"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from Kay contains these words:


Interesting how the use of the apostrophe seems to be completely
reversing in this age - once it was used for possessives but not
plurals, now it appears to be the other way around.

The correct use of apostrophes hasn't changed, there are just more
people abusing them.

http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/

Janet.~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I find all abuse of English quite amusing, [and thank whoever for
spell-check] as there seems to be no way to alter, once an adult. We seem
to learn by example, from peers and parents, rather than education. Even
lack of thought can give rise to funny examples.
Heard a few weeks ago at the baby clinic~~ " You've had the baby then.
Was it a boy, or a waste of time?" [ She had three daughters already, but
none of the listeners knew]
At other times~
" My daughter has had an 'hysterical rectomy' "
" My kitchen has been painted with 'plastic emotion' "
" I saw a picture of it in 'Idle Homes' "
W.M.News~~ Tractor for sale with 5 ton wench!!.
Also~
Many words are almost usually spelt wrongly.
Minuscule is frequently, wrongly, written with an 'i' instead of the 'u'
!
My own spelling can be quite atrocious if I have to think about it~~~
so I can easily forgive others' mistakes.
Best Wishes Brian.[No paragon]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:23:52 +0100, Kay
wrote:


Interesting how the use of the apostrophe seems to be completely
reversing in this age - once it was used for possessives but not
plurals, now it appears to be the other way around.

I agree with Kays comment's!

Pam in Bristol

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Brian" --- 'flayb' to respond contains these
words:


I find all abuse of English quite amusing, [and thank whoever for
spell-check] as there seems to be no way to alter, once an adult. We
seem
to learn by example, from peers and parents, rather than education.

Janet
Communication is the 'name of the game'....way back when I spoke what might
be considered 'proper English' I found many that really did not understand
some of the words etc. etc.I used....being in marketing/selling for a living
I had to learn some valuable lessons in communicating and started the use of
the language of the 'audience'.....my so called excellent grammar took a
real hit but I was getting my points across....if I was talking to a
corporate VP I would use my public school speak but if talking to a lay
foreman it would be a different matter altogether and at this level even a
few cuss words here and there helped....so to those that would quibble about
an ' or a " here and there I would say......read the above.....H

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Brian" --- 'flayb' to respond contains these
words:


I find all abuse of English quite amusing, [and thank whoever for
spell-check] as there seems to be no way to alter, once an adult. We
seem
to learn by example, from peers and parents, rather than education.

That depends on the quality of teaching. Grammar teaching was so
forcefully ingrained at my school, I doubt if any pupil of my vintage
misuses apostrophes, texts messages in lower case only, or could bring
herself to say "Lots of teachers gave Janet and I a Detention".


Whilst at school, we were taught that it was incorrect to put an 's' after
the 'possessive' apostrophe in the case of plural words ending in 's'. Hence
we would put, for example, the squirrels' nuts (meaning the nuts put out for
the squirrels); not the squirrels's nuts; certainly not the squirrel's nuts,
which latter would mean we were asserting the squirrel (singular) was nuts.
As an expert in these matters, can you please advise whether that usage is
still regarded as correct?

The message
from Kay contains these words:

Interesting how the use of the apostrophe seems to be completely
reversing in this age - once it was used for possessives but not
plurals, now it appears to be the other way around.

Actually, originally it *WAS* used for plurals, when exotic stuff began
to be imported, and it helped to indicate how a word was to be
pronounced - as in bananas - it signified it should rhyme with pyjamas
and not Barabbas.

Only later (when Barabbas and pyjamas became established) did it settle
into its present application of indicating missing letters. (As in Book,
its pages:- Book's pages; Arthur, his cow:- Arthur's cow; Kay, her
post:- er - Kay'r post? - - well, you can't have everything in this land
fit for he-men...)

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from "cineman" contains these words:
"Kay" wrote in message
...

Interesting how the use of the apostrophe seems to be completely
reversing in this age - once it was used for possessives but not
plurals, now it appears to be the other way around.

Pardon?
When I as at school, on our chalk boards we were taught to use those
squiggly little things (thing's) to show plural plural's ?? and in such
case's cases ?? as isnt or isn't, or where I come from aint.
From this yo no are dow now worarm torkin abaht.

You had illiterate teachers?

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from "Brian" --- 'flayb' to respond contains these words:

I find all abuse of English quite amusing, [and thank whoever for
spell-check] as there seems to be no way to alter, once an adult. We seem
to learn by example, from peers and parents, rather than education. Even
lack of thought can give rise to funny examples.
Heard a few weeks ago at the baby clinic~~ " You've had the baby then.
Was it a boy, or a waste of time?" [ She had three daughters already, but
none of the listeners knew]

Hoffnung "Sir, this is to inform you that I have given birth to twins
in the enclosed envelope." /Hoffnung

At other times~
" My daughter has had an 'hysterical rectomy' "

In the 50s, in the office of Faraday School, Canning Town, was pinned a
note (which has become famous): "Dear Sir, please excuse **** being
absent only he had diarrhoea through holes in his boots."

" My kitchen has been painted with 'plastic emotion' "
" I saw a picture of it in 'Idle Homes' "
W.M.News~~ Tractor for sale with 5 ton wench!!.
Also~
Many words are almost usually spelt wrongly.
Minuscule is frequently, wrongly, written with an 'i' instead of the 'u'
!

Oh, we can all spell baldly or get our fnigers in a twits while tryping.

My own spelling can be quite atrocious if I have to think about it~~~
so I can easily forgive others' mistakes.

Feral apostrophes excepted. Google for 'Apostrophe Protection Society'.

Best Wishes Brian.[No paragon]

Paraffin, Shirley?

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from Janet Baraclough contains these words:

The correct use of apostrophes hasn't changed, there are just more
people abusing them.

It has changed, but not recently. (For rather long values of 'not recently'.)

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from "BAC" contains these words:

Whilst at school, we were taught that it was incorrect to put an 's' after
the 'possessive' apostrophe in the case of plural words ending in 's'. Hence
we would put, for example, the squirrels' nuts (meaning the nuts put out for
the squirrels); not the squirrels's nuts; certainly not the squirrel's nuts,
which latter would mean we were asserting the squirrel (singular) was nuts.
As an expert in these matters, can you please advise whether that usage is
still regarded as correct?

As a onetime teacher I'll stick my neck out:

"Squirrel's nuts" is perfectly correct for "the nuts of the squirrel";
"Squirrels' nuts" for "the nuts of the squirrels" is perfectly correct;
"Squirrels's nuts" for "the nuts of the squirrels" is also correct,
though not so often used;

"The squirrel's were on the lawn" is wrong, and always has been, even in
the time when an apostrophe was used to adorn the plural of bananas,
avocados, amd many other (usually foreign) words ending in a vowel.

HTH

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:

"Squirrels's nuts" for "the nuts of the squirrels" is also correct,
though not so often used;

Really? I'd like to verify that. Can you give me your source for that?

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:56:14 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:

"The squirrel's were on the lawn" is wrong, and always has been,

Except as in:
Where are the nuts?
The squirrel's are on the lawn.

--
Tim C.

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Brian" --- 'flayb' to respond contains these
words:


I find all abuse of English quite amusing, [and thank whoever for
spell-check] as there seems to be no way to alter, once an adult. We
seem
to learn by example, from peers and parents, rather than education.

That depends on the quality of teaching. Grammar teaching was so
forcefully ingrained at my school, I doubt if any pupil of my vintage
misuses apostrophes, texts messages in lower case only, or could bring
herself to say "Lots of teachers gave Janet and I a Detention".

There ARE ways to alter old habits; I've spent years successfully
teaching correct spoken and written English grammar to adults, who were
motivated by the realisation that poor communication skills are still a
brake on many careers. There is an expensive and seldom publicised
industry devoted to re-vamping every aspect of social presentation,
including written, spoken and body language. Watch old footage of many
politicians (Thatcher and Blair included).

I've been amused listening to Radio 4's current trailers featuring very
different versions of John Peel's radio voice :-) .

Janet
~~~~~~~~
I must really agree with you~~ we seem to have had a similar
background with English.
It's the misuse of less and fewer that I notice most.
My own misuse of Other's, I can't glibly explain. Probably follows the
rule thay his and hers cannot be made possessive.
Best Wishes Brian.

"BAC" wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Brian" --- 'flayb' to respond contains these
words:


I find all abuse of English quite amusing, [and thank whoever
for
spell-check] as there seems to be no way to alter, once an adult. We
seem
to learn by example, from peers and parents, rather than education.

That depends on the quality of teaching. Grammar teaching was so
forcefully ingrained at my school, I doubt if any pupil of my vintage
misuses apostrophes, texts messages in lower case only, or could bring
herself to say "Lots of teachers gave Janet and I a Detention".


Whilst at school, we were taught that it was incorrect to put an 's' after
the 'possessive' apostrophe in the case of plural words ending in 's'.
Hence
we would put, for example, the squirrels' nuts (meaning the nuts put out
for
the squirrels); not the squirrels's nuts; certainly not the squirrel's
nuts,
which latter would mean we were asserting the squirrel (singular) was
nuts.
As an expert in these matters, can you please advise whether that usage is
still regarded as correct?
~~~~~~~~~
Yes you seem to be correct. I remind myself by the use of 'their' or '
its/his or hers. Thus Squirrels' nuts is the squirrels, their, nuts.
Squirrel's nuts would be squirrel his/her/its nuts.
Many have problems with, say, Charles, as a plural, plural possessive,
or singular possessive~ and where to place the apostrophe~~given one or more
with that name!!
Best Wishes Brian.

The message
from David Rance contains these words:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:

"Squirrels's nuts" for "the nuts of the squirrels" is also correct,
though not so often used;

Really? I'd like to verify that. Can you give me your source for that?

If I could unforget - probably Miss Burbridge, around 1955.

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message 1129561140.eecddb593ab15e2568d51622d28817a6@teran ews
from "Tim C." contains these words:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:56:14 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:

"The squirrel's were on the lawn" is wrong, and always has been,

Except as in:
Where are the nuts?
The squirrel's are on the lawn.

Nut-picking, I see...

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/