Hello fellow gardeners,


Can someone explain the term 'of gardens' in the naming of some plants. For
example:

Chrysanthemum maximum of gardens
Buxus harlandii of gardens

These terms are used for some plants and it is unclear what this means.

Pat

In article ,
Pat wrote:

Can someone explain the term 'of gardens' in the naming of some plants. For
example:

Chrysanthemum maximum of gardens
Buxus harlandii of gardens

These terms are used for some plants and it is unclear what this means.

What it means is that they are names that are used in horticultural
circles that are regarded as improper by botanists. Sometimes they
are older names and the plant has been reclassified; sometimes the
arcane rules for botanical names have rendered the established name
'invalid' and gardeners have ignored the dogma; sometimes the common
"gardening" name is just plain wrong.

Datura suavolens is an example of the first - the genus has been
split, and it is now Brugmansia suavolens.

Viburnum fragrans is an example of the second - botanists call it
V. farrerii, but nobody else does, and there was no good reason for
the change.

I can't think of examples of the third, but I am sure that there are
plenty.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Pat wrote:
Hello fellow gardeners,


Can someone explain the term 'of gardens' in the naming of some
plants. For example:

Chrysanthemum maximum of gardens
Buxus harlandii of gardens

These terms are used for some plants and it is unclear what this
means.

Just "as cultivated in, or so named in, gardens".

--
Mike.

On 10/11/05 17:46, in article
, "Pat"
wrote:

Hello fellow gardeners,


Can someone explain the term 'of gardens' in the naming of some plants. For
example:

Chrysanthemum maximum of gardens
Buxus harlandii of gardens

These terms are used for some plants and it is unclear what this means.

Hello, Pat. Where did you see this used? And could it mean that the plants
originated from garden plant 'parents' and not from wild ones?
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In message , Sacha
writes
On 10/11/05 17:46, in article
, "Pat"
wrote:

Hello fellow gardeners,


Can someone explain the term 'of gardens' in the naming of some plants. For
example:

Chrysanthemum maximum of gardens
Buxus harlandii of gardens

These terms are used for some plants and it is unclear what this means.

Hello, Pat. Where did you see this used? And could it mean that the plants
originated from garden plant 'parents' and not from wild ones?

I agree with Nick on the usage of this term. You'll also see it as e.g.
Chrysanthemum maximum hort., meaning that it is known by that name in
horticultural circles.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Nick Maclaren wrote:
[...]
sometimes the common
"gardening" name is just plain wrong.

[...]
I can't think of examples of the third, but I am sure that there
are
plenty.

I can't stop my mother calling pelargoniums "geraniums", and a
village school-teacher once contradicted me when I correctly called a
geranium a "geranium". Both are better gardeners than I. And I refuse
to stop calling tropaeolums "nasturtiums". There's "ilex", too. Must
be hundreds of 'em.

In message , Mike Lyle
writes
Nick Maclaren wrote:
[...]
sometimes the common
"gardening" name is just plain wrong.

[...]
I can't think of examples of the third, but I am sure that there
are
plenty.

I can't stop my mother calling pelargoniums "geraniums", and a
village school-teacher once contradicted me when I correctly called a
geranium a "geranium". Both are better gardeners than I. And I refuse
to stop calling tropaeolums "nasturtiums". There's "ilex", too. Must
be hundreds of 'em.



Geranium for Pelargonium, and chrysanthemum for Dendrathema are
instances of vernacular names derived from old botanical names; they're
either examples of the first category, or of none of the three
categories.

I would think that Lavatera olbia hort (= Lavatera x clementii) would be
an example of the 3rd category.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
In message , Mike Lyle
writes
Nick Maclaren wrote:
[...]
sometimes the common
"gardening" name is just plain wrong.

I can't think of examples of the third, but I am sure that there
are
plenty.

I can't stop my mother calling pelargoniums "geraniums", and a
village school-teacher once contradicted me when I correctly called a
geranium a "geranium". Both are better gardeners than I. And I refuse
to stop calling tropaeolums "nasturtiums". There's "ilex", too. Must
be hundreds of 'em.

Geranium for Pelargonium, and chrysanthemum for Dendrathema are
instances of vernacular names derived from old botanical names; they're
either examples of the first category, or of none of the three
categories.

I would think that Lavatera olbia hort (= Lavatera x clementii) would be
an example of the 3rd category.

Yes, and I am being stupid. I grow one of the clearest examples!
Vinca minor 'Dartington star" is actually a variant of Vinca major
(oxyloba).

The first name for it is just plain wrong. No ifs or buts. Not
even using an ad hoc species name for a cross with another name.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Thank you everyone for your helpful responses.

Where did you see this used? And could it mean that the plants
originated from garden plant 'parents' and not from wild ones?

It is used throughout the excellent "The Royal Horticultural Society A-Z
Encyclopedia of Garden Plants"

Pat


"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
news
In message , Sacha
writes
On 10/11/05 17:46, in article
, "Pat"
wrote:

Hello fellow gardeners,


Can someone explain the term 'of gardens' in the naming of some plants.
For
example:

Chrysanthemum maximum of gardens
Buxus harlandii of gardens

These terms are used for some plants and it is unclear what this means.

Hello, Pat. Where did you see this used? And could it mean that the
plants
originated from garden plant 'parents' and not from wild ones?

I agree with Nick on the usage of this term. You'll also see it as e.g.
Chrysanthemum maximum hort., meaning that it is known by that name in
horticultural circles.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On 10/11/05 22:53, in article
, "Pat"
wrote:

Thank you everyone for your helpful responses.

Where did you see this used? And could it mean that the plants
originated from garden plant 'parents' and not from wild ones?

It is used throughout the excellent "The Royal Horticultural Society A-Z
Encyclopedia of Garden Plants"


Well, I will say straight away that I've never noticed that. We use those
volumes mainly to show customers what plants look like, and whether or not
they will be hardy. I have to say that most people are not too interested
in the etymology of plant names but I'll certainly keep my eyes open now.
Goodness! Do you have a particular interest in the subject?
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article ,
Pat wrote:

Can someone explain the term 'of gardens' in the naming of some
plants. For
example:

Chrysanthemum maximum of gardens
Buxus harlandii of gardens

These terms are used for some plants and it is unclear what this means.

What it means is that they are names that are used in horticultural
circles that are regarded as improper by botanists. Sometimes they
are older names and the plant has been reclassified; sometimes the
arcane rules for botanical names have rendered the established name
'invalid' and gardeners have ignored the dogma; sometimes the common
"gardening" name is just plain wrong.

Datura suavolens is an example of the first - the genus has been
split, and it is now Brugmansia suavolens.

Viburnum fragrans is an example of the second - botanists call it
V. farrerii, but nobody else does, and there was no good reason for
the change.

I can't think of examples of the third, but I am sure that there are
plenty.

Geranium?

When I was an anklebiter, Viburnum tinus was known as Laurus tinus -
they can move in big leaps...

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On 10/11/05 23:42, in article
, "Jaques d'Alltrades"
wrote:

snip

When I was an anklebiter, Viburnum tinus was known as Laurus tinus -
they can move in big leaps...

Is Lippia citrodora now being Aloysia citrodora an example of this? (Many
people still call it lemon verbena to us.)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In article , Jaques
d'Alltrades writes

When I was an anklebiter, Viburnum tinus was known as Laurus tinus -
they can move in big leaps...

Thought it was Laurestinus - all one word?
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

In article , Sacha
writes

I have to say that most people are not too interested
in the etymology of plant names

I know they're not, but since the plant names are a reflection of the
relationship between plants as far as we understand them, they can tell
you a lot! I can't understand why some people feel even such basic
things as what family a plant is in is somehow difficult and reserved
only for those with great expertise.

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

On 11/11/05 9:32, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

I have to say that most people are not too interested
in the etymology of plant names

I know they're not, but since the plant names are a reflection of the
relationship between plants as far as we understand them, they can tell
you a lot! I can't understand why some people feel even such basic
things as what family a plant is in is somehow difficult and reserved
only for those with great expertise.

I know this is something you're very good at, so I certainly don't want to
insult the crocodile. ;-) But we do find that while a lot of our customers
know the Latin names of plants, they're not at all bothered about
re-classifications and happily go on calling them whatever they've always
called them. I'd say that the majority of people use the common names of
plants - customers, that is - and that there are even some who think it
'snobbish' to use the Latin names. If I encounter people who think like
that, I usually point out that if everyone speaks the same language when
talking about plants, it's easier to find what they want for them! But not
caring what family a plant falls into is, I would suggest, because people
care more what they look like or how they'll do in that awkward shay corner
of their garden, than anything else.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)