tina wrote:

Great advice !! So I'm off to buy myself a good sturdy spade & some
good gloves so i can get digging up all thoe pebbles!! save me going
to the gym :-).

) Indeed. You'll enjoy long soaks in the bath too I'd imagine! Don't
also spend too much money. There's a lovely feeling of achievement from
recycling materials in the garden, from old planks for your path, or
just one would do which you move about as you move through your rows to
cut plastic water bottles to protect your seedlings. You could think
about collecting rain water too close to your plot. The list is
endless! Spend your money on good quality seeds and visit other's
gardens/allotments ...

Whats your advice on how big the individual plots be?

Well, you need a good acess from all sides. Think about your rotation
plan and the choice of vegs you have. You can have as many as you want
depending on how much you want to grow. Many people grow too much of
the same vegs too. Potatoes and squashes takes lots of room but they
are great as weed surpresant. But given you are new to it, you could
start quite small. Some people garden by 1x1 foot garden, see the link.

http://www.squarefootgardening.co.uk/

I plant my courgettes and pumpkins with 3 seeds each time in the same
hole to maximise my chance of germination. I also put the seed sideways
so that it has less chance to rot. There's lots of little tips like
this that you will come across. And don't forget to had herbs and
flowers!

"tina" wrote in message

Whats your advice on how big the individual plots be?

That has to be something you must decide for yourself based on a
number of factors.

How tall are you, how far can you lean forward when on your knees or
from the waist? Do you plan to cultivate your plot once the hard
digging is done by hand or with long handled tools? How strong is
your back to lean from the waist? Do you plan to kneel whilst
gardening? How much free time do you have to devote to this garden?
Where does the sun come up and set, where do the wind/breezes come
from, what is the drainage like etc, etc

Any number of us can tell you differing things. For example, I could
tell you to make the bed 3 metres long by 1.5 metres wide but that
makes no sense as I don't know the lie of your land or how that bed
would be oriented to the sun.

It's your garden and you make it how you like and to please yourself.
And never apologise for it or try to justify it in terms of either
time or money. It's as personal as making love. What works for you
may or may not work for anyone else. So listen to all the advice and
omnivorously take it all in, but then make some decisions and stick to
them till they don't work for you anymore. Then you start the
decision making process all over again :-))

"La Puce" wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:
Another trick an old gardener got me onto was to use prerotted
bales
of hay.

Fabulous stuff hay. Bringing our bale to the lotty tomorrow (minus
the
cat though ).
http://cjoint.com/?kobVyUMfop

I meant to mention this yesterday and forgot. Hay is indeed wonderful
stuff but that bale pictured in the cite you gave with the beautiful
black cat is straw and not hay. Straw is good for very little except
as bedding for animals. It has no real nutrient level so will rob
your soil of nitrogen in the rotting process if you plan on using it
as a mulch.

Don't waste it since you have it but if you want to buy hay in future
don't get this stuff and if it was sold to you as being "hay" rather
than "straw" then don't buy it at the same place again because they
don't know thier product. Lucerne (also known as alfalfa) hay is the
creme de la creme of hays but it's (relatively) expensive, clover or
meadow hay is next down the line in quality

Farm1 wrote:
I meant to mention this yesterday and forgot. Hay is indeed wonderful
stuff but that bale pictured in the cite you gave with the beautiful
black cat is straw and not hay. Straw is good for very little except
as bedding for animals. It has no real nutrient level so will rob
your soil of nitrogen in the rotting process if you plan on using it
as a mulch.

Thanks a lot for that - I hadn't thought about it at all. I suppose I
was thinking about hay indeed. It's now by our pond on the lotty where
we sat and ate yesterday (this is definitely not an usual october day
at all). I had plan to mulch indeed - the strawbs for a start and use
the rest on the paths, but not until next year. There's very little
point now. Also I thought to use them as a gigantic planting pot for
flowers next years. Wouldn't it be ok to mulch the strawbs with it
though?

Don't waste it since you have it but if you want to buy hay in future
don't get this stuff and if it was sold to you as being "hay" rather
than "straw" then don't buy it at the same place again because they
don't know thier product. Lucerne (also known as alfalfa) hay is the
creme de la creme of hays but it's (relatively) expensive, clover or
meadow hay is next down the line in quality

Meadow hay would be my favourite. I just love the smell. I've never
used it because I don't find the need for it, but it conjures up
childhood memories, and buying one bale would be a little silly I
think... and I can imagine the face of the farmer! I'm also bang on in
the city centre and find it a bit odd to use such a material when I can
use other things. But if I need to mulch, I'll make sure it's not with
hay!

We got around 20 bales this summer for a project in the city centre. I
didn't buy it, I had enough to do with the research and design of the
project and cooked for the people's kitchen we ran. The bales are from
last summer (a farmer friend of a chap in our group) and was sold to us
on the cheap, there was lots of lil' spider's in it and some bettles
too ... I'm surprised we didn't find a mouse. Our project was to show
the variety of things one can do with straw bales - cooking, one made a
hole in it and slowly stewed some veges in a pot. It was already cooked
..... I think it would have taken us 2 days, if not longer, to cook the
stew )) We made structures, talked about the process of staw bale
houses, planted some strawbs in one and flowers in the other and mocked
about in them until late in the evening. The scene was sureal and we've
had lots of fun. I spent lots of time with these folks, we striped and
swam in rivers, we've explored many gardens and cook and ate and slept
under the stars. We came as one with our feelings about the sensuality
of the valleys, and forests, and fields, we've worked hard on many
gardens under a very hot sun and the whole experience has been one of
my life bestest moments.

Though if there's a river I've dreamt to throw myself into, it's still
the Blackwood River ;o)

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:46:11 +0100, tina wrote:

Well thats about 1/4 of the pebbles dug up & put to one side. Having
recently been diagnosed diabetic i can tell you all that digging is a
fantastic way of lowering ones blood sugar.

Would you advise me to remove all the pebbles first before digging
into the clay to mix in the pebbles or a trench at a time. (the clay
looks rock hard) :-(

p.s. I'm going to mix in compost from my 3 compost heaps. What mix
would you use? Equal amounts of clay, pebbles & compost or something
else?

Off for a nice soak in the bath now to sort my blistered palms out &
aching back.

No need to bother with my xmas diet now as all this excerise should
sort me out :-)

tina wrote:

Well thats about 1/4 of the pebbles dug up & put to one side. Having
recently been diagnosed diabetic i can tell you all that digging is a
fantastic way of lowering ones blood sugar.

Ditto. I'm done too .... Take away diner tonight. How grand is that ;o)
I thought of you actually. I've made my parsnip/carrots bed this
afternoon - crumbly and yummy patch which took me 2 and a half years to
achieve, on a clay area.

Would you advise me to remove all the pebbles first before digging
into the clay to mix in the pebbles or a trench at a time. (the clay
looks rock hard) :-(

You see, I didn't mention the pebbles before to you because I'm not
sure how big they are. I'm for ever removing stones in my plot/garden,
and I wouldn't advise to mix your good compost (which you didn't
mentioned before) with lots of pebbles.

I would remove all the pebbles, and use the grit instead and I would
break down the clay, that's for sure, and then add manure and then
compost, fork it in and let it rest for a couple of months. Let the
soil do it's stuff with the frost and the snow, hardening it and then
crumbling it. Also because of the grit and the stone, the clay has
harden. The exposure to it now with the new compost and manure will
help break it down. It will become easier to work. Then from the end of
January, when you get a good day, I'd start turning it over and add
more compost to top it up. Decide on your paths and then I'd plant.

"La Puce" wrote in message
ups.com...

snip
Though if there's a river I've dreamt to throw myself into, it's still
the Blackwood River ;o)


Try the Manchester ship canal--not far from your back door.

"tina" wrote in message

Would you advise me to remove all the pebbles first before digging
into the clay to mix in the pebbles or a trench at a time. (the
clay
looks rock hard) :-(

Water it and wait a few days then go back and have another go at it
when it's dried out a bit.

p.s. I'm going to mix in compost from my 3 compost heaps. What mix
would you use? Equal amounts of clay, pebbles & compost or something
else?

Pile it in and nay more you can get your hands on.

Off for a nice soak in the bath now to sort my blistered palms out &
aching back.

Sounds like you might have overdone it. :-(( Little and often works
just as well and if you do yourself some real damage you won't be able
to get back into it for ages. Be kind to yourself.

"La Puce" wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:
I meant to mention this yesterday and forgot. Hay is indeed
wonderful
stuff but that bale pictured in the cite you gave with the
beautiful
black cat is straw and not hay. Straw is good for very little
except
as bedding for animals. It has no real nutrient level so will rob
your soil of nitrogen in the rotting process if you plan on using
it
as a mulch.

Thanks a lot for that - I hadn't thought about it at all. I suppose
I
was thinking about hay indeed. It's now by our pond on the lotty
where
we sat and ate yesterday (this is definitely not an usual october
day
at all). I had plan to mulch indeed - the strawbs for a start and
use
the rest on the paths, but not until next year. There's very little
point now.

It could keep the heat in the soil for longer if you have anything
that is still growing and needs to do so for a while.

Also I thought to use them as a gigantic planting pot for
flowers next years.

Yep, it should be nicely starting to rot by then and you can then cut
a nice big spot in the middle for the flowers.

Wouldn't it be ok to mulch the strawbs with it
though?

Yep, don't waste it, just don't buy any more except for paths or low
grade mulching (like under trees where you've fertilised but just need
to protect the soil).

Don't waste it since you have it but if you want to buy hay in
future
don't get this stuff and if it was sold to you as being "hay"
rather
than "straw" then don't buy it at the same place again because
they
don't know thier product. Lucerne (also known as alfalfa) hay is
the
creme de la creme of hays but it's (relatively) expensive, clover
or
meadow hay is next down the line in quality

Meadow hay would be my favourite. I just love the smell. I've never
used it because I don't find the need for it, but it conjures up
childhood memories, and buying one bale would be a little silly I
think... and I can imagine the face of the farmer!

Look for supplies to the horse fraternity or for any supplier to
smallholders. They should have good quality hay that can be bought by
the bale

I'm also bang on in
the city centre and find it a bit odd to use such a material when I
can
use other things. But if I need to mulch, I'll make sure it's not
with
hay!

No, hay is good, straw is the one to avoid.

We got around 20 bales this summer for a project in the city centre.
I
didn't buy it, I had enough to do with the research and design of
the
project and cooked for the people's kitchen we ran.
Our project was to show
the variety of things one can do with straw bales - cooking, one
made a
hole in it and slowly stewed some veges in a pot. It was already
cooked
.... I think it would have taken us 2 days, if not longer, to cook
the
stew ))

Not 2 days. A well insulated and designed hay cooker should do the
job in about 12 hours if done right. If the ingredients are
adequately heated in the morning, and then put into the cooker, the
dish should be ready that night in a well insultated hay cooker.

We made structures, talked about the process of staw bale
houses,

I've always loved straw bale houses, much nicer feeling about them
TMWOT than either mud brick or stone houses. I just find the
traditonal "integrity" window a bit twee. It's obvious what the house
is made one for anyone who is interested so I just wonder why would
anyone would bother with the window. It spoils a good internal wall
for putting anything else in that position and potentially gives
access for vermin. Darn silly idea in my opinion.

Farm1 wrote:
No, hay is good, straw is the one to avoid.

g Ok. g

I've always loved straw bale houses, much nicer feeling about them
TMWOT than either mud brick or stone houses. I just find the
traditonal "integrity" window a bit twee. It's obvious what the house
is made one for anyone who is interested so I just wonder why would
anyone would bother with the window. It spoils a good internal wall
for putting anything else in that position and potentially gives
access for vermin. Darn silly idea in my opinion.

What window are you talking about. A windown to bring the fresh air in,
or the window 'straw bale wall example' we get at exhibition shows etc.
?

"La Puce" wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:

I've always loved straw bale houses, much nicer feeling about them
TMWOT than either mud brick or stone houses. I just find the
traditonal "integrity" window a bit twee. It's obvious what the
house
is made one for anyone who is interested so I just wonder why
would
anyone would bother with the window. It spoils a good internal
wall
for putting anything else in that position and potentially gives
access for vermin. Darn silly idea in my opinion.

What window are you talking about. A windown to bring the fresh air
in,

No.

or the window 'straw bale wall example' we get at exhibition shows
etc.

I don't know what you mean by this but an 'integrity' window is also
called a 'truth' window and it looks nothing like a window in reality.
It's really just a bit of the internal wall that is left unrendered
and which shows the strawbale in it's natural state. It's framed and
has glass on top so that it shows the straw through it.

Farm1 wrote:
I don't know what you mean by this but an 'integrity' window is also
called a 'truth' window and it looks nothing like a window in reality.
It's really just a bit of the internal wall that is left unrendered
and which shows the strawbale in it's natural state. It's framed and
has glass on top so that it shows the straw through it.

Yes, that's the one I thought you thought about ... I didn't know
they'd put one in an actual lived in house. I thought it was a
demonstration thing! And then I found your 'Truth window' in this
formidable book called Home Works Handbuilt Shelters which I had bought
for the archis I work with. It's written by Lloyd Khan and it's a
result of 30 years travelling around the world. It's a bit strange
indeed. But this one is in Mexico, with fine deco around it. Ta to make
me look into this again )

"La Puce" wrote in message
ups.com...

Farm1 wrote:
I don't know what you mean by this but an 'integrity' window is also
called a 'truth' window and it looks nothing like a window in reality.
It's really just a bit of the internal wall that is left unrendered
and which shows the strawbale in it's natural state. It's framed and
has glass on top so that it shows the straw through it.

Yes, that's the one I thought you thought about ... I didn't know
they'd put one in an actual lived in house. I thought it was a
demonstration thing! And then I found your 'Truth window' in this
formidable book called Home Works Handbuilt Shelters which I had bought
for the archis I work with. It's written by Lloyd Khan and it's a
result of 30 years travelling around the world. It's a bit strange
indeed. But this one is in Mexico, with fine deco around it. Ta to make
me look into this again )

Pictures at:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object...DD4J51.DTL&o=0

http://www.newtonhouse.info/forsale.htm (scroll down page...)

Jenny

JennyC wrote:
http://www.newtonhouse.info/forsale.htm (scroll down page...)

Forget the window. What about the loo!!! I'd just love a loo like that
)

"La Puce" wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:
I don't know what you mean by this but an 'integrity' window is
also
called a 'truth' window and it looks nothing like a window in
reality.
It's really just a bit of the internal wall that is left
unrendered
and which shows the strawbale in it's natural state. It's framed
and
has glass on top so that it shows the straw through it.

Yes, that's the one I thought you thought about ... I didn't know
they'd put one in an actual lived in house. I thought it was a
demonstration thing!

Commonly done here, but as I said, I think it's affected.