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#1
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
So far, all my spent coffee grinds, have ended up in my
compostor ( I believe there was a thread on ukrg last year). After reading the following article, I'll separate the coffee and use it as a spray next year, on the allotment. It also mentions tea leaves as a good source http://preview.tinyurl.com/34gjnw2 |
#2
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Quote:
Anyway, this is very interesting. Who would have thought that slugs would hate coffee?
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#3
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
On 22/11/2010 23:54, Bertie Doe wrote:
So far, all my spent coffee grinds, have ended up in my compostor ( I believe there was a thread on ukrg last year). After reading the following article, I'll separate the coffee and use it as a spray next year, on the allotment. It also mentions tea leaves as a good source http://preview.tinyurl.com/34gjnw2 It is more effective just to spread the coffee grounds around sensitive plants like hostas and delphiniums. Turning it into a spray isn't worth the effort. Most things of plant origin that we consume as stimulants and interesting tastes were intended for chemical warfare against plant parasites or fungi. It is sheer good luck that they do us no harm. Regards, Martin Brown |
#4
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
Thanks hollierose and Martin. What I should have
mentioned in the above post, is the fact that most coffee shops are happy to donate their spent espresso pucks and filter grounds. In fact Starbucks HQ in the States, advertise the fact. I suggest you phone your local coffee shop first and also bring along a couple of s/mkt carrier bags. As to doseage - I'm unsure. I'll go back to alt.coffee-moderated later (where I first saw the above link) and get their opinion. I will experiment in 2011 and post back. It would be great if the cabbage white butterfly was allergic?? - fat chance!!! Bertie |
#5
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote: It is more effective just to spread the coffee grounds around sensitive plants like hostas and delphiniums. Turning it into a spray isn't worth the effort. Most things of plant origin that we consume as stimulants and interesting tastes were intended for chemical warfare against plant parasites or fungi. It is sheer good luck that they do us no harm. Not luck! We are evolved from a long history of plant eaters, and have a very high resistance to many such chemicals - caffeine being one. And we don't usually consume the plants which contain ones to which we have no resistance, however interesting they are. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#6
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
On 22/11/2010 23:54, Bertie Doe wrote:
So far, all my spent coffee grinds, have ended up in my compostor ( I believe there was a thread on ukrg last year). After reading the following article, I'll separate the coffee and use it as a spray next year, on the allotment. It also mentions tea leaves as a good source http://preview.tinyurl.com/34gjnw2 Has this article just been published in ScienceNews? It refers to a 27 June edition of Nature, but Hollingsworth and Campbell (two authors mentioned) published the paper "Pest Control: Caffeine as a repellent for slugs and snails" in the 27 June 2002 edition of Nature (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../417915a.html). Assuming that it works well, probably the main reason why caffeine is not used commercially against slugs and snails is that it is not patentable. -- Jeff |
#7
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
In article , hollierose.76187b6
@gardenbanter.co.uk says... a friend of mine said that salt can get rid of slugs Many years ago (50+!) I had an aunt who every evening used to go out with a pot pf salt and a tea spoon and sprinke a little on any slug she found. Not a pleasant sight, as the slugs sort of bubbled up as they died, but were gone by the morning. |
#8
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message ... On 22/11/2010 23:54, Bertie Doe wrote: So far, all my spent coffee grinds, have ended up in my compostor ( I believe there was a thread on ukrg last year). After reading the following article, I'll separate the coffee and use it as a spray next year, on the allotment. It also mentions tea leaves as a good source http://preview.tinyurl.com/34gjnw2 Has this article just been published in ScienceNews? It refers to a 27 June edition of Nature, but Hollingsworth and Campbell (two authors mentioned) published the paper "Pest Control: Caffeine as a repellent for slugs and snails" in the 27 June 2002 edition of Nature (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../417915a.html). Looks like it may be an old article. Assuming that it works well, probably the main reason why caffeine is not used commercially against slugs and snails is that it is not patentable. As we know, the compounds in coffee are numerous. If 'Big Chemistry" could isolate the one that kills slugs ....... there would be another ££££ big killing |
#9
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
wrote in message ... In article , Martin Brown wrote: It is more effective just to spread the coffee grounds around sensitive plants like hostas and delphiniums. Turning it into a spray isn't worth the effort. Most things of plant origin that we consume as stimulants and interesting tastes were intended for chemical warfare against plant parasites or fungi. It is sheer good luck that they do us no harm. Not luck! We are evolved from a long history of plant eaters, and have a very high resistance to many such chemicals - caffeine being one. And we don't usually consume the plants which contain ones to which we have no resistance, however interesting they are. I may need your help with the maths here, as it may be less hassle to spray the salad area on the allotment with a gallon of fresh coffee - rather than bothering with saving up old spent grounds. The following are US capacity measurements: http://preview.tinyurl.com/34gjnw2 "A 4-ounce solution of 2 percent caffeine applied to the soil of 4-inch greenhouse pots devastated garden slugs" I assume they mean 4 oz of coffee contains 2% of pure caffeine. We have to speculate as to the strength and type of coffee and amount used. There's no real need to use 'proper' coffee, as instant coffee lies neatly between arabica and robusta, according to:- http://coffeechemistry.com/index.php...in-coffee.html So to summarise, there are 32 cups (4 oz) in a US gallon. I'm estimating 0.25 oz of instant per cup, so an 8 oz jar would produce a gallon of Nescafe bliss. Make a small adjustment for my 5 litre sprayer etc. If it's effective and a gallon lasts all Summer, then it could prove to be an economic method of pest control. |
#10
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
"Bertie Doe" wrote ... So far, all my spent coffee grinds, have ended up in my compostor ( I believe there was a thread on ukrg last year). After reading the following article, I'll separate the coffee and use it as a spray next year, on the allotment. It also mentions tea leaves as a good source http://preview.tinyurl.com/34gjnw2 The only problem I see is that DEFRA have not given it a licence to be used as a pesticide, it has not been tested as such, and we therefor do not know what damage it would cause to the environment as a whole. It might also kill birds and others that eat the contaminated slugs for example, it might do irreparable damage to the soil flora/fauna. -- Regards Bob Hobden W.of London. UK |
#11
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
In article ,
Bob Hobden wrote: "Bertie Doe" wrote ... So far, all my spent coffee grinds, have ended up in my compostor ( I believe there was a thread on ukrg last year). After reading the following article, I'll separate the coffee and use it as a spray next year, on the allotment. It also mentions tea leaves as a good source http://preview.tinyurl.com/34gjnw2 The only problem I see is that DEFRA have not given it a licence to be used as a pesticide, it has not been tested as such, and we therefor do not know what damage it would cause to the environment as a whole. It might also kill birds and others that eat the contaminated slugs for example, it might do irreparable damage to the soil flora/fauna. Yeah. And it might super-stimulate the slugs, so they go racing round the garden, or even sprout wings and fly. Given the massive experience we have of composting them in open heaps, the effect on birds is almost certainly nil to negligible, and we can be certain that it won't cause irreparable damage to the soil flora and fauna. |
#12
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
On 23/11/2010 23:56, Bertie Doe wrote:
wrote in message ... In article , Martin Brown wrote: It is more effective just to spread the coffee grounds around sensitive plants like hostas and delphiniums. Turning it into a spray isn't worth the effort. Most things of plant origin that we consume as stimulants and interesting tastes were intended for chemical warfare against plant parasites or fungi. It is sheer good luck that they do us no harm. Not luck! We are evolved from a long history of plant eaters, and have a very high resistance to many such chemicals - caffeine being one. And we don't usually consume the plants which contain ones to which we have no resistance, however interesting they are. I am sure you know what I mean. You have to admire the guy who ate the first chilli or maybe did it the second time knowing what to expect!. Some of the things we can eat are surprising given how bad they are for other mammals - chocolate is lethal to dogs for instance and soya beans and some other legumes wreck most rodents reproduction cycle. I may need your help with the maths here, as it may be less hassle to spray the salad area on the allotment with a gallon of fresh coffee - rather than bothering with saving up old spent grounds. The following are US capacity measurements: http://preview.tinyurl.com/34gjnw2 "A 4-ounce solution of 2 percent caffeine applied to the soil of 4-inch greenhouse pots devastated garden slugs" I assume they mean 4 oz of coffee contains 2% of pure caffeine. We have to speculate as to the strength and type of coffee and amount used. I wouldn't assume that at all. 4 oz of coffee will likely contain 0.03-0.06g of caffeine. Taking 4oz as roughly ~100g = 0.05% caffeine content. A 2% caffeine solution would be very very strong coffee the sort that you could stand the spoon up in. Espresso coffee can contain up to 2g/Litre caffeine which is 0.2%! There's no real need to use 'proper' coffee, as instant coffee lies neatly between arabica and robusta, according to:- http://coffeechemistry.com/index.php...in-coffee.html So to summarise, there are 32 cups (4 oz) in a US gallon. I'm estimating 0.25 oz of instant per cup, so an 8 oz jar would produce a gallon of Nescafe bliss. Make a small adjustment for my 5 litre sprayer etc. If it's effective and a gallon lasts all Summer, then it could prove to be an economic method of pest control. I doubt it will last all summer (though it might in a greenhouse) as caffeine is pretty water soluble and will migrate into the ground. Use the coffee grounds directly on the soil and you might have a useful effect. I have tried it and cannot decide if it works or not. Slug pellets certainly do have the right effect and very quickly. Regards, Martin Brown |
#13
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
On 24/11/2010 09:53, Janet wrote:
In , says... In , Bob wrote: The only problem I see is that DEFRA have not given it a licence to be used as a pesticide, it has not been tested as such, and we therefor do not know what damage it would cause to the environment as a whole. It might also kill birds and others that eat the contaminated slugs for example, it might do irreparable damage to the soil flora/fauna. I doubt that very much. The chemical caffeine is not that nasty. Curiously the LD50 for caffeine is about the same as pure glyphosate. Yeah. And it might super-stimulate the slugs, so they go racing round the garden, or even sprout wings and fly. Given the massive experience we have of composting them in open heaps, the effect on birds is almost certainly nil to negligible, and we can be certain that it won't cause irreparable damage to the soil flora and fauna. If broken up tea/coffee leaves contained an effective pesticide/deterrent/herbicide I'd expect tea/coffee plantations to be pretty pest-proof/ weed proof, but they aren't. Growers contend with multiple weeds/pests. That doesn't follow at all. There are pests specific to a given host and static monoculture like tea or coffee plantations always create problems with the wrong pests finding a huge concentration of host plants. Nicotine in tobacco plants is another extremely potent toxic insecticide (extracts were even used as such in the past) but tobacco plants still need protection from the various pest insects that have co-evolved to tolerate or avoid the poison. http://www.ikisan.com/links/ap_tobac...nagement.shtml Regards, Martin Brown |
#14
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
On 24/11/2010 10:57, Janet wrote:
In , says... I doubt it will last all summer (though it might in a greenhouse) as caffeine is pretty water soluble and will migrate into the ground. Use the coffee grounds directly on the soil and you might have a useful effect. I have tried it and cannot decide if it works or not. IME certain textures, such as sand, fine grit, wood ashes, and rough leaves like comfrey and dried bracken, do have some protective deterrent/ repellent effect as slugs don't like crossing them; maybe coffee grounds work that way. Wood ashes are pretty alkaline. Charcoal and the last bits of coke coal seem to work for a while as slug deterrents. They don't like the rough surface. But I think the coffee grounds effect is mainly chemical. Regards, Martin Brown |
#15
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Caffeine versus slugs & snails
On Nov 24, 12:30*pm, Martin Brown
wrote: On 24/11/2010 10:57, Janet wrote: In , says... I doubt it will last all summer (though it might in a greenhouse) as caffeine is pretty water soluble and will migrate into the ground. Use the coffee grounds directly on the soil and you might have a useful effect. I have tried it and cannot decide if it works or not. * *IME certain textures, such as sand, fine grit, wood ashes, and rough leaves like comfrey and dried bracken, do have *some protective deterrent/ repellent effect as slugs don't like crossing them; maybe coffee grounds work that way. Wood ashes are pretty alkaline. Charcoal and the last bits of coke coal seem to work for a while as slug deterrents. They don't like the rough surface. But I think the coffee grounds effect is mainly chemical. Regards, Martin Brown Now if coffee would work on Vine weevil |
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