"Sue" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Sacha" wrote
snip
I don't think it really matters very much at all
but oregano is such an Italian-food-associated herb that it's the one
that springs most easily to mind in terms of pronunciation. The thing
I find most disconcerting about American pronunciation is the use of
'erbs' for 'herbs'!

'Ere, 'Iggins - pass me an 'andful of those 'erbs.

A, wats rong wiv clin erbs, erbs?

Alan


--
Sue

"Gill Matthews" account I no longer have wrote
in message ...

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" wrote after
"cineman"
Now back to gardening, here in West Midlands last night the temperature
climbed to 14 degrees C now for time of year that is positively
tropical. Global warming would be welcome if it wasnt for the High
blustery winds we have had for several days now,
Cineman


Agreed. As from now it looks like we will be discusing the onset of the
first High winds rather than the first frosts.
It's all rather daft at the moment--Bananas still growing outside in
December--in Bloomin Yorkshire.

and Hedgehogs still eating the cats leftover breakfast.

Oh! Ours seems to have gone into hibernation in the palais de hedgehog we
constructed for it

I haven't seen a hedgehog here for years.

Here being Windsor!

Alan


Gill M

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 7/12/06 11:49, in article
, "Des Higgins"
wrote:


"Sue" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Sacha" wrote
snip
I don't think it really matters very much at all
but oregano is such an Italian-food-associated herb that it's the one
that springs most easily to mind in terms of pronunciation. The thing
I find most disconcerting about American pronunciation is the use of
'erbs' for 'herbs'!

'Ere, 'Iggins - pass me an 'andful of those 'erbs.


In Ireland, a test of religion was supposedly to be asked what letter
came
after G in the alphabet.
Catholics said Haitch and Protestants said Aitch
according to ironic urban legend.
In Italy or France I get called Misstehrrrr Iggins and in Spain I get
called
Senor CCGGGHHHeeeeginns

Sounds like the supposedly true tale that Germans tested those whom they
thought to be English spies in France by getting them to say 'renard'.
The
received wisdom seemed to be that only those who had spoken French from
the
cradle could get it right!
But Aitch is correct because it's the only letter that has its own
definite
spelling and pronunciation in the dictionaries (AFAIK)
Pronouncing it 'haitch' has become more widespread but is incorrect and
maybe it's just me but I find it irritating!

Me too!

And when soap stars pronounce going goinggg!

Alan

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...

"Gill Matthews" account I no longer have wrote
in message ...

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" wrote after
"cineman"
Now back to gardening, here in West Midlands last night the
temperature climbed to 14 degrees C now for time of year that is
positively tropical. Global warming would be welcome if it wasnt for
the High blustery winds we have had for several days now,
Cineman


Agreed. As from now it looks like we will be discusing the onset of the
first High winds rather than the first frosts.
It's all rather daft at the moment--Bananas still growing outside in
December--in Bloomin Yorkshire.

and Hedgehogs still eating the cats leftover breakfast.

Oh! Ours seems to have gone into hibernation in the palais de hedgehog we
constructed for it

I haven't seen a hedgehog here for years.

Here being Windsor!

well we are just down the road in Caversham

"Gill Matthews" wrote after
"Alan Holmes" wrote after
"Gill Matthews" wrote after..
"Bob Hobden" wrote after
"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" wrote after
"cineman"
Now back to gardening, here in West Midlands last night the
temperature climbed to 14 degrees C now for time of year that is
positively tropical. Global warming would be welcome if it wasnt for
the High blustery winds we have had for several days now,
Cineman


Agreed. As from now it looks like we will be discusing the onset of
the first High winds rather than the first frosts.
It's all rather daft at the moment--Bananas still growing outside in
December--in Bloomin Yorkshire.

and Hedgehogs still eating the cats leftover breakfast.

Oh! Ours seems to have gone into hibernation in the palais de hedgehog
we constructed for it

I haven't seen a hedgehog here for years.

Here being Windsor!

well we are just down the road in Caversham

I'm a lot nearer to Windsor than that, about 5 miles downstream, and we
always have some around.

--
Regards
Bob H
17mls W. of London.UK

"Martin" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:
"cineman" wrote in message

You say teenus, I say Tienus
You say tinus i say thank goodness for the English language,
and
weather, It is what keeps folks talking round here.

Now back to gardening,

Since the discussion is about a garden plant, I didn't think that
we
were discussing any thing other than gardening.


Then you won't be interested in this photo of Victoria burning :-)

Silly lad! Just because I can see a connection between the
pronunciation of a gardening plant and gardening, doesn't mean that
I'm not interested in other things as well :-))


http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/New...es/SEAustralia
3_TMO_2006339_lrg.jpg

We went to the lower Snowy Mountains last weekend to do some trout
fishing and camped overnight in a State Forest in an inaccessible spot
down at the end of very rough dirt tracks that could ony be navigated
by 4x4. During the night we got the most amazing thunder and
lightening storm and the next morning the fire spotter plane came
overhead to locate the 18 fires which had been started by lightening.
The area where we camped would appear on the site you give (about due
west of the ACT outlined in fine black on that site).

Amazing site. Thanks for posting it. I think (from the very little
I've heard of these fires - been working when the news in on) that
Walhalla and Jamison in Vic are both in the rough line of these fires.

"Sue" wrote in message
"Des Higgins" wrote
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote Many people say TYnus
which
is probably "wrong" and is a very Anglophone pronunciation;

Even with an Irish line of ancestry I stills say Ty-nus.
snip
How about lichen?
Some same litchen but I always found liken to be much more manly
and
forceful; it is possible that both are wrong anyway.

This thread reminds me of an American woman discussing recipes,
talking
about about adding some ahrEGG-ano. It took me a few seconds to
realise
what she meant.

Here in Oz, there is one vineyard that sells a wine that is a Shiraz.
They've been in the wine buisness for about 150 years but they call it
SHYraz as do all the farmers in the area. Nice drop according to
those who drink and the vineyard has a good reputation nationally (and
internationally) but that's the name one hears if buying it at the
cellar door shop.

"Sacha" wrote in

I pronounced it the 'English' way until I acquired the mother in
law! I
now have the reverse problem in that when I pronounce it Italian
fashion in
shops, or here in the nursery, English people look at me as if I'm
quite
mad. I need reverse brainwashing, or something!
I sometimes find myself in the interesting but confusing position of
pronouncing something the way mil did only for my brother's Italian
wife to
tell me that mil had lived in England too long and one does NOT
pronounce
whatever-it-is that way. I don't think it really matters very much
at all
but oregano is such an Italian-food-associated herb that it's the
one that
springs most easily to mind in terms of pronunciation. The thing I
find
most disconcerting about American pronunciation is the use of 'erbs'
for
'herbs'!

It seems that you might be an appropriate person to ask..... As you'd
know, there is a huge Italian population here in Oz. Since they
(mostly) migrated from Italy about 50 or 60 years ago, the tradition
of Italian cooking remains strong (I've had Italo-Australians tell me
that on return trips to Italy, the food was ghastly in comparison to
the Italian meals they can get in restaurants or homes here).

There are a number of suburban Italian gardens in a small city near me
that I always detour past in order to see what they are up to when
roughly going in certain directions. The productivity and range of
food plants they can produce on a quarter acre block always astounds
and amazes me - they grow food on every available square inch and
sometimes even on the road verges.

One elderly Italian lady has such a garden near where my daughter
lives. Her English is not very good, but I have conversations with
her occasionally. In one of these conversations, I was trying to ask
her about why she grew so much Oregano (2 rows that stretched for
about 30 ft right behind her front fence). She said that she waited
till they had flowered and then did something culinary with the seed?
or the flower heads?, but I couldn't figure out what it was she said
that she did. I've been meaning to get my chef neighbour who may
know, or if she doesn't, to ask her Nonna what it could be. Do you
have any idea?

"Gill Matthews" account I no longer have
wrote in message

Oh! Ours seems to have gone into hibernation in the palais de
hedgehog we
constructed for it

What does a hedgehog palace look like?

The Australian Echidna also has a spiny back and is a marsupial which
I think is pretty much unique to this region of the world. So what
family of animals does a hedgehog belong to?

"Cat(h)" wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:

Would anyone like to have a go at putting on screen how they
pronouce
tinus?

IMHO every language has its own bias in pronoucing latin words - and
seen as latin is no longer a spoken language, there is only a very
limited ability to provide a "correct" benchmark.

Yep, agreed. I know that from my own (limited) attempts to learn
Latin.

Hence, anglophones will pronouced Viburnum "Vaybernem", while an
frog
such as yours truly would say "Veeburnum" (french narrow u). This
is
because "i" can sound like "aye" in English in certain positions
within
words, while "i" will never be pronounced that way. Similarly, the
French would not naturally pronounce "u" like "ou", though when we
are
taugh latin, we are taught that u in latin is to be pronounced ou.
We
are also told that c is hard in all cases (if memory serves me
right),
which it is not in French, etc.
Sorry if this sounds a little confused: the point I am making is
that
while there may be some official pronounciation standard for latin,
it
often falls down in the face of the person's own language bias.

For those reasons, i have limited patience for those who try to
correct
one-another in their pronounciation of what is after all a dead
language :-)

Having said all that, how do you pronounce "tinus"?

"Des Higgins" wrote in message

Most people in Ireland say haitch and have done so for many years.
If you
say aitch here you sound pretentious (or protestant :-).
Pronunciations change over time and space. Some Oirish
pronunciations (e.g.
tay for tea and daycent for decent) are actually fossilised
Elizabethan
pronunciations but now sound ignorant and paddyish to UK ears.

Some time ago, I was listening to an etymologist on the radio who was
talking about this very subject. Although she didn't specifically say
so, many of the historic pronunications of words that she gave as
examples, sounded exactly as Americans still pronounce them - ie,
Britain had been the place where the change had taken place (in the
18thC) but the original pronunciation had remained the same in the US.
One example I specifiaclly remember was the pronunciation of the word
"bath" - the long 'a' had changed to a more clipped one in the UK but
not in the US.

On 8/12/06 05:47, in article
, "Farm1"
please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:
snip

One elderly Italian lady has such a garden near where my daughter
lives. Her English is not very good, but I have conversations with
her occasionally. In one of these conversations, I was trying to ask
her about why she grew so much Oregano (2 rows that stretched for
about 30 ft right behind her front fence). She said that she waited
till they had flowered and then did something culinary with the seed?
or the flower heads?, but I couldn't figure out what it was she said
that she did. I've been meaning to get my chef neighbour who may
know, or if she doesn't, to ask her Nonna what it could be. Do you
have any idea?

I don't know about using the seeds in cooking but perhaps she keeps them to
re-sow each year for her new crop. I'll ask over on the food group because
there is an American there who lives in Italy and runs cookery classes. I'm
sure she'll know.
The Italians and their 'orto' are fantastic. If you read Under the Tuscan
Sun by Frances Mayes, she talks about Italian food in it quite regularly and
one of the features is of older Italian women - the Nonnas - gathering wild
herbs, wild asparagus, wild sorrel, wild fennel and goodness knows what
else. They waste nothing.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

On 8/12/06 06:03, in article
, "Farm1"
please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

"Des Higgins" wrote in message

Most people in Ireland say haitch and have done so for many years.
If you
say aitch here you sound pretentious (or protestant :-).
Pronunciations change over time and space. Some Oirish
pronunciations (e.g.
tay for tea and daycent for decent) are actually fossilised
Elizabethan
pronunciations but now sound ignorant and paddyish to UK ears.

Some time ago, I was listening to an etymologist on the radio who was
talking about this very subject. Although she didn't specifically say
so, many of the historic pronunications of words that she gave as
examples, sounded exactly as Americans still pronounce them - ie,
Britain had been the place where the change had taken place (in the
18thC) but the original pronunciation had remained the same in the US.
One example I specifiaclly remember was the pronunciation of the word
"bath" - the long 'a' had changed to a more clipped one in the UK but
not in the US.

Bill Bryson wrote about this in one of his books. "Made in America", I
think.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"Gill Matthews" account I no longer have
wrote in message

Oh! Ours seems to have gone into hibernation in the palais de
hedgehog we
constructed for it

What does a hedgehog palace look like?

http://tinyurl.com/yf8kjp
or http://www.schwegler-nature.com/Hedgehog/index.htm


The Australian Echidna also has a spiny back and is a marsupial which
I think is pretty much unique to this region of the world. So what
family of animals does a hedgehog belong to?

=Erinaceinae from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog

We occasionally get a hedgehog here in our city garden :~))


Jenny

Farm1 wrote:
"Cat(h)" wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:

Would anyone like to have a go at putting on screen how they
pronouce
tinus?

IMHO every language has its own bias in pronoucing latin words - and
seen as latin is no longer a spoken language, there is only a very
limited ability to provide a "correct" benchmark.

Yep, agreed. I know that from my own (limited) attempts to learn
Latin.


Having said all that, how do you pronounce "tinus"?

I would say teenus - just don't ask me why :-)
BTW, I would say Vayebernem, too, because I've been here just *too*
long, and only got interested in gardening since becoming a full-time
anglophone :-)

Cat(h)