On 14/5/07 19:17, in article
, "La Puce"
wrote:

On 14 May, 17:04, Sacha wrote:
On 14/5/07 11:57, in article
If you had ever learned something about business and having to make a
profit, you might be a bit more realistic. As it is, you've made a bloody
fool of yourself yet again and hair-trigger finger, as ever on the keyboard,
you couldn't wait to tear into me. In your fervour, you don't stop to
think about several idiocies you've uttered or that you don't run a
profit-making business, so do not have to concern yourself with your
abilities to do so - or not. Getting your salary from public money must be
one of the easiest ways to keep a roof over your head.

Sleeping with the rich twenty years your senior twice has put a roof
over your head. Don't push it you despicable sad old bag.


1. My ex-husband, who died at 49, was 2 years younger than me.
2. My present husband, is 14 years older than me.
3. I have my own money, own a house of my own and am financially dependent
on nobody. In other word, Mrs Rudlin, I don't owe my income to sleeping
with any man and living off his connections or public money.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)
Devon County Show 17-19 May
http://www.devoncountyshow.co.uk/

Sorry for a stupid question but what sand do you use? as they are mainly two types, builders sand and also sharp sand (or dont it matter) also what the ratio of sand to the compost please.

Thanks

On 14/5/07 09:59, in article
, "La Puce"
wrote:

On 13 May, 19:40, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
Hi,
I have been using J Arthur Bower's John Innes seed compost, and I don't like
it much - the peat is not sieved, and it doesn't seem to drain properly.
I only use about 5 to 10 litres of seed compost per year, so within reason
cost isn't an issue - can anyone recommend something better, for general
use?
Next years seedlings will thank you! , as do I,

Hullo. I use Gem organic

Is Gem making a profit?
Gem*Multi-Purpose Compost
Price (£)
4.99
Specification
Type
Peat-based multi-purpose
Main ingredients
Peat (90%)


--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)
Devon County Show 17-19 May
http://www.devoncountyshow.co.uk/

"La Puce" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 14 May, 14:15, "Charlie Pridham"
wrote:
..

As for the no, not all peat free compost are based on coir. Coir was
used by gardeners before peat was and in 1951 it was said to be second
best to peat (Kew uses it for seeds). Some plants prefer it too, such
as fushias. The coconut fibres compost are imported from Sri Lanka, so
yes it has some transport issue - however you cannot compare its air
mile to the release of carbon.

You are kidding of course?
There is an issue with habitat destruction but a plant in peat probebly
reduces carbon not increases it, left where it is peat is stored carbon,
extracted its still stored carbon, put a plant in it and the plant grows and
absorbs some carbon!
Peat extraction only causes a rise in atmospheric carbon if its burnt in
power stations etc.



Well that is just brilliant. But don't for a moment think that the air
the green lobby breathes in is not the same as yours ;o)

and your computer pollutes as much as mine :~)


It doesn't lay down faster

Yes it does

point that peat in Finland is being used for energy since it releases
less carbon than fossil fuel.

So does Ireland but I think you will find in each case they do it because
they have lots and its cheap to extract!


Off course not, but when it's something that we don't need, like peat,
something that we can go without, why do damage to use it when it is
not really required?! That is the only point I'm trying to make.

There you have the problem, You personely do not need peat so you think its
ok to stop everyone using it, I bet you work in an office with light
heat/air conditioning and loads of electric equipment and synthetics, yet
thats ok because its your job, it doesn't matter to me if you freeze in
winter and roast in summer so I do not need you to have it and the
enviroment would be better if we turned you off, but you would hardly
consider it fair.


Hmmm... perhaps I was getting muddled there in my thoughts. I can see
lots of garden centres using peat because it produces a fast growing
plant, attractive to buyers and the buyers, if naive, would think they
have something good on their hands because the plant looks great and
it's in peat. Once the plant is moved into another medium, it
struggles. So many people have asked me why the plant they got at
Woolworth drooped and floped after planting in ordinary compost. Well,
the plant was saturated and at an early stage - the growing was faster
but that didn't produced a sturdy plant, it produced a quick plant. If
you're an amateur you just wouldn't know. In this way you produce lots
of good looking plants in peat, with very little failure, hence my
thoughts on profits to the loss of our environment.

The reason so many plants fail from garden centres and outlets like woolies
is not bad plants but that they come from the wholsale production nurseries
and are then abused and mistreated, they are never hardened off properly,
never watered properly, and in many cases are expected to be in low light
levels in a box or bag, and if they remain unsold are not repotted. If
people did it to any other living thing like a dog or cat they would be
prosecuted.
Many large scale producers put no food in the compost (often but not always
peat) but instead supply the plants regular liquid feed, the moment it
leaves them it starts to suffer unless looked after.

I don't expect to convert you, I just think you should be a bit more
thoughtful as to the consequences of what you say.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 14/5/07 08:17, in article , "Charlie
Pridham" wrote:


"Peter Fairbrother" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have been using J Arthur Bower's John Innes seed compost, and I don't
like
it much - the peat is not sieved, and it doesn't seem to drain
properly.

I only use about 5 to 10 litres of seed compost per year, so within
reason
cost isn't an issue - can anyone recommend something better, for
general
use?


Next years seedlings will thank you! , as do I,


--
Peter Fairbrother

I prefer a seed compost with added sand so will either buy Levingtons
seed
compost or add sand to a multipurpose, we are (or try to be) peat free
and I
must say that bark based peat free compost is rubbish for seed
germination!

has anyone tried using straight mushroom compost?

I have a bag I am considering trying out. It does have some chicken poop
mixed in apparently which may be a little rich for seedlings.

rob

In message , Charlie Pridham
writes

"La Puce" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 14 May, 14:15, "Charlie Pridham"
wrote:
.

As for the no, not all peat free compost are based on coir. Coir was
used by gardeners before peat was and in 1951 it was said to be second
best to peat (Kew uses it for seeds). Some plants prefer it too, such
as fushias. The coconut fibres compost are imported from Sri Lanka, so
yes it has some transport issue - however you cannot compare its air
mile to the release of carbon.

You are kidding of course?

One would need actual numbers to compare the CO2 release from the use of
peat with the CO2 release from the fuel used to transport coir.

There is an issue with habitat destruction but a plant in peat probebly
reduces carbon not increases it, left where it is peat is stored carbon,
extracted its still stored carbon, put a plant in it and the plant grows and
absorbs some carbon!
Peat extraction only causes a rise in atmospheric carbon if its burnt in
power stations etc.


It's far from that simple. Peat dug into the soil doesn't just lie
there; it oxidises, releasing CO2. Extracting peat also results in the
drying out of the source and additional oxidation. On the other hand
extracting peat brings the surface belong the water table, and promotes
further peat formation.


Well that is just brilliant. But don't for a moment think that the air
the green lobby breathes in is not the same as yours ;o)

and your computer pollutes as much as mine :~)


It doesn't lay down faster

Yes it does

point that peat in Finland is being used for energy since it releases
less carbon than fossil fuel.

So does Ireland but I think you will find in each case they do it because
they have lots and its cheap to extract!

Using peat for electricity production probably releases more carbon per
kilowatt hour than fossil fuels. The two factors which are relevant here
are the carbon to hydrogen ratio of the fuel (natural gas is the best
here) and coal the worse, and the energy costs of extracting and drying
the fuel. For the former I'd expect that peat lies between oil and coal.
I'd further guesstimate that the energy cost of drying out the peat
makes is worse that coal. (But perhaps not as bad as tar sands or oil
shales.)

To the degree that peat is treated as a renewable resource, then like
biomass as a power station fuel, it is carbon-neutral. But if it's
extracted faster than it's forming then the above applies.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...
In message , Charlie Pridham
writes

"La Puce" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 14 May, 14:15, "Charlie Pridham"
wrote:
To the degree that peat is treated as a renewable resource, then like
biomass as a power station fuel, it is carbon-neutral. But if it's
extracted faster than it's forming then the above applies.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

My understanding is that in certain areas they are able to extract in a
sustainable way with the peat reforming at the same rate as they extract it
(this seems particularly true of moss peat's rather than Sedge peat's),
while
other bogs are not able to be harvested in this way and should therefore be
protected. The companies extracting have also been able to modify the
methods used to enable faster replacement and are having to look to
sustainable methods as new licences are increasingly difficult to obtain.

It seems most things we do in the environment would be fine if there were
not so many of us doing it, and there seem to be no volunteers to be the
first to stop :~)
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...


It seems most things we do in the environment would be fine if there were
not so many of us doing it, and there seem to be no volunteers to be the
first to stop :~)

Oh there are plenty of us who are prepared to stop breeding, check out the
link below for info on the The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement.

The trouble is there are people like the Duggars (see second link) who are
determined to do nothing but breed until the relevant bits fall off.

http://www.vhemt.org/

http://www.duggarfamily.com/faq.html
--
Rhiannon_s
Due to it's large carbon footprint the light at the end of the tunnel has
been turned off.

"Rhiannon S" wrote in message
...


"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...


It seems most things we do in the environment would be fine if there were
not so many of us doing it, and there seem to be no volunteers to be the
first to stop :~)

Oh there are plenty of us who are prepared to stop breeding, check out the
link below for info on the The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement.


At least it is 'Voluntary' and of their own accord, unlike Hitler who
exterminated certain breeds :-((

Mike


--
The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association if you served in the Electrical Branch of the Royal Navy
Reunion Bournemouth August/September 2007
www.rneba.org.uk

On 15 May, 09:49, "Charlie Pridham"
wrote:
You are kidding of course?
There is an issue with habitat destruction but a plant in peat probebly
reduces carbon not increases it, left where it is peat is stored carbon,
extracted its still stored carbon, put a plant in it and the plant grows and
absorbs some carbon!

No - extract it and you erode and release lots of carbon!

Peat extraction only causes a rise in atmospheric carbon if its burnt in
power stations etc.

That is not what we have been led to beleive at all. This is not what
we are basing all our facts on peat erosion. We've been told that all
the peat bogs held together contain 70 years of global industrial
emmissions. Moving them to extract peat for gardeners start the
process of erosion hence the release of carbon and add to the climate
warming issues that we have.

Now, no, I cannot prove it to you - I'm not a scientist and that's not
my field. But this is what we beleive, here, in my company where we
work with many companies in the field of sustainability. And the peat
they are burning in Finland is mixed with wood - it is not pure.

In any case, it is terrible and peat shouldn't be used, nor touch, nor
sold especially for environmental project. It's far too hypocritical.
That is something I'd like to hear from you because I'm not too sure
what you are trying to proove to me and not to sure what you want to
hear from me. I will not change my mind. Using peat is wrong. And I
don't care if Russia has 500 square kilometres of the stuff. Lets stop
climate warming. Full stop.

and your computer pollutes as much as mine :~)

Wait till Bill Gates comes up with computers made of recycling stuff.
He's working on it at the moment with Gore would you beleive ;o)

It doesn't lay down faster
Yes it does

How? Does it skip a thousand year? Don't tell me because it rains more
there ... could it be?

point that peat in Finland is being used for energy since it releases
less carbon than fossil fuel.
So does Ireland but I think you will find in each case they do it because
they have lots and its cheap to extract!

Hurmph.... but it's still wrong.

Off course not, but when it's something that we don't need, like peat,
something that we can go without, why do damage to use it when it is
not really required?! That is the only point I'm trying to make.

There you have the problem, You personely do not need peat so you think its
ok to stop everyone using it,

That is not a problem that I have. I grow all my vegs from seeds and I
never use peat. I simply don't need it and I know that it is not
necessary because I successfully grow them every year without using
peat. I'm not too sure how much more you need before you realise that
you will not make me admit that 1. peat is good for the environment
and 2. that we need it. We simply don't need it. You certainly don't
anymore. Don't you.

I bet you work in an office with light
heat/air conditioning and loads of electric equipment and synthetics,

Hehehe.... no, no and no. I work in an old mill, no heating beside
original pipes on one side with hot water flowing through them and
that's totally rubbish as it doesn't heat at all, no fake ceilings, no
carpets - just bricks and steel and 2K square foot of 200 years old
wonderful timber. 29 windows on each side, freezing cold in winter and
too hot in summer. However, looking at insulating the roof, we're on
the top floor (waiting for my lease to be accepted for another 5
years, in August, before investing in something so costly). We feel
wrong to see all the heat escaping above our heads. Lights are all
allogen, yes, we have computers off course. We've made over 1.5
millions turnover last year, you don't imagine us sending pigeons to
our clients now would you.

We have the best recycling office around and have been advising via
the Cooperative Trust a project The Carbon Trust to advice businesses
to reduce, reuse etc. We are also making a 'Seven Step' challenge to
change. All our equipment from the cello tape to tea towels we use
are researched before purchasing. I'm sure we do wrong things, we're
not perfect, but at least we try. And it's fun.

yet
thats ok because its your job, it doesn't matter to me if you freeze in
winter and roast in summer so I do not need you to have it and the
enviroment would be better if we turned you off, but you would hardly
consider it fair.

Spot on. I do freeze in winter and roast in the summer. It's healthy
anyway ;o)

The reason so many plants fail from garden centres and outlets like woolies
is not bad plants but that they come from the wholsale production nurseries
and are then abused and mistreated, they are never hardened off properly,
never watered properly, and in many cases are expected to be in low light
levels in a box or bag, and if they remain unsold are not repotted. If
people did it to any other living thing like a dog or cat they would be
prosecuted.

Indeed. It hurts me as much as if it was done to a cat or a dog ... or
cows, chickens etc. The point indeed is profit. And nothing else.
Hence me saying all along that resorting to peat, chemicals etc. to
aid a sale regardless of the product after care is wrong.

I don't expect to convert you, I just think you should be a bit more
thoughtful as to the consequences of what you say.

I have a reputation to say what I think. Perhaps too fast but I never
go back on my words. Especially written ones. And it's good to talk to
you.

I use the cheapest multi-purpose compost I can buy - usually about a fiver for a great fat 145 litre bag from B&Q or Homebase - and I always (underlined!) sieve it.

I then use the "nuts" from the sieving as a drainage layer in the bottom of the pot, and as an anti-pan mulch on the top. It works out well!

For seedlings I use the compost as sieved, and for potting on I add a small sprinkle of slow-release fertiliser granules, on the grounds that I think seeds germinate/grow better in a fairly poor "soil". Oh, and for seedlings I omit the top mulch layer, assuming that it might be too much work for their little heads to push the "nuts" aside.

And yes, the compost is peat-based: I have tried non-peat based and find them to be very poor, both in nutrient content (as evidenced by plant growth) and in structure, being very hard to "wet" adequately.

I don't add any water retention granules or anything fancy.

I find I get the most reliable results using those propogaters with water in the bottom and capillary matting: they seem to work just as well outdoors as indoors, and if you forget the watering for a few days, it's not a disaster!

Hope this helps.

PS Sacha, what's ZooPoo?

Peter Fairbrother wrote:

I have been using J Arthur Bower's John Innes seed compost, and I don't like
it much - the peat is not sieved, and it doesn't seem to drain properly.

I only use about 5 to 10 litres of seed compost per year, so within reason
cost isn't an issue - can anyone recommend something better, for general
use?


Next years seedlings will thank you! , as do I,

All sorts of stuff in reply. I'm surprized no one has mentioned leaf
mould. I mix leaf mould and riddled turf loam, a little extra
horticultural sand. I used to sterilise small amounts for seeds, but don't
bother now. Yes you get flush of weed seeds - but they can be weeded.
Costs very little other than a bit of organising and I've always got
plenty. No air miles or peat bothering either!

"Jim Jackson" wrote in message
...
Peter Fairbrother wrote:

I have been using J Arthur Bower's John Innes seed compost, and I don't
like
it much - the peat is not sieved, and it doesn't seem to drain properly.

I only use about 5 to 10 litres of seed compost per year, so within
reason
cost isn't an issue - can anyone recommend something better, for general
use?


Next years seedlings will thank you! , as do I,

All sorts of stuff in reply. I'm surprized no one has mentioned leaf
mould. I mix leaf mould and riddled turf loam, a little extra
horticultural sand. I used to sterilise small amounts for seeds, but don't
bother now. Yes you get flush of weed seeds - but they can be weeded.
Costs very little other than a bit of organising and I've always got
plenty. No air miles or peat bothering either!

Quite agree but can not produce enough!

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea

Charlie Pridham wrote:

All sorts of stuff in reply. I'm surprized no one has mentioned leaf
mould. I mix leaf mould and riddled turf loam, a little extra
horticultural sand. I used to sterilise small amounts for seeds, but don't
bother now. Yes you get flush of weed seeds - but they can be weeded.
Costs very little other than a bit of organising and I've always got
plenty. No air miles or peat bothering either!

Quite agree but can not produce enough!

My neighbours & family give me their bags of leaves in the autumn to
suuplement my own "crop". I've also been known to collect leaves from the
public footpath before the council gets round to it (not difficult :-).