On 6/12/06 13:15, in article
ws.net, "Sue"
wrote:


"Des Higgins" wrote
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote Many people say TYnus which
is probably "wrong" and is a very Anglophone pronunciation;

Even with an Irish line of ancestry I stills say Ty-nus.
snip
How about lichen?
Some same litchen but I always found liken to be much more manly and
forceful; it is possible that both are wrong anyway.

This thread reminds me of an American woman discussing recipes, talking
about about adding some ahrEGG-ano. It took me a few seconds to realise
what she meant.

Correct though but with more of an 'o' sound at the start. My Italian
mother in law used to go mad at the way the English pronounce it OregAAAno
and say Pinokio and Michael Angelo. ;-)

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 6/12/06 13:15, in article
ws.net, "Sue"
wrote:


"Des Higgins" wrote
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote Many people say TYnus which
is probably "wrong" and is a very Anglophone pronunciation;

Even with an Irish line of ancestry I stills say Ty-nus.
snip
How about lichen?
Some same litchen but I always found liken to be much more manly and
forceful; it is possible that both are wrong anyway.

This thread reminds me of an American woman discussing recipes, talking
about about adding some ahrEGG-ano. It took me a few seconds to realise
what she meant.

Correct though but with more of an 'o' sound at the start. My Italian
mother in law used to go mad at the way the English pronounce it OregAAAno
and say Pinokio and Michael Angelo. ;-)


And more labiatae: BAYsil instead of BAHsil is very American (bahs-ill-ikko
in Italian?)
Pronouncing A like AY in Hay is very Anglophone and especially in US.
In most Euro languages I know A is just Ahh unless you stick dots or funny
bits around it to change it.
In German you get Ay from an A with an umlaut (2 dots) and some of these
umlaut pronuncaitions seem to have gone into English but only in some words.

Your Oregano pronunciation has me guilty now. I would have said the US
or-egg-ano was wrong so live and learn.


--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

On 6/12/06 14:35, in article
, "Des Higgins"
wrote:

snip

Correct though but with more of an 'o' sound at the start. My Italian
mother in law used to go mad at the way the English pronounce it OregAAAno
and say Pinokio and Michael Angelo. ;-)


And more labiatae: BAYsil instead of BAHsil is very American (bahs-ill-ikko
in Italian?)
Pronouncing A like AY in Hay is very Anglophone and especially in US.
In most Euro languages I know A is just Ahh unless you stick dots or funny
bits around it to change it.
In German you get Ay from an A with an umlaut (2 dots) and some of these
umlaut pronuncaitions seem to have gone into English but only in some words.

Your Oregano pronunciation has me guilty now. I would have said the US
or-egg-ano was wrong so live and learn.


I pronounced it the 'English' way until I acquired the mother in law! I
now have the reverse problem in that when I pronounce it Italian fashion in
shops, or here in the nursery, English people look at me as if I'm quite
mad. I need reverse brainwashing, or something!
I sometimes find myself in the interesting but confusing position of
pronouncing something the way mil did only for my brother's Italian wife to
tell me that mil had lived in England too long and one does NOT pronounce
whatever-it-is that way. I don't think it really matters very much at all
but oregano is such an Italian-food-associated herb that it's the one that
springs most easily to mind in terms of pronunciation. The thing I find
most disconcerting about American pronunciation is the use of 'erbs' for
'herbs'!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

Des Higgins writes


And more labiatae: BAYsil instead of BAHsil is very American (bahs-ill-ikko
in Italian?)
Pronouncing A like AY in Hay is very Anglophone and especially in US.
In most Euro languages I know A is just Ahh unless you stick dots or funny
bits around it to change it.
In German you get Ay from an A with an umlaut (2 dots) and some of these
umlaut pronuncaitions seem to have gone into English but only in some words.

Your Oregano pronunciation has me guilty now. I would have said the US
or-egg-ano was wrong so live and learn.

I'd be surprised if the genus was orEGGanum rather than oregAHnum, so we
are just following the pronunciation of the genus.
--
Kay

Farm1 writes
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message

By the same token, and according to my Latin dictionary, Pinus (as
in
P. sylvestris, etc.) should be pronounced Peenus, which leads into
very dangerous territory with pronunciations such as Peenus contorta
or Peenus parviflora Adcock's Dwarf.

LOL The mind simply boggles at the thought!

Pity the people who live in Penistone (1)




(1) Which is, for obvious reasons, pronounced " penny stone"

--
Kay

"Sacha" wrote after
"Bob Hobden" wrote:

and Hedgehogs still eating the cats leftover breakfast.

The local newspaper tells us that owing to the long and warm end to the
summer, hedgehogs had three litters rather than two. This last litter is
finding it hard to get food - apparently - and the sanctuaries are
receiving
hitherto unknown numbers of hoglets needing food and shelter. As
hedgehogs
are already under stress for habitat and food, keeping an eye open for
them
now and as it gets colder - if it does - would be a Good Idea.


Yes, we did see some rather small ones in our front garden early on in the
autumn but only once. This one that comes to eat most nights is quite big
and I would have thought big enough to hibernate.

--
Regards
Bob H
17mls W. of London.UK

On 6/12/06 17:30, in article , "Bob
Hobden" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote after
"Bob Hobden" wrote:

and Hedgehogs still eating the cats leftover breakfast.

The local newspaper tells us that owing to the long and warm end to the
summer, hedgehogs had three litters rather than two. This last litter is
finding it hard to get food - apparently - and the sanctuaries are
receiving
hitherto unknown numbers of hoglets needing food and shelter. As
hedgehogs
are already under stress for habitat and food, keeping an eye open for
them
now and as it gets colder - if it does - would be a Good Idea.


Yes, we did see some rather small ones in our front garden early on in the
autumn but only once. This one that comes to eat most nights is quite big
and I would have thought big enough to hibernate.

We're also told some are not hibernating yet, so feeding is probably a very
good idea.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" wrote after
"cineman"
Now back to gardening, here in West Midlands last night the temperature
climbed to 14 degrees C now for time of year that is positively
tropical. Global warming would be welcome if it wasnt for the High
blustery winds we have had for several days now,
Cineman


Agreed. As from now it looks like we will be discusing the onset of the
first High winds rather than the first frosts.
It's all rather daft at the moment--Bananas still growing outside in
December--in Bloomin Yorkshire.

and Hedgehogs still eating the cats leftover breakfast.

Oh! Ours seems to have gone into hibernation in the palais de hedgehog we
constructed for it

Gill M

"Sacha" wrote
snip
I don't think it really matters very much at all
but oregano is such an Italian-food-associated herb that it's the one
that springs most easily to mind in terms of pronunciation. The thing
I find most disconcerting about American pronunciation is the use of
'erbs' for 'herbs'!

'Ere, 'Iggins - pass me an 'andful of those 'erbs.

--
Sue

On 6/12/06 22:32, in article
ws.net, "Sue"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote
snip
I don't think it really matters very much at all
but oregano is such an Italian-food-associated herb that it's the one
that springs most easily to mind in terms of pronunciation. The thing
I find most disconcerting about American pronunciation is the use of
'erbs' for 'herbs'!

'Ere, 'Iggins - pass me an 'andful of those 'erbs.

That's about it - and one day, 'iggins will say "Nahhhhh"! ;-))

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

"Sue" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Sacha" wrote
snip
I don't think it really matters very much at all
but oregano is such an Italian-food-associated herb that it's the one
that springs most easily to mind in terms of pronunciation. The thing
I find most disconcerting about American pronunciation is the use of
'erbs' for 'herbs'!

'Ere, 'Iggins - pass me an 'andful of those 'erbs.


In Ireland, a test of religion was supposedly to be asked what letter came
after G in the alphabet.
Catholics said Haitch and Protestants said Aitch
according to ironic urban legend.
In Italy or France I get called Misstehrrrr Iggins and in Spain I get called
Senor CCGGGHHHeeeeginns

--
Sue

Farm1 wrote:
Just curious, I heard someone on the radio teh other day talking about
Viburnum tinus and they pronouced tinus in a way I'd never heard
before ao it made me wonder if I've been doign it wrong for all these
years.

Would anyone like to have a go at putting on screen how they pronouce
tinus?

IMHO every language has its own bias in pronoucing latin words - and
seen as latin is no longer a spoken language, there is only a very
limited ability to provide a "correct" benchmark.

Hence, anglophones will pronouced Viburnum "Vaybernem", while an frog
such as yours truly would say "Veeburnum" (french narrow u). This is
because "i" can sound like "aye" in English in certain positions within
words, while "i" will never be pronounced that way. Similarly, the
French would not naturally pronounce "u" like "ou", though when we are
taugh latin, we are taught that u in latin is to be pronounced ou. We
are also told that c is hard in all cases (if memory serves me right),
which it is not in French, etc.
Sorry if this sounds a little confused: the point I am making is that
while there may be some official pronounciation standard for latin, it
often falls down in the face of the person's own language bias.

For those reasons, i have limited patience for those who try to correct
one-another in their pronounciation of what is after all a dead
language :-)

Cat(h)

On 7/12/06 11:49, in article
, "Des Higgins"
wrote:


"Sue" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Sacha" wrote
snip
I don't think it really matters very much at all
but oregano is such an Italian-food-associated herb that it's the one
that springs most easily to mind in terms of pronunciation. The thing
I find most disconcerting about American pronunciation is the use of
'erbs' for 'herbs'!

'Ere, 'Iggins - pass me an 'andful of those 'erbs.


In Ireland, a test of religion was supposedly to be asked what letter came
after G in the alphabet.
Catholics said Haitch and Protestants said Aitch
according to ironic urban legend.
In Italy or France I get called Misstehrrrr Iggins and in Spain I get called
Senor CCGGGHHHeeeeginns

Sounds like the supposedly true tale that Germans tested those whom they
thought to be English spies in France by getting them to say 'renard'. The
received wisdom seemed to be that only those who had spoken French from the
cradle could get it right!
But Aitch is correct because it's the only letter that has its own definite
spelling and pronunciation in the dictionaries (AFAIK)
Pronouncing it 'haitch' has become more widespread but is incorrect and
maybe it's just me but I find it irritating!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 7/12/06 11:49, in article
, "Des Higgins"
wrote:


"Sue" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Sacha" wrote
snip
I don't think it really matters very much at all
but oregano is such an Italian-food-associated herb that it's the one
that springs most easily to mind in terms of pronunciation. The thing
I find most disconcerting about American pronunciation is the use of
'erbs' for 'herbs'!

'Ere, 'Iggins - pass me an 'andful of those 'erbs.


In Ireland, a test of religion was supposedly to be asked what letter
came
after G in the alphabet.
Catholics said Haitch and Protestants said Aitch
according to ironic urban legend.
In Italy or France I get called Misstehrrrr Iggins and in Spain I get
called
Senor CCGGGHHHeeeeginns

Sounds like the supposedly true tale that Germans tested those whom they
thought to be English spies in France by getting them to say 'renard'.
The
received wisdom seemed to be that only those who had spoken French from
the
cradle could get it right!
But Aitch is correct because it's the only letter that has its own
definite
spelling and pronunciation in the dictionaries (AFAIK)
Pronouncing it 'haitch' has become more widespread but is incorrect and
maybe it's just me but I find it irritating!

Most people in Ireland say haitch and have done so for many years. If you
say aitch here you sound pretentious (or protestant :-).
Pronunciations change over time and space. Some Oirish pronunciations (e.g.
tay for tea and daycent for decent) are actually fossilised Elizabethan
pronunciations but now sound ignorant and paddyish to UK ears. Some sounds
do annoy me alright but some are just part of diversity to be enjoyed.
In Ireland, fake Hollywood pronunciations and accents kill me but that is
just me getting old (like characters from Friends) or people trying to hide
Irish or working class Dublin accents with what sounds posh but comes out
mangled.

Anyway I have decide that I will still refuse to say orEGGano :-)

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

On 7/12/06 13:02, in article
, "Des Higgins"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
snip
But Aitch is correct because it's the only letter that has its own
definite
spelling and pronunciation in the dictionaries (AFAIK)
Pronouncing it 'haitch' has become more widespread but is incorrect and
maybe it's just me but I find it irritating!

Most people in Ireland say haitch and have done so for many years. If you
say aitch here you sound pretentious (or protestant :-).
Pronunciations change over time and space. Some Oirish pronunciations (e.g.
tay for tea and daycent for decent) are actually fossilised Elizabethan
pronunciations but now sound ignorant and paddyish to UK ears. Some sounds
do annoy me alright but some are just part of diversity to be enjoyed.
In Ireland, fake Hollywood pronunciations and accents kill me but that is
just me getting old (like characters from Friends) or people trying to hide
Irish or working class Dublin accents with what sounds posh but comes out
mangled.

Anyway I have decide that I will still refuse to say orEGGano :-)

I remember the haitch thing from the Irish nuns at the convent school I went
to and that was a definite regional thing and somehow all part of them
talking about 'a scissor' or 'the press' when they meant a cupboard. The
use of 'haitch' that I'm thinking about is the apparent current use of that
by people from all over the country, as opposed to a regional foible.
Just remember when you go to Italy that you'll get some funny looks with
your Oregaaaaaano. ;-))
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/