Hi,

I have been using J Arthur Bower's John Innes seed compost, and I don't like
it much - the peat is not sieved, and it doesn't seem to drain properly.

I only use about 5 to 10 litres of seed compost per year, so within reason
cost isn't an issue - can anyone recommend something better, for general
use?


Next years seedlings will thank you! , as do I,


--
Peter Fairbrother

"Peter Fairbrother" wrote
I have been using J Arthur Bower's John Innes seed compost, and I don't
like
it much - the peat is not sieved, and it doesn't seem to drain properly.

I only use about 5 to 10 litres of seed compost per year, so within reason
cost isn't an issue - can anyone recommend something better, for general
use?


Next years seedlings will thank you! , as do I,

I always use Levingtons Multipurpose, when I have used something else I've
experienced worse germination etc. I sieve the stuff that goes over the
seeds not what is underneath.

--
Regards
Bob H

"Peter Fairbrother" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have been using J Arthur Bower's John Innes seed compost, and I don't
like
it much - the peat is not sieved, and it doesn't seem to drain properly.

I only use about 5 to 10 litres of seed compost per year, so within reason
cost isn't an issue - can anyone recommend something better, for general
use?


Next years seedlings will thank you! , as do I,


--
Peter Fairbrother

I prefer a seed compost with added sand so will either buy Levingtons seed
compost or add sand to a multipurpose, we are (or try to be) peat free and I
must say that bark based peat free compost is rubbish for seed germination!

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea

On 13 May, 19:40, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
Hi,
I have been using J Arthur Bower's John Innes seed compost, and I don't like
it much - the peat is not sieved, and it doesn't seem to drain properly.
I only use about 5 to 10 litres of seed compost per year, so within reason
cost isn't an issue - can anyone recommend something better, for general
use?
Next years seedlings will thank you! , as do I,

Hullo. I use Gem organic seeds and mix in perlite. For courgettes and
squash I mix in my own compost too. It has never failed. It is light
and airy, the perlite helps keep the moisture in. I've had no failures
doing this. I've calculated that I've spent around 12 pounds from
sowing leeks, artichocks, tomatoes, cucumbers, courgettes, cabbage
sticks, brussel sprouts, sweet corns, sweet peas and sunflowers,
melons and a mix of pumpkins/squash and got 100% success. This is a
result!

On 14/5/07 08:17, in article , "Charlie
Pridham" wrote:


"Peter Fairbrother" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have been using J Arthur Bower's John Innes seed compost, and I don't
like
it much - the peat is not sieved, and it doesn't seem to drain properly.

I only use about 5 to 10 litres of seed compost per year, so within reason
cost isn't an issue - can anyone recommend something better, for general
use?


Next years seedlings will thank you! , as do I,


--
Peter Fairbrother

I prefer a seed compost with added sand so will either buy Levingtons seed
compost or add sand to a multipurpose, we are (or try to be) peat free and I
must say that bark based peat free compost is rubbish for seed germination!

Same here, Charlie. But we do use peat based compost for just about
everything, because we find non-peat just doesn't do the job well enough.
We use Levington's F2 for seeds. Recently, we bought a pallet of organic
compost for sale to customers and nobody's interested. I think we've sold
about three bags. OTOH, the ZooPoo has all gone bar three or four bags -
that really has proved extremely popular.


--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)
Devon County Show 17-19 May
http://www.devoncountyshow.co.uk/

On 14 May, 11:18, Sacha wrote:
Same here, Charlie. But we do use peat based compost for just about
everything, because we find non-peat just doesn't do the job well enough.

What, not making any profits you mean. And that at the expense of the
environment. It's a disgrace. And before anyone jumps on the wagon
this is not a personnal call. It is a universal call to understanding
and change. I'm simply saying what is what. It is ludicrous in our
time of climate change, and all our efforts to reverse the damages,
that something like this can be written in a forum which gives advice,
but good advice.

Given the global news that the 60s and 70s brought the destruction of
our environment, countryside, gardens and farming due to chemicals use
for profits and personnal gains, and the depletion of peat bogs,
entensive farming methods and lack of biodiversity, you'd think in a
forum like this we'd be hearing encouraging news!!!

We use Levington's F2 for seeds. Recently, we bought a pallet of organic
compost for sale to customers and nobody's interested. I think we've sold
about three bags.

This is so sad. But come to think of it, it's impossible to sell it if
all the plants are sold in peat! Perhaps giving a good example and
using organic, and proving it is possible to grow just about
everything in non-peat medium would make the sales of the organic
compost a success.

"La Puce" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 14 May, 11:18, Sacha wrote:
Same here, Charlie. But we do use peat based compost for just about
everything, because we find non-peat just doesn't do the job well
enough.

What, not making any profits you mean. And that at the expense of the
environment. It's a disgrace. And before anyone jumps on the wagon
this is not a personnal call. It is a universal call to understanding
and change. I'm simply saying what is what. It is ludicrous in our
time of climate change, and all our efforts to reverse the damages,
that something like this can be written in a forum which gives advice,
but good advice.

I think there is some confusion here, using or not using peat has nothing
whatever to do with global warming, although I suppose it could be argued
that it would depend on how far the compost had traveled to the point of
use, so those people using "organic compost" made from coir are having a
much worse effect than those using an Irish peat based compost!

We use organic none peat compost for everything we produce for sale, but we
do so because what we grow does better in it, not to please the green lobby,
I would not hesitate to change back in order to grow something that did not
like it, and I am a long way from being convinced that peat extraction in
some places is causing much damage at all and in places like Finland they
reckon its being laid down faster than they are extracting.
You simply can not pick on one commodity and say "stop doing this its bad"
but ignoring the hundreds of products we all use every day that are all just
as bad.
And as for profit, it would make no difference to the level of profit being
made, the cost of the compost might, not the type. What we are using is
exactly the same price as the peat based compost we used to use.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea

On 14 May, 14:15, "Charlie Pridham"
wrote:
I think there is some confusion here, using or not using peat has nothing
whatever to do with global warming, although I suppose it could be argued
that it would depend on how far the compost had traveled to the point of
use, so those people using "organic compost" made from coir are having a
much worse effect than those using an Irish peat based compost!

Yes and no. Yes, because when you start moving the peat you cause it
to erode and all the carbon get oxidised back into the atmosphere.
Peat get thick by about one foot every thousand of years. That is not
renewable energy, not sustainable. Peat bogs act as a carbon sink and
holds more carbon than all the world's forests.

As for the no, not all peat free compost are based on coir. Coir was
used by gardeners before peat was and in 1951 it was said to be second
best to peat (Kew uses it for seeds). Some plants prefer it too, such
as fushias. The coconut fibres compost are imported from Sri Lanka, so
yes it has some transport issue - however you cannot compare its air
mile to the release of carbon. In Sri Lanka, wester India and the
Philippines that fibres is left to rot and uses land spaces. It is
used to bulk compost and facilitate drainage. But not all uses it.

We use organic none peat compost for everything we produce for sale, but we
do so because what we grow does better in it, not to please the green lobby,

Well that is just brilliant. But don't for a moment think that the air
the green lobby breathes in is not the same as yours ;o)

I would not hesitate to change back in order to grow something that did not
like it, and I am a long way from being convinced that peat extraction in
some places is causing much damage at all and in places like Finland they
reckon its being laid down faster than they are extracting.

It doesn't lay down faster - it is simply there. But you've got a
point that peat in Finland is being used for energy since it releases
less carbon than fossil fuel. But there's a transport issue there too.

You simply can not pick on one commodity and say "stop doing this its bad"
but ignoring the hundreds of products we all use every day that are all just
as bad.

Off course not, but when it's something that we don't need, like peat,
something that we can go without, why do damage to use it when it is
not really required?! That is the only point I'm trying to make.

And as for profit, it would make no difference to the level of profit being
made, the cost of the compost might, not the type. What we are using is
exactly the same price as the peat based compost we used to use.

Hmmm... perhaps I was getting muddled there in my thoughts. I can see
lots of garden centres using peat because it produces a fast growing
plant, attractive to buyers and the buyers, if naive, would think they
have something good on their hands because the plant looks great and
it's in peat. Once the plant is moved into another medium, it
struggles. So many people have asked me why the plant they got at
Woolworth drooped and floped after planting in ordinary compost. Well,
the plant was saturated and at an early stage - the growing was faster
but that didn't produced a sturdy plant, it produced a quick plant. If
you're an amateur you just wouldn't know. In this way you produce lots
of good looking plants in peat, with very little failure, hence my
thoughts on profits to the loss of our environment.

Chemicals have also influenced garden centres in this way. Producing
perfect plants, with no holes made by a bug. The combination of the
two have brought the fall of lots of insects and birds. We are now
just about to understand how to go back to old fashion gardening
practices, which took longer but the benefits were greater, because
they were sustainable.

On 14/5/07 11:57, in article
, "La Puce"
wrote:

On 14 May, 11:18, Sacha wrote:
Same here, Charlie. But we do use peat based compost for just about
everything, because we find non-peat just doesn't do the job well enough.

What, not making any profits you mean.



If you had ever learned something about business and having to make a
profit, you might be a bit more realistic. As it is, you've made a bloody
fool of yourself yet again and hair-trigger finger, as ever on the keyboard,
you couldn't wait to tear into me. In your fervour, you don't stop to
think about several idiocies you've uttered or that you don't run a
profit-making business, so do not have to concern yourself with your
abilities to do so - or not. Getting your salary from public money must be
one of the easiest ways to keep a roof over your head.

Charlie has given you an excellent rundown on the issue but how very
unsurprising to see that having attempted to tear my husband's business to
shreds and basically, accused him of sheer greed, you now say that "perhaps
I was getting muddled there in my thoughts." What, *again*?

I must admit your jumping on the bandwagon ravings and the utter crap you
posted when responding to Charlie, do make me wonder if you could actually
earn a living in business. Your remarks about peat compost grown plants
struggling when they're planted out are simply incredible. The plants you
describe struggle, if at all, because they're forced under heat as well as
glass. NONE of our plants receive this treatment.
Some plants sold in mass outlets are not grown in peat at all because the
growers use the cheapest possible medium - *that's* where you should be
looking at this 'greed' you yammer on about. What the end user will pay the
grower. Such plants are all too often grown down to a price and not up to a
standard.

They are often grown in rubbish that has low nutrients and yes, many do die
as a result. You should know this but no, you don't, so you rush in with
assumptions and accusations about plants and a nursery you actually know
nothing about because, despite your disclaimer, you saw it as a chance to
tear into me. In effect, you know nothing about the nursery business at all.
Your remark about "if you are an amateur you just wouldn't know" is
breathtaking. You ARE an amateur! Your ignorance is heroic in its scope.
But no doubt, in your immense conceit, you, who faff around on an allotment
and in a pocket handkerchief garden, think you know more than a man who has
been running an extremely successful and really quite well-known nursery,
with a high reputation, for 25 years. Before that, he learned more about
tomato, cucumber and lettuce growing than you've ever heard of, but Puce The
Expert certainly isn't going to miss an opportunity to do me and mine down
if she can help it.

In the meantime, you carry on fannying around with comfrey and bits of old
egg shell on your 'lotty' and the grown ups will feed their families and put
generations of nurserymen's experience to good use with their own hard work
on a 6 acre establishment, which is not funded by multi-million pound
grants. That's what pays your salary and for your trips around UK, not your
ability to run a business and turn a profit on high quality goods - but
public money.

As to your smug little lecture about using chemicals etc., my husband was a
pioneer of biological controls in plant growing. He was using such methods
back in the 1950s and uses them here, today, now and always. We use no
pesticides. As a consequence, both nursery and garden are alive with birds,
our grand daughter has just been thrilled skinny to be shown a blackbird
sitting on a nest in a potted Lavatera in one of the polytunnels and other
birds are in Fuchsias and other shrubs growing in another greenhouse;
sparrows are nesting in the eaves of the house and thrushes are in a
clematis on the front house wall. Hedgehogs inhabit the garden and just
this morning, a dog fox was trotting past the big compost heap.

So enjoy your jollies (which are not paid for out of your pocket) driving
that gas-guzzling, fumes emitting Big Red Bus around the country and perhaps
one day you will learn a bit about growing good plants. Funny how things are
different when it's expedient for *you*, isn't it?



--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)
Devon County Show 17-19 May
http://www.devoncountyshow.co.uk/

Sacha wrote:
: On 14/5/07 08:17, in article ,
: "Charlie Pridham" wrote:
:
::
:: "Peter Fairbrother" wrote in message
:: ...
::: Hi,
:::
::: I have been using J Arthur Bower's John Innes seed compost, and I
::: don't like it much - the peat is not sieved, and it doesn't seem to
::: drain properly.
:::
::: I only use about 5 to 10 litres of seed compost per year, so within
::: reason cost isn't an issue - can anyone recommend something better,
::: for general use?
:::
:::
::: Next years seedlings will thank you! , as do I,
:::
:::
::: --
::: Peter Fairbrother
:::
:: I prefer a seed compost with added sand so will either buy
:: Levingtons seed compost or add sand to a multipurpose, we are (or
:: try to be) peat free and I must say that bark based peat free
:: compost is rubbish for seed germination!
:
: Same here, Charlie. But we do use peat based compost for just about
: everything, because we find non-peat just doesn't do the job well
: enough. We use Levington's F2 for seeds. Recently, we bought a
: pallet of organic compost for sale to customers and nobody's
: interested. I think we've sold about three bags. OTOH, the ZooPoo
: has all gone bar three or four bags - that really has proved
: extremely popular.

I get trailer loads of zoo poo and it produces fantastic crops and it's
light and easy to move about, not like the farmyard manure. I really am
amazed, I roar by it! Returning to the original question, I used to mix half
and half john innes with a peat based but in recent years b and q have done
it for me, so I buy there peat and ji mix. Does a very good job

On 14/5/07 17:53, in article ,
"Robert (Plymouth)" wrote:

Sacha wrote:
snip
the ZooPoo
: has all gone bar three or four bags - that really has proved
: extremely popular.

I get trailer loads of zoo poo and it produces fantastic crops and it's
light and easy to move about, not like the farmyard manure. I really am
amazed, I roar by it! Returning to the original question, I used to mix half
and half john innes with a peat based but in recent years b and q have done
it for me, so I buy there peat and ji mix. Does a very good job


I ordered one pallet load of Zoo Poo to see how it would go. It's marched
out of the place, especially in the last couple of weeks when people are
planting. It's just such a good idea and it works so well for the plants.
Last year, someone was bringing in bags of horse manure from her own stables
- well rotted stuff. That went out so fast we hardly knew it had arrived.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)
Devon County Show 17-19 May
http://www.devoncountyshow.co.uk/

On 14 May, 17:53, "Robert \(Plymouth\)" beachcom...@ultimate-
anonymity.com wrote:

I get trailer loads of zoo poo and it produces fantastic crops and it's
light and easy to move about, not like the farmyard manure. I really am
amazed, I roar by it! Returning to the original question, I used to mix half
and half john innes with a peat based but in recent years b and q have done
it for me, so I buy there peat and ji mix. Does a very good job

I'm sure it does ;o)

Lucky you with the zoo pooh. I get it in pellets form, it's great to
keep cats away. But I find it a bit expensive as it last about 3/4
weeks. And with all the rain we've had, it washed away quickly. Where
do you get your zoo pooh? And which one do you have? I have been using
Silent Roar.

On 14 May, 17:04, Sacha wrote:
On 14/5/07 11:57, in article
If you had ever learned something about business and having to make a
profit, you might be a bit more realistic. As it is, you've made a bloody
fool of yourself yet again and hair-trigger finger, as ever on the keyboard,
you couldn't wait to tear into me. In your fervour, you don't stop to
think about several idiocies you've uttered or that you don't run a
profit-making business, so do not have to concern yourself with your
abilities to do so - or not. Getting your salary from public money must be
one of the easiest ways to keep a roof over your head.

Sleeping with the rich twenty years your senior twice has put a roof
over your head. Don't push it you despicable sad old bag.

La Puce wrote:
: On 14 May, 17:53, "Robert \(Plymouth\)" beachcom...@ultimate-
: anonymity.com wrote:
:
:: I get trailer loads of zoo poo and it produces fantastic crops and
:: it's light and easy to move about, not like the farmyard manure. I
:: really am amazed, I roar by it! Returning to the original question,
:: I used to mix half and half john innes with a peat based but in
:: recent years b and q have done it for me, so I buy there peat and ji
:: mix. Does a very good job
:
: I'm sure it does ;o)
:
: Lucky you with the zoo pooh. I get it in pellets form, it's great to
: keep cats away. But I find it a bit expensive as it last about 3/4
: weeks. And with all the rain we've had, it washed away quickly. Where
: do you get your zoo pooh? And which one do you have? I have been using
: Silent Roar.

I get mine from a private eco firm in our local tip, Chelson Meadow. They
get the manure from Paignton Zoo and compost it. They fill up my large
trailer for aproximately £15 or sell it by the bag which works out a lot
dearer (go down a bit on this link
http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/allotmentsnewsletter )

On May 14, 9:07 pm, "Robert \(Plymouth\)" beachcom...@ultimate-
anonymity.com wrote:
I get mine from a private eco firm in our local tip, Chelson Meadow. They
get the manure from Paignton Zoo and compost it. They fill up my large
trailer for aproximately £15 or sell it by the bag which works out a lot
dearer (go down a bit on this linkhttp://www.plymouth.gov.uk/allotmentsnewsletter)

EcoSci is brilliant. They have 'made' the Eden project in some ways. I
wish my city was as eager to provide the services you seem to be
getting in Plymouth. Again, lucky you ;o) I'll check them to see if
they deliver or perhaps use suppliers closer to me. Thanks a lot.