I have a very old Philadelphus and I know I was meant to cut it back after flowering in June but did not get round to it. It is full of old stems/branches and needs a good reviving, it also has ivy growing up through it. If I hack it back now am I doing more harm than good? Should I wait until next summer? It looks like it has needed this for several years, and hasn't flowered much for the last few years. Although I am posting from France the weather here is pretty much the same as southern England. Anyone got any ideas?

Philadelphus flowers on last year's wood. So best management is regularly shorten it immediately after flowering, but making sure you retain some of the emerging new shoots lower down, so that those continue to extend during the rest of the summer, and form long flowering shoots for the following year. You are unlikely to kill it by pruning it now. One option for pruning now is to thin it out rather than shorten it. Or maybe carefully retain those of last summer's shoots that are lower down. You can shorten it now, but you'll lose next summer's flowers.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:58:23 +0000, echinosum
wrote:


MacCavity;910343 Wrote:
I have a very old Philadelphus and I know I was meant to cut it back
after flowering in June but did not get round to it. It is full of old
stems/branches and needs a good reviving, it also has ivy growing up
through it. If I hack it back now am I doing more harm than good? Should
I wait until next summer? It looks like it has needed this for several
years, and hasn't flowered much for the last few years. Although I am
posting from France the weather here is pretty much the same as southern
England. Anyone got any ideas?
Philadelphus flowers on last year's wood. So best management is
regularly shorten it immediately after flowering, but making sure you
retain some of the emerging new shoots lower down, so that those
continue to extend during the rest of the summer, and form long
flowering shoots for the following year. You are unlikely to kill it by
pruning it now. One option for pruning now is to thin it out rather than
shorten it. Or maybe carefully retain those of last summer's shoots that
are lower down. You can shorten it now, but you'll lose next summer's
flowers.

It wants a feed, too, to encourage it to come back into flowering
condition. I'd say prick in some growmore, and top-dress with some
good rotted muck or compost.

--
Mike.

"MacCavity" wrote in message
...

I have a very old Philadelphus and I know I was meant to cut it back
after flowering in June but did not get round to it. It is full of old
stems/branches and needs a good reviving, it also has ivy growing up
through it. If I hack it back now am I doing more harm than good? Should
I wait until next summer? It looks like it has needed this for several
years, and hasn't flowered much for the last few years. Although I am
posting from France the weather here is pretty much the same as southern
England. Anyone got any ideas?

Remember it only flowers on old wood so if you cut it back severely it will
not flower for two years.
I had a huge philadelphus, 50 yo at least and my new neighbour cut it down
to ground level as it was on the boundary and he wanted to put up a fence.
We fell out about that in a major way as it was my tree.

It's shooting from the base now and flowered this year.
Don't know if this helps.

Tina

In article , MacCavity
writes
If I hack it back now am I doing more harm than good?


I lop everything that's flowered off after flowering time but find that
it doesn't grow too much until April and then flowers on growth it puts
on just before it flowers. So I personally would hack it about now. Mind
you if you need to take off a lot then maybe do a third now and then a
third after flowering or half so you don't shock the poor thing too
much. i keep Belle Etoile commonly a zonking great thing, to a nice tidy
five feet and fairly compact next to the front door.
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , echinosum
writes
Philadelphus flowers on last year's wood.


Are you sure? Mine seems to flower on what it grows between autumn and
the late spring.
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

All the plants I have come across behave really rather like summer raspberries (except that the location where the shoots comes from is above ground with Ph but below ground wiht the raspberries). And others above have said the same.

But autumn raspberries also exist. For all I know, there exists autumn Ph, but it is hte first I've heard of it.

"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message
...
In article , MacCavity
writes
If I hack it back now am I doing more harm than good?


I lop everything that's flowered off after flowering time but find that it
doesn't grow too much until April and then flowers on growth it puts on
just before it flowers. So I personally would hack it about now. Mind you
if you need to take off a lot then maybe do a third now and then a third
after flowering or half so you don't shock the poor thing too much. i keep
Belle Etoile commonly a zonking great thing, to a nice tidy five feet and
fairly compact next to the front door.
--
My experience with my philadelpus was that it flowered on old wood. After
it was cut off at ground level by my neighbour it took a while for it to
make shoots anyway and didn't flower on them until the following year.
It was a really big one and I was surprised it recovered at all.

Tina

In article , Christina Websell
writes
My experience with my philadelpus was that it flowered on old wood. After
it was cut off at ground level by my neighbour it took a while for it to
make shoots anyway and didn't flower on them until the following year.
It was a really big one and I was surprised it recovered at all.


Oh well mine I take off all the shoots that have flowered straight after
flowering and then prune back any overlarge ones and i get lots of
flowers every year./ BUT like i said before, i have it by the front door
and keep it to about 4 foot high and no more than 2 or three foot wide.
Maybe I am not taking off all the flowering wood? It seems to grow a lot
between now and flowering it's "Virginal" which can get quite large if
left.

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message
...
In article , Christina Websell
writes
My experience with my philadelpus was that it flowered on old wood.
After
it was cut off at ground level by my neighbour it took a while for it to
make shoots anyway and didn't flower on them until the following year.
It was a really big one and I was surprised it recovered at all.


Oh well mine I take off all the shoots that have flowered straight after
flowering and then prune back any overlarge ones and i get lots of flowers
every year./ BUT like i said before, i have it by the front door and keep
it to about 4 foot high and no more than 2 or three foot wide.
Maybe I am not taking off all the flowering wood? It seems to grow a lot
between now and flowering it's "Virginal" which can get quite large if
left.


I think mine was Virginal too.

Can I ask you about Dalmatians?
When I was a child my friend's mother had a nice bitch which she decided to
have one litter from.
She used a dog called (IIRC) Ch Kurnool Echelon, a liver dog. Have you
heard of him?
I'm a whippet person myself, I showed and bred and am researching a 16
generation pedigree from my first beloved one.
I've got quite lot completed.

Tina

On Jan 18, 3:58*pm, echinosum
wrote:
You can shorten it now, but you'll lose next summer's
flowers.

but it will go like billy-o in 2012, especially if you take the other
advice and feed it!

That's what we are all doing Janet. The point is that it flowers on shoots formed before the plant becomes dormant for the winter. Some of these shoots form before flowering, but some form after flowering and before winter. But they all do a lot of extending after flowering and before winter. Shoots forming the following spring don't flower. But last years shoots, like summer raspberries, may still extend.

In article , Christina Websell
writes
I think mine was Virginal too.

Can I ask you about Dalmatians?
When I was a child my friend's mother had a nice bitch which she decided to
have one litter from.
She used a dog called (IIRC) Ch Kurnool Echelon, a liver dog. Have you
heard of him?
I'm a whippet person myself, I showed and bred and am researching a 16
generation pedigree from my first beloved one.
I've got quite lot completed.

Tina


That's Mrs Macdonald-Smith isn't it?
Strangely enough a lot of the older breeders used to have Dalmatians and
whippets, Olbero, and tantivvey and Illyricum kennels come to mind!

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Amersham Gardening Association
http://www.amersham-gardening.net

In article , echinosum
writes
But they all do a lot of extending after flowering and

before winter. Shoots forming the following spring don't flower. But

last years shoots, like summer raspberries, may still extend.


But what I'm saying is that mine does seem to flower on stems that grew
since the last flowering, (when i pruned them)
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

That is consistent with what I said. What I said is that it does not flower on shoots that form (as opposed to extend) AFTER THE WINTER.