Maybe there's something that somebody will say that could be of help in
the following situation.

Just a metre beyond the boundary of my garden is pole with an electrical
transformer on it, i.e. a large grey box up near the top. From this
pole wires goes off in three directions. There are the three wires that
bring the current to the box, three wires that then cross my garden to
to provide electricity to my neighbour, and one thick cable that brings
the power to the side of my house. So, a lot of ugly wires all meet in
the vicinity of this ugly pole. Previous owners of this property have
sought to minimise the ugliness by planting leylandii along the boundary
so that the pole is less visible from the house and garden. But every
year, without fail, we get out the ladders and clip off new growth so
that there are no branches within one metre of the pole or within one
metre of any of the wires and the cable.

Onto the scene some weeks ago comes a bull-necked gung-ho chappie from
the tree-cutting company engaged by the power company which supplies
this area. He announces that he is legally entitled to cut away any
growth within two metres of any pole, wire, or cable and also legally
entitled to reduce the height of any nearby tree which he believes if it
were to fall could damage the pole, wires, or cable.

I have pleaded with him that if he cuts away an additional metre from
the height of the trees or if he cuts down a tall nearby pine-tree the
attractiveness of our garden will be very greatly reduced.

He cites the case of some child in Scotland who climbed a tree, touched
wires on a transformer pole, and died. The power company was sued, he
says. Therefore, he is now charged by the power company with the duty
of ensuring there is no growth within two metres of any pole, wire, or
cable. All around this area now I see his trail of destruction. In the
middle of a field, two thick trunks come to a slashed halt about 6 feet
above the ground, freshly sawn on the horizontal, because high above
them a cable passes. A tall thick hedge which was intersected by a
cable at 90 degrees, now has a ghastly great U-shape cut out of it.
It's all so unnecessary. Yes, it will probably mean that the power
company will never be sued again. Yes, it will mean that few branches
or trees will ever fall on a wire or cable again and the company will
not be called out to repair the damage.

I have promised to continue with my annual trimming but suggested that
if the tree-cutter MUST do the job himself then surely he could just
honour the level of the previous cut. No, he says, economically it
makes greater sense for his company to do a "five-yearly cut", i.e. to
trim so much away that they won't have to visit any one site again for
another five years! They've decided to do away with going round the
same sites every year.

Have I got no legal rights in this situation?

They ask "permission" to cut, but the tree-cutter has warned that if I
do not agree then he has the ability to inform the power company and the
power company has the right to turn off the electricity supply!

Eddy.

I THINK that I shall never see
A poem lovely as a tree.
A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
Against the sweet earth's flowing breast;
A tree that looks at God all day, 5
And lifts her leafy arms to pray;
A tree that may in summer wear
A nest of robins in her hair;
Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
Who intimately lives with rain. 10
Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a tree.

- Joyce Kilmer 1886 –1918

Eddy Bentley wrote:
Maybe there's something that somebody will say that could be of help in
the following situation.

Just a metre beyond the boundary of my garden is pole with an electrical
transformer on it, i.e. a large grey box up near the top. From this
pole wires goes off in three directions. There are the three wires that
bring the current to the box, three wires that then cross my garden to
to provide electricity to my neighbour, and one thick cable that brings
the power to the side of my house. So, a lot of ugly wires all meet in
the vicinity of this ugly pole. Previous owners of this property have
sought to minimise the ugliness by planting leylandii along the boundary
so that the pole is less visible from the house and garden. But every
year, without fail, we get out the ladders and clip off new growth so
that there are no branches within one metre of the pole or within one
metre of any of the wires and the cable.

Onto the scene some weeks ago comes a bull-necked gung-ho chappie from
the tree-cutting company engaged by the power company which supplies
this area. He announces that he is legally entitled to cut away any
growth within two metres of any pole, wire, or cable and also legally
entitled to reduce the height of any nearby tree which he believes if it
were to fall could damage the pole, wires, or cable.

I have pleaded with him that if he cuts away an additional metre from
the height of the trees or if he cuts down a tall nearby pine-tree the
attractiveness of our garden will be very greatly reduced.

He cites the case of some child in Scotland who climbed a tree, touched
wires on a transformer pole, and died. The power company was sued, he
says. Therefore, he is now charged by the power company with the duty
of ensuring there is no growth within two metres of any pole, wire, or
cable. All around this area now I see his trail of destruction. In the
middle of a field, two thick trunks come to a slashed halt about 6 feet
above the ground, freshly sawn on the horizontal, because high above
them a cable passes. A tall thick hedge which was intersected by a
cable at 90 degrees, now has a ghastly great U-shape cut out of it.
It's all so unnecessary. Yes, it will probably mean that the power
company will never be sued again. Yes, it will mean that few branches
or trees will ever fall on a wire or cable again and the company will
not be called out to repair the damage.

I have promised to continue with my annual trimming but suggested that
if the tree-cutter MUST do the job himself then surely he could just
honour the level of the previous cut. No, he says, economically it
makes greater sense for his company to do a "five-yearly cut", i.e. to
trim so much away that they won't have to visit any one site again for
another five years! They've decided to do away with going round the
same sites every year.

Have I got no legal rights in this situation?

They ask "permission" to cut, but the tree-cutter has warned that if I
do not agree then he has the ability to inform the power company and the
power company has the right to turn off the electricity supply!

Eddy.

I THINK that I shall never see
A poem lovely as a tree.
A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
Against the sweet earth's flowing breast;
A tree that looks at God all day, 5
And lifts her leafy arms to pray;
A tree that may in summer wear
A nest of robins in her hair;
Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
Who intimately lives with rain. 10
Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a tree.

- Joyce Kilmer 1886 ?1918

They came to my property and said they had to completely remove a number
of trees. My response was what if I refuse? The answer was we will go
to court and get permission anyway. Now it so happened that it suited me
to have the trees removed, if not I would just have refused and let him
go to court. Perhaps you should do the same, then maybe you will get
your way. Anyway if wires are crossing your property is there a way
leave on your deeds to say they can?
Perhaps not germane, but at the moment I am claiming compensation
because high voltage wires cross my property. I will definitely get some
compensation, however how much remains to be seen.

"Eddy Bentley" wrote in message
...
Maybe there's something that somebody will say that could be of help in
the following situation.

Just a metre beyond the boundary of my garden is pole with an electrical
transformer on it, i.e. a large grey box up near the top.

I heard there are EEC grants available for burying electric cables. Someone
told me that village councils have managed to get grants to have cables
burried. Apparently there are no similar grants for phone lines so if the
poles are shared then it's too expensive....at least that's what I've heard.

On Sun, 27 May 2007 Eddy Bentley wrote:

Maybe there's something that somebody will say that could be of help in
the following situation.

Just a metre beyond the boundary of my garden is pole with an electrical
transformer on it, i.e. a large grey box up near the top. From this
pole wires goes off in three directions. There are the three wires that
bring the current to the box, three wires that then cross my garden to
to provide electricity to my neighbour, and one thick cable that brings
the power to the side of my house. So, a lot of ugly wires all meet in
the vicinity of this ugly pole. Previous owners of this property have
sought to minimise the ugliness by planting leylandii along the boundary
so that the pole is less visible from the house and garden. But every
year, without fail, we get out the ladders and clip off new growth so
that there are no branches within one metre of the pole or within one
metre of any of the wires and the cable.

No, I don't think I can. I have exactly the same situation actually on
my property in Normandy only the wires concerned medium-high tension and
cross my field. I don't get any rent from EDF and I have to make sure
that nothing grows too close to the wires. If it does they have the
right to come and cut it back - and they do!

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On Sun, 27 May 2007 15:30:50 GMT, Eddy Bentley
wrote:

Maybe there's something that somebody will say that could be of help in
the following situation.

Just a metre beyond the boundary of my garden is pole with an electrical
transformer on it, i.e. a large grey box up near the top. From this
pole wires goes off in three directions. There are the three wires that
bring the current to the box,

For information, those three wires carry 11,000 volts, 3-phase; not to
be trifled with. The other wires probably carry the 230/240 volts to
the various properties.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

On Sun, 27 May 2007 18:27:14 +0100, Broadback wrote:

Anyway if wires are crossing your property is there a way leave on your
deeds to say they can?

From the OPs orginal post the only ones that require a way leave are the
ones feeding the neighbour. The power in/out will as well provided the
cross the OPs property but only the neighbours feed is mentioned.

As for the legal position I wouldn't be surprised if the broad outline is
that, the power companies have a legal right to trim anything growing
near/under their lines. Have a dig about on the OfGeM site?

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sun, 27 May 2007 15:30:50 GMT, Eddy Bentley wrote:


Have I got no legal rights in this situation?

Hi Eddy I was a power linesman pre-privatisation.The power companys HAVE to
cut to a safe distance from the wires.Not sure on the distance(a long time
ago) but it used to be about 4 to 5 foot.More for the transformer.
As for clearing for a period of 4/5 or whatever years I doubt they have any
powers at all.I NEVER cut trees without permision in 20 years.This was
because the power companys had next to no powers at all.

They ask "permission" to cut, but the tree-cutter has warned that if I
do not agree then he has the ability to inform the power company and the
power company has the right to turn off the electricity supply!
Total rubbish.
I doubt anything has changed since my days with them.All you do is agree to
nothing,become the awkward customer,they will then send a white collar type
who will give a you truer picture of things.
This is not a pleasant way to go about things but unfortunately experience
has shown me this is the only way to deal with them.
I used to be the bloke who wanted to cut every tree in site.True.


--
Regards From
Wane Smooth

Help feed the Hungry,goto
http://www.thehungersite.com
It's Free!

Not sure on the distance(a long time
ago) but it used to be about 4 to 5 foot.More for the transformer.
This is for the 11,000 the low voltage is a lot less.
HTH.
--
Regards From
Wane Smooth

Help feed the Hungry,goto
http://www.thehungersite.com
It's Free!

Eddy Bentley wrote:

Maybe there's something that somebody will say that could be of help in
the following situation.

snip

Have I got no legal rights in this situation?

I suppose this may vary from area to area, company to company, but I'm
in much the same situation as you in South West Wales. A similar
tree-murdering company came round two years ago and wanted to cut back
an oak growing beside-and-under an 11,000 volt line, for which a 3 metre
clearance is maintained. That would have meant felling the tree, pretty
much. The tree is right on the property border, but just on my
neighbour's side, so I referred them there. My neighbour refused them
permission and, after some attempt at persuasion, the contractor said:
"we'll just have to put it down as a non-comply" and left without
cutting.

That phrase suggested to me that neither the power company nor the
contractor have an absolute right to do as they wish and would have to
get a court order if they were determined to have a tree cut back
against its owner's wish, and that may be too much trouble for them.
More likely, I suspect, they would leave it until said tree fell over
onto the line, or caused a serious short to earth, and then the
non-complying owner would be sued for all the costs of repair.

HUGE CAVEAT: this is just my surmise based on this experience, I'm not a
lawyer. If you really want to keep your hedge as is, you might want to
consult a solicitor who's knowledgeable in this area.

They ask "permission" to cut, but the tree-cutter has warned that if I
do not agree then he has the ability to inform the power company and the
power company has the right to turn off the electricity supply!

Purely an attempt at intimidation, I suspect.

Brian Mitchell

Broadback wrote:

. . . Anyway if wires are crossing your property is there a way
leave on your deeds to say they can?
Perhaps not germane, but at the moment I am claiming compensation
because high voltage wires cross my property. I will definitely get some
compensation, however how much remains to be seen.

Could you say a little more about this? Compensation for what? I have
11,000 volt wires going over my property and the distribution pole with
transformer is actually on my property.

Brian Mitchell

brian mitchell writes
Broadback wrote:

. . . Anyway if wires are crossing your property is there a way
leave on your deeds to say they can?
Perhaps not germane, but at the moment I am claiming compensation
because high voltage wires cross my property. I will definitely get some
compensation, however how much remains to be seen.

Could you say a little more about this? Compensation for what? I have
11,000 volt wires going over my property and the distribution pole with
transformer is actually on my property.

Have a look at:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/files/file34072.pdf
It's the DTI explanation of the regulations around control of vegetation
near power lines.
Interesting points:
New laws mean power companies must keep enough distance to ensure supply
- previously they had merely to ensure public safety.
In theory the landowner is responsible - and can reclaim costs from the
electricity company
The limits for safety vary from 0.8m for low voltage lines near to
non-climbable trees (which sounds like your situation) to 5.3m for 400kv
lines near to climbable trees.
All work should be carried out to good arboriculture practice and the
relevant British Standard
Electricity companies do have statutory powers, but they have to serve
notice of the works required, and you have 21 days to serve a
counter-notice, whereupon Sec of State for Trade and Industry makes a
decision.

So in answer to your original tree cutting question, it would seem that
you are perfectly within your rights to tell the tree butcher to get
lost, and wait for the company to give you written notice of what they
require.
--
Kay

On Sun, 27 May 2007 22:44:10 +0100, brian mitchell wrote:

Could you say a little more about this? Compensation for what? I have
11,000 volt wires going over my property and the distribution pole with
transformer is actually on my property.

The local distribution company should be paying you for the pole on your
property *provided* it is feeding other cumstomers not just you. They may
have bought out the rent in the past though and in any case it's not much.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

K wrote:
Have a look at:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/files/file34072.pdf

This is particularly helpful, Kay. Thanks. The document above, and
those it refers to, state that companies only have statutory powers
where a tree
1. "obstructs or interferes" with a line
and/or
2. is seen to "to constitute an unacceptable source of danger (whether
to children or to other persons)".

As there is a clear meter's clearance between wires and trees in my
case, then No. 1 does not apply. No. 2 certainly does not apply as
neither children nor adults pass within three meters of the trees and
four meters of the pole.

I'm extremely grateful to you all for the moral support of your
messages.

The DTI document makes clear that there is a process to be followed,
i.e. I had a right to object within 21 days of the letter I received
back in February. The company then would have had the right to refer
the matter to the relevant Secretary of State. Well, the letter I
received failed to inform me of my rights and now, three months on, the
power company has not referred the matter to the Secretary of State.
So, indeed in this case I may refuse to give any permission when the
tree-cutter next visits and I could invite him to send me a formal
notification (including an explanation of my rights!) which I will then
object to within 21 days. This seems like the way to go.

Eddy.

Hello Wane,

Thanks very much indeed for your help in the uk.rec.gardening newsgroup.
It's really helpful getting a message from someone who has actually
been on the other side.

The reply from "K" is also very helpful in directing me to:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/files/file34072.pdf

This document, and those it refers to, states that companies only have
statutory powers where a tree 1. "obstructs or interferes" with a line
and/or 2. is seen to "to constitute an unacceptable source of danger
(whether to children or to other persons)".

It seems that if I failed under either 1 or 2 above, which I thankfully
don't, then power companies have a right to make clearance of:

5.3m between climbable trees and 400kV lines

and

.8m between non-climbable trees and lower voltage lines.

Could I send you some photos and ask you to suggest the likely power of
the lines in my case? Can you give me a working email address? (If you
like, send me a private message with your email address in it. Remove
the anti-spam element from my address.)

One thing I didn't mention in my initial posting on the newsgroup is
that the tree-cutter also pointed to the stay which helps support the
pole. While the pole is on the farmer's land on the other side of the
hedge, the stay is situated on my land. Half way down the stay is a
ceramic "knuckle". This is below the top of the hedge. You can make it
out in the photo. I seem to the remember tree-cutter claimed he has a
right to create clearance of about 1 m all around this knuckle. This of
course would produce an awful U in the hedge.

I'd be grateful for any or all your thoughts on this matter.

As you say "this is not a pleasant way to go", but the option of having
such an important part of this garden hacked away is one that sickens
me. When you're lovingly tending the growth of plants and shrubs
throughout your garden and there's the possibility of a culling going on
in another part it's really frustrating.

Eddy.

On Tue, 29 May 2007 09:22:05 GMT, Eddy Bentley wrote:

5.3m between climbable trees and 400kV lines

and

8m between non-climbable trees and lower voltage lines.

Seems arse about face, more distance for lower voltages and non-climbable.
Wanders off to document mentioned... ahhh, missing decimal 0.8m not 8m.
B-)

Seems your friendly tree cutter is being rather over zealous. From that
documnet the power companies do have a statutory right to cut trees but
only after they have served a notice of the works required and the
landowner hasn't responded or done the work within 21 days. All the scare
stuff about being cut off etc is incorrect. Make a formal, written,
complaint to the power distribution company concerned. This tree cutter
needs retraining.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail