems in any case. main problem in our "recirculating
systems" is stress and stress means over growth of single celled protozoans. the low
levels of salt increase slime coat turnover (with concomitant antimicrobial protein
secretion) thereby controlling the single celled protozoans. that is the main use
of low levels of salt, and the benefit to those people with naturally low levels of
salt in their water.

Dr. Floyd recommended salt as a preventative as part of the course work. Jo Ann has
used salt in her tanks and recirculating ponds for 20+ years with excellent results.
So, evidently, does Jackie and Sun who told Jo Ann they did add/use salt in their
ponds. Koi breeders like Brett also add/use salt in their koi ponds even tho the
water he uses is already pretty high in salts. Others with flow thru systems are not
going to waste their money adding salt.

Ingrid


"Benign Vanilla" wrote:
olution of 0.01 to 0.2 percent salt may be used as a
permanent treatment in recirculating systems. Such levels are quite
effective in eliminating single-cell protozoans. Most fish can tolerate
prolonged exposure to salt at these concentrations; however, tetras and fish
that navigate by electrical field (e.g., elephant nose) should not be
maintained in salt. "

Which, IMHO, reinforces my position. Salt is not bad, but it has a time and
a place, and that time and place is based on several factors, including the
fish's condition, species, reason for the salt, and most importantly the
current salinity of water.

More importantly, she uses the words "most fish can tolerate prolonged
exposure to salt". So in some case Salt is very bad such as the elephant
nose, and in other case the fish can tolerate it. THIS is how I can infer
that keeping salt in my pond as a daily/every day thing, is not a good
thing. How do you extrapolate this out to using salt every day?

Do you take penicillin every day in order to rid yourself of an infection
you may or may not have? So why do this to your fish? You say they are
stressed, why? Why not remove the stress?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Read this way ""Finally, a light solution of 0.01 to 0.2 percent salt may be used as
a permanent treatment in recirculating systems. Such levels are quite
effective in eliminating single-cell protozoans. Most fish can tolerate
prolonged exposure to salt at these concentrations;" meaning all the way up to 0.2%

She is saying to use permanently in recirculating systems. This is important cause
many breeders with dirt ponds pump water thru the system and out, and using salt
would be useless in flow thru systems as it is just washed out anyway. the parasite
burden is low in flow thru systems in any case. main problem in our "recirculating
systems" is stress and stress means over growth of single celled protozoans. the low
levels of salt increase slime coat turnover (with concomitant antimicrobial protein
secretion) thereby controlling the single celled protozoans. that is the main use
of low levels of salt, and the benefit to those people with naturally low levels of
salt in their water.

Dr. Floyd recommended salt as a preventative as part of the course work. Jo Ann has
used salt in her tanks and recirculating ponds for 20+ years with excellent results.
So, evidently, does Jackie and Sun who told Jo Ann they did add/use salt in their
ponds. Koi breeders like Brett also add/use salt in their koi ponds even tho the
water he uses is already pretty high in salts. Others with flow thru systems are not
going to waste their money adding salt.

Ingrid


"Benign Vanilla" wrote:
olution of 0.01 to 0.2 percent salt may be used as a
permanent treatment in recirculating systems. Such levels are quite
effective in eliminating single-cell protozoans. Most fish can tolerate
prolonged exposure to salt at these concentrations; however, tetras and fish
that navigate by electrical field (e.g., elephant nose) should not be
maintained in salt. "

Which, IMHO, reinforces my position. Salt is not bad, but it has a time and
a place, and that time and place is based on several factors, including the
fish's condition, species, reason for the salt, and most importantly the
current salinity of water.

More importantly, she uses the words "most fish can tolerate prolonged
exposure to salt". So in some case Salt is very bad such as the elephant
nose, and in other case the fish can tolerate it. THIS is how I can infer
that keeping salt in my pond as a daily/every day thing, is not a good
thing. How do you extrapolate this out to using salt every day?

Do you take penicillin every day in order to rid yourself of an infection
you may or may not have? So why do this to your fish? You say they are
stressed, why? Why not remove the stress?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

wrote in message
...
Read this way ""Finally, a light solution of 0.01 to 0.2 percent salt may
be used as
a permanent treatment in recirculating systems. Such levels are quite
effective in eliminating single-cell protozoans. Most fish can tolerate
prolonged exposure to salt at these concentrations;" meaning all the way
up to 0.2%

But you edited out the cautionary bit! I guess if you ignore the warnings
and the clarifications, then yeah, you can read anything you want into it.

She is saying to use permanently in recirculating systems.

She is saying under some conditions, it won't hurt. She did not say you
should do this, but you can.

This is important cause
many breeders with dirt ponds pump water thru the system and out, and
using salt
would be useless in flow thru systems as it is just washed out anyway.
the parasite
burden is low in flow thru systems in any case. main problem in our
"recirculating
systems" is stress and stress means over growth of single celled
protozoans. the low
levels of salt increase slime coat turnover (with concomitant
antimicrobial protein
secretion) thereby controlling the single celled protozoans. that is the
main use
of low levels of salt, and the benefit to those people with naturally low
levels of
salt in their water.

I recognize those benefits, and do not counter them at all. Never have.

Dr. Floyd recommended salt as a preventative as part of the course work.
Jo Ann has
used salt in her tanks and recirculating ponds for 20+ years with
excellent results.
So, evidently, does Jackie and Sun who told Jo Ann they did add/use salt
in their
ponds. Koi breeders like Brett also add/use salt in their koi ponds even
tho the
water he uses is already pretty high in salts. Others with flow thru
systems are not
going to waste their money adding salt.
snip

Uh...OK.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

Ah yes Ingrid,

But the recirculating systems, as I have said before in Aquaculture, is not
you backyard pond, it is a system that supports 1/2 pound to one pound of
fish per gallon of water. Recirc systems in Aquaculture is not your backyard
pond where you have one fish per 1,000 gallons and additional fish per 100
gallons. You keep forgetting that Floyd is talking about aquaculture. A
recirc system she is talking about has about 2,000 pounds of fish in it
depending on the species.

Salt is not needed. It is just that simple, plus all those who use salt in
their ponds seem to just as many problems than those that don't use salt, so
why use it in the first place.

Tom L.L.

----------------------------------

wrote in message
...

Read this way ""Finally, a light solution of 0.01 to 0.2 percent salt may
be used as
a permanent treatment in recirculating systems. Such levels are quite
effective in eliminating single-cell protozoans. Most fish can tolerate
prolonged exposure to salt at these concentrations;" meaning all the way
up to 0.2%

She is saying to use permanently in recirculating systems. This is
important cause
many breeders with dirt ponds pump water thru the system and out, and
using salt
would be useless in flow thru systems as it is just washed out anyway.
the parasite
burden is low in flow thru systems in any case. main problem in our
"recirculating
systems" is stress and stress means over growth of single celled
protozoans. the low
levels of salt increase slime coat turnover (with concomitant
antimicrobial protein
secretion) thereby controlling the single celled protozoans. that is the
main use
of low levels of salt, and the benefit to those people with naturally low
levels of
salt in their water.

Dr. Floyd recommended salt as a preventative as part of the course work.
Jo Ann has
used salt in her tanks and recirculating ponds for 20+ years with
excellent results.
So, evidently, does Jackie and Sun who told Jo Ann they did add/use salt
in their
ponds. Koi breeders like Brett also add/use salt in their koi ponds even
tho the
water he uses is already pretty high in salts. Others with flow thru
systems are not
going to waste their money adding salt.

Ingrid


"Benign Vanilla" wrote:
olution of 0.01 to 0.2 percent salt may be used as a
permanent treatment in recirculating systems. Such levels are quite
effective in eliminating single-cell protozoans. Most fish can tolerate
prolonged exposure to salt at these concentrations; however, tetras and
fish
that navigate by electrical field (e.g., elephant nose) should not be
maintained in salt. "

Which, IMHO, reinforces my position. Salt is not bad, but it has a time
and
a place, and that time and place is based on several factors, including
the
fish's condition, species, reason for the salt, and most importantly the
current salinity of water.

More importantly, she uses the words "most fish can tolerate prolonged
exposure to salt". So in some case Salt is very bad such as the elephant
nose, and in other case the fish can tolerate it. THIS is how I can infer
that keeping salt in my pond as a daily/every day thing, is not a good
thing. How do you extrapolate this out to using salt every day?

Do you take penicillin every day in order to rid yourself of an infection
you may or may not have? So why do this to your fish? You say they are
stressed, why? Why not remove the stress?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

BV,

Don't let her buffalo you on the last paragraph. Jackie and Sun both told
me that they use salt but not prophalaytically, and use it when needed as a
treatment.

Also it seems funny that Dr. Floyd tells her classes one thing and then
publishes different information. So what if Jo Annn has used it for 20
years, I have not used it for 40 years and my fish very seldom ever get
sick.

Oh yes, and Brett does add salt to his ponds but only in the early spring
because his salt levels are soooo high in his waters that the parasites live
in the salty water just fine and attack his fish if he doesn't add the extra
salt, then after the water warms ups the water is changed and brought back
to it original salinity levels.

This the last statement of Ingrid shows how little she really knows about
aquaculture facilities and the aquaculture community, because it is illegal
to put additives in any water facility that has a flow through system and
that includes salt. Now-a-days the EPA would be down on you like stink on
manure if you were found to have added salt to a flow through system.

Tom L.L.
------------------------------------------------------
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

Dr. Floyd recommended salt as a preventative as part of the course work.
Jo Ann has
used salt in her tanks and recirculating ponds for 20+ years with
excellent results.
So, evidently, does Jackie and Sun who told Jo Ann they did add/use salt
in their
ponds. Koi breeders like Brett also add/use salt in their koi ponds even
tho the
water he uses is already pretty high in salts. Others with flow thru
systems are not
going to waste their money adding salt.
snip

Uh...OK.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

BV,

Don't let her buffalo you on the last paragraph. Jackie and Sun both told
me that they use salt but not prophalaytically, and use it when needed as a
treatment.

Also it seems funny that Dr. Floyd tells her classes one thing and then
publishes different information. So what if Jo Annn has used it for 20
years, I have not used it for 40 years and my fish very seldom ever get
sick.

Oh yes, and Brett does add salt to his ponds but only in the early spring
because his salt levels are soooo high in his waters that the parasites live
in the salty water just fine and attack his fish if he doesn't add the extra
salt, then after the water warms ups the water is changed and brought back
to it original salinity levels.

This the last statement of Ingrid shows how little she really knows about
aquaculture facilities and the aquaculture community, because it is illegal
to put additives in any water facility that has a flow through system and
that includes salt. Now-a-days the EPA would be down on you like stink on
manure if you were found to have added salt to a flow through system.

Tom L.L.
------------------------------------------------------
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

Dr. Floyd recommended salt as a preventative as part of the course work.
Jo Ann has
used salt in her tanks and recirculating ponds for 20+ years with
excellent results.
So, evidently, does Jackie and Sun who told Jo Ann they did add/use salt
in their
ponds. Koi breeders like Brett also add/use salt in their koi ponds even
tho the
water he uses is already pretty high in salts. Others with flow thru
systems are not
going to waste their money adding salt.
snip

Uh...OK.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

Read this way ""Finally, a light solution of 0.01 to 0.2 percent salt may be used as
a permanent treatment in recirculating systems. Such levels are quite
effective in eliminating single-cell protozoans. Most fish can tolerate
prolonged exposure to salt at these concentrations;" meaning all the way up to 0.2%

She is saying to use permanently in recirculating systems. This is important cause
many breeders with dirt ponds pump water thru the system and out, and using salt
would be useless in flow thru systems as it is just washed out anyway. the parasite
burden is low in flow thru systems in any case. main problem in our "recirculating
systems" is stress and stress means over growth of single celled protozoans. the low
levels of salt increase slime coat turnover (with concomitant antimicrobial protein
secretion) thereby controlling the single celled protozoans. that is the main use
of low levels of salt, and the benefit to those people with naturally low levels of
salt in their water.

Dr. Floyd recommended salt as a preventative as part of the course work. Jo Ann has
used salt in her tanks and recirculating ponds for 20+ years with excellent results.
So, evidently, does Jackie and Sun who told Jo Ann they did add/use salt in their
ponds. Koi breeders like Brett also add/use salt in their koi ponds even tho the
water he uses is already pretty high in salts. Others with flow thru systems are not
going to waste their money adding salt.

Ingrid



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Ingrid,

As I have said before, in the Aquaculture business the stocking levels in
Recirc systems are a lot higher than in the backyard pond, in some cases the
level is half a pound of fish per gallon of water. Read some of my other
messges and you would see this.

As has been stated before and shown with scientific literatrure by other
posters besides myself, these continuous low levels of salt in the water
have led to single-cell protozoans that are not affected by the low level of
salt. We see this in Ich, flukes and chilodonella. Plus there is a
difference between prolonged exposure and continuous exposure as in a
prophylactic addition of salt to a pond.

You can read my other messages if you want a response to your last
paragraph, but I will say thought that in all the stuff that I have read by
Dr. Floyd about preventive use of salt she says nothing about using it
continuously in your backyard pond or your aquariums.

Tom L.L.
------------------------------------------
wrote in message
...
Read this way ""Finally, a light solution of 0.01 to 0.2 percent salt may
be used as
a permanent treatment in recirculating systems. Such levels are quite
effective in eliminating single-cell protozoans. Most fish can tolerate
prolonged exposure to salt at these concentrations;" meaning all the way
up to 0.2%

She is saying to use permanently in recirculating systems. This is
important cause
many breeders with dirt ponds pump water thru the system and out, and
using salt
would be useless in flow thru systems as it is just washed out anyway.
the parasite
burden is low in flow thru systems in any case. main problem in our
"recirculating
systems" is stress and stress means over growth of single celled
protozoans. the low
levels of salt increase slime coat turnover (with concomitant
antimicrobial protein
secretion) thereby controlling the single celled protozoans. that is the
main use
of low levels of salt, and the benefit to those people with naturally low
levels of
salt in their water.

Dr. Floyd recommended salt as a preventative as part of the course work.
Jo Ann has
used salt in her tanks and recirculating ponds for 20+ years with
excellent results.
So, evidently, does Jackie and Sun who told Jo Ann they did add/use salt
in their
ponds. Koi breeders like Brett also add/use salt in their koi ponds even
tho the
water he uses is already pretty high in salts. Others with flow thru
systems are not
going to waste their money adding salt.

Ingrid



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Right. Just because *YOU* write it on *YOUR* web page makes it so. Uh
hum.

It's time to put up or shut up. GIVE US PROOF that would/could stand up
in court.

Lilly

wrote:

Then there is this lie, this fabrication that Jo Ann is just another
"local fish
store" owner who sat in on a course and that is all. The truth is
she is a licensed
diagnostician. http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/pgcharacters.html,
she did graduate course work to obtain the license.

call her and ask. 251-649-4790. She gets calls from all over the world asking for
help with sick fish. Ingrid

"Lilly" wrote:

Right. Just because *YOU* write it on *YOUR* web page makes it so. Uh
hum.

It's time to put up or shut up. GIVE US PROOF that would/could stand up
in court.

Lilly

wrote:

Then there is this lie, this fabrication that Jo Ann is just another
"local fish
store" owner who sat in on a course and that is all. The truth is
she is a licensed
diagnostician. http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/pgcharacters.html,
she did graduate course work to obtain the license.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

first I would like to see proof that you exist on your website. Ingrid

"Lilly" wrote:

Right. Just because *YOU* write it on *YOUR* web page makes it so. Uh
hum.

It's time to put up or shut up. GIVE US PROOF that would/could stand up
in court.

Lilly

wrote:

Then there is this lie, this fabrication that Jo Ann is just another
"local fish
store" owner who sat in on a course and that is all. The truth is
she is a licensed
diagnostician. http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/pgcharacters.html,
she did graduate course work to obtain the license.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

wrote in message
...
call her and ask. 251-649-4790. She gets calls from all over the world
asking for
help with sick fish. Ingrid
===========================
And sometimes the blind lead the blind.......
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LOL! I'm quite sure usenet as all a matter of my imagination, none of us is
real. ;o) ~ jan

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 01:01:26 GMT, wrote:

first I would like to see proof that you exist on your website. Ingrid

"Lilly" wrote:

Right. Just because *YOU* write it on *YOUR* web page makes it so. Uh
hum.

It's time to put up or shut up. GIVE US PROOF that would/could stand up
in court.

Lilly

wrote:

Then there is this lie, this fabrication that Jo Ann is just another
"local fish
store" owner who sat in on a course and that is all. The truth is
she is a licensed
diagnostician. http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/pgcharacters.html,
she did graduate course work to obtain the license.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Ask her? That amounts to the same thing as a blurb on your web page.
Just because one says it is so, does not make it so. All it proves is
that she has a phone and a number to go with it.

Let me be more specific. If someone were to ask you about your
credentials, you would be able to pony up a few diplomas from various
colleges and universities, correct? Why is it then, that I have never
seen a copy of her license, or anything resembling anything from a
state or federal government, or a "sheep skin" from an institution of
learning. It's not like this is a new theme on the NGs. If it were
true, and it were me defending myself, I'd have provided the proof long
ago.

Put up, or shut up.

Lilly

wrote:
call her and ask. 251-649-4790. She gets calls from all over the
world asking for
help with sick fish. Ingrid

Sorry. I don't have to prove anything. I'm not making any claims of
expertise, of of having degrees, or licenses.

Lilly

wrote:
first I would like to see proof that you exist on your website.
Ingrid