After reading the article about impatiens disease in the Telegraph
article, I wrote again to T&M, and noted that a T&M spokesman had said
it could be the end of us growing impatiens and asked if they'd
reconsider refunding my money.
I had a prompt reply saying that they will do so but.........
"... please be aware that this is no fault with the product and this
disease was out of our control and yours as the grower."
It's just the principle of the situation, not the money. (£6.99)


Pam in Bristol

Pam Moore wrote:
I had a prompt reply saying that they will do so but.........
"... please be aware that this is no fault with the product and this
disease was out of our control and yours as the grower."
It's just the principle of the situation, not the money. (?6.99)

I'm afraid I'm with them on this, and I think that this is a sign of true
'good customer service' (tbh, I've always found T+M very good at refunding
in a voucher, then I forget to spend the voucher before it expires!).

It wasn't a fault with the product, it wasn't necessarily a fault of yours,
it was just "one of those things that happen". If you'd bought broad bean
plants and they got covered in black fly, would you expect them to cover
that? I don't see why this is any different.

On 16/08/2011 11:43, wrote:
Pam wrote:
I had a prompt reply saying that they will do so but.........
"... please be aware that this is no fault with the product and this
disease was out of our control and yours as the grower."
It's just the principle of the situation, not the money. (?6.99)

I'm afraid I'm with them on this, and I think that this is a sign of true
'good customer service' (tbh, I've always found T+M very good at refunding
in a voucher, then I forget to spend the voucher before it expires!).

It wasn't a fault with the product, it wasn't necessarily a fault of yours,
it was just "one of those things that happen". If you'd bought broad bean
plants and they got covered in black fly, would you expect them to cover
that? I don't see why this is any different.
I wondered why all mine had died, I blamed the slugs!

--
Residing on low ground in North Staffordshire

On 16 Aug 2011 10:43:45 GMT, wrote:

Pam Moore wrote:
I had a prompt reply saying that they will do so but.........
"... please be aware that this is no fault with the product and this
disease was out of our control and yours as the grower."
It's just the principle of the situation, not the money. (?6.99)

I'm afraid I'm with them on this, and I think that this is a sign of true
'good customer service' (tbh, I've always found T+M very good at refunding
in a voucher, then I forget to spend the voucher before it expires!).

It wasn't a fault with the product, it wasn't necessarily a fault of yours,
it was just "one of those things that happen". If you'd bought broad bean
plants and they got covered in black fly, would you expect them to cover
that? I don't see why this is any different.

It wasn't just my plants which suffered. I shared them with 4
friends, two locally one in Wiltshire and one in Gloucestershire. I
feel the disease came with the plants. We've none of us grown
impatiens for several years.
This is a specific disease, not like aphids on broad beans.

Pam in Bristol

Y'know, Impatiens Downy Mildew is a nationwide problem and cannot be
blamed upon a single supplier. It affects all bedding Impatiens (I.
walleriana hybrids and varieties) and is a strongly residual disease
that can and will appear spontaneously amongst any planting. Cool,
humid nights and rainy weather enable it to spread quickly on the wind
and an infected plant or plants some distance away can be the source
of a infection in any one garden, It is unreasonable and unfair to
imply that T&M (or any other supplier for that matter) sold infected
plants, because it is equally possible those plants became infected
after planting. I'm not a huge admirer of T&M, but I do think they
are being exceptionally and even unnecessarily fair in offering a
refund. Take the money and be grateful, but be aware that such offers
may not be forthcoming in future.

On 17/08/2011 20:02, Dave Poole wrote:
Y'know, Impatiens Downy Mildew is a nationwide problem and cannot be
blamed upon a single supplier. It affects all bedding Impatiens (I.
walleriana hybrids and varieties) and is a strongly residual disease
that can and will appear spontaneously amongst any planting. Cool,
humid nights and rainy weather enable it to spread quickly on the wind
and an infected plant or plants some distance away can be the source
of a infection in any one garden, It is unreasonable and unfair to
imply that T&M (or any other supplier for that matter) sold infected
plants, because it is equally possible those plants became infected
after planting. I'm not a huge admirer of T&M, but I do think they
are being exceptionally and even unnecessarily fair in offering a
refund. Take the money and be grateful, but be aware that such offers
may not be forthcoming in future.

In Pam's case, it is very unlikely the plants became infected after
planting as neither she, nor the people she gave the plants to, had
grown impatiens for years, and the causative organism is specific for
impatiens (and even more so selected impatiens species/hybrids).

It is not as though this is a new disease. It was first seen in 2003,
and preventative measures were proposed in 2007 (e.g. see
http://www.fera.defra.gov.uk/plants/...wnyMildew.pdf).

In April/May it was recognised as a particular problem and once again
proposals made for control
(http://www.fera.defra.gov.uk/plants/...ay11Issue.pdf).


Right at the start of the box on page 3 of that article it states
"Between mid- May and mid-June three stocks of Impatiens infected with
this devastating disease
were intercepted by Plant Health and Seed Inspectors." Well, if visible
to the inspectors, could the suppliers not see it too?

The second paragraph starts "Checking any bought-in plants for signs of
disease is a good first line of defence, however, if detected the key to
its management is a combination of good hygiene, and where possible,
controlling the growing condition. Any infected plants and associated
debris should be removed and destroyed and contaminated benches, pots
etc. cleaned."

It may be the case that the disease became resistant to the agents
available to the suppliers (the RHS suggest this could be the reason for
the devastating increase in incidence), but this does not excuse the
suppliers for sending out diseased plants.

As resistance to antifungals is pretty much a given after several years'
use, I am afraid that, at best, "commercial complacency" seems to apply
here.

--

Jeff

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 10:19:54 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

pruned- you can read the text in earlier posts

Sorry this is long but trying to explain my reasoning:

I've been researching the impatiens problem. My circumstances are a
bit different from Pam's as I have grown impatiens for years, though
without previous problem. Indeed, until this year, I haven't ground
planted them - they've been destined for wall planters, tubs etc.,
which are disinfected at the end of each season and then filled with
new compost before planting the next. This has been my first year of
ground planting, largely because I'd cleared a large perennial bed but
hadn't got round to replanting it so impatiens and other annuals were
used as fillers. Everything is grown from plug plants or seed.

One side of my property faces miles of open farmland (save for a strip
of disused railway embankment which is mainly Himalayan balsam
(another impatiens I've discovered but not affected by this problem!).
On the opposite side, a neighbour has some healthy impatiens growing
in hanging baskets (I gave her the plants and they're fine!). My
ground planting is on that side of my garden and is unaffected. Third
side is a trunk road with a sheltered housing complex on the other
side so no impatiens near that way. Neighbours opposite (and others
nearby) don't grow them.

The one type of T&M Impatiens (Accent mix) which I still think
introduced the problem, having been grown on from plugs in a different
greenhouse to other varieties, was then mixed in with them in wall
planters, baskets and tubs along the north side of the house.

I've only encountered the problem on that side of the house! All the
Accent Mixed succumbed fairly quickly and the other impatiens went the
same way soon after, the "disease" spreading outwards from the Accent
plants! But non-Accent plants growing elsewhere (see above) are
unaffected at the moment. Logic says to me, therefore, that the Accent
plants seem to be the culprits.

I put these thoughts to T&M, not complaining or asking for a refund
but trying to be helpful - giving them a chance to investigate. AFAIK,
the disease will not show that much, if at all, on small plug plants,
though they may carry it. Indeed, it is going to be very difficult to
check properly the little leaves on dense trays of 100+ little plants
without damaging them. I was not "blaming" T&M for my problem. Their
response was a curt denial of fault (they didn't even say anything
like "sorry you've been affected"). I quote:

"Thank you for your email.

"I have spoken with our resident Horticulturist who has advised that
there is not a fault with the product that is sent from our suppliers.
This is a widespread disease that effects plants once they have been
planted up.

"I have provided a fact sheet for you to view and I hope you will find
this helpful."

(The fact sheet is a redacted version of a former RHS web site
article. This has recently been revised and can be found at
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/....aspx?pid=205). The current
article version, like the former, suggests that the disease could be
carried in seeds. So whilst it may only show in more grown plants,
there is clearly no guarantee that it is not being carried by plug
plants!

So is it merely co-incidence that Pam and her friends have been
affected having also, via Pam, grown the Accent Mixed variety?

Cheers
Jake
==============================================
Gardening at the dry end (east) of Swansea Bay
in between reading anything by JRR Tolkien.

www.rivendell.org.uk

On 18/08/2011 14:21, Jake wrote:
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 10:19:54 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

pruned- you can read the text in earlier posts

Sorry this is long but trying to explain my reasoning:

(snip)

Thanks, Jake. Very interesting and pretty good proof where the problem
arose!

I think that T & M's comment "This is a widespread disease that effects
plants once they have been planted up" neatly sidesteps the issue. It
could be interpreted as "something else infected the plants after they
had been planted up", but it could equally mean that "it can't be seen
on the small plants we send out", even though they are already infected!

--

Jeff