In article ,
Emery Davis wrote:
I'm looking for the hardiest possible weeping rosemary cultivar. To
drape down a low wall. We very occasionally see -15C. Any suggestions?

My experience is that quite a few can take that, if they are in
very well-drained conditions. But I agree that you want to avoid
the delicate ones.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I'm looking for the hardiest possible weeping rosemary cultivar. To
drape down a low wall. We very occasionally see -15C. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

-E

On 05/10/2011 19:14, Emery Davis wrote:
I'm looking for the hardiest possible weeping rosemary cultivar. To
drape down a low wall. We very occasionally see -15C. Any suggestions?

You could try emailing a few nurseries in the north of Scotland and ask
them if they have any ideas. For example: http://www.poyntzfieldherbs.co.uk/

They list several, but I can't see a hardy weeping variety there.

--

Jeff

On 05/10/2011 19:14, Emery Davis wrote:
I'm looking for the hardiest possible weeping rosemary cultivar. To
drape down a low wall. We very occasionally see -15C. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

-E


I grow Rosmarinus 'Severn Sea', which Jekka McVicar's site call "frost
hardy". However, it has survived in my garden for 4-5 years, despite
the heavy snowfall and frosts of the last two winters. It is on heavy
clay, but at the front of a retaining wall, perhaps similar to your
intended site. The wind often whips it and tosses it back on itself, so
it is fairly exposed. There was a tiny bit of damage last year, but the
plant is doing well. It has the most beautiful blue flowers

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 06/10/2011 15:14, Spider wrote:
On 05/10/2011 19:14, Emery Davis wrote:

I'm looking for the hardiest possible weeping rosemary cultivar. To
drape down a low wall. We very occasionally see -15C. Any suggestions?

I grow Rosmarinus 'Severn Sea', which Jekka McVicar's site call "frost
hardy". However, it has survived in my garden for 4-5 years, despite the
heavy snowfall and frosts of the last two winters. It is on heavy clay,
but at the front of a retaining wall, perhaps similar to your intended
site. The wind often whips it and tosses it back on itself, so it is
fairly exposed. There was a tiny bit of damage last year, but the plant
is doing well. It has the most beautiful blue flowers

In my experience it isn't winter hardiness that kills it so much as wet
feet and/or a nasty white fungal branch rot that starts from the top.

Dry continental style cold probably won't harm it but many days of cold
damp conditions lingering around freezing point will.

The gnarled remains of a several decade old rosemary that finally gave
up the ghost last year adorns my fern garden.

Unknown cultivar I have grows fine on heavy clay up against a roughly S
facing garage wall which gives it a bit of protection from the elements
up here in North Yorkshire. Mine has survived -18C.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On 10/06/2011 04:14 PM, Spider wrote:
On 05/10/2011 19:14, Emery Davis wrote:
I'm looking for the hardiest possible weeping rosemary cultivar. To
drape down a low wall. We very occasionally see -15C. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

-E


I grow Rosmarinus 'Severn Sea', which Jekka McVicar's site call "frost
hardy". However, it has survived in my garden for 4-5 years, despite
the heavy snowfall and frosts of the last two winters. It is on heavy
clay, but at the front of a retaining wall, perhaps similar to your
intended site. The wind often whips it and tosses it back on itself, so
it is fairly exposed. There was a tiny bit of damage last year, but the
plant is doing well. It has the most beautiful blue flowers


Thanks Spider, I'd forgotten about Jekka's site somehow. Browsing there
now.

I've been looking at Fillipi (www.jardin-sec.com) where they do have a
good selection, but I don't see any that goes below -12. Which is
already pretty good, I guess!

On 06/10/2011 19:16, Sacha wrote:
On 2011-10-06 15:14:40 +0100, Spider said:

On 05/10/2011 19:14, Emery Davis wrote:
I'm looking for the hardiest possible weeping rosemary cultivar. To
drape down a low wall. We very occasionally see -15C. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

-E


I grow Rosmarinus 'Severn Sea', which Jekka McVicar's site call "frost
hardy". However, it has survived in my garden for 4-5 years, despite
the heavy snowfall and frosts of the last two winters. It is on heavy
clay, but at the front of a retaining wall, perhaps similar to your
intended site. The wind often whips it and tosses it back on itself,
so it is fairly exposed. There was a tiny bit of damage last year, but
the plant is doing well. It has the most beautiful blue flowers

But we lose it here, due more to wet than cold, probably. I don't think
we'd ever call it hardy and -15C is an unattainable dream!


Then I shall count myself lucky that I can keep it, London clay and all.
Although it's at the bottom of a steepish bank, where you would expect
water to collect, the last 3 courses of the retaining wall are not
mortared, so drainage is good. Obviously, that's the key.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

"Sacha" wrote
PS - sort of. I should have said that Rosmarinus Marenca came through last
winter with us, hanging over a wall. But it did show signs of frost damage
and did recover. But we got to -7C one or two nights, nothing like -15C.
I can't think of a Rosemary that will do that but I'd love to know of it
when Emery finds it!


Is that the name of the Rosemary I photographed in SW France growing down
the Chateau walls?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobhobd...in/photostream
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

In article ,
David Rance wrote:

[ Old rosemary out of shape. ]

What can I do? Options:

1. Pull it out and start again with a new one?

I can't never keep them going for more than about 5 years, but they
aren't very long-lived even in poor soils, and most varieties tend
to get shapeless as time goes on.

2. Prune it back? But then it won't grow out again from the base, will
it?

Young rosemaries might - old ones won't.

3. Prune some of it back? This last is what I thought I would do but (a)
I've still got a straggly shrub, and (b) it might kill it off anyway.

Right.

I don't want to start all over again as I use quite a lot of it in
cooking. However I must do something as I can't reach the vine growing
on the wall above it. And, anyway, I'm ashamed of the sight of it!

Layer it, in a pot if you need to. When the layers have rooted well,
scrap the original plant and put the layers in the soil.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 Sacha wrote:

I grow Rosmarinus 'Severn Sea', which Jekka McVicar's site call
"frost
hardy". However, it has survived in my garden for 4-5 years, despite
the heavy snowfall and frosts of the last two winters. It is on heavy
clay, but at the front of a retaining wall, perhaps similar to your
intended site. The wind often whips it and tosses it back on itself,
so it is fairly exposed. There was a tiny bit of damage last year, but
the plant is doing well. It has the most beautiful blue flowers
But we lose it here, due more to wet than cold, probably. I don't
think
we'd ever call it hardy and -15C is an unattainable dream!
Then I shall count myself lucky that I can keep it, London clay
and all. Although it's at the bottom of a steepish bank, where you
would expect water to collect, the last 3 courses of the retaining
wall are not mortared, so drainage is good. Obviously, that's the key.
It must be, I would think. Theoretically, we're warmer here than in
your area but also much wetter, so I suspect that's the real killer,
or at least the initial one.

PS - sort of. I should have said that Rosmarinus Marenca came through
last winter with us, hanging over a wall. But it did show signs of
frost damage and did recover. But we got to -7C one or two nights,
nothing like -15C. I can't think of a Rosemary that will do that but
I'd love to know of it when Emery finds it!

I think that Bob's photo of the rosemary in France is lovely - wish I'd
got one. I have some lowish walls in Normandy and this year we planted
some Mexican Fleabane which is doing very well. Didn't know about the
Fleabane until we saw some outside Llandaff Cathedral last year. Now
we're seeing it everywhere, especially in France along the banks of the
Sarthe at Sablé.

But I need some help here in Reading with a Rosemary which is a
bog-standard one. It must be at least twenty years old and I've let it
get out of hand by not pruning it and now look at it:

http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk/photos/Rosemary.jpg

It was a reasonable shape (although too big for the situation) until
last winter when the snow weighed it down. I thought the snow would kill
it off but, no, not a bit of it. It is still growing strongly but did
not recover its shape, hence the mess you see in the photo.

What can I do? Options:

1. Pull it out and start again with a new one?

2. Prune it back? But then it won't grow out again from the base, will
it?

3. Prune some of it back? This last is what I thought I would do but (a)
I've still got a straggly shrub, and (b) it might kill it off anyway.

I don't want to start all over again as I use quite a lot of it in
cooking. However I must do something as I can't reach the vine growing
on the wall above it. And, anyway, I'm ashamed of the sight of it!

Any suggestions will be most welcome.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

I can't never keep them going for more than about 5 years, but they
aren't very long-lived even in poor soils, and most varieties tend
to get shapeless as time goes on.

That is surprising. I would have expected them to thrive on Cambridge's
relatively sandy soils rather than our heavy North Yorkshire clay. Mine
is in a bit of a rain shadow from the garage but it has been going for
20 years or so without any trouble and minimal intervention.

I have a couple of undiagnosed fungal root-roots in my soil, and
it's one of them - due to the oddball winter, it wiped out ALL of
my thymes this spring, but didn't touch the marjorams, rosemary,
winter savory and hyssop in the same locations. Well, I say "it",
but diagnosis on the basis of root appearance and which plants it
affects most.

The rain shadow would help, a lot. It is surprising how many plants
like it, but the books never say so.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 07/10/2011 09:41, wrote:
In ,
David wrote:

[ Old rosemary out of shape. ]

What can I do? Options:

1. Pull it out and start again with a new one?

I can't never keep them going for more than about 5 years, but they
aren't very long-lived even in poor soils, and most varieties tend
to get shapeless as time goes on.

That is surprising. I would have expected them to thrive on Cambridge's
relatively sandy soils rather than our heavy North Yorkshire clay. Mine
is in a bit of a rain shadow from the garage but it has been going for
20 years or so without any trouble and minimal intervention.

It has to fight the variagated sage underneath for space to grow!
Perhaps this conveys some unexpected additional protection to it?

If they are going to die they seem to get a white fungal rot that goes
for the leaf nodes or a root rot from wet feet.

2. Prune it back? But then it won't grow out again from the base, will
it?

Young rosemaries might - old ones won't.

The oldest one we had developed a rather pleasing gnarled appearance on
the main stem which was about 7cm diameter at the base when it finally
expired. It succumbed to the white fungal infection from the top.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On 10/06/2011 04:24 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 06/10/2011 15:14, Spider wrote:
On 05/10/2011 19:14, Emery Davis wrote:

I'm looking for the hardiest possible weeping rosemary cultivar. To
drape down a low wall. We very occasionally see -15C. Any suggestions?

I grow Rosmarinus 'Severn Sea', which Jekka McVicar's site call "frost
hardy". However, it has survived in my garden for 4-5 years, despite the
heavy snowfall and frosts of the last two winters. It is on heavy clay,
but at the front of a retaining wall, perhaps similar to your intended
site. The wind often whips it and tosses it back on itself, so it is
fairly exposed. There was a tiny bit of damage last year, but the plant
is doing well. It has the most beautiful blue flowers

In my experience it isn't winter hardiness that kills it so much as wet
feet and/or a nasty white fungal branch rot that starts from the top.


For sure it doesn't like wet. Even in the dryest spots here I can
usually only keep a plant for 5 or so years before it dies off. The
usually do fine until then and then die quite suddenly. We don't get
white fungus, just die back over big sections.

The wall where it's going is however exceptionally well drained even in
winter. It's got bulbs in spring which do OK if there's rain, but
beyond that I've managed only sedums, sages, thymes and a couple of
pinks. So rosemary seems an obvious choice.

Dry continental style cold probably won't harm it but many days of cold
damp conditions lingering around freezing point will.


Conditions here are actually not dissimilar to parts of Devon but a
couple of degrees colder. -15C is very extreme, in any case we haven't
seen that for any sustained period. (I guess I've seen it a couple of
times over 20 years). It's my "absolutely safe" limit, really; I used
it because Fillipi mentions several rosemaries good to -15C but all upright.

We grow many zone 8 and even a few zone 9 plants, although the winters
before this last one were very hard on the garden and I did lose quite a
few established ones.

-E

On 10/07/2011 10:43 AM, David Rance wrote:
I think that Bob's photo of the rosemary in France is lovely - wish I'd
got one. I have some lowish walls in Normandy and this year we planted
some Mexican Fleabane which is doing very well. Didn't know about the
Fleabane until we saw some outside Llandaff Cathedral last year. Now
we're seeing it everywhere, especially in France along the banks of the
Sarthe at Sablé.


Cracking idea, I will try some of that too. Thanks.

On 10/06/2011 08:16 PM, Sacha wrote:
On 2011-10-06 15:14:40 +0100, Spider said:

On 05/10/2011 19:14, Emery Davis wrote:
I'm looking for the hardiest possible weeping rosemary cultivar. To
drape down a low wall. We very occasionally see -15C. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

-E


I grow Rosmarinus 'Severn Sea', which Jekka McVicar's site call "frost
hardy". However, it has survived in my garden for 4-5 years, despite
the heavy snowfall and frosts of the last two winters. It is on heavy
clay, but at the front of a retaining wall, perhaps similar to your
intended site. The wind often whips it and tosses it back on itself,
so it is fairly exposed. There was a tiny bit of damage last year, but
the plant is doing well. It has the most beautiful blue flowers

But we lose it here, due more to wet than cold, probably. I don't think
we'd ever call it hardy and -15C is an unattainable dream!

Well as I say -15C is an outer limit. As you know our conditions aren't
that different: lots of wet, not too cold. But every once in a while we
get a few weeks of that nasty east wind, that clears out the sea air and
brings in the continental cold. It wreaks havoc with the more tender
plants. The wall where the rosemary is to go is very exposed, so the
hardier I can get, the better!