On 29/08/2011 11:51, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 29/08/2011 02:04, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/08/2011 00:46, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 28/08/2011 23:24, Steve Walker wrote:
On 27/08/2011 17:20, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 27/08/2011 16:18, Interloper wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" mocked:

Why don't you try getting a life?

Most likely Dave has already got a life and he is trying to hang on
to it
and his health by avoiding passive smoking.

Could you name someone who as died from passive smoking? Anywhere in
the
world will do.

Roy Castle?

Alas not. Lung cancer yes. 10% of lung cancer deaths occur in non
smokers.

Most of the people I know who don't want anyone smoking near them are
not overly concerned about passive smoking, they just can't stand the
odour, the sore eyes, the sore throat and the smelly clothes they
end up
with from being around smokers.

An entirely reasonable view.

I have no wish to inflict the by products of smoking on others.

Equally, I can't see why non smokers should inflict their views on
smokers.

Because smokers are the ones carrying out an action and inflicting their
smoke on non-smokers, whereas non-smokers simply want them to stop doing
so. We don't care whether you smoke or not, we simply want you not to
inflict that smoke on us. If I kept squirting water around in a pub,
everyone near me would rightly want me to stop, they would however have
no objection to me watering my garden plants, as that wouldn't affect
them.

But a separate pub or bar isn't possible?

No, because the selfish smoker will insist on everyone in a group being
in the smoking bar.

More importantly, the staff are stuck in there too and as has been
mentioned elsewhere, an employer has to minimise or eliminate risks -
regardless of whether the employee is willing to take them.

SteveW

On 29/08/2011 12:17, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Gib wrote:
On 29/08/2011 10:23 p.m., Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
It's only natural for addicts to claim that they enjoy the habit and
that they are being persecuted. It's so much easier than admitting
they are too weak minded to give it up.

Sounds just like you with that glass of wine you so enjoy.


Do you think everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic?

It was in reply to the addicts part. And yes, many who claim to simply
just enjoy a glass of wine - and it's always wine - are addicted.

The difference is that smoking is highly addictive (any regular smoker
that stops will experience cravings/withdrawal symptoms); serves no
useful purpose and is afflicted on averyone around.

Drinking is far less addictive (those who succumb generally have
addictive personalities anyway and can become addicted to a whole range
of things - even exercise - the rest suffer no effects on doing
without); in small quantities it can have health benefits and certainly
does no harm; it's only afflicted on those around by those who
overindulge - which we do have laws against, but somehow fail to enforce.

SteveW

On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 08:37:27 +1000, Tony Bryer
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 23:24:40 +0100 Steve Walker wrote :
As a smoker you won't have the experience, but I frequently recoil from
the smell of tobacco smoke

It's extraordinary now to think that there was a time (before I took up
travelling) when people smoked on planes. A good while back I had a
number of British Rail archive films of the 1950s and smoking at your
desk seemed to be the norm.

You don't have to got that far back when even characters in
children's entertainment were depicted smoking. The Lady Penelope
Character in Thunderbirds was one example and this caused a bit of
controversy when the series became popular again about 10 years ago.

G.Harman

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/08/2011 12:17, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Gib wrote:
On 29/08/2011 10:23 p.m., Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
It's only natural for addicts to claim that they enjoy the habit and
that they are being persecuted. It's so much easier than admitting
they are too weak minded to give it up.

Sounds just like you with that glass of wine you so enjoy.


Do you think everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic?

It was in reply to the addicts part. And yes, many who claim to simply
just enjoy a glass of wine - and it's always wine - are addicted.

The difference is that smoking is highly addictive (any regular smoker
that stops will experience cravings/withdrawal symptoms); serves no
useful purpose

it has a sedative effect (which you need to drink lots of coffee as an
antidote) and acts as an appetite suppressant.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Fuschia wrote:
A non-sequitur much beloved of smokers.
"Help, I've lost the argument again! - ah yes, the alcohol dodge."

Plenty of similarities. Both are mind changing recreational drugs.
However, the detrimental effects of alcohol on behaviour (with many) make
it very different. And the havoc is causes to society in a totally
different league. But carry on thinking it's harmless. Just because you're
a user.

Anyone who needs to take 15 minutes per hour off work to get a drink has
a problem. So does someone who needs to spend the same amount of time
smoking.

I've no objection to someone who smokes like most people drink. Do you
know anyone who has one to three cigarettes in an evening and who has
abstinences between cigarettes of several days or even weeks?

On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 00:57:38 +0100, The Medway Handyman
wrote:

There is conclusive evidence to link active smoking with lung cancer.
Passive smoking is however a myth.

I believe that there is link, but I also believe that the increased risk
is probably low enough for me to ignore. I cannot however ignore the
awful smell, the affect on my eyes and my throat or the smell on my
clothes and my hair the next morning.

As a heavy smoker I can appreciate that.

Most of my working life was associated with public houses so stinking
of fags when I was a smoker was not really a problem at work as I
would have stunk the same from others.
Just wondering if it affects your jobs now that smoking is not the
Norm in most places and households.
I certainly know people who if they employed someone such as yourself
would if they detected the smell on you would not wish to you use your
services again or make negative recommendations such as , he did a
good job but stunk the place out. One mate wouldn't let you in the
first place if you smelt of smoke when you arrived.

G.Harman

In article , Steve Walker
wrote:
Do you think everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic?

It was in reply to the addicts part. And yes, many who claim to simply
just enjoy a glass of wine - and it's always wine - are addicted.

The difference is that smoking is highly addictive (any regular smoker
that stops will experience cravings/withdrawal symptoms); serves no
useful purpose and is afflicted on averyone around.

The same can be thought of alcohol if you co to many town centres of an
evening.

Drinking is far less addictive (those who succumb generally have
addictive personalities anyway and can become addicted to a whole range
of things - even exercise - the rest suffer no effects on doing
without);

Hmm. Interesting the way you bend addiction to rule out a drug you use and
turn it to others.

in small quantities it can have health benefits and certainly
does no harm;

You'll find plenty of 'authorities' who disagree with this statement:
likely just as many as on passive smoking.

it's only afflicted on those around by those who
overindulge - which we do have laws against, but somehow fail to enforce.

Indeed. The snag with the smoking laws is most reasonable people think
them unfair as well as not actually doing what was wanted.

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:31:35 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Fuschia wrote:
A non-sequitur much beloved of smokers.
"Help, I've lost the argument again! - ah yes, the alcohol dodge."

Plenty of similarities. Both are mind changing recreational drugs.
However, the detrimental effects of alcohol on behaviour (with many) make
it very different. And the havoc is causes to society in a totally
different league. But carry on thinking it's harmless. Just because you're
a user.

And where did I say alcohol is harmless? Alcohol certainly has great
dangers and has to be controlled.

What I said is that it's a non sequitur. Look it up if you need to.
Alcohol is not relevant to the discussion on passive smoking, and has
no bearing on whether passive smoking is unpleasant and/or dangerous.

By all means let's talk about alcohol in another thread, but that's
not what the OP was complaining about.

In article ,
Fuschia wrote:
By all means let's talk about alcohol in another thread, but that's
not what the OP was complaining about.

He wasn't 'complaining' at all. Just the usual troll.

--
*If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Aug 29, 12:21*am, The Medway Handyman
wrote:

No, we have a smoking ban because a fanatical group of anti smokers,
backed up by the lobbying of multi national drug companies, forced it
through.


Surely multinational drug companies would be in favour of smoking
because they could then sell anti-cancer drugs to the people who
became ill.

Which multinational drug companies are in favour of keeping people in
tip-top health and therefore without need of expensive
pharmaceuticals?

On 29/08/2011 14:40, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Gib Bogle wrote:
On 29/08/2011 10:23 p.m., Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
It's only natural for addicts to claim that they enjoy the habit and
that they are being persecuted. It's so much easier than admitting
they are too weak minded to give it up.

Sounds just like you with that glass of wine you so enjoy.


Do you think everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic?

It was in reply to the addicts part. And yes, many who claim to simply
just enjoy a glass of wine - and it's always wine - are addicted.

Nothing wrong with wine. I had a glass yesterday. I'll probably have
another glass next Sunday too.


You must be made of money.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 29/08/2011 11:18, Kathy wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 28/08/2011 19:35, 'Mike' wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 17:37:43 +0100,

wrote:





"The Medway wrote in message
...
On 27/08/2011 16:18, Interloper wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" mocked:

Why don't you try getting a life?

Most likely Dave has already got a life and he is trying to hang
on to
it
and his health by avoiding passive smoking.

Could you name someone who as died from passive smoking? Anywhere in
the
world will do.

Margaret Horsborough
25 Colchester Road
Leicester

My next door neighbour when I lived in Leicester in the 60's and 70's

A non smoker, died of Lung Cancer due to secondary/passive smoking
whilst
in
an office environment.


Was this the result of an autopsy - or just your guess.
Did it say on the death certificate : Lung Cancer caused by passive
smoking?

- or are you just guessing or suggesting that Lung Cancer is *only*
caused
by
inhaling cigarette smoke?

Oh dear :-((

Oh dear, oh dear.

Another smoker trying to justify their addiction to the obnoxious weed.

Another non smoker unable to support his biased opinion.

Why can't they just admit that they are wrong, pack up their vile
habit and
stop polluting the air WE breath and the pavements with their dog ends?

Why can't you appreciate that anally retentive, small minded people
like you will believe anything that supports your cause?

Many of your habits might well be vile to me.



On Monday March 7th, 2011, my eldest brother died, quite nastily, from
lung cancer caused by smoking. Smoking can cause lung cancer and lung
cancer can kill. Fact.

No one is disputing that. Which bit of 'passive' confused you?

Passive or active, tobacco smoke causes illness.
It is also, as you have acknowledged, polluting and frequently unpleasant.
No matter how many times you scream that it is your right to be a unpleasant
polluter, you do not have the right to pollute other people's airspace.

--
Kathy

On Aug 28, 12:40*am, Jon wrote:

For a more balanced view on the subject, the singer Joe Jackson decided
to look into REAL facts regarding smoking and wrote "Smoke Lies, and the
Nanny State"

It can be downloaded here as a doc or PDF file:

Jon

In what way are Joe Jackson's views on smoking any more "balanced"
than Gary Glitter's views on the age of consent?

On 29/08/2011 15:49, Kathy wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 29/08/2011 11:18, Kathy wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 28/08/2011 19:35, 'Mike' wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 17:37:43 +0100,

wrote:





"The Medway wrote in message
...
On 27/08/2011 16:18, Interloper wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" mocked:

Why don't you try getting a life?

Most likely Dave has already got a life and he is trying to hang
on to
it
and his health by avoiding passive smoking.

Could you name someone who as died from passive smoking?
Anywhere in
the
world will do.

Margaret Horsborough
25 Colchester Road
Leicester

My next door neighbour when I lived in Leicester in the 60's and
70's

A non smoker, died of Lung Cancer due to secondary/passive smoking
whilst
in
an office environment.


Was this the result of an autopsy - or just your guess.
Did it say on the death certificate : Lung Cancer caused by passive
smoking?

- or are you just guessing or suggesting that Lung Cancer is *only*
caused
by
inhaling cigarette smoke?

Oh dear :-((

Oh dear, oh dear.

Another smoker trying to justify their addiction to the obnoxious
weed.

Another non smoker unable to support his biased opinion.

Why can't they just admit that they are wrong, pack up their vile
habit and
stop polluting the air WE breath and the pavements with their dog
ends?

Why can't you appreciate that anally retentive, small minded people
like you will believe anything that supports your cause?

Many of your habits might well be vile to me.



On Monday March 7th, 2011, my eldest brother died, quite nastily, from
lung cancer caused by smoking. Smoking can cause lung cancer and lung
cancer can kill. Fact.

No one is disputing that. Which bit of 'passive' confused you?

Passive or active, tobacco smoke causes illness.

Afraid not - in the case of passive.

It is also, as you have acknowledged, polluting and frequently
unpleasant.

It may be unpleasant to some, but polluting?

No matter how many times you scream that it is your right to
be a unpleasant polluter, you do not have the right to pollute other
people's airspace.

I don't scream (do you?)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:

[Snip]

It may be unpleasant to some, but polluting?

you just need to look at the colour of the ceilings of rooms (particlarly
bars) to see the effect of tobacco smoke. Or - just exhale through a
hankie.

No matter how many times you scream that it is your right to
be a unpleasant polluter, you do not have the right to pollute other
people's airspace.

I don't scream (do you?)

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16